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[excelsiorlef]

I'm sure we could find many people advocating for a lack of treatment of life endangering conditions for death row inmates. They are ignorant and fools, of course, but the nature of such ignorance is at the heart of this line of discussion.

The people in question in this thread have in fact drawn a delineation between what GRS and what they believe to be necessary surgery...

Stop trying to pretend that this is just all about the fact that she's a prisoner and that her being trans has nothing to do with it.

Because it's elective, of course. Do we also pay for free nose jobs?

Case in point

 

[Slo]

Are you stupid?

Quoted for future moderation.

We would if it was proven that nose jobs keep people from suffering from dysphoria.

It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I guess we're all simply transphobic Trump supporters for thinking this is fundamentally wrong. I'm all for gender assignment surgeries but for a murderer with a life sentence...seriously?

Don't worry, nobody thinks you're a transphobic Trump supporter.

As for the bolded, we are looking at this as a necessary medical procedure for a very real condition (dysphoria) that gets results. Would you object to a prisoner that needed medicine for his heart?

 

[norm9]

If she needed dialysis because her kidney was failing, would you be conflicted?

What about medication to treat bipolar disorder?

Id still be conflicted because it's a murderer with zero redeeming value. I'm also against the death penalty so maybe it makes me a hypocrite.

Like the other person who responded to me, it's probably better I'm not in charge.

 

[zeemumu]

No, I can't. I mean, I'm reading the words but they aren't making sense to me.

A lot of people don't see being stuck in a building for the rest of your life as equal retribution for taking a life if the person is comfortable, and the taxpayer aspect of it makes it slightly personal for more than just the victim's family. I guess that would depend on one's definition of punishment.

 

[Kthulhu]

Quoted for future moderation.



It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

You didn't answer my question. These surgical procedures are psychologically necessary.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Quoted for future moderation.



It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

GRS is the most effective treatment for trans folk recognized by medical science . What treatment do you suggest since you claim to know better.

 

[StopMakingSense]

It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

That is a really fucking disgusting thing to say.

 

[Opto]

Id still be conflicted because it's a murderer with zero redeeming value. I'm also against the death penalty so maybe it makes me a hypocrite.

Like the other person who responded to me, it's probably better I'm not in charge.

should we put people into solitary confinement for the rest of their lives because they have no redeeming value? I imagine you'd say no, it's torture. Forcing someone to experience gender dysphoria falls under torture too.

 

[Monocle]

Because it's elective, of course. Do we also pay for free nose jobs?

Can you enlighten us as to how the two procedures are comparable?

 

[disappeared]

Because it's elective, of course. Do we also pay for free nose jobs?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[MUnited83]

In Norway (a country that actually cares about human rights) there is no life sentence, and prisoners don't spend more than 20 years for crimes like murder and rape, yet they are able to get by just fine.

Not "just fine", it has great results. Some of the lowest crime rates in the world, and the lowest reoffending rates (despite the idiotic argument that people would commit crimes just to go to such prisons)
Proper rehabilitation has been proven the true effective, civilised method with benefits for all of society.
Yet there are still people with such a blinding thirst for blood they'd rather have criminals be barely alive at all, in a country where incarceration rates are huge, crime rates are bad compared to other first world countries, and reoffending rates are off the charts.
Revenge justice simply doesn't work.

 

[Replicant]

Selfishness discussion aside, this seems like a very risky thing to do during imprisonment. With the amount of bigots running around in prison, doesn't this make her a potential target in the new prison?

 

[Buzzman]

I'd love to hear the state's reasoning as to why this is an important enough issue to require medical intervention, but torturing thousands through solitary confinement is still considered acceptable.

Don't get me wrong, in any respectable society gender dysphoria is absolutely a big problem and SRS should be considered necessary. But if the U.S Justice System is going to start caring about the mental health of inmates, then there's a hell of a lot more they should be doing.

 

[Naudi]

Then, in all honesty, you should educate yourself a little on the subject rather than resigning yourself to what appears to be some kind of "gut feeling" that is likely rooted in ignorance and/or misinformation. You are on the internet. Information is at your fingertips. There really no excuse.

Nah I'm plenty educated on the matter. Thanks anyway. The answer isnt always lack of knowledge, sorry.

 

[Yayate]

It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

Please do some research before making a massive ass out of yourself. If you think calling someone an idiot is even remotely banworthy, what you just said is a significant amount worse.

Do you really think it's nothing more than a nosejob?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Selfishness discussion aside, this seems like a very risky thing to do during imprisonment. With the amount of bigots running around in prison, doesn't this make her a potential target in the new prison?

What?

 

[entremet]

Selfishness discussion aside, this seems like a very risky thing to do during imprisonment. With the amount of bigots running around in prison, doesn't this make her a potential target in the new prison?

Possibly.

But she was moved to a women's prison for that reason.

 

[Coffee Dog]

It's a body image issue in my mind. Slicing and dicing yourself to make yourself prettier.

Dysphoria is slightly more complex than just a "body image issue". Read up on it.

The more severe nature of dysphoria is why SRS is a valid and effective treatment method. That's why this boils down to a health care for prisoners issue.

The people in question in this thread have in fact drawn a delineation between what GRS and what they believe to be necessary surgery...

Stop trying to pretend that this is just all about the fact that she's a prisoner and that her being trans has nothing to do with it.

I never said this. You simply said that it wasn't because she was a prisoner, and I objected. The prisoner in this case sadly carries both stigmas, and we can find examples of both in this thread.

 

[Opto]

Selfishness discussion aside, this seems like a very risky thing to do during imprisonment. With the amount of bigots running around in prison, doesn't this make her a potential target in the new prison?

How is that different before the GRS

 

[Stinkles]

That's like saying I should be educating the people that say "faggot" and "nigger" instead of calling them what they are, bigots and racists. I'm not their motherfucking teacher and they have a whole world of information at the reach of their fingertips.

No. It's not the same at all. The idea that random Americans should simply understand complex, evolving and multilayered issues that are emerging in the 21st century - and issues in fact that the trans and medical community is still struggling to educate people on - is naive and you can and should do better. It's not your responsibility but your attitude is counterproductive to the cause you care about.

This is more akin to a German exchange student using those words - and you refusing to correct or explain to him.


Dude has hopefully read through the thread and gotten better information.

 

[Replicant]

What?

The possibilities that other prisoners find out about the former identity of the inmate and decided to make her life a nightmare because of this is pretty likely.

How is that different before the GRS

Who knows? But I figure this actually puts her at higher risk.

 

[Kthulhu]

Selfishness discussion aside, this seems like a very risky thing to do during imprisonment. With the amount of bigots running around in prison, doesn't this make her a potential target in the new prison?

She was moved to a woman's prison, so as long as they don't know who she is she'll probably be fine. Or at least as fine as you can be in a US prison.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

 

[Kthulhu]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

You taxes are already doing that.

It is necessary. Do your research. Or at least read what's been posted.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

As always we're talking pennies
Also she's a she
And GRS is the treatment that works for trans folk.

 

[Doop]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

She. It's not hard to use the right pronouns.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Nah I'm plenty educated on the matter. Thanks anyway. The answer isnt always lack of knowledge, sorry.

If you don't think it's necessary, you are either

1. Unaware (or contest) of the severity of dysphoria
2. Unaware (or contest) of the effectiveness of this treatment

Which means you aren't plenty educated, considering the wealth of studies on these issues in recent years.

The only option is that you do comprehend these things but you have some sort of ill will towards either prisoners, trans people, or californians, but I would implore you to focus on the scientific consensus as to what would be the best thing to do with this prisoner.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The possibilities that other prisoners find out about the former identity of the inmate and decided to make her life a nightmare because of this is pretty likely.



Who knows? But I figure this actually puts her at higher risk.

You don't protect someone from bigotry by denying them medical care.

 

[Monocle]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Sorry you lost maybe one penny to prevent someone's mental torment.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

Based on what info? Or do you think you can make that judgement call with no information?

Are you familiar with the effects of untreated gender dysphoria?

 

[Coffee Dog]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

What if the prisoner had a back that put him in screaming pain every night without surgery? It's the prisons job to care after inmates. The inmate, in this example, is in clear, horrible pain.

Now, to experts familiar with the condition, dysphoria is also awful pain. And this procedure is a remedy.

 

[entremet]

The taxpayer angle is interesting when you look at crazier things like corporate welfare. Relieving someone from anguish seems nonchalant in comparison.

I guess conservative brainwashing works on everyone too.

 

[BadenBadenLily]

Does California Medicaid cover SRS?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Does California Medicaid cover SRS?

yes

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Nah I'm plenty educated on the matter. Thanks anyway. The answer isnt always lack of knowledge, sorry.

Having the knowledge and refusing to believe it is still ignorance, despite your stubbornness. Some people simply can't be helped no matter the evidence. Guess we have to just hope society can move forward and progress in spite of people like you.

 

[Matty77]

I'd be pretty upset if my taxes were accommodating a piece of shit.

Also not buying the it's necessary argument. He survived the last however many years without the surgery, he can deal with it more.

You know when you purposefully use the wrong pronouns at odds with the findings of the medical community, your pretty much invalidating anything else you say.

 

[BadenBadenLily]

yes

Then I don't see what the issue is.

The prisoner is receiving treatment for a medical condition that is covered by public insurance.

 

[PlayBoyMoney]

Are people advocating we should be paying for surgeries for anyone unhappy with their bodies (read-just about everyone)? Or only for criminals? How unhappy does someone have to be?

Depression caused by unhappiness with their body, that is the medical ailment we are talking about here, correct?

 

[nocturnalis]

GRS is a life saving procedure...

GRS
IS
A
LIFESAVING
PROCEDURE!


It is not "cosmetic surgery"

No one is denying that. Her's just isn't a life worth saving.

 

[Super_Cobra]

Alright so I'll accept the medical condition on why she got the surgery. I had problems with my image to the point I put a gun to my head a couple times because I hated the way I looked. Fortunately I was too much of a coward to pull the trigger. I also had support from my GF and got on the right meds.

I hope that murderer has shown remorse for what she did and the mental damage she did to the family of the victim. And I sure hope she becomes a better person from this help.

 

[How About No]

No one is denying that. Her's just isn't a life worth saving.

I said it to someone before, but these impulses are the reason we aren't in charge

Alright so I'll accept the medical condition on why she got the surgery. I had problems with my image to the point I put a gun to my head a couple times because I hated the way I looked. Fortunately I was too much of a coward to pull the trigger. I also had support from my GF and got on the right meds.

I sure do hope that murderer has shown remorse on what she did and the mental damage she did to the family of the victim. And I sure hope she becomes a better person from this help.

Thank you. And sorry you went through that.

 

[-COOLIO-]

If you imprison someone, you're required to care for their mental and physical wellbeing. This is the principle that guides medical and mental health care for prisoners, and one of many things that denotes a civilized society. The alternatives are horrific.

This decision seems completely in line with that guiding principle in the same way patients receiving their meds and patients being treated for non life threatening injuries are.

fair, but by the same token, sex reassignment surgery and cancer treatment should be paid for by the government for anyone that needs it. not just people in jail.

it sounds like the single payer healthcare exists in the US, but only for inmates?

 

[excelsiorlef]

No one is denying that. Her's just isn't a life worth saving.

A ton of people have in fact denied that...

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

No one is denying that. Her's just isn't a life worth saving.

that's not for you to decide

 

[PlayBoyMoney]

fair, but by the same token, sex reassignment surgery and cancer treatment should be paid for by the government for anyone that needs it. not just people in jail.

it sounds like the single payer healthcare exists in the US, but only for inmates?

That is about what it seems like. Very odd indeed.

 

[nocturnalis]

that's not for you to decide

I didn't decide that. She did when she decided to murder someone.

 

[Kthulhu]

I didn't decide that. She did when she decided to murder someone.

All human lives are worth trying to save. It's a shame you and many others don't realize that.

 

[Geist-]

I have to agree with the victim's daughter. If we had single payer health care that provided this kind of surgery to everyone who wanted it, it wouldn't matter, but when we have law-abiding citizens suffering from this same thing and are too poor to finance their own surgery, murderers shouldn't either.

 

[Izuna]

If you're going to go after him for word choice you should probably switch your "transphobic" to ignorant or better still, uneducated. Accusing people of ill intent rather than educating them on a new, evolving and highly misunderstood legal, medical and psychological frontier and societal shift seems counterproductive. That person is now defensive rather than curious or receptive.

More flies with honey.

~ TYT

 

[excelsiorlef]

Are people advocating we should be paying for surgeries for anyone unhappy with their bodies (read-just about everyone)? Or only for criminals? How unhappy does someone have to be?

Depression caused by unhappiness with their body, that is the medical ailment we are talking about here, correct?

You mock the daily struggles of trans folk with this statement.

The average person does not have the same issues with their bodies that trans folk have.

We all hate our bodies is not a valid argument to why GRS isn't crucial in treating trans folk.