Support NeoGAF

[Ebrietas]

The list does go on much longer. Here it is. Out of 67 games:

• Alan Wake 2
• Apex Legends
• Assassin’s Creed Shadows
• The Callisto Protocol
• The Crew Motorfest
• Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster
• Demon’s Souls
• Diablo IV
• Dragon Age: The Veilguard
• Dragon’s Dogma 2
• Dwarf Journey
• Dynasty Warriors: Origins
• EA Sports College Football 25
• EA Sports FC 25
• Empire of the Ants
• Enlisted
• EVERSPACE 2
• F1 24
• Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
• The First Descendant
• Fortnite
• God of War Ragnarok
• Gran Turismo 7
• Hogwarts Legacy
• Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered
• Horizon Forbidden West
• The Last of Us Part I
• The Last of Us Part II Remastered
• Lies of P
• Like a Dragon: Pirate Yakuza in Hawaii
• Madden NFL 25
• Marvel Rivals
• Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater
• The Midnight Town Stories: Adam's Diary
• Monster Hunter Wilds
• Mortal Kombat 1
• My Little Universe
• Naraka: Bladepoint
• No Man’s Sky
• Outbreak: Shades of Horror Chromatic Split
• Pro Baseball Spirits 2024-2025
• Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
• Redacted
• Resident Evil 4
• Resident Evil Village
• Retrieval
• Rise of the Ronin
• Rogue Flight
• Spider-Man Remastered
• Spider-Man Miles Morales
• Spider-Man 2
• Spine: This is Gun Fu
• Star Wars Jedi Survivor
• Star Wars Outlaws
• Stellar Blade
• Test Drive Unlimited: Solar Crown
• Towers of Aghasba
• UFC 5
• Unreal Kingdoms
• Until Dawn
• Warframe
• War Thunder
• Wolverine
• World of Warships: Legends

27 games out of 67, with huge ones that are basically worthless offline such as Apex, Diablo IV, Warframe, or Monster Hunter Wilds.


Irrelevant. You think Pro players only play single-player games? They don't play COD, Diablo, Fifa, or 2K? What about GTA VI which will have no doubt a huge online mode? That's a nice attempt you guys made to downplay online, but reality tells us that even on the Pro, online titles feature prominently.

If you're going to include any game with a MP component that require PS+ for $80/year (the most popular MP games don't as has been pointed out to you) in order to spin it as a mandatory cost of PS5 gaming, then you also have to factor in the cost of every free game you get each month with it. Not doing so is incredibly disingenuous.

 

[Senua]

There's no way to get the same equivalent free games on PC, was my point. They are not a like for like comparison and never will be. There's a lot of gamers that do not need either on a regular basis, so you can just opt out.

I may play online MP for like 1-2 months tops each year? So you can get a PS Plus sub for 1 or 3 months and pay a lot less than $80.

Yeah, it's a "disadvantage" compared to PC pricing structure, but PC pricing has its own issues to deal with for the cost of hardware itself.

"free games"

kek

 

[Gaiff]

If you're going to include any game with a MP component that require PS+ for $80/year (the most popular MP games don't as has been pointed out to you) in order to spin it as a mandatory cost of PS5 gaming, then you also have to factor in the cost of every free game you get each month with it. Not doing so is incredibly disingenuous.

Not saying it’s mandatory at all. I’m saying it’s not a 1 to 1 because multiplayer is a huge component for a lot of people. As for the "free game" you don’t keep them if you unsubscribe, so I’m uncertain what value we can attribute to them. You’re basically forced to pay the yearly fee forever. You also got tons of free games on PC you actually get to keep. Do we value them less because they’re not as good or more because you don’t have to keep paying a fee to play them?

 

[Topher]

Not saying it’s mandatory at all. I’m saying it’s not a 1 to 1 because multiplayer is a huge component for a lot of people. As for the "free game" you don’t keep them if you unsubscribe, so I’m uncertain what value we can attribute to them. You’re basically forced to pay the yearly fee forever. You also got tons of free games on PC you actually get to keep. Do we value them less because they’re not as good or more because you don’t have to keep paying a fee to play them?

I don't put much stock into the free game aspect of PS+ either. PS+ was introduced entirely as a game subscription service back in the PS3 days but the service really didn't do that well until paid online was incorporated with the PS4. If not for online, PS+ probably wouldn't still be a thing.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't put much stock into the free game aspect of PS+ either. PS+ was introduced entirely as a game subscription service back in the PS3 days but the service really didn't do that well until paid online was incorporated with the PS4. If not for online, PS+ probably wouldn't still be a thing.

There are just too many variables to make sensible comparisons. I also grow bored of them and will bow out of this thread. I wasn't even interested in comparing them and only took a slight interest in the online aspect, but this whole thing comparing the Pro against a $700 PC is beyond silly. It always devolves into stupid shit like, "but you got a DualSense" "but you don't have mods" but this, but that ad nauseam. It's just tedious. Just buy your system and STFU. I try not to partake in those discussions but always find myself indirectly dragged into them.

PS: No, you can't build a PC as powerful as a Pro for $700.

 

[Topher]

There are just too many variables to make sensible comparisons. I also grow bored of them and will bow out of this thread. I wasn't even interested in comparing them and only took a slight interest in the online aspect, but this whole thing comparing the Pro against a $700 PC is beyond silly. It always devolves into stupid shit like, "but you got a DualSense" "but you don't have mods" but this, but that ad nauseam. It's just tedious. Just buy your system and STFU. I try not to partake in those discussions but always find myself indirectly dragged into them.

PS: No, you can't build a PC as powerful as a Pro for $700.

Think I'll follow your lead and bow out myself. You are right. The comparisons are really absurd if you take a step back and look at it clearly.

 

[kevboard]

The travel is shorter but it's not a bonus at all. How can you suggest the basic digital button with useless travel on a Switch Pro is a bonus. It's just a shit button. one you can replicate easily on Dualsense or Xbox with trigger stops. You can even replicate it in software via the adaptive triggers on regular Dualsense and games like Fortnite have these features built in.

you can not replicate the trigger stops with the Dualsense adaptive triggers. those aren't designed to actually fully stop your press. Pretty sure you'd break something if it was used that way longterm while mashing really hard in heated combat

and again, I was only comparing non-premium controllers.

and one clear advantage that the (yes slightly mediocre) digital triggers of both the Joycons and Switch Pro controllers have is that their angle on a full press do not shift your grip in any noticeable way.

this is advantageous when using gyro aiming. the DualSense is not great for gyro aiming in competitive games because of the suboptimal ergonomics of the analog triggers. Basically, by depressing the triggers your controller will involuntarily be pushed upwards, and you can't do much about that while holding your controller with a normal grip.

You can get around that by either mapping fire to R1 or by using a full 6 finger grip similar to a claw grip.

this does not really happen on Switch as the triggers will not shift your controller upwards nearly as much

 

[King Dazzar]

Think I'll follow your lead and bow out myself. You are right. The comparisons are really absurd if you take a step back and look at it clearly.

I've thought this from the beginning: the only comparisons that are of real importance for me are between the base PS5 and the Pro. I'm buying a Pro to get a better PS5 experience, not to try and compete with any PC, be it low or high end. I have a PC for doing things I like to do on a PC and I have a PS5 (soon to be improved on Pro) for doing things I like to do on PS5.

 

[brenobnfm]

And it turns out that the "odd game here and there" is actually 40% of the list. For someone who's following the list, you sure didn't read it. Then you tried to handwave F2P titles, but it turns out they don't even make up most of the multiplayer games. The bottom line is that not only are you a massive hypocrite, but you're a goalpost mover who will always make spins when he gets presented with actual facts. Mental gymnastics on my part? Because I'm the one who went from "odd game here and there" to "20 games out of 67 don't matter" lmao. The biggest irony in all of this is that the most impressive Pro showcase is F1 24, a game that most will play online.

Highly intelligent fella, the discussion started because the other highly intelligent fella was forcing the "$80" price tag of the plus on the Pro cost, as if most of the audience care about this shit, why the fuck would you count free to play games that doesn't require Plus? I probably have a better PC than you and don't play multiplayer crap.

About the list, you're counting shit like Assassin's Creed Shadows that doesn't even have multiplayer AFIIK, games that no one knows, games where multiplayer are completely optional. The point is that the PS5 Pro is a machine optimized for the single player graphical heavy games and the Plus is absolutely not needed for most of the audience. If you wanna count the Empire of the Ants to inflate your list as if someone is going to play this crap just to think you got a bigger e-dick, suit yourself.

 

[twilo99]

You will wait a long time for the new GPUs to come down in price to less than the pro itself just for the card

The 7800xt replacement will likely launch at a very similar MSRP

 

[Topher]

I've thought this from the beginning: the only comparisons that are of real importance for me are between the base PS5 and the Pro. I'm buying a Pro to get a better PS5 experience, not to try and compete with any PC, be it low or high end. I have a PC for doing things I like to do on a PC and I have a PS5 (soon to be improved on Pro) for doing things I like to do on PS5.

The only real PC comparison I've had in my mind about PS5 Pro is DLSS. I've been saying for a while that if PSSR can do for PS what DLSS did for Nvidia GPUs then I'm all in. I enjoy both the PC and console experience for different reasons. Consoles for the physical discs that I can rent/resell as well as the trophy hunting. PC for advanced visuals, mod support and, of course, Steam. PS5 Pro ain't going to make me forget my PC, but I'm excited for it nonetheless.

 

[Gaiff]

Plus? I probably have a better PC than you

I doubt this. Around equal at best.

About the list, you're counting shit like Assassin's Creed Shadows that doesn't even have multiplayer AFIIK,

https://insider-gaming.com/exclusive-assassins-creed-shadows-co-op-mode/

games that no one knows, games where multiplayer are completely optional. The point is that the PS5 Pro is a machine optimized for the single player graphical heavy games and the Plus is absolutely not needed for most of the audience.

As evidence by the *checks lists* 40% of the titles being multiplayer. The Pro will enhance practically every game from this point forward, including a lot of mp ones.

If you wanna count the Empire of the Ants to inflate your list as if someone is going to play this crap just to think you got a bigger e-dick, suit yourself.

>Inflate your list
I didn’t make it up lmao. You said you were aware of it, but you were clearly not. Some of the biggest showpieces like GT7 and F1 2024 are huge multiplayer titles. Hell, they’re probably the ones that do the most on that list. Monster Hunter will be another huge one. Or do you think the improved shadows in Demon’s Souls or paltry addition of PSSR in TLOU is more important?

You downplay it for multiplayer games when it’ll still be a big deal there. Just say you were wrong and heavily underestimated what it does for mp games because they’ll also benefit immensely from the upgrade. I also said several times the multiplayer is not mandatory, just that it’s additional value and shouldn’t be discounted.

Anyway, I said I’d bow out of the thread and you’re clearly too angry and stubborn in the face of the truth, so have a good one.

 

[twilo99]

Sure a PS5 Pro is cheaper than a PC with similiar performance, but i can emulate games on PC and use it as a workstation with Photoshop, Zbrush etc. It's not only about gaming.

Yes, it’s an all round more powerful tool.

 

[brenobnfm]

I doubt this. Around equal at best.

https://insider-gaming.com/exclusive-assassins-creed-shadows-co-op-mode/

My friend, you're using a rumor about a post-launch feature, it may even happen, but the fact you're using free to play games, optional multiplayer modes and now damn rumors, yeah you better go indeed. And i realize multiplayer games are going to get enhanced, that was never my point, doesn't mean it's the focus of the console, you can see this by looking at the games Sony used to advertise it.

 

[twilo99]

What percentage of people who buy PlayStation or Xbox don’t pay for “online” ?

 

[DrDryRub]

It doesn't matter if a $700 PC can or cannot outperform a pro. PC offers 100x more than consoles do even at the low end of the spectrum. From sales, to games basically never dying, mods and everything else.

 

[brenobnfm]

From sales, to games basically never dying, mods and everything else.

Too bad they're all rent.

 

[twilo99]

It doesn't matter if a $700 PC can or cannot outperform a pro. PC offers 100x more than consoles do even at the low end of the spectrum. From sales, to games basically never dying, mods and everything else.

Games for PC (and 3rd party Xbox titles to a certain extent) are never optimized as well as they are on PlayStation, which is a negative for PC, that’s why people are claiming you need to build an extra powerful PC in order to compensate for the lack of optimization.

Now, what we need is for consoles to simply die so we can finally get the developers to start optimizing for PC hardware and we can actually see some “generational” leaps in fidelity, etc.

 

[Zathalus]

Too bad they're all rent.

Not that it really matters. I’ve been buying games on Steam for almost two decades and have lost nothing. Any publisher stupid enough to do so on a major scale will probably get shafted by the EU and even if they don’t, pirating still exists.

 

[brenobnfm]

Not that it really matters. I’ve been buying games on Steam for almost two decades and have lost nothing. Any publisher stupid enough to do so on a major scale will probably get shafted by the EU and even if they don’t, pirating still exists.

It absolutely matters, that's money you'll never see again, if you care or not is irrelevant. Good physical collections from past consoles on the other side are worth fortunes.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Now, what we need is for consoles to simply die so we can finally get the developers to start optimizing for PC hardware and we can actually see some “generational” leaps in fidelity, etc.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Games for PC (and 3rd party Xbox titles to a certain extent) are never optimized as well as they are on PlayStation, which is a negative for PC, that’s why people are claiming you need to build an extra powerful PC in order to compensate for the lack of optimization.

Now, what we need is for consoles to simply die so we can finally get the developers to start optimizing for PC hardware and we can actually see some “generational” leaps in fidelity, etc.

If consoles die AAA gaming as you know it dies lol 90% of mainstream gamers are not paying 2000$ for gpus and the funding for the big budget games will cease to exist you will be left with indies and 8k mobile games to play on your pc

 

[Zathalus]

It absolutely matters, that's money you'll never see again, if you care or not is irrelevant. Good physical collections from past consoles on the other side are worth fortunes.

I’m not going to worry over a hypothetical maybe that might never see the light of day. It’s been almost two decades already and I’ve lost nothing.

Living in Europe the EU is keeping a very close eye on digital goods and on the very (basically nonexistent) chance they won’t do anything I’ll just download a pirated copy of the game. I prefer my games on Steam but really don’t care if I have to torrent something.

 

[brenobnfm]

I’m not going to worry over a hypothetical maybe that might never see the light of day. It’s been almost two decades already and I’ve lost nothing.

Living in Europe the EU is keeping a very close eye on digital goods and on the very (basically nonexistent) chance they won’t do anything I’ll just download a pirated copy of the game. I prefer my games on Steam but really don’t care if I have to torrent something.

That has nothing to do with what i said, it's a bad financial decision but alright, if you're happy you're happy.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

The only real PC comparison I've had in my mind about PS5 Pro is DLSS. I've been saying for a while that if PSSR can do for PS what DLSS did for Nvidia GPUs then I'm all in. I enjoy both the PC and console experience for different reasons. Consoles for the physical discs that I can rent/resell as well as the trophy hunting. PC for advanced visuals, mod support and, of course, Steam. PS5 Pro ain't going to make me forget my PC, but I'm excited for it nonetheless.

Honestly, the only reason I wanted to see PSSR compared to DLSS was for academic reasons to see where it stand and how it'll improve in the future but as usual fanboys have highjacked the conversation, this should be a celebration DLSS have been awesome for years and finally console only players (millions of us) like me can finally experience something like it.

 

[Zathalus]

That has nothing to do with what i said, it's a bad financial decision but alright, if you're happy you're happy.

A bad financial decision is buying dirt cheap digital games that I’ve lost exactly none of and can easily replace for free?

 

[brenobnfm]

A bad financial decision is buying dirt cheap digital games that I’ve lost exactly none of and can easily replace for free?

You only play ancient shit? You're not paying dirt cheap for AAA current gen games if you're on the legal side, and if you're not playing new games, this thread isn't for you.

 

[Zathalus]

You only play ancient shit? You're not paying dirt cheap for AAA current gen games if you're on the legal side, and if you're not playing new games, this thread isn't for you.

No, I don’t only play ancient games, but then again I don’t buy every single game as they release either. Just this week a bunch of games have released that I want to play but my time is limited so I’ve only picked up Metaphor for €50 and will then eventually pick up the others when I have time and they will usually be 30-50% off. Metaphor by itself will probably take me several weeks to get through.

 

[Topher]

Honestly, the only reason I wanted to see PSSR compared to DLSS was for academic reasons to see where it stand and how it'll improve in the future but as usual fanboys have highjacked the conversation, this should be a celebration DLSS have been awesome for years and finally console only players (millions of us) like me can finally experience something like it.

Yeah, probably need a non-platform war OT, at this point, to discuss news about Pro testing prior to launch for those of us who are tired of this silly PC vs Pro debate.

 

[Esppiral]

Second option, I don’t use physical media

I was pleasantly surprised I wasn’t forced to buy a disc drive

Are you also pleased having to pay the Draconian PSN prices for games with no other option to buy waaay cheaper ? Lol

 

[Gaiff]

Yeah, probably need a non-platform war OT, at this point, to discuss news about Pro testing prior to launch for those of us who are tired of this silly PC vs Pro debate.

How long before warriors invade it and turn it into another battleground? I'm all for it, but I doubt it manages to stay civil for more than a few replies.

 

[reinking]

How long before warriors invade it and turn it into another battleground? I'm all for it, but I doubt it manages to stay civil for more than a few replies.

 

[brenobnfm]

No, I don’t only play ancient games, but then again I don’t buy every single game as they release either. Just this week a bunch of games have released that I want to play but my time is limited so I’ve only picked up Metaphor for €50 and will then eventually pick up the others when I have time and they will usually be 30-50% off. Metaphor by itself will probably take me several weeks to get through.

Then you're not paying dirt cheap for digital rent, it's not that you won't lose these games, they were never yours. But again, it's your money, if you're happy who cares.

 

[Ronin_7]

Those PCs builds just keep getting worse.

 

[amigastar]

It doesn't matter if a $700 PC can or cannot outperform a pro. PC offers 100x more than consoles do even at the low end of the spectrum. From sales, to games basically never dying, mods and everything else.

So true, the value you get from a PC is equivalent to Consoles, you get more out of it: Mods, Sales etc. like you said.

 

[Topher]

How long before warriors invade it and turn it into another battleground? I'm all for it, but I doubt it manages to stay civil for more than a few replies.

From my perspective, OTs are generally threads for those genuinely interested in discussing the topic, not warring. That works both ways. In my mind, a PS5 Pro thread wouldn't be a "trash PCMR" safe space either. But it is ultimately up to the mods to decide if folks are going too far either way.

 

[XXL]

Yeah, probably need a non-platform war OT, at this point, to discuss news about Pro testing prior to launch for those of us who are tired of this silly PC vs Pro debate.

Yeah, that won't work.....you can't censor people talking about it....just let the debate happen, things will get worked out.

I agree with your current post about OTs though.

 

[Zathalus]

Then you're not paying dirt cheap for digital rent, it's not that you won't lose these games, they were never yours. But again, it's your money, if you're happy who cares.

Yes, I know I’m only paying for a digital license, but there has been zero impact to me because of this. And replacing any of my games is free and easy. “Never yours” doesn’t really matter if the end result, namely the ability to play a game, is the same.

This fearmongering about digital PC games is silly. Sure there is a remote possibility that some of my games can get revoked a decade or two from now, just as there is a remote possibility that if everything was physical my house could burn down taking my collection with it.

I suppose I can see the downsides for a digital console game, being locked down to specific hardware and a single storefront with zero options to recover removed games would suck, but luckily none of that applies to PC.

 

[Topher]

Yeah, that won't work.....you can't censor people talking about it....just let the debate happen, things will get worked out.

I agree with your current post about OTs though.

Not sure I follow. Folks get "censored" talking about stuff all the time here. I'm talking about outright trolls who have no real interest in the subject of the OT.

 

[Kamina]

How is this thread still going on?

 

[brenobnfm]

Yes, I know I’m only paying for a digital license, but there has been zero impact to me because of this. And replacing any of my games is free and easy. “Never yours” doesn’t really matter if the end result, namely the ability to play a game, is the same.

Again, you lost money, you changed money for something worthless (a digital license), had you changed for a physical disc, you have something that will serve the same purpose and still retain value, it can even appreciate. You not caring is irrelevant, but you're factually wrong when you say the end result is the same lol

 

[Topher]

How is this thread still going on?

Because one guy keeps coming back to bump it...

 

[HogIsland]

Again, you lost money, you changed money for something worthless (a digital license), had you changed for a physical disc, you have something that will serve the same purpose and still retain value, it can even appreciate. You not caring is irrelevant, but you're factually wrong when you say the end result is the same lol

so you agree the ps5 pro costs at least $780 then?

 

[Bojji]

so you agree the ps5 pro costs at least $780 then?

Or 900 Euro in Europe, damn...

For me console without disc drive is worthless.

 

[Topher]

edit....nah....nevermind. not going down this rabbit hole again

 

[Zathalus]

Again, you lost money, you changed money for something worthless (a digital license), had you changed for a physical disc, you have something that will serve the same purpose and still retain value, it can even appreciate. You not caring is irrelevant, but you're factually wrong when you say the end result is the same lol

Why would I (or the majority of gamers for that matter) care about the physical value of games?

But sure, if hoarding games for a hypothetical future gain is that important then I can see why PC would be a negative. Or if you’re one of those that play and sell games as soon as you’re done.

 

[brenobnfm]

Why would I (or the majority of gamers for that matter) care about the physical value of games?

But sure, if hoarding games for a hypothetical future gain is that important then I can see why PC would be a negative. Or if you’re one of those that play and sell games as soon as you’re done.

Because you're losing money? It's a deliberate choice, i do it too, especially if the game doesn't have a good console version or is better played with mouse and keyboard, but it's lost money regardless. Well, as others are saying, this got repetitive, you're satisfied with your approach, enjoy.

 

[Zathalus]

Because you're losing money? It's a deliberate choice, i do it too, especially if the game doesn't have a good console version or is better played with mouse and keyboard, but it's lost money regardless. Well, as others are saying, this got repetitive, you're satisfied with your approach, enjoy.

I’ve not lost any money. I can still play every game I have ever paid for on PC. You’re arguing a remote hypothetical as if it’s a fact that already happened.

Feel free to quote and respond with a told you so when it actually happens.

 

[phant0m]

How is this thread still going on?

Warriors can't help themselves.

Though I do find it amusing that Pro-PC pivoted real quick from "we can build a pc for that price that runs games just as well/better" to "performance per $ doesn't matter, I can run any x86 game from the last 20 years and you can't"

 

[Metnut]

I’ll save you all 500 posts

TLDR: No