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[Jadedx]

Yes, it's easy.

.

 

[krypt0nian]

I ignored the entire Wii generation, so yes.

Hopefully their return to the core talk is real and I can enjoy a Nintendo console again with the U.

 

[Le-mo]

I've been ignoring Nintendo games since the PS1 days. I have NEVER beaten a Nintendo game and have never played Zelda, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Kid Icarus and all those other well known Nintendo franchises except for Pokemon and SSB. I don't hate Nintendo I just never got around to playing their games.

 

[Boney]

Kid Icarus.

I'm so tired of them milking this franchise ;P

 

[Christine]

Okay, just so it's clear, Speevy thinks that people who only play Madden or only play Cartoon Network games are gaming enthusiasts.

This is all so inanely futile and unnecessary. Intergroup bias is only human--it's natural to want to define some sort of line that excludes outsiders from the in-group with which you identify.

What you're resolutely failing to grasp is that this in-group is not defined by curriculum, experience, or knowledge. "Videogames" is a broad enough array of amusements and there's enough variation in taste that any two people may have zero touchstone experiences in common yet still have the ability to identify each other as belonging.

In short, anyone with a genuine interest in the hobby--even if that interest is exclusive to a narrow subset of games--is an enthusiast gamer. They've got more in common with you on this point than either of you have with the out-group. That's really all there is to it.

You can generally take people at their word as to whether or not they ought to be included in the group of "enthusiast gamers", because the out-group has no interest in identifying with that label. Especially here, on NeoGAF, an enthusiast gamer haven. That's unless you're actually worried that we're being infiltrated by ze casuals.

 

[Sipowicz]

yeah, but why would you want to?

they excel in a lot of areas. games like mario galaxy and mario kart are the best in their genre. games like punch out are not only unique but also amazing

I ignored the entire Wii generation, so yes.

Hopefully their return to the core talk is real and I can enjoy a Nintendo console again with the U.

you ignored their best generation in a while. in terms of console exclusives they were unsurpassed this gen

the wii u looks and sounds rubbish. it is doomed to failure just like the gamecube was

 

[Nintendork22]

This is all so inanely futile and unnecessary. Intergroup bias is only human--it's natural to want to define some sort of line that excludes outsiders from the in-group with which you identify.

What you're resolutely failing to grasp is that this in-group is not defined by curriculum, experience, or knowledge. "Videogames" is a broad enough array of amusements and there's enough variation in taste that any two people may have zero touchstone experiences in common yet still have the ability to identify each other as belonging.

In short, anyone with a genuine interest in the hobby--even if that interest is exclusive to a narrow subset of games--is an enthusiast gamer. They've got more in common with you on this point than either of you have with the out-group. That's really all there is to it.

You can generally take people at their word as to whether or not they ought to be included in the group of "enthusiast gamers", because the out-group has no interest in identifying with that label. Especially here, on NeoGAF, an enthusiast gamer haven. That's unless you're actually worried that we're being infiltrated by ze casuals.

I appreciate your productive conversation, but I do respectfully disagree. Why do you see line drawing or categorizing as an inherently bad thing? Would the human species be better off if nothing was ever categorized or grouped? I have never understood the perception that humanity's desire to categorize and distinguish among groups and sets is an evil remnant of our barbaric roots. Would humanity be better off if books weren't categorized, biological taxonomies didn't exist, and everyone got the same diploma (Because remember, according to most of the posters in this thread, everyone's opinion on every subject is just as valuable as everyone's else's)?

 

[frequency]

yeah, but why would you want to?

they excel in a lot of areas. games like mario galaxy and mario kart are the best in their genre. games like punch out are not only unique but also amazing



you ignored their best generation in a while. in terms of console exclusives they were unsurpassed this gen

the wii u looks and sounds rubbish. it is doomed to failure just like the gamecube was

Probably just my tastes are weird but... the only Nintendo games I really liked on the Wii were Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. I felt this was one of their weaker console generations... I got more out of my GameCube than my Wii at least.

To be clear, I didn't "ignore" Nintendo games. I just found the majority of them unappealing. If that means I'm not a "proper gamer", then... uh... I don't care?

I like how people are always looking for ways to say they're more qualified or are better than me though.

 

[Nightstick11]

Not playing Nintendo games is like not playing PC games; I guess you're a "gamer" if you play no Nintendo or PC games, but everybody knows you're really not.

Also, your opinions on anything gaming-related are automatically subject to ridicule. A true gamer cannot live without PC games or Nintendo games.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

So?

I wonder if you're worried about being judged by gamers or worried you won't be able to do the judging.

Beautifully put.

 

[Apoc87]

Gamers can play whatever the hell they want.

People might get touchy about this, but I think the term "Gamer" is pretty broad. If you play video games, you are a gamer. This includes WiiFitMoms and Kinectimal babies.

Maybe not iOS junkies. They don't count.

 

[semiconscious]

can a proper gamer ignore motion control? because that's more or less what i've ended up doing...

 

[Deleted member 81567]

By not getting a Wii I realize I'm missing out on some good exclusives but I can always borrow one from a friend and buy that exclusive if I'm dying to play it. It's really not worth it and WiiU does look it'll update the Wii but still be inferior compared to the 360 and PS3.

 

[krypt0nian]

you ignored their best generation in a while. in terms of console exclusives they were unsurpassed this gen

the wii u looks and sounds rubbish. it is doomed to failure just like the gamecube was

Good god no. Gamecube was the last worthwhile Nintendo home console IMO.

 

[Raitosaito]

Hopefully their return to the core talk is real and I can enjoy a Nintendo console again with the U.

They never loss their core audience to begin with because they are still cranking out those franchises, so technically if you weren't a Ninetendo console fan before you are not going to be one now. Also they never had any real good third party support, so I think if anything Nintendo would be gaining a new audience. (Though unlikely anyone will jump ship from PS3 and Xbox to the WiiU.)

 

[Sennorin]

Good god no. Gamecube was the last worthwhile Nintendo home console IMO.

I see, this thread hasn´t become better since yesterday.

 

[krypt0nian]

They never loss their core audience to begin with because they are still cranking out those franchises, so technically if you weren't a Ninetendo console fan before you are not going to be one now. Also they never had any real good third party support, so I think if anything Nintendo would be gaining a new audience. (Though unlikely anyone will jump ship from PS3 and Xbox to the WiiU.)

They lost plenty of their core audience, even Nintendo knows this now. And I was a HUGE Nintendo fan up and through the GC. The franchise versions they cranked out this gen were in my eyes subpar. Plenty disagree but it's my opinion that matters when I'm spending the dollars.

This gen was me sighing at first, then kinda smirking from the corner as they sold tons to casuals and went further and further into a space I had no connection to.

I see, this thread hasn´t become better since yesterday.

Yes, people still disagree on the internet. Thread's fine.

 

[Sipowicz]

Good god no. Gamecube was the last worthwhile Nintendo home console IMO.

fuck no

ignoring wiiware and the fact the wii plays gamecube games (while the purple handbag plays nothing but) the wii was much better

mario back to his best in 3D form. a 2d four player mario. 2 wildly different zelda games. 2 wildly different metroid games. the resurrection of donkey kong country , warioland and punchout. 3 RPGS (at least one of which i know is excellent)

that's just first party stuff. the wii also got a bunch of exclusives from third parties. the gamecube got worse versions of of PC/PS2/Xbox games just like the Wii U will

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Wii U restriction of one controller per system makes me hate the platform, but I'll be forced to buy one as soon as Nintendo releases a new Zelda, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Pokémon... and yeah. I wish I could, but I can't.

 

[Raitosaito]

They lost plenty of their core audience, even Nintendo knows this now. And I was a HUGE Nintendo fan up and through the GC. The franchise versions they cranked out this gen were in my eyes subpar. Plenty disagree but it's my opinion that matters when I'm spending the dollars.

This gen was me sighing at first, then kinda smirking from the corner as they sold tons to casuals and went further and further into a space I had no connection to.

Sales number from DK, Mario Galaxy 2, and Kirby Epic Yarn all seem to suggest Nintendo is still peddling to their core audience what they want. And if they did lose anyone, I think they are ok with the profit margins for those games.

Nintendo wants an audience they never had with this WiiU thing.

 

[AntiTout]

Let my state upfront that I am a Nintendo fan.

At the beginning of this generation, I knew it would be important to have a system other than the Wii to experience all that this generation had to offer. I am a gamer first, and a Nintendo fan second. So I bought a PS3. I have played a wide variety of titles for the Wii, DS, PS3, and PC. A 360 would have been great as well, I just decided to go with the PS3. This topic is not to discuss the merits of PSWii vs. Wii60.

I have found that owning one of the HD twins and a Wii (also DS) affords me a variety of gaming experiences. I love running around in Super Mario Galaxy just as much as hunting splicers in Bioshock. I enjoy questing in Fallout 3 for an hour, and then joining friends for a few rounds of Brawl.

I believe games on Nintendo systems and games not found on Nintendo systems are both important for any well rounded gamer to play. While I think the majority would agree with me that a Nintendo fan should play non-Nintendo games, I don't know that many consider playing Nintendo games a prerequisite for being a seasoned gamer. What say you Gaf, can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo games? Or should gamers be expected to play Nintendo games?

If you experienced any Mario or Zelda game before the Wii, you don't need a Wii.

 

[Christine]

I appreciate your productive conversation, but I do respectfully disagree. Why do you see line drawing or categorizing as an inherently bad thing? Would the human species be better off if nothing was ever categorized or grouped? I have never understood the perception that humanity's desire to categorize and distinguish among groups and sets is an evil remnant of our barbaric roots. Would humanity be better off if books weren't categorized, biological taxonomies didn't exist, and everyone got the same diploma?

That's not even close to what I said.

What I said was, the criteria you are attempting to apply are not the relevant ones with respect to the social grouping you are trying to define.

For example, I have one brother who is an enthusiast gamer, and two who are not. They all play games, they've all played a fairly wide variety of games. The two who are not "gamers" might actually play more games than me or the other enthusiast. But for them it's just an activity--they're not really interested in talking about games, they don't self-identify as gamers, and they don't get excited about console launches or hyped for upcoming games.

It's so much more about topic interest and self-identification than it is about having experienced a particular curriculum. You're approaching this from one of the most useless of all possible angles.

(Because remember, according to most of the posters in this thread, everyone's opinion on every subject is just as valuable as everyone's else's)

This is a laughably bad misreading of the response you've gotten.

 

[Roto13]

If you experienced any Mario or Zelda game before the Wii, you don't need a Wii.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[ctrayne]

Never been heavily into Nintendo stuff, but I don't have a problem with them. From my perspective, a lot of their games feel like they are meant for children. I don't mean that in a bad way, I literally mean things like Mario, Star Fox, Pokemon, etc. appear to be made to appeal to younger gamers. Bold color work, fair challenges, clearly defined mechanics, kid-safe language and violence, solid and bug-free coding - all really good things for the demographic. I certainly loved playing Mario 3 back on the NES.

Since I am not a part of that demographic any more, though, I don't really click with most of Ninty's output. I do respect it for what it is - quality, if easily-digestible and commercially oriented software. I feel the same way about it that I do Ninja Turtles and elementary school - a fun part of my youth; a nice memory.

By that, I mean that it unsettles me when full-grown men rant on and on about how this season of Pokemon was better than that, or rattle off a collection of factoids about some obscure variation of monster. To be clear: I'm not trying to belittle every person who ever played a Pokemon game, but I am saying some people need to keep the excitement in their pants or risk looking like a giant man-child, which IMO is incredibly unflattering. And in all fairness, that same ranting is really no better when it's about *any* game.

Balance in everything, you know?

EDIT: I do want to get into the Fire Emblem titles, if for no reason other than it looks like a great, solid strategy series.

 

[RobertM]

I'd argue that someone who plays Madden competitively is certainly a gaming enthusiast. It even has its own annual celebrity tournament.

I call them "Selective Hardcore". They are not as much as gaming enthusiasts as we are, but they dedicate a lot of time on a very narrow selection of titles; usually those titles are fairly mainstream. They don't invest as much money, time, or interest.

 

[tzare]

the only nintendo ip that appeals to me unless they bring MK back to its roots, is Advance Wars. So yes. Nintendo has been almost irrelevant for me these last years.

 

[Caelus]

Never been heavily into Nintendo stuff, but I don't have a problem with them. From my perspective, a lot of their games feel like they are meant for children. I don't mean that in a bad way, I literally mean things like Mario, Star Fox, Pokemon, etc. appear to be made to appeal to younger gamers. Bold color work, fair challenges, clearly defined mechanics, kid-safe language and violence, solid and bug-free coding - all really good things for the demographic. I certainly loved playing Mario 3 back on the NES.

Nintendo games are kid-friendly, but I'm pretty sure they can be enjoyed by everyone. To me, video games seem to be meant for kids.

To me, it's like Pixar. To a sense.

 

[tiff]

(Because remember, according to most of the posters in this thread, everyone's opinion on every subject is just as valuable as everyone's else's)?

I don't even know how to respond to this. No one people aren't taking this thread seriously.

You're comparing a person having played Super Mario lending credence to his or her opinion on other games to a person having attended medical school lending credence to his or her opinion on matters dealing with medicine. That's patently absurd.

 

[zon]

If you have the interest, and the economic means to satisfy that interest, I don't see any reason not to get a Wii. Money has been tight for me, and most games on the Wii has not piqued my interest, so I have not bought one yet. Maybe I'll get their HD console in the future. If I have the money.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Don't be ridiculous.

Mario I'll give you, but he's spot on about Zelda.

 

[eXistor]

You simply can't call yourself a gamer (if you'd ever want to do that anyway) and not play Nintendo. It's like saying you love movies but haven't seen any of Spielberg's classics.

 

[MYE]

fuck no

ignoring wiiware and the fact the wii plays gamecube games (while the purple handbag plays nothing but) the wii was much better

mario back to his best in both 3D form. a 2d foru player mario. 2 wildly different zelda games. 2 wildry different metroid games. the resurrection of donkey kong country , warioland and punchout. 3 RPGS (at least one of which i know is excellent)

that's just first party stuff. the wii also got a bunch of exclusives from third parties. the gamecube got worse versions of of PC/PS2/Xbox games just like the Wii U will

*high five*

 

[Nocturnowl]

If i've discovered one thing from this topic it's that to a fair amount of people Nintendo=Mario and Zelda

 

[Sennorin]

Mario I'll give you, but he's spot on about Zelda.

Because Skyward Sword is the same as every Zelda before? (Setting aside the false assumption that previous Zelda-games have been the same)

 

[Roto13]

Mario I'll give you, but he's spot on about Zelda.

Twilight Princess is like one particular Zelda game. Skyward Sword is not.

People who squeal "OMG STAGNATING" about Zelda have only played Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.

 

[Christine]

If i've discovered one thing from this topic it's that to a fair amount of people Nintendo=Mario and Zelda

It's a pretty predictable bias towards the assumption of homogeneity, and hardly exclusive to Nintendo's offerings. It comes from the exact same place as when people talk about "Brown Military FPS #214".

 

[Alrus]

Mario I'll give you, but he's spot on about Zelda.

Skyward Sword looks much more promising than TP (which I think is awesome anyway) and Wind Waker.

And Considering the Mainline franchises of nintendo are rarely part of one single story (opposite to, say, Metal Gear and other story heavy games), they don't really suffer from too much sequel that could make the story a jumbled mess.

 

[SuperMarioFan462]

I can see how people who grew up too late to enjoy the N64 or previous Nintendo systems could pass up new Nintendo games. Younger gamers seem to go for shooters but we can't blame them, most next gen HD games are better than old nostalgic classics.

 

[Nocturnowl]

It's a pretty predictable bias towards the assumption of homogeneity, and hardly exclusive to Nintendo's offerings. It comes from the exact same place as when people talk about "Brown Military FPS #214".

I actually consulted a dictionary for the meaning of "homogeneity", in all seriousness I like learning new words, very well applied.

 

[Muffdraul]

I'm at a loss to explain how any PROPA GAMA could disregard any of the major consoles and their respective KILLA APS.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Yes. It's easy. They just don't make shit that appeals to me.

 

[Kai Dracon]

fuck no

ignoring wiiware and the fact the wii plays gamecube games (while the purple handbag plays nothing but) the wii was much better

mario back to his best in both 3D form. a 2d foru player mario. 2 wildly different zelda games. 2 wildry different metroid games. the resurrection of donkey kong country , warioland and punchout. 3 RPGS (at least one of which i know is excellent)

that's just first party stuff. the wii also got a bunch of exclusives from third parties. the gamecube got worse versions of of PC/PS2/Xbox games just like the Wii U will

If the Gamecube didn't have Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX and the GC version of Twilight Princess it would be a holocaust by Nintendo standards of software quality.

Almost every game on the Cube suffered from what appeared to be low budget and short dev time, lacking content, polish, or both. It's been amazing to see the Cube retconnned as a high point for Nintendo purely to deny that the Wii is any good at all. That's the power of sour grapes!

No matter what anyone thinks of the Wii, fact is it got:

Best Zelda since Ocarina
Possibly best 3D Zelda coming up
Best 3D Mario twice over
Return of 2D Mario in nearly top form
3rd Metroid Prime installment
Great, experimental Metroid title (screw Other M hate fanatics)
Amazing Metroid Prime trilogy with superior control interface for older games
One of the best Fire Emblem games
Best Mario Kart game since the original SNES (again, sorry haters)
Epic size Smash Bros game (haters, rewind plz)
Punch Out!!
Strikers Charged, an amazing Mario sports title
A 2D Wario platformer animated by a freakin' A-list anime studio
Super Paper Mario, great game if you accept it isn't RPG
Two great Kirby platformers
A obscure game called Donkey Kong Country
2 epic traditional RPGs that will see English versions one way or another

It's not a clean win, because Wii didn't get the Pikmin game it deserved, and we didn't get a new F-Zero or Starfox shooter, which were huge missed opportunities.

If one claims to be a "Nintendo fan" but denies the quality of the core oriented games on the Wii compared to the Gamecube or (lol) the N64... it's a claim that's hard to chalk up to anything but pique against the Wii and the image of "that shitty motion control sell out piece of junk".

The harsh truth is that the Wii got more Nintendo core support at an average higher level of quality than anything since the SNES. A strawman argument against the Wii is usually based around how unevenly distributed that support is. Nintendo front loaded the Wii with a lot of major core oriented games, then let it die for almost 2 years, then splurged again in 2010 with four major core games one after the other.

It's easy to bitch about Nintendo and say "oh they so shit this gen they did nothin' good", with the Wii nearly dead again in 2011, and NoA angering fans by passing on several key titles - including the incomprehensible abandonment of their only core oriented Motion+ action game!

Objectively however, with angry fan redeye drained away, the Wii was Nintendo's strongest console for first party games since the Super Nintendo. Its image is merely tarnished by the mistakes Nintendo has made, which are not insignificant.

Edit: added to that, the excluded factor is that the Wii's 3rd party support was generally laughable and insulting even compared to the Gamecube. That reduces its gleam a lot more, having nothing to do with first party games. One can look back on the Cube with a general hazy memory of "lots of games"... but many of those come from major 3rd party releases like Capcom's stuff. Even Capcom mostly abandoned Nintendo, this gen.

 

[googleplex]

yeah, but why would you want to?

they excel in a lot of areas. games like mario galaxy and mario kart are the best in their genre. games like punch out are not only unique but also amazing



you ignored their best generation in a while. in terms of console exclusives they were unsurpassed this gen

Lol wat.....

 

[Caelus]

Younger gamers seem to go for shooters but we can't blame them, most next gen HD games are better than old nostalgic classics.

Hey, I'm 13. My first game was Grand Theft Auto, my second game was Halo. Compared to the likes of games such as Paper Mario and Twilight Princess I didn't have nearly as much fun. I don't care about HD because it's a resolution, and shooters bore me unless they're third person or something completely fun and different from the "usual FPS".

Lol wat.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain the post above yours clarifies this.

 

[Gravijah]

I call them "Selective Hardcore". They are not as much as gaming enthusiasts as we are, but they dedicate a lot of time on a very narrow selection of titles; usually those titles are fairly mainstream. They don't invest as much money, time, or interest.

So, people like Justin Wong would fall under this "Selective Hardcore" label?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I can see how people who grew up too late to enjoy the N64 or previous Nintendo systems could pass up new Nintendo games. Younger gamers seem to go for shooters but we can't blame them, most next gen HD games are better than old nostalgic classics.

I started gaming with the Intellivision and have owned every Nintendo system except the 3DS and I've bought less Nintendo games this gen than I ever have in any generation.

 

[Sennorin]

If the Gamecube didn't have Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX and the GC version of Twilight Princess it would be a holocaust by Nintendo standards of software quality.

Almost every game on the Cube suffered from what appeared to be low budget and short dev time, lacking content, polish, or both. It's been amazing to see the Cube retconnned as a high point for Nintendo purely to deny that the Wii is any good at all. That's the power of sour grapes!

No matter what anyone thinks of the Wii, fact is it got:

Best Zelda since Ocarina
Possibly best 3D Zelda coming up
Best 3D Mario twice over
Return of 2D Mario in nearly top form
3rd Metroid Prime installment
Great, experimental Metroid title (screw Other M hate fanatics)
Amazing Metroid Prime trilogy with superior control interface for older games
One of the best Fire Emblem games
Best Mario Kart game since the original SNES (again, sorry haters)
Epic size Smash Bros game (haters, rewind plz)
Punch Out!!
Strikers Charged, an amazing Mario sports title
A 2D Wario platformer animated by a freakin' A-list anime studio
Super Paper Mario, great game if you accept it isn't RPG
Two great Kirby platformers
A obscure game called Donkey Kong Country
2 epic traditional RPGs that will see English versions one way or another

It's not a clean win, because Wii didn't get the Pikmin game it deserved, and we didn't get a new F-Zero or Starfox shooter, which were huge missed opportunities.

If one claims to be a "Nintendo fan" but denies the quality of the core oriented games on the Wii compared to the Gamecube or (lol) the N64... it's a claim that's hard to chalk up to anything but pique against the Wii and the image of "that shitty motion control sell out piece of junk".

The harsh truth is that the Wii got more Nintendo core support at an average higher level of quality than anything since the SNES. A strawman argument against the Wii is usually based around how unevenly distributed that support is. Nintendo front loaded the Wii with a lot of major core oriented games, then let it die for almost 2 years, then splurged again in 2010 with four major core games one after the other.

It's easy to bitch about Nintendo and say "oh they so shit this gen they did nothin' good", with the Wii nearly dead again in 2011, and NoA angering fans by passing on several key titles - including the incomprehensible abandonment of their only core oriented Motion+ action game!

Objectively however, with angry fan redeye drained away, the Wii was Nintendo's strongest console for first party games since the Super Nintendo. Its image is merely tarnished by the mistakes Nintendo has made, which are not insignificant.

Edit: added to that, the excluded factor is that the Wii's 3rd party support was generally laughable and insulting even compared to the Gamecube. That reduces its gleam a lot more, having nothing to do with first party games. One can look back on the Cube with a general hazy memory of "lots of games"... but many of those come from major 3rd party releases like Capcom's stuff. Even Capcom mostly abandoned Nintendo, this gen.

quote for a new page. And agreed, good posting.

 

[Boney]

Lol wat.....

In terms of exclusives? Sure why not, and if not it shouldn't be far behind. If they're really worthwhile, that depends on the person, talking about the good-decent games here, not pure crap.

It missed out on 99.99% of multiplatform games though.

 

[ctrayne]

Nintendo games are kid-friendly, but I'm pretty sure they can be enjoyed by everyone. To me, video games seem to be meant for kids.

To me, it's like Pixar. To a sense.

Understandable, and I respect that. As I was saying, the only part that grates on my nerves are the aforementioned man-children that break into a sweat when they hear the Pokemon theme song.

Also, I despise Pixar films. I know, heretic!

 

[Caelus]

Understandable, and I respect that. The only part that grates on my nerves are the aforementioned man-children that break into a sweat when they hear the Pokemon theme song.

Also, I despise Pixar films. I know, heretic!

That's more or less a part of their childhood, to me the Pokemon show means nothing. It's just a form of marketing towards children, and to be honest Pokemon is a franchise that has some really complicated problems with its fans. You shouldn't feel frightened by them or anything, ha.

I don't really care if you despise them, but I can see your line of thinking now.