From the same article:
Jesus Christ. Even the supposedly rational Tories can't bear to look past their partisan anti-Corbyn bullshit to focus on the single biggest issue for this country in a generation.
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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows
- Thread starter theaface
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From the same article:
Jesus Christ. Even the supposedly rational Tories can't bear to look past their partisan anti-Corbyn bullshit to focus on the single biggest issue for this country in a generation.
Roberto Larcos
Member
It feels like the screws are finally beginning to turn in a serious way. We need more protests.
Mt Heart Attack
Member
The EU or the UK?
Seems reasonable for the EU and the UK won't have much of a choice on the matter.
Chittagong
Gold Member
They are?
Roberto Larcos
Member
Public opinion beginning to shift in a more decisive way (YouGov), more MPs speaking out against a 'no deal' Brexit, the EU hardening it's stance in response to British buffoonery, even Corbyn saying he'd vote for remain again given the chance.
I don't buy that either, what's the point. I would certainly take it but that deal is so stupid instead of just cancelling Brexit which is the only sensible option. If the government does that just to say they've done Brexit what an absolute embarrassment. Collaboration is what we should be doing, even if the UK sticks it's oar in when it shouldn't.
That deal is basically that nonsense taking back control leavers foamed actually being somewhat true!
Mt Heart Attack
Member
That'd be for the transition period only, not as a long term deal.
It's clear that no amount of economic self-harm will help reverse Brexit now, I think the only two options are 1. a party winning a general election on a remain platform (not gonna happen with Corbyn in all likelihood, and there's no general election in sight), or 2. a referendum on a final deal which clearly offers the choice of stopping Brexit altogether (no idea if that's even possible?)
Dirtyshubb
Member
Add in the focus and legal challenge on the government's hidden reports on how brexit will affect 50 different sectors and I think we have all the ingredients for turning public opinion against brexit.
Of course it's still a small chance but all the pieces are being put in place.
Norway: [laughs]
I wish it wasn't true but I don't think May will stop article 50 or go for the 'Norway option'. It'll be such an embarrassing scenario for her, and the relationship with the EU would be permanently damaged in the eyes of the average British voter after two years of very obvious in-fighting. Her partisan press would also DESTROY her.
I think given those options (crash out, stay or Norway option) she will choose to crash out to save face with her voters. That's why it's crucial for her to get a deal.
I think you'll see her capitulate in things like EU citizen rights and the divorce bill in the next few weeks and negotiations will come unstuck.
I think given those options (crash out, stay or Norway option) she will choose to crash out to save face with her voters. That's why it's crucial for her to get a deal.
I think you'll see her capitulate in things like EU citizen rights and the divorce bill in the next few weeks and negotiations will come unstuck.
Tbh that's about what I'd expected from a transition deal, i.e "we've got a deal, let's keep the status quo for a while so other parties can adjust".
Cornyn is one of the biggest Brexiters in UK politics. Anything tabled by him would almost certainly have some kind of proviso in it that anything was temporary only and require some guarantee of an eventual 'full' Brexit. Corbyn is against single market access as well, he's only had Labour support of it forced upon him.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Well the "I haven't changed my mind" part is a lie, if not the whole thing. He's spent 3 decades wanting to leave the EU.
Little Old Man
Member
There's far too many Brexiteers still around. Maybe in 10 to 20 years time when those who grew up in the dying days of Empire (and are for some reason wanting to return to those times) are all cold in the ground, there might be enough of a shift.
Add to that "well we've voted for it, should be should carry on with it" AKA heathledgerallpartoftheplan.gif part of the population.
Or "stop talking our country down!" people.
Or the classic delusionalists who believe we will have a better 'deal' than the one we had.
And generally to many poorly educated individuals who blamed the EU for just about anything that had gone wrong in recent decades, and believed the ridiculous Express/Mail scare stories at face value.
perhaps it's just cynicism, but I've got no faith in this country as a collective group of people any more.
Yep and the 3 line whip on invoking article 50.
This is complete bollocks and you know it.
In a world including Brexiteers like Farage, Cummings, Hannan, Gove, Fox, Carswell, Leadsom, Lawson and Raab (off the top of my head) Corbyn doesn't even rank.
Especially since Corbyn voted remain and has repeatedly said he would still vote remain.
JonnyDBrit
Member
There's far too many Brexiteers still around. Maybe in 10 to 20 years time when those who grew up in the dying days of Empire (and are for some reason wanting to return to those times) are all cold in the ground, there might be enough of a shift.
Add to that "well we've voted for it, should be should carry on with it" AKA heathledgerallpartoftheplan.gif part of the population.
Or "stop talking our country down!" people.
Or the classic delusionalists who believe we will have a better 'deal' than the one we had.
And generally to many poorly educated individuals who blamed the EU for just about anything that had gone wrong in recent decades, and believed the ridiculous Express/Mail scare stories at face value.
perhaps it's just cynicism, but I've got no faith in this country as a collective group of people any more.
Given the chart on the previous page, I can't help but feel that this broad period (ie, 2010s, maybe a bit of the 2020s) was the last real shot the anti-EU movement might have had to actually find some way to withdraw. The country was and is split down the middle on the matter in a way that margin of error could still win it for them. Had it been left any longer, I'm really not sure that would be the case.
Edit: Of course the frustrating thing is that with their success on the referendum, enough people might grow used to being outside the EU that if we get another referendum in say, 20 years, the Leave/Outside vote will be shored up by a new generation.
Snarfington
Member
Public opinion is seemingly set by outlets like the Daily Mail.
They're not changing their mind. People have been duped into having their opinions defined by outlets whose political views revolve around serving the rich.
Dirtyshubb
Member
While all that is true, I do feel the change is coming and with something as Mammoth and potential permanent as brexit the idea of just going ahead with it while every sign is pointing to a disaster makes it something of an outlier.
There's far too many Brexiteers still around. Maybe in 10 to 20 years time when those who grew up in the dying days of Empire (and are for some reason wanting to return to those times) are all cold in the ground, there might be enough of a shift.
Add to that "well we've voted for it, should be should carry on with it" AKA heathledgerallpartoftheplan.gif part of the population.
Or "stop talking our country down!" people.
Or the classic delusionalists who believe we will have a better 'deal' than the one we had.
And generally to many poorly educated individuals who blamed the EU for just about anything that had gone wrong in recent decades, and believed the ridiculous Express/Mail scare stories at face value.
perhaps it's just cynicism, but I've got no faith in this country as a collective group of people any more.
Of course all of the right wing press and brexiters will still say everything is fine but when you already have tory MPs siding with Labour against a no deal scenario it changes things.
Will there be enough time to reverse it? As it stands probably not but we still have enough time for a clearer picture of what post brexit will be for the average person and so far it looks like it could get even worse so it could speed things up a bit.
I'm the most cynical person around but I have a slither of hope with how things COULD go given things so far.
Most of them weren't on live TV the morning after the referendum demanding that Article 50 be invoked immediately with no consultation or study as to the consequences.
I'd honestly doubt that Corbyn voted Remain as well, or at the very least that he did so because he genuinely believed in remaining in the EU. There's 30 odd years of evidence to the contrary prior to the referendum and multiple points of him trying to force Brexit through after the referendum.
Hasn't YouGov dones polls and worked out that by just demographic changes that in a couple years Remain would've won?
I agree and think anti-EU sentiment will decline once Europe's economy recovers more, Brexits fallout becomes apparent and the European migration crisis finally comes to a close.
I don't think you need to worry about people getting used to being outside the EU, with the recession that will come about because of Brexit, I expect the younger generations to be just as pro-Remain as they are now.
killer_clank
Member
I dont really buy the oh itll be so bad well be back in the EU in 20 years argument. The only way we can stay in or close to being single market members (and this is what I hope happens) is if through various transition deals and so on eventually just become de fact permanent which I dont entirely rule out at this moment in time.
If the break is made then I really dont see any way wed go back in, the EU will push to be closer integrated and the UK will diverge and slowly (much much slower than brexiter a will have you believe) build up a new trade policy such that going back in again would be as complicated as leaving in the first place. But you never know.
If the break is made then I really dont see any way wed go back in, the EU will push to be closer integrated and the UK will diverge and slowly (much much slower than brexiter a will have you believe) build up a new trade policy such that going back in again would be as complicated as leaving in the first place. But you never know.
Corbyn was trying to put pressure on Cameron
Yes. To trigger Article 50 immediately. Hence his insistance that Cameron should trigger Article 50 immediately.
Commander Jameson
Member
Did he actually say "immediately" or did he say "now"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_dstsWkEFc
The first thing he says, "Article 50 has to be invoked now"
This was at 7:30am the day after the referendum, literally within hours of the final result being known.
Corbyn later denied that was what he said, seeming to forget that he was being interviewed on Live Television with millions of people watching and that it would be recorded.
Or are you trying to argue that when he said "Now", he didn't mean "Now" but "later"? Because if that's what he meant, he shouldn't have used the word "Now" which means...well...Now.
The full quote is "Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from the European Union"
The only way to interpret that is that he means "Invoke Article 50 immediately, then we can start looking at negotiations". If that's not what he meant then he's a fucking idiot who has no place as the leader of a political party.
Roberto Larcos
Member
65/35 or 70/30 would be a veritable landslide.
Commander Jameson
Member
"Article 50 has to be invoked now, so we [can] negotiate an exit from the EU".
See, I saw that interview on that morning and it didn't come across to me as him meaning "immediately".
I agree that "now" is a confusing word to use as it can mean (and has been taken to mean) immediately.
See, I saw that interview on that morning and it didn't come across to me as him meaning "immediately".
I agree that "now" is a confusing word to use as it can mean (and has been taken to mean) immediately.
What else can it mean?
Commander Jameson
Member
What you added to your post; now, but later.
I honestly don't believe Corbyn voted remain. The EU doesn't suit his agenda and he has enough history to show how he feels about it and looking at Labour now they are trying to fool voters into thinking they are for remain but are really with the tories and fence sitting at best. I'm surprised people haven't noticed, maybe the hate is strong anything but Tory is worth voting for but it still puts us in the shitter.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Im inclined to believe that opinions have crystalised since the vote, and that theres now a much smaller number of people who are sway-able.
I think if you ended Brexit tomorrow, the majority of people in the UK would be grateful. People are just fed up with voting, Brexit, nobody being constructive, local issues being ignored but that would take a competent government that doesn't blame others for it's problems. The leavers would piss and moan for a bit but then it's Christmas and the World Cup next summer. Someone just needs to end this farse and get down to fixing the UK properly instead of the Brexit distraction for the next 10-20 years that will likely make matters worse.
I don't disagree with you, but that's why I believe hardship and personal inconvenience will be necessary.
mehrmantrout
Member
Lol, it'll all die at the farm, as every fucker who picked it before will have been deported
I don't think we can sink any further with the negotiations/counterpoints that are coming out
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I think the stubbornness is too strong, unfortunately.
PJV3
Member
It's all a bit vague but now can just mean the next step of something, I think Corbyn was like the Tories expecting work to have been done by the government already, Cameron was being honest for a change.
I love his nonsense of buying more from the rest of the world, you're just exchanging one for another that will cost more, what's the point and we do source lots in the UK but you know, seasons and capacity. Will middle England give up their countryside living for more crops, I don't think so.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
What an idiot to even suggest that, the article even address how dumb this idea is
To say "Just work harder," shows how idiotic some people can be.
"Oh man, the economy is going to go to shit if we leave with out a deal."
"It'll be fine, you just have to work harder."
As if working harder will magically make everything fine.
No wonder some developing countries have a struggling economy, they just haven't been working hard enough.
/s
So basically he meant the exact opposite of what he actually said.
Well, kind of goes with everything else Corbyn said during the referendum I suppose. He said he supported Remain when he actually supported Leave, etc.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Young Labour vote to end freedom of movement:
George Aylett said:
Toby Peacock said:
Momentum Youth and Students London said:
Who are these clowns?
But it will be good for us pampered millennials. Nothing like a 10+ year recession and food poverty to build character!
I feel like we say that every week only for the Brexiters to consistently discover all new depths of stupidity, bigotry and ignorance.
anonymous_abc
Member
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