You don't understand, people don't seem to care about the corporations as long as they get their shitty coffee from big chains. They care about all those bloody benefit cheats and immigrants taking all the money! That's how it works and that's what the Daily Mail has been poisoning people to think for nearly a century.
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British PM Theresa May Brexit Speech 17th January 2017 at 11:45AM GMT
- Thread starter SirRattleBalls
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You don't understand, people don't seem to care about the corporations as long as they get their shitty coffee from big chains. They care about all those bloody benefit cheats and immigrants taking all the money! That's how it works and that's what the Daily Mail has been poisoning people to think for nearly a century.
it is just posturing from Sturgeon, it has been reported many times that for them to call a second referendum they would want to be 99% sure of victory, as to lose a second time, would effectively ruin their party, and as it is the polls have not moved enough for them to be sure of a win
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Why can't this crooked old bitch fall and break her damn neck? She and everyone alongside her are trying to fuck this country up purely for the fact they can't admit they're wrong.
She won't win. The second run off election will stuff her good and proper.
What do you think would actually happen if parliament voted against triggering article 50? There would immediately be a snap election and the Tories would have a 200 MP majority and would be able to push through anything they like.
_/¯nelsonroyale
Member
This continues to be shambolic. On the Scottish end, the campaign for a second referendum can't come any sooner.
You say this now, but, in light of the past 12 months, I'd say nothing is out of the realm of imagination if it concerns politics.
Uhhh. Clarification on how this is possible would be welcome. I don't expect anybody to elaborate (in an official capacity) unless it happens.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I need a UK national with some understanding of the law to explain this to me, because right now I'm feeling a bit lost here.
Sturgeon response
As a union it makes sense to stay in the single market but if we leave it seems like it would in Scotland's interest to remain part of the UK since most (65%) of their exports go there. Am I wrong?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
She has to get that bill past the legislature even if she wins. I don't see her being able to do that. Without a total majority all the other parties will block it.
I've no idea precisely what this means either, but I think it means the UK would simply leave with no deal. No free trade, no customs deals, etc. I guess starting from scratch entirely, with nothing in place in terms of interaction with the EU on these fronts.
Brexit means Brexit !
Not happening.
Gamervana84
Unconfirmed Member
The vote for the deal would be the two years after article 50 is enabled. So after those two years if the deal isn't voted by the mp's the UK would be leaving the EU and go to standard WTO tariff with the EU. The vote is for the deal made not the leaving the EU. Article 50 is the mechanism to leave the EU.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Parliament will only debate the EU terms when we've already triggered article 50, and they won't have the balls to prevent A50 being triggered.
If Parliament then refuses a deal set out by May et al. that won't change the two years we have from A50 happening and leaving the EU.
They're going to vote to ratify any proposed deal once it has been 'agreed' with the EU
If Parliament votes yes, the deal will be put in place
If Parliament votes no, the deal won't be but the UK will still have left, just without any deal with the EU.
By the time such a deal is confirmed the UK will almost certainly have already left, although may be operating under a transitional agreement if the EU is stupid enough to grant them one (which it looks like they are according to Barniers speech to MEP's last week)
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Depends if Article 50 is even reversible or not. It seems to be irreversible. If it was reversible Parliament can just block it and say 'fuck it we're staying'.
Gamervana84
Unconfirmed Member
What currency would they use.
They would have to rejoin the EU many of the eastern block EU countries would probably block them.
No coming around it then? You gotta hand it to these guys. That is a great play. There is zero chance that MPs will risk their careers and vote on no deal at all taking place.
Short of some terrible event happening between now and the election that the FN can exploit she can't win. She'll get 7-8 million votes at most and that's not enough to win the first round outright and whenever the FN gets through to a second round of voting all parties rally behind the other candidate.
Isn't what he says about this totally irrelevant? If we imagine a world in which parliament votes against the final deal the May government would also have collapsed and he'd be out of a job. In such circumstances the new government would likely favour remaining in the EU, which they could do with the unanimous consent of the European Council (by extending the withdrawal date indefinitely I suppose?).
Article 50 said:
I suppose the deal could fail and we could just fall out of the EU on WTO rules but I don't see how that would ever happen tbh. What kind of deal could be reached that the Tories + Labour would prefer no deal at all?
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Euros probably, or do what Sweden does and not fulfill the conditions on purpose and use their own currency. I think independent Scotland should join the EEA, not the EU. That solves the trade issue with rUK because they can negotiate a free trade deal specifically with it.
I assume that all MPs would be given a free vote on the deal, regardless of their political allegiance. But in the case if the deal were to be rejected, the Conservative party as a majority government would then vote as a bloc to leave the EU, even without a single trade deal. Which at the least would be economic suicide.
Same argument applies to the UK and the EU.
academics claim it can be reversed if a reason is put forward for the reversal, such as a change of Government....
Government lawyer has said it is irreversible
It was actually mocked/debunked by politicians of many parties.
formasymphonic
Member
So the UK will not drop the EU acquis after Brexit but embed it in domestic legislation and as such all EU regulations, directives, rules, etc. will still be in force. And parliament will amend these in the post-Brexit phase as they see fit? Here I thought doing away with supposedly meddlesome EU-over-regulation was a key part of pro-Brexit goals. They've got an absolutely staggering amount of work ahead of them that will take multiple parliaments and many legal experts to unwrap, let alone revise and interweave again.
Juncker is laughing himself to tears as we speak.
The (second) point about "controlling our own laws" is a doozy too, implying national courts can't interpret EU legislation (and that legislation is somehow put into force without consent by the UK's representatives in the EU). Absolute gold in the context of the above. I guess I can't speak for the competence of UK courts, but I assume they are at least aware of EU laws and members of the judiciary are able to read. According to May, evidently not. When the CJEU intervenes, it's typically because a national court or government is acting counter to EU legislation, isn't respecting the four freedoms, etc.
Really it's a move to placate business and civilians so the Tories can move rapidly and worry about consequences later. Then when they no longer have to deal with things like pesky EU human rights laws and rights for workers - they can modify them as they see fit for their own interests.
Yes. This is saying it without actually saying it - and tbh I can't blame Scotland for doing what they need to do to protect themselves from the upcoming shitshow the next few years will bring.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So, i'm confused.
The non-binding vote occurred, with results being very close. It's apparent many have changed their mind, to the point where if a re-vote occurred, it would probably if not surely lose. (Echos of the situation over here in the US, lol)
So, if enough members of Parliament are willing to risk going against the very close preference vote, why would the UK continue going about exiting the EU?
The non-binding vote occurred, with results being very close. It's apparent many have changed their mind, to the point where if a re-vote occurred, it would probably if not surely lose. (Echos of the situation over here in the US, lol)
So, if enough members of Parliament are willing to risk going against the very close preference vote, why would the UK continue going about exiting the EU?
Scotland at this point in time is being held hostage in a union that more and more doesn't reflect the national mood or aspirations AT ALL. We're a largely progressive nation that is friendly towards others and we want more social justice, not less. And less social justice is exactly what Tories pandering to UKIP have in mind. Human Rights rewritten by Tories. Big business will undoubtedly get more clout and workers less and less. Tax haven UK means the super rich running rampant even more than they do already. Brexit is a massive power grab from the more extreme right wing side of our politics. Scotland has ONE Tory MP yet we get complete Tory rule. It's reaching breaking point now where the fundamental idea of what kind of country we want to be will even become more important than the raw financials. And in a socially democratic nation we can forge a different path that will bring opportunity and wealth to people through completely polar opposite policy ideas such as pursuing renewable energy for instance, not a future of sinking wages, zero hours contracts etc.
And hey, we can surely expect May's Tories to strike reasonable deals with us to the benefit of all, just as she expects the EU to bend over backwards to make the best deal for the UK.... would be hypocrisy otherwise.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I mean, the Tory plan here is to absorb the UKIP vote by doing exactly what UKIP want, thus claiming 45% + of the vote at the 2020 GE.
The goal of this is to entrench the Tories in power for twenty years by securing a strong base of vote. Scotland will never return Tory MPs - and neither will NI - so they're easy to ignore.
The goal of this is to entrench the Tories in power for twenty years by securing a strong base of vote. Scotland will never return Tory MPs - and neither will NI - so they're easy to ignore.
Well he wouldn't have won if the victor was based on the popular vote. The Trump comparisons don't work.
The FN won 0 regions in the election 2 years ago despite having 27% of the vote. This is a well trodden path, they get spanked in the second round of voting every time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_regional_elections,_2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_departmental_elections,_2015
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
any chance of NI return to the troubles?
Also as a Brit living and working in a school in Norway screw you Opressor May you just gambled my future and some of the families I teaches future in uncertain times (outside of brexit)
Also as a Brit living and working in a school in Norway screw you Opressor May you just gambled my future and some of the families I teaches future in uncertain times (outside of brexit)
Well their government fell apart this week so that probably doesn't help. Not sure what's going to happen with the border now either.
Castef
Banned
Well, this is correct. I mean, people voted.
Don'tBeWeird
Member
Did people really vote to leave the single market?
Starwolf_UK
Member
The vote May has said parliment will have is once the deal is done (so a few years time) "do you like this? yes/no. If you say no that's no deal". In other words fucking pandering so she can I gave you a vote (both options will be the same though) when most people assumed the vote would mean "do you like this? yes/no. If you say no we'll call the whole thing off and remain after all".
Where many people get confused is the much sooner triggering or Article 50 (some time in March). The UK high court ("enemies of the people" - Daily Mail) is going to announce soon if Theresa May needs parliament to vote on this or not. May thinks she can use Royal Prerogative to push it through. A citizen legally challenged this pointing out the triggering article 50 changes the legal status of everybody in the UK through law changes and as such you need it to go through parliament. What is really funny is how Brexiteers were all like "sovereignty. British courts for British laws etc" during the campaign yet lost their shit over this matter. It's the very sovereignty you wanted.
I feel like we've heard this before with Trump.
Ok, thanks for the answers. I am not from the UK (I am Dutch) so I am not exactly an expert on UK politics as a whole (though the same could be said about some of these UK politicians themselves apparently).
Well, let's all hope it isn't as bad as it seems to be, but I am not optimistic. And Brexit will hit other countries as well, especially on the short term.
Huw_Dawson
Member
No - I think the people of NI want nothing to do with the troubles or a return to them.
What it seems like they want is a stable government. Sinn Fein say they can't work with Foster due to the scandal - but more broadly this looks like both parties digging their feet in,
My hope is that Naomi Long and Alliance do well, as their post-sectarian platform is ultimately the way things have to go in NI for a lasting and stable peace. But that seems unlikely. If after the election the DUP and SF cannot come together, direct rule from Westminister will resume... which I very much doubt is something that the Tory party relish.
Which they will probably lose. However, parliament probably won't vote against it.
See my post above. The popular vote doesn't decide the winner in the US and there isn't a second round of voting a few weeks later with just the top 2 candidates like there is in France. Under the French presidential election system Trump doesn't win.
Huw_Dawson
Member
It will lock in both Labour and the Tories in to the path ahead, however. If Brexit is a disaster, then their voting record will be used against them.
In particular, it will solidify the public's perception of Labour's platform. A vote for triggering A50 is now a vote for hard Brexit. and Labour have committed to voting for A50.
Audioboxer
Member
Sturgeon response
Based Stugeon, and as always, people pulling "polls will 100% say x" out of their ass at this stage haven't really learnt much.
Well said.
This is also someone on board with a #checkyerbawballs campaign
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/810172082776641536
Point being, general sentiment is far more favourable to Sturgeon than Salmond, and he managed 45%. Don't underestimate someone who keeps putting out clear, strong and concise messaging. Some MPs would lose their shit above, demanding Scotland now leave the UK, Sturgeon is smarter than that and knows she is still juggling many unionists up here. She keeps making her message about Scotland though, rather than how bad the other side is. One way to WIN against right-wing parties. Spend more time talking about your own side, why you think it is better and what you are aspiring for.
If the article 50 notification is irreversible, then he's right. We'd end up crashing out without any deal. If it is reversible, then he's wrong, at least in the short term. Parliament could reject the deal and we could withdraw the notification, but there would still be a mandate for leaving the EU thanks to the referendum result.
Yes. But who are people going to vote for instead? The Lib Dems?
Direct rule can only last so long before things kick off again. I think Sinn Fein are largely in the right here, from everything I've read in the UK press McGuinness has basically been the one holding the power sharing executive together while the DUP have largely acted like a bunch of intolerant classless bigots.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
She will also be going up againsg theresa may. Who gives Thatcher vibes.Based Stugeon, and as always, people pulling "polls will 100% say x" out of their ass at this stage haven't really learnt much.
Well said.
This is also someone on board with a #checkyerbawballs campaign
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/810172082776641536
Point being, general sentiment is far more favourable to Sturgeon than Salmond, and he managed 45%. Don't underestimate someone who keeps putting out clear, strong and concise messaging. Some MPs would lose their shit above, demanding Scotland now leave the UK, Sturgeon is smarter than that and knows she is still juggling many unionists up here.
Audioboxer
Member
Don't worry, she'll still get the papers calling her the most dangerous woman in Britain. Cheers Daily Mail. Good ole Piers Morgan too.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Thats going to be a tough sell.
Put photos of the two next to each other.
Which one is more dangerous looking.
I mean May looks exactly like Cruella De Vil.
Put photos of the two next to each other.
Which one is more dangerous looking.
I mean May looks exactly like Cruella De Vil.
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