amigastar
Member
While i agree with you the argumentation can go both ways i believe. To me personally PC cost more because it can do more things for sure.
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Topher
Identifies as young
I think for the sake of these comparisons it should be in the context of the gaming experience if we are doing like for like, pricing comparisons. Very difficult to put a monetary value on the non-gaming activities one can perform on a PC.
HogIsland
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
brenobnfm
Member
Not everyone care about online garbage, this is a console for single player enthusiasts.
HogIsland
Member
pure cope. it's sad that you'd even respond this way.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But then you’re not getting like-for-like, are you? I could just get an RTX 3060 and say I play at 1080p and that the Pro does nothing for me. Those comparisons seldom make a lot of sense.
Bojji
Member
Yeah but extra space is not exactly needed at day one. You can always expand later, I bought 1TB NVME for PS5 last month.
I think people would prefer cheaper console with 1TB drive or the same price with 1TB + disc drive.
1TB is cheaper than 2TB...
Also just 3,7 TB with 6 drives?
2x 512GB SATA
2x 512GB NVME
1x 1TB HDD (~2012)
1x 700GB HDD, this one is from PS3 Super slim lol
I bought those drives when they were dirt cheap, 1TB models were VERY expensive back in the day.
King Dazzar
Member
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brenobnfm
Member
Cope from you, why the fuck would i care about PS Plus if i only buy single player physical games? The games that will really benefit from Pro's enhancements. Not only you're coping, just shows that you don't even know what the audience for this console really is.
Bad comparison, single player gamers are losing nothing without Plus, you're getting a much worse rendition of games, regardless of the type and being locked into paying for digital rent, which is money you'll never see again.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh...let's be clear here. I was responding to a post that was claiming the starting price of a Pro was literally $880. That's just bullshit. The paid online argument is certainly a valid one to make in favor of PCs, but it isn't a required expense. Just like a bluray player and dualsense controller are not required expenses for a PC.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But multiplayer games and single player games with multiplayer components are. I don’t know why we’re acting like multiplayer and online are a non-factors and we can just ignore them, but resolution is so damn important. For most people, playing online matters a lot more than having a higher resolution.
Online games constantly dominate, so this thing going on here where most of us are a bunch of old men who dislike online games isn’t representative of the real world.
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brenobnfm
Member
The problem is that you're clueless and arguing based on vibes, i actually follow the Pro's enhanced games list, it's basically made of single player games with your odd Apex Legends and Marvel Rivals here and there (both don't require PS Plus by the way). Do some research, statements based on vibes are not gonna cut it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Huh, so the multiplayer games won’t work on the Pro lol? F1 2024 doesn’t have multiplayer? Demon’s Souls doesn’t have multiplayer? Gran Turismo 7? Diablo IV? EA Sports FC? Fortnite? And the list goes on.
You call me clueless but dropped this gem of a post lmao.
King Dazzar
Member
PS5 is my main platform but I don't sub to anything with PlayStation. I have a sub running for GPU, but it isnt to play online either... I'm sure its importance varies from gamer to gamer.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It does, which is my point. The average gamer does care about online and multiplayer as evidenced by the most played games being dominated by multiplayer titles. If you were to list the 10 most played PS5 games at the moment, I don't even think there would be one single-player game. Like most people, I play a mix of single-player and multiplayer games.
brenobnfm
Member
The list in fact doesn't go on much longer, the fact you need to bring something like Demon's Souls in which the multiplayer is optional tells everything. Fortnite doesn't even require PS Plus, you don't know what you're talking about at all. If someone wants to buy a Pro for fucking EA Sports FC, that's the their problem, but that's not what the console is designed for.
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King Dazzar
Member
The Pro isnt aimed at your average Joe Fortnite player though.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The list does go on much longer. Here it is. Out of 67 games:
- Alan Wake 2
- Apex Legends
- Assassin’s Creed Shadows
- The Callisto Protocol
- The Crew Motorfest
- Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster
- Demon’s Souls
- Diablo IV
- Dragon Age: The Veilguard
- Dragon’s Dogma 2
- Dwarf Journey
- Dynasty Warriors: Origins
- EA Sports College Football 25
- EA Sports FC 25
- Empire of the Ants
- Enlisted
- EVERSPACE 2
- F1 24
- Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
- The First Descendant
- Fortnite
- God of War Ragnarok
- Gran Turismo 7
- Hogwarts Legacy
- Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered
- Horizon Forbidden West
- The Last of Us Part I
- The Last of Us Part II Remastered
- Lies of P
- Like a Dragon: Pirate Yakuza in Hawaii
- Madden NFL 25
- Marvel Rivals
- Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater
- The Midnight Town Stories: Adam's Diary
- Monster Hunter Wilds
- Mortal Kombat 1
- My Little Universe
- Naraka: Bladepoint
- No Man’s Sky
- Outbreak: Shades of Horror Chromatic Split
- Pro Baseball Spirits 2024-2025
- Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
- Redacted
- Resident Evil 4
- Resident Evil Village
- Retrieval
- Rise of the Ronin
- Rogue Flight
- Spider-Man Remastered
- Spider-Man Miles Morales
- Spider-Man 2
- Spine: This is Gun Fu
- Star Wars Jedi Survivor
- Star Wars Outlaws
- Stellar Blade
- Test Drive Unlimited: Solar Crown
- Towers of Aghasba
- UFC 5
- Unreal Kingdoms
- Until Dawn
- Warframe
- War Thunder
- Wolverine
- World of Warships: Legends
27 games out of 67, with huge ones that are basically worthless offline such as Apex, Diablo IV, Warframe, or Monster Hunter Wilds.
Irrelevant. You think Pro players only play single-player games? They don't play COD, Diablo, Fifa, or 2K? What about GTA VI which will have no doubt a huge online mode? That's a nice attempt you guys made to downplay online, but reality tells us that even on the Pro, online titles feature prominently.
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HogIsland
Member
the fact that you even delineate between single player and multiplayer is sad. game design is past this. are you going to play Death Stranding 2 next year? That is going to have some cool reasons to be online. You're not getting the whole experience if you don't pay the troll toll every year.
Topher
Identifies as young
This is easy. Break it out.
For folks who don't care about online at all, the base MSRP is $700. Nothing more is required.
For folks who want online as well, the base MSRP is still $700, but an annual $80 a year fee is required.
Been this way for years, for crying out loud
For folks who don't care about online at all, the base MSRP is $700. Nothing more is required.
For folks who want online as well, the base MSRP is still $700, but an annual $80 a year fee is required.
Been this way for years, for crying out loud
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King Dazzar
Member
The thrust of your argument is on a sub being mandatory. As I and others are saying, that for us it isnt.
HogIsland
Member
i would just say you have to take into account that your 700 console is crippled, can't play many games, plays other games with a compromised experience, etc.This is easy. Break it out.
For folks who don't care about online at all, the base MSRP is $700. Nothing more is required.
For folks who want online as well, the base MSRP is still $700, but an annual $80 a year fee is required.
Been this way for years, for crying out loud
brenobnfm
Member
Yeah mate i see this list every day, i am not sure if you’re dumb or just want to artificially increase the list insisting on a bunch of free to play games that do not require ps plus since the whole issue is having to pay a subscription.
Topher
Identifies as young
No, I really don't. I only play single player games on PS5. Period. Nothing "crippled" about that. The problem here is you want to apply how you play games to others. It doesn't work that way.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Most of those aren't F2P. You got destroyed. You told me to do my research and that the Pro has an odd online game here and there when 40% of the list is online games. You then doubled down and even said that the random games I listed were most of them. Now you're moving the goalposts and trying to claim that that "a bunch of f2p games" when there are like 5 of those that are F2P.
Absolutely not. The crux of my argument is that you are not getting the same value out of a system that cannot play multiplayer games and these are hugely popular. Yes, even your guys who love TLOU or Spider-Man 2 also love playing FIFA or GTA online.
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HogIsland
Member
no, i'm talking about actual videogames that are made and widely played. is elden ring a single player game?
Topher
Identifies as young
So am I. Plenty of "actual videogames" have no multiplayer components at all and are widely played. Elden Ring can easily be played as single player. That doesn't mean it is a "crippled" experience. If it is to you then fine.....that's you.
BTW.....I play games more on PC than on console and I still only play single player games.
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MisterXDTV
Member
PC multiplayer might be free but it's infested with cheaters making most games unplayable
I'd rather pay an annual fee and have a good experience playing
I'd rather pay an annual fee and have a good experience playing
kevboard
Member
for anything that isn't a racing game, digital triggers typically are better.
the Dualsense has no Hall effect triggers. the Dualsense uses the same pressure sensitive rubber dome stuff that Sony used ever since the PS2's pressure sensitive buttons. it's pretty imprecise due to that comparatively.
the only first party controllers that ever used Hall Effect triggers are the Dreamcast and Xbox controllers.
Sony always used rubber dome pads, and Nintendo on the GC and Wii Classic used potentiometers I think
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Bojji
Member
LOL, Stockholm syndrome. Imagine that between 2006 and 2013 you had free online on a Sony console.
brenobnfm
Member
DeStRoYeD, ReKt, get edgier please, at 15 yo i was too.
So, around 20 games that you have to pay for online, most of them begin heavy hitters like Empire of the Ants and games where online is optional.
Yeah i cannot see how someone with a Pro can’t survive without plus lmao. Make a better effort on the mental gymnastics next time.
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King Dazzar
Member
As I say your value add, doesnt apply to I and other gamers. So maybe this other collective you keep referring to will take note of the free online and buy a £700 PC instead - I doubt it.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Probably still are considering you began being condescending for no reason.
If you ignore Diablo IV, Monster Hunter Wilds, MK1, Gran Turismo 7, and the other actual heavy hitters, absolutely, but that would be dishonest and you aren't dishonest, are you?
Let's have a laugh at how pathetic you've become.
And it turns out that the "odd game here and there" is actually 40% of the list. For someone who's following the list, you sure didn't read it. Then you tried to handwave F2P titles, but it turns out they don't even make up most of the multiplayer games. The bottom line is that not only are you a massive hypocrite, but you're a goalpost mover who will always make spins when he gets presented with actual facts. Mental gymnastics on my part? Because I'm the one who went from "odd game here and there" to "20 games out of 67 don't matter" lmao. The biggest irony in all of this is that the most impressive Pro showcase is F1 24, a game that most will play online.
Cool, but it applies to most gamers. There's a reason Sony is able to sell you consoles for a lower price, they make their money back with online subscriptions. For the record, I think those comparisons are silly, but if you're going to make them, don't just ignore some critical aspects of them.
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HogIsland
Member
it is crippled without online support. many games are.
Topher
Identifies as young
Last time Sony revealed PlayStation Plus numbers was in end of FY 2023. 47.4 million subscribers. Between all the active PS4s and PS5s out in the world, that's probably around half the total user base.
Obviously a huge chunk of PlayStation gamers do not feel paid online is needed for what they play.
www.pushsquare.com
We need stop pretending online is mandatory. It is not.
Eh....you are just repeating the same thing over and over my man. I'll agree to disagree.
Obviously a huge chunk of PlayStation gamers do not feel paid online is needed for what they play.
Sony's PS Plus Subscriber Count Is on the Rise Once Again
Another one million members join
www.pushsquare.com
We need stop pretending online is mandatory. It is not.
Eh....you are just repeating the same thing over and over my man. I'll agree to disagree.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
You're never going to get like-for-like because Playstation Plus is not just an online MP service, it has monthly free games including from its first party studios. I don't know why people continue with this argument that it's only about online MP
kevboard
Member
crossplay exists. so you will be forced to play with PC players anyways in most modern games
HogIsland
Member
agree to disagree if you like. From Software made the game the way they did. They paid dozens of people to implement online mechanics. Kojima is certainly doing similar right now on Death Stranding 2. You can get the experience the developer intended or you can get a crippled experience. On PCs it's just part of the game. On Playstation it costs you $80/yr.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Death Stranding didnt require PS Plus, what are you talking about?
HogIsland
Member
it's funny to use Sony's coercive player-gouging as a defense of Sony. They don't offer a PSN tier without games for the obvious reason: the games are a cheap sweetener, and they're twisting your arm with multiplayer. let's see them make online free, how many people are going to subscribe for just the PSN Essentials-tier games? let's see them offer a $20/year online-only subscription without monthly games.
btw there's lots of ways to get free games on PC.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
There's no way to get the same equivalent free games on PC, was my point. They are not a like for like comparison and never will be. There's a lot of gamers that do not need either on a regular basis, so you can just opt out.
I may play online MP for like 1-2 months tops each year? So you can get a PS Plus sub for 1 or 3 months and pay a lot less than $80.
Yeah, it's a "disadvantage" compared to PC pricing structure, but PC pricing has its own issues to deal with for the cost of hardware itself.
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It’s funny that this point is completely off base since you get games with the online fee (and you don’t even need to sub + a bunch of online games don’t require it)
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Any game can treat the Dualsense or Xbox trigger as 'digital'. The very basic triggers of the Switch pro controller isn't "a bonus".
If you're referring to travel of the trigger button when pressed the triggers on the Switch Pro controller have a lot of travel.
This is before you get into advanced features on the dualsense triggers or optional trigger stops you can get too. With games like Fortnite and Returnal they use the adaptive trigger to reduce travel for an identical 'digital'/low travel button, and even secondary feature in the case of Returnal. Those are bonuses, not the crap triggers on the Switch Pro controller.
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Topher
Identifies as young
If you want to pretend most single players games implement online components like Elder Ring and Death Stranding then feel free to believe whatever you want. That is just not the reality.
Like I said before, break it out into to two different segments for console gamers. Those who want online and those who don't. That is the most objective way to look at it. With the numbers I posted above, seems obvious PlayStation gamers are split on this.
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Astray
Member
Nobody said you need 4090. But I'm of the belief that if you want to help someone get on PC, then you need to put him on a track to utilize the PC landscapes strengths as much as possible.
No point in pushing them to get a CPU/Mobo combo with no upgrade path (or a bad PSU) just to be able to say "hey this $700-800 PC does better than PS5 Pro!". If their aim is to be better than the consoles then you want them to be able to stay better than the successive gen at minimal cost and effort. Even if it involves a bit more saving.
A person who buys a 3060ti or 4060ti today will be the 1st person to complain about "unoptimized ports" when the next console gen rolls in in about 2-4 years.
We've already seen this when the SX and PS5 came out.
HogIsland
Member
game design has been past this distinction since like Burnout Paradise (2008).
Topher
Identifies as young
What distinction are you referring to? Factually, single player games continue to be released with no online components.
kevboard
Member
still faster than the long travel of the other default first party controllers
The Dualsense Edge has hall effect triggers. Notice the hall sensor in the picture on the right.
ok, the edge is different then. But that's a premium controller, and your original comment didn't mention the Edge only the normal Dualsense, which has the imprecise rubber domes.
premium controllers like the Edge weren't really the topic here, only the default and cheaper controllers
The travel is shorter but it's not a bonus at all. How can you suggest the basic digital button with useless travel on a Switch Pro is a bonus. It's just a shit button. one you can replicate easily on Dualsense or Xbox with trigger stops. You can even replicate it in software via the adaptive triggers on regular Dualsense and games like Fortnite have these features built in.
It's not really imprecise but might be less reliable long term than a hall sensor one.
We were talking about the Switch Pro controller though, not the default controllers on Nintendo Switch but yes I can see where the misunderstanding with the Dualsense Edge came in too, I should have been clearer there. To be honest I wasn't aware of it being different on the regular either.