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Britain pulls out spies as Russia, China crack Snowden files: report

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Dat civil liberties hero...

6vcbopU.jpg


Britain has pulled out agents from live operations in "hostile countries" after Russia and China cracked top-secret information contained in files leaked by former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, the Sunday Times reported.

Security service MI6, which operates overseas and is tasked with defending British interests, has removed agents from certain countries, the newspaper said, citing unnamed officials at the office of British Prime Minister David Cameron, the Home Office (interior ministry) and security services.

Snowden downloaded more than 1.7 million secret files from security agencies in the United States and Britain in 2013, and leaked details about mass surveillance of phone and internet communications.

The United States wants Snowden to stand trial after he leaked classified documents, fled the country and was eventually granted asylum in Moscow in 2013.

He went to Russia via Hong Kong, and although he claimed in 2013 that the encrypted files remained secure, Britain believed both Russia and China had cracked documents which contain details that could allow British and American spies to be identified, the newspaper said, citing officials.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said Snowden had done a huge amount of damage to the West's ability to protect its citizens.

"As to the specific allegations this morning, we never comment on operational intelligence matters so I'm not going to talk about what we have or haven't done in order to mitigate the effect of the Snowden revelations, but nobody should be in any doubt that Edward Snowden has caused immense damage," he told Sky News.

An official at Cameron's office was quoted, however, as saying that there was "no evidence of anyone being harmed." A spokeswoman at Cameron's office declined to comment when contacted by Reuters.

A Home Office source told the newspaper that Russian President Vladimir Putin did not grant Snowden asylum for nothing.

"His documents were encrypted but they weren't completely secure and we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted," the source said.

A British intelligence source said Snowden had done "incalculable damage".

"In some cases the agencies have been forced to intervene and lift their agents from operations to stop them being identified and killed," the source was quoted as saying.

British security agencies declined to comment.

The Russian and Chinese governments were not immediately available for comment.

TIMING

The revelations about the impact of Snowden on intelligence operations comes days after Britain's terrorism law watchdog said the rules governing the security services' abilities to spy on the public needed to be overhauled.

Conservative lawmaker and former minister Andrew Mitchell said the timing of the report was "no accident".

"There is a big debate going on," he told BBC radio. "We are going to have legislation bought back to parliament (...) about the way in which individual liberty and privacy is invaded in the interest of collective national security.

"That's a debate we certainly need to have."

Cameron has promised a swathe of new security measures, including more powers to monitor Briton's communications and online activity in what critics have dubbed a "snoopers' charter".

Britain's terrorism laws reviewer David Anderson said on Thursday the current system was "undemocratic, unnecessary and - in the long run - intolerable".

He called for new safeguards, including judges not ministers approving warrants for intrusive surveillance, and said there needed to be a compelling case for any extensions of powers.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/14/us-britain-security-idUSKBN0OT0XF20150614

Original report behind a paywall:

RUSSIA and China have cracked the top-secret cache of files stolen by the fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden, forcing MI6 to pull agents out of live operations in hostile countries, according to senior officials in Downing Street, the Home Office and the security services.

Western intelligence agencies say they have been forced into the rescue operations after Moscow gained access to more than 1m classified files held by the former American security contractor, who fled to seek protection from Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, after mounting one of the largest leaks in US history.

Senior government sources confirmed that China had also cracked the encrypted documents, which contain details of secret intelligence techniques and information that could allow British and American spies to be identified.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1568673.ece

/I have bolded the passage which talks about the timing of this in the UK political context.
 

DTKT

Member
I love how there is zero evidence of anything happening. It seems really easy for anyone how wants to undermine Snowden action to claim some kind of bullshit security threat to get everyone alarmed. It seems like the perfect target. He has zero way to defend himself.
 
That interview he had with John Oliver was so awkward when Oliver bought out these points. That there is info in these documents that might put in jeopardy the lives of many people.

He saw a bunch of stuff he thought should be exposed but he didn't bother to read all of it and might've made a mistake.

Too late now. Hope its not too bad.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I love how there is zero evidence of anything happening. It seems really easy for anyone how wants to undermine Snowden action to claim some kind of bullshit security threat to get everyone alarmed. It seems like the perfect target. He has zero way to defend himself.


While I am glad Snowden did what he did, he's also done tremendous harm to our intelligence infrastructure that will have many negative effects. It's not all good by any stretch of the imagination
 

Slayven

Member
I love how there is zero evidence of anything happening. It seems really easy for anyone how wants to undermine Snowden action to claim some kind of bullshit security threat to get everyone alarmed. It seems like the perfect target. He has zero way to defend himself.

The fact he is in bed with the Russian government undermines him more than anything else.
 
I love how there is zero evidence of anything happening. It seems really easy for anyone how wants to undermine Snowden action to claim some kind of bullshit security threat to get everyone alarmed. It seems like the perfect target. He has zero way to defend himself.
He could have stood trial and try to invoke a societal change (this is what heroes like, say, Rosa Parks, do), instead he flew right into Putin's ass.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
The most important part is buried

The revelations about the impact of Snowden on intelligence operations comes days after Britain's terrorism law watchdog said the rules governing the security services' abilities to spy on the public needed to be overhauled.

Conservative lawmaker and former minister Andrew Mitchell said the timing of the report was "no accident".

of course they need new powers because reasons
 

Chariot

Member
The fact he is in bed with the Russian government undermines him more than anything else.
It's not like the US government gave him a chance. He was forced to stay in Russa or getting executed and maybe worse in the US. He probably knows better then we all what awaits beind the closed doors of US intelligence.
 

LQX

Member
Our hero...

While I am glad Snowden did what he did, he's also done tremendous harm to our intelligence infrastructure that will have many negative effects. It's not all good by any stretch of the imagination

How are you glad, then go on to admit what he did has done tremendous harm?
 

samn

Member
Truly dreadful reporting, and disappointed to see the BBC also ran the story.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...iles-journalism-worst-also-filled-falsehoods/

The whole article does literally nothing other than quote anonymous British officials. It gives voice to banal but inflammatory accusations that are made about every whistleblower from Daniel Ellsberg to Chelsea Manning. It offers zero evidence or confirmation for any of its claims. The “journalists” who wrote it neither questioned any of the official assertions nor even quoted anyone who denies them. It’s pure stenography of the worst kind: some government officials whispered these inflammatory claims in our ears and told us to print them, but not reveal who they are, and we’re obeying. Breaking!

...

The government accusers behind this story have a big obstacle to overcome: namely, Snowden has said unequivocally that when he left Hong Kong, he took no files with him, having given them to the journalists with whom he worked, and then destroying his copy precisely so that it wouldn’t be vulnerable as he traveled. How, then, could Russia have obtained Snowden’s files as the story claims – “his documents were encrypted but they weren’t completely secure ” – if he did not even have physical possession of them?

The other point is that I'm sure Snowden is capable of using basic encryption which currently would take billions of years for any spy agency to crack.

The fact he is in bed with the Russian government undermines him more than anything else.

He didn't want to end up in Russia. He was travelling through and then unable to reach his destination in Cuba. It is impossible for him to have shared any information with Russia (see above).
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
Our hero...



How are you glad, then go on to admit what he did has done tremendous harm?

Perhaps actions and consequences are not black and white? Maybe the bad is outweighed by the good?

EDIT ^what he said hah
 

massoluk

Banned
The way Snowden handled it was rather irreparable and irresponsible. He didn't comb through the data first and selected things that mattered, he just dumped the entire thing.
 
- How does the British government know that Russia and China have this information? Especially when those governments would invest a lot of effort to make sure that the UK will not know.

- Why does the British government make this public? If the British know that they know, they could use this to their advantage.

- Where did they get those files from?

- Why did they wait until now with their reaction?

- The article claims they have "cracked the encryption". That's not possible. You can't just crack modern encryption.


This is just bullshit propaganda by the British government.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Reminds me of that blackadder scene in season 4 where Blackadder is questionning the plans for war which involve walking very slowly from one trench to another while being shot at, the general responds "Exactly, doing what we have done 37 times before is exactly the last thing they would expect us to do this time"

Tremendous bluff from the Uk, we should deploy double the spies.
 

DTKT

Member
I don't have any faith that any kind of "standard" judicial procedures would have done anything. I mean, there are secret courts with secret judges deciding on who can be spied upon by the NSA.

We are way past any kind of due process.
 

werks

Banned
Truly dreadful reporting, and disappointed to see the BBC also ran the story.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...iles-journalism-worst-also-filled-falsehoods/



The other point is that I'm sure Snowden is capable of using basic encryption which currently would take billions of years for any spy agency to crack.



He didn't want to end up in Russia. He was travelling through and then unable to reach his destination in Cuba.
LOL, they don't need to crack his encryption when they have him in person. You think the russians are going to bother cracking encryption when they can just crack snowden?

Also Snowden stole more DOD military information then he stole NSA information and handed them to our greatest enemies. Even if he is completely forgiven for the NSA stuff, he still committed treason for stealing classified military information and giving them to russia.
 

Dopus

Banned
LOL, they don't need to crack his encryption when they have him in person. You think the russians are going to bother cracking encryption when they can just crack snowden?

Also Snowden stole more DOD military information then he stole NSA information and handed them to our greatest enemies. Even if he is completely forgiven for the NSA stuff, he still committed treason for stealing classified military information and giving them to russia.

How are they going to 'crack' Snowden exactly? He doesn't have access to the files, nor does he have the encryption keys in Russia. Do you even know what you're talking about?
 

Chariot

Member
LOL, they don't need to crack his encryption when they have him in person. You think the russians are going to bother cracking encryption when they can just crack snowden?

Also Snowden stole more DOD military information then he stole NSA information and handed them to our greatest enemies. Even if he is completely forgiven for the NSA stuff, he still committed treason for stealing classified military information and giving them to russia.
This could've been easily avoided by allowing him to get out of Russia without death sentence. Getting him into Germany or some other allied country in Europe and leaving him there would've been better than throwing an angry tantrum and force him to the russians.
 

raphier

Banned
As someone who is into cryptography, I find this hard to believe. Firstly there are no reports of pullback as you often get to hear even before such news is published. Secondly, how they know not only Russia, but also China has cracked the code? This is big news if true and not something these countries would talk about publicly, otherwise did UK just confirm that there is a mole in those particular divisions?

And lastly, snowden is not some layman when it comes to cryptography, especially when he knows how such agencies work. We are talking about state of the art encryption that if cracked would compromise entire industries (if the files used aes-256) this would be massive news in cryptography circles, which is why it is hard to believe that any country involved managed to hack unless they managed to steal the parent key, which then has nothing to do with Snowden.
 
He went to Russia via Hong Kong, and although he claimed in 2013 that the encrypted files remained secure, Britain believed both Russia and China had cracked documents which contain details that could allow British and American spies to be identified, the newspaper said, citing officials.

Thats the core of the story, but according to Snowden and Greenwald neither Russia nor China got anything from Snowden, they also claim that Snowden didn't have any data with him while beeing in China/Russia.


Edit: The Sunday Times also blantantly lied about this, later removed their lie without comment.
CHeReSJWEAInBf1.png
 

Dopus

Banned
This could've been easily avoided by allowing him to get out of Russia without death sentence. Getting him into Germany or some other allied country in Europe and leaving him there would've been better than throwing an angry tantrum and force him to the russians.

Nothing has happened. This is nonsense.
 
It's not like the US government gave him a chance. He was forced to stay in Russa or getting executed and maybe worse in the US. He probably knows better then we all what awaits beind the closed doors of US intelligence.

Hahaha you actually think he was going to get executed or "worse" whatever that means. Robert Hanssen who actually spied for the Soviets and Russians for 22 years in the FBI and legitimately got many agents compromised didn't even get the death penalty.
 

Chariot

Member
Nothing has happened. This is nonsense.
Even better. I can only shake my head about people trying to shit on Snowden.
Hahaha you actually think he was going to get executed or "worse" whatever that means. Robert Hanssen who actually spied for the Soviets and Russians for 22 years in the FBI and legitimately got many agents compromised didn't even get the death penalty.
Yes. I actually think that he was in danger if he was to return to the US. The United States are not know to be saints.
 

Acorn

Member
LOL, they don't need to crack his encryption when they have him in person. You think the russians are going to bother cracking encryption when they can just crack snowden?

Also Snowden stole more DOD military information then he stole NSA information and handed them to our greatest enemies. Even if he is completely forgiven for the NSA stuff, he still committed treason for stealing classified military information and giving them to russia.
He didn't take shit with him to Russia.
 

Cipherr

Member
Life is imperfect like that. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear that with all the stuff that came out of those leaks that helped us understand how we were being eavesdropped on; that there's also some stuff in there that could endanger some folks.
 
He could have stood trial and try to invoke a societal change (this is what heroes like, say, Rosa Parks, do), instead he flew right into Putin's ass.

hahah, you actually believe that.

hahahahaha.

People wanted him in America so he could suffer. Dude is an american hero, more than any of us will ever be.

Also, amazing how many of you aren't reading the article and noticing how pure bs it is. There is no proof anywhere in the article, its a character assassination piece pure and simple.
 

LQX

Member
Perhaps actions and consequences are not black and white? Maybe the bad is outweighed by the good?

EDIT ^what he said hah

But how has the good proven to outweigh the bad? Do you now feel safer because of what Snowden did? I just don't get what is to be glad or happy about when it was mainly one countries secrets spilling out for every other county to see.

Moreover, I do not understand how many of you can applaud him for doing this then look past how damn hypocritical it is for him to then take up with a country like Russia after doing something like this.
 
This is a pretty transparent attempt by the British government to squash legitimate complaints about the changes to their surveillance laws. I don't even know what to think about the people that believe this report.

A British intelligence source said Snowden had "Leaked the arming codes for the U.S. nuclear arsenal as well, and that foreign governments may now be able to trigger the apocalypse at will now".

There I put it into a quote box and said an unnamed government official said it. Sooo scary.
 
But how has the good proven to outweigh the bad? Do you now feel safer because of what Snowden did? I just don't get what is to be glad or happy about when it was mainly one countries secrets spilling out for every other county to see.

Moreover, I do not understand how many of you can applaud him for doing this then look past how damn hypocritical it is for him to then take up with a country like Russia after doing something like this.


Unfortunately the overall quality of Americans has fallen since Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers. Where his revelations awoke a national discussion on a subject, Snowden faces guaranteed arrest and a pretty much guaranteed guilty verdict then a trip to ADX Floence where he will never be heard from again. And todays modern hyper patriotic American would be just fine with that.
 

samn

Member
LOL, they don't need to crack his encryption when they have him in person. You think the russians are going to bother cracking encryption when they can just crack snowden?

These top intell insiders specifically claim that they cracked the encryption.

Also, nice job not even bothering to read my post.
 
Even better. I can only shake my head about people trying to shit on Snowden.Yes. I actually think that he was in danger if he was to return to the US. The United States are not know to be saints.

lol are you even American because all I can do is laugh at these statements of the US executing him since anyone familiar with the actual country's history would think this is a joke post.

The US has not even sentenced a person to death for treason or espionage (a requirement for that sentence) since 1952 and even that person was pardoned and deported.

The US hasn't even executed someone for espionage since 1953 for passing on Manhattan project nuclear secrets to the soviets.

Show some proof where it has been intimated he would be executed or break over 6 decades of policy otherwise get out of here with that nonsense.
 

slit

Member
The fact he is in bed with the Russian government undermines him more than anything else.

Yes, because he had a plethora of choices on where to go.

You don't mess with a superpower and then point on a globe where to avoid their reach.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Our hero...



How are you glad, then go on to admit what he did has done tremendous harm?

Because some of the things he revealed were harmful to our liberty and constitution and I think the broad phone tapping for example, was an affront to democracy. I have very mixed feelings about what he revealed but I have zero doubt he is an irresponsible traitor who probably didn't have a complete understanding of the harm his actions could cause and he's under the protection and sponsorship of the most corrupt and dangerous major power on earth.


It's complicated.
 
The fact that someone believes this is laughable but the tactical desition to publish such rubbish in the first place is clearly to push an agenda.

So lol at people calling Russia the most dangerous power on the planet. Brush up on the USs foreign affaird history and maybe the Iraq war.
 

Kin5290

Member
It's not like the US government gave him a chance. He was forced to stay in Russa or getting executed and maybe worse in the US. He probably knows better then we all what awaits beind the closed doors of US intelligence.
Come on now. We don't execute traitors in the US. Behind the closed doors of the US intelligence community traitors and spies are tried in a court of law and imprisoned if convicted.
 

Oppo

Member
Because some of the things he revealed were harmful to our liberty and constitution and I think the broad phone tapping for example, was an affront to democracy. I have very mixed feelings about what he revealed but I have zero doubt he is an irresponsible traitor who probably didn't have a complete understanding of the harm his actions could cause and he's under the protection and sponsorship of the most corrupt and dangerous major power on earth.


It's complicated.

I can't agree with that. The US gov't is the one who fucked up on a preposterous scale. He simply pointed it out at great personal risk. I think he's smarter than practically anyone here, he knows what was happening. Don't get spun by the machine. The head of US intelligence flat out lied to a Senator about what was happening; Snowden is not the problem.
 
I have a question: why is it impossible to crack modern encryption? I saw that being said in the thread but I'm not very knowledgeable about this. Surely countries would be working on very advanced processing that can crack this?
 

jelly

Member
Thought this was embarrassing when it was on BBC News, it's so empty and blatantly pushing an agenda. Shameful stuff. What does that say of the government.
 
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