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[Tagyhag]

I'm happy that they got the surgery, but I'm still sad that trans people who aren't criminals have to pay a big amount of money for the surgeries and medicine, hell, some have to postpone it just because of the money problems.

But that's not the fault of the prison system, it's the fault of our shitty national healthcare.

People shouldn't be saying "Well they shouldn't get the surgery because they're criminals!" Instead it should be "Our healthcare should be better what the hell is going on?"

 

[Opto]

Nothing beyond the fact that if we have money to pay for prisoners we should also be able to pay for law-abiding citizens. But that's just something I have to accept about living in the USA.

The argument shouldn't be "if I can't get it, they shouldn't get it"

it should be "if they get it, naturally I should get it"

edit: dang tagyhag, stealing my bit!

 

[ShironRedshift]

I'm happy that they got the surgery, but I'm still sad that trans people who aren't criminals have to pay a big amount of money for the surgeries and medicine, hell, some have to postpone it just because of the money problems.

But that's not the fault of the prison system, it's the fault of our shitty national healthcare.

People shouldn't be saying "Well they shouldn't get the surgery because they're criminals!" Instead it should be "Our healthcare should be better what the hell is going on?"

Indeed. The only reason criminals are able to get this is because of a protection against cruel and unusual punishment in the Constitution, while nothing truly equivalent exists for everyone else. The way to fix this is to make sure that everyone else are granted those same rights and protections, and not to ever take them away from those who already have them. Pull people up, not push people down.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Maybe if you go to some backwoods hack surgeon in Thailand or Latin america.

Realistically you're looking at 30,000-50,000 in the U.S for this procedure.

At the good surgeons in Thailand (who do better work than American doctors in this field) you can expect to pay 15000-20000 plus travel expenses.

It's 20k CAD in Montréal.

It's 20k US in Philadelphia.

It is not anywhere near 50k.

The average is 20k

 

[Straight Edge]

There are some true sociopaths in this thread. SRS is no different than any other medical treatment a prisoner might require. If you want prisons in your society, you're responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing medical care to the inmates.

 

[breakfuss]

Slippery slope no matter which way you go...

Definitely feel little to no sympathy for a murderer but yea, I guess this is technically the "right" thing to do. Still makes me feel very uneasy.

 

[breakfuss]

There are some true sociopaths in this thread. SRS is no different than any other medical treatment a prisoner might require. If you want prisons in your society, you're responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing medical care to the inmates.

I think a lot of people (myself included) aren't educated on the particulars of the condition and its treatment. Doesn't make us sociopathic.

 

[How About No]

Ms. Real. And I don't tend to care about the mental well-being as someone who will never leave prison. That may sound cold, but Shiloh was cold when committed murder.

Sorry, Ms.

I'm gonna open myself up a little and say when I first read the article in the OP and got to the part where it said she committed murder, my gut reaction was "I hope the worst for her, I hope she rots in hell". But after reading the rest of the article and a few responses both sides I became determined that it's not about us or our feelings but they are people in the care of an institution, and it's in everyone's best interest they are able to live well in the confines of that institution, even if they will never be able to leave.

I hate murderers and rapists as well, can't get over that. But me as a fellow petty vengeful bastard, I think maybe we can think with empathy rather than not think at all?

 

[Schlorgan]

On one hand, if they really needed it, then great, on the other, I'd probably do it too to escape the rape.

Spoiler

mostly

joking.

 

[slit]

There are some true sociopaths in this thread. SRS is no different than any other medical treatment a prisoner might require. If you want prisons in your society, you're responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing medical care to the inmates.

I think it's because most still don't see it that way which is a shame. They see SRS as something done for attention or they think it's an illegitimate health issue. Otherwise the argument makes no sense. If the prisoner needed shoulder or back surgery to relieve pain no one would bat an eyelash.

 

[excelsiorlef]

On one hand, if they really needed it, then great, on the other, I'd probably do it too to escape the rape.

Spoiler

mostly

joking.

What an unnecessary comment that belittles both rape victims and trans people.

 

[Schlorgan]

What an unnecessary comment that belittles both rape victims and trans people.

I knew it was bad, but it was one of the first things to pop into my head. Now I will leave the thread (take the ban, if I warrent one) and have a good look at myself.

 

[Da-Kid]

Why is a murderer with a life sentence getting a sex change surgery for free? Who cares about your sexual identity, you're a terrible person, and you're going to die in prison. Why should anyone care about what you want or feel?

I don't get it...

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's really depressing how so many people in this thread are decrying an important healthcare treatment in the name of "what about the other trans people who can't afford it?" How many people in this thread who are against this are also trans people? As excelsior noted earlier, this isn't a matter of "a prisoner gets SRS or a non-prisoner trans person gets SRS." It's a drop-in-the-bucket treatment that ultimately doesn't negatively affect trans people, so please, do not invoke them for this argument.

Why is a murderer with a life sentence getting a sex change surgery for free? Who cares about your sexual identity, you're a terrible person, and you're going to die in prison. Why should anyone care about what you want or feel?

I don't get it...

Do you think it appropriate to withhold all medical treatment based on their status as a murderer?

Going further, what if the case was less ambiguous and less clear-cut? What if the murderer in the long run turned out to be falsely convicted of the crime? In hindsight, if SRS were withheld and the person was innocent all along, do you think that would be an appropriate thing to have done?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Realistically you're looking at 30,000-50,000 in the U.S for this procedure.

That would be the sticker price, but surely the negotiated rate is well below that for a 170k person pool. (administered by Health Net, looks like)

 

[Da-Kid]

Do you think it appropriate to withhold all medical treatment based on their status as a murderer?

Do you need a sex change to live? Is not having one a life threatening medical emergency?

 

[metalslimer]

Why is a murderer with a life sentence getting a sex change surgery for free? Who cares about your sexual identity, you're a terrible person, and you're going to die in prison. Why should anyone care about what you want or feel?

I don't get it...

Yeah why are we giving them free food too? The extension of this is obviously to let murderers just die or execute them since they are worthless

 

[A Link to the Past]

Do you need a sex change to live?

SRS is valuable to the mental health of the person receiving it.

Not all medical treatment is to save a person's life, so where does it stop? Should prisoners not have any access to cold medicine?

 

[slit]

Do you need a sex change to live?

Going by that, having any surgery that would help with chronic pain should be denied to prisoners as well. After all they don't need it to live.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Do you need a sex change to live? Is not having one a life threatening medical emergency?

The idea is that yes, mental health professionals believe this person needs the procedure to live.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

There are some true sociopaths in this thread. SRS is no different than any other medical treatment a prisoner might require. If you want prisons in your society, you're responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing medical care to the inmates.

Calling people who question this sociopaths is exterem, you can't just can't broadly call a group of people names for disagreeing with the action.

I think most people are just upset about the resources being used for a killer all the while reaources for law abiding citizens are dwindling.

 

[Matty77]

Do you need a sex change to live? Is not having one a life threatening medical emergency?

As has been noted many times in this thread yes, it can be life threatening which is why the medical professions official stance is that SRS is the proper treatment.

 

[Da-Kid]

Did I miss something? Let me read again. This person has some sort of mental condition?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Did I miss something? Let me read again. This person has some sort of mental condition?

Gender dysphoria. It was found that not receiving SRS could/was cause her mental harm.

With that said, the question still stands: do you feel that the only medical treatment that a prisoner should have access to must only be life-saving?

 

[How About No]

Do you need a sex change to live? Is not having one a life threatening medical emergency?

You may need it to not live a life of depression to the point of suicide, yes. If you're not against other medical attention or mental therapy, I don't see why this is a problem. Unless you're just ok with not taking the steps to prevent prisoners dying a painful death or hanging themselves in their cell I guess

 

[Jacksinthe]

It's really depressing how so many people in this thread are decrying an important healthcare treatment in the name of "what about the other trans people who can't afford it?" How many people in this thread who are against this are also trans people? As excelsior noted earlier, this isn't a matter of "a prisoner gets SRS or a non-prisoner trans person gets SRS." It's a drop-in-the-bucket treatment that ultimately doesn't negatively affect trans people, so please, do not invoke them for this argument.

Criticizes people for speaking on behalf of trans people.

Goes on to speak for trans people.

thisisneogaf.gif

 

[A Link to the Past]

Criticizes people for speaking on behalf of trans people.

Goes on to speak for trans people.

thisisneogaf.gif

Accuses someone of speaking for trans people

Didn't consider that the person being accused was trans and was speaking from her own experiences and literally did the thing they were mocking someone for doing

thisisneogaf.gif

And yes, it doesn't negatively affect trans people. It expands the access for trans people in prison to necessary medical treatment, which can also be granted to people whose time in prison is unjustified (either due to them being innocent of the crime they were convicted of or having received an excessive sentence). If the treatment is not given, the outcome is not that trans lives are improved.

 

[Da-Kid]

Going by that, having any surgery that would help with chronic pain should be denied to prisoners as well. After all they don't need it to live.

Sure, but what does it matter when we have murderers in 23 hour maximum prison who are losing their sanity? Which extreme is too extreme?

Yeah why are we giving them free food too? The extension of this is obviously to let murderers just die or execute them since they are worthless

You need food to live. That's not on the same level as a sex change.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Accuses someone of speaking for trans people

Didn't consider that the person being accused was trans and was speaking from her own experiences and literally did the thing they were mocking someone for doing

thisisneogaf.gif

You referred to trans people as "them".

That's not proper tense if YOU are trans. The correct term would be "us" or "we". "Them" refers to someone else.

Believe me, I read your post twice to confirm. So either you aren't and are now trolling or you are and you speak broken english. Either way I'm not wrong by the way you worded it - I considered this exact response from you before I hit submit

 

[A Link to the Past]

You referred to trans people as "them".

That's not proper tense if YOU are trans. The correct term would be "us" or "we". "Them" refers to someone else.

Believe me, I read your post twice to confirm. So either you aren't and are now trolling or you are and you speak broken english. Either way I'm not wrong by the way you worded it - I considered this exact response from you before I hit submit

Makes an assumption and then blames someone because they rushed headfirst into making an accusation

thisisneogaf.gif.meme

But sure, I'll let you pretend like jumping headfirst into an assumption is a valid thing to do in a discussion if it makes you feel better

Sure, but what does it matter when we have murderers in 23 hour maximum prison who are losing their sanity? Which extreme is too extreme?

You need food to live. That's not on the same level as a sex change.

1. Do you consider it good that we do things that affect their sanity?

2. So your argument is officially that the only treatment justifiable for prisoners MUST be in order to save their lives.

 

[slit]

Sure, but what does it matter when we have murderers in 23 hour maximum prison who are losing their sanity? Which extreme is too extreme?

I don't know what you're trying to argue. Are you saying because the justice system has major flaws, we should just make it worse for them or not care?

 

[How About No]

Sure, but what does it matter when we have murderers in 23 hour maximum prison who are losing their sanity? Which extreme is too extreme?

You need food to live. That's not on the same level as a sex change.

Both are terrible, nobody can say different.

SRS is on another level of need than food, but we are able to provide both

 

[Jacksinthe]

Makes an assumption and then blames someone because they rushed headfirst into making an accusation

thisisneogaf.gif.meme

But sure, I'll let you pretend like jumping headfirst into an assumption is a valid thing to do in a discussion if it makes you feel better

Oh I didn't jump in head first.

I even BOLDED that specific part, if you read your post I quoted.

Nice try, though.

 

[Vilix]

So a murderer gets a sex change funded by California tax payers. Hmmm. Thank God I live in Texas.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Oh I didn't jump in head first.

I even BOLDED that specific part, if you read your post I quoted.

Nice try, though.

k

 

[Koyuga]

1. You act like without sex-change this person would have died (life threatened).
2. Stop with the sensationalism.

1. It's not a sex change, it's a gender-affirming surgery.
2. It absolutely is a matter of life or death.

 

[Opto]

You referred to trans people as "them".

That's not proper tense if YOU are trans. The correct term would be "us" or "we". "Them" refers to someone else.

Believe me, I read your post twice to confirm. So either you aren't and are now trolling or you are and you speak broken english. Either way I'm not wrong by the way you worded it - I considered this exact response from you before I hit submit

Wow it's always straight to the diction when you have nothing else to go on, huh. Maybe don't think anyone who identifies as trans wants to be so open about it, especially in a thread where people are openly questioning the validity of a procedure that benefits their mental health

 

[GurgleBot20]

Why are people ignoring the comments that say this costs taxpayers pennies at most and also the ones that say SRS is covered by Medicare for citizens in CA?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wow it's always straight to the diction when you have nothing else to go on, huh. Maybe don't think anyone who identifies as trans wants to be so open about it, especially in a thread where people are openly questioning the validity of a procedure that benefits their mental health

Well actually, I'm either a troll or a trans person with poor English skills. So it can't possibly be that.

 

[Yaboosh]

You referred to trans people as "them".

That's not proper tense if YOU are trans. The correct term would be "us" or "we". "Them" refers to someone else.

Believe me, I read your post twice to confirm. So either you aren't and are now trolling or you are and you speak broken english. Either way I'm not wrong by the way you worded it - I considered this exact response from you before I hit submit

This is just so hateful.

 

[i3allistic]

and we have a homeless problem in California, especially bay area...but we wanna pay for murderer surgery .....

 

[Kai Dracon]

Because this always seems to come up in any discussion about spending money on prisoners, a different perspective: "your taxes" aren't being used to pamper someone you think is bad and doesn't deserve it. They're being used to insure all people are treated fairly, regardless of anyone's feelings, opinions, biases, or emotions.

In this specific case, it sets a precedent: anyone who requires reassignment and movement to the appropriate facility will have that done. Regardless of their crime. That means someone you may think was screwed over by the system and incarcerated unjustly will at least not have to suffer that much further. It means someone you may think can be rehabilitated will receive appropriate care, which will, by the way, aid in their rehabilitation. (By you know, not forcing them to live in unhealthy conditions.)

(Related to that, this is a reason why there is a push to get rid of things like solitary confinement. The vengeful seem to enjoy imagining evil people being locked in a dungeon with no light, but the fact that the dungeon exists means it can and is abused to torture all kinds of people.)

Consider that if the United States had a proper first world healthcare system, "your taxes" would also be going to pay for the cancer treatment of some random person somewhere you would assuredly hate. Which is, by the way, what I hear from a lot of Americans - they don't want those communist systems that give good things to people they dislike.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So a murderer gets a sex change funded by California tax payers. Hmmm. Thank God I live in Texas.

Yeah it'd really hurt your bottom line at 0.001$ as in not even a penny.

But sure brag about your state whose federal court that just blocked health rights for all trans people not just those in prison!

 

[A Link to the Past]

and we have a homeless problem in California, especially bay area...but we wanna pay for murderer surgery .....

All money that goes to prisoners theoretically takes from money for the homeless. Should all money be withheld?

 

[Izuna]

FYI: the success rate of surgeries correlates with how often an institution performs the specific surgery.

This whole tax dollars crap is getting on my nerves, the more I see it.

 

[Opto]

So a murderer gets a sex change funded by California tax payers. Hmmm. Thank God I live in Texas.

The state that uses even more tax dollars to execute people?

 

[Matty77]

Sure, but what does it matter when we have murderers in 23 hour maximum prison who are losing their sanity? Which extreme is too extreme?

And that is also inhumane treatment that needs to be fixed.

These comparisons are crazy though, the emphasis should be on improving and fixing things not breaking more shit so everything is equally as bad.

 

[Da-Kid]

I hate this fallacy people always feel the need to do. Which is "If you feel X isn't necessary then you feel the whole damn alphabet isn't either" it's infuriating.

Yes, I'm against a convicted murderer is getting something I feel isn't necessary for them to live. Why should I care about the mental anguish you suffer when there's other prisoners literally going insane in a cell? Why is this extreme more significant than the other? I wonder if you're even sorry about killing someone or so concerned about your mental health that it's all you care about. Never mind the mental trauma you caused someone's family.

Yeah, I'm speaking with my emotions.

 

[i3allistic]

All money that goes to prisoners theoretically takes from money for the homeless. Should all money be withheld?

maybe help the low-income honest citizen that work for a living or fix the old highway system we have

 

[A Link to the Past]

I hate this fallacy people always feel the need to do. Which is "If you feel X isn't necessary then you feel the whole damn alphabet isn't either" it's infuriating.

Yes, I'm against a convicted murderer is getting something I feel isn't necessary for them to live. Why should I care about the mental anguish you suffer when there's other prisoners literally going insane in a cell? Why is this extreme more significant than the other? I wonder if you're even sorry about killing someone or so concerned about your mental health that it's all you care about. Never mind the mental trauma you caused someone's family.

Yeah, I'm speaking with my emotions.

But medical professionals do not agree with you as to whether it is necessary for the person's survival. Your opinion is actively based on a lack of understanding of the value of SRS.

maybe help the low-income honest citizen that work for a living or fix the old highway system we have

You didn't answer my question. Should all money be withheld?