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[Buddha Beam]

And guess what, it is!

Being elitist isn't really a bad thing, though. Thats just what conservatives have taught us to think. With regards to our discussion, it simply means that a person is more qualified to discuss a certain subject than others since they can do so with some measure of authority.. even if its over shit as trivial and inconsequential as video games.

 

[outunderthestars]

I seriously did not want this to turn into a troll fest. For example, is the opinion of a 12 year old kid who has only played games on his PS3 as valid as the opinion of an adult who has played games on multiple systems for the last 20 years?

Yes. Yes it is. All opinions are valid. You don't get to be the judge of that.

 

[dani_dc]

Nintendo does some of the best games on the industry, even if it's "just" 1~2 per generation that's more than the majority of developers can brag about. Not only that but they tend to create games of major impact and importance for the industry (like it or not Wii Sports was a rather inovative and unique title that was important to open the way to motion controls).

So I think a gamer is missing out by not giving Nintendo games a fair chance. With that said that applies to any gamer that ignores other high quality developers, still people have tastes, as well as limitations of money and time so it's only natural some gamers will miss on then.

Now actively avoiding them is something that makes no sense to me to someone that enjoys games.

Because I don't feel like each iteration is different enough, and I'm tired of the gameplay formula in most of their games. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if their games weren't 100% focused on gameplay and nothing else, but since they are it's a big problem to ignore. Like I'm not fond of Uncharted's gameplay but I look forward to the next one because of the story and the voice acting/animation.

This is not to say I haven't tried anything. I did help buy a Wii for my mother which ended up being used by me the most when I would borrow a game or two from friends, but by the ignore part of the topic I took that to mean not buying a system or games for yourself which I haven't for the better part of a decade.

Fair enough, I was thinking more of actively ignoring Nintendo games which I get the impressions isn't that off an occurence around gaffers. My bad.

 

[Slime]

Nintendo make great games, and gamers who care about the medium should play as many great games as they can. 'Nuff said.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Perhaps you should consider doing some research before making silly posts that make you look silly.

Maybe you can just enlighten us then

 

[RCizzle65]

I certainly wouldn't dismiss anyone if they haven't played or liked a Nintendo game, but I think it's hard to find someone that hasn't played at least one in their life if they game at least a bit. Even the young teenagers that think playing M games makes them more mature have to have played a Nintendo console at some point in their life.

 

[pieatorium]

Have other developers? Developers that had successfully running franchises and expanded on top of these?

Valve

 

[Dark Schala]

I said "pretty much gotten a taste of what they're all like" because I'm not talking about niggling details like z-targeting or gyro-aiming, M+, or a "new quirk", and I said with "a lot of nintendo franchises" - obviously a 2D game isn't going to be the exact same gameplay as a 3D one. And I think this is obvious to people who play them (that they might still like the 3D one if they don't like a 2D one) so it's not necessary to dwell on this point.

But WW, MM, OoT, TP... there's a very strong sense of why this is a Zelda game for each of them. They have many elements in common. People didn't like MM because of the time mechanic, and if that's what you dislike, then you know the other games don't have it. If you disliked it for the Zelda formula though, well then you probably won't like the others.

Etc.

Point taken. I did say that I understood your perspective and then relayed mine. I have no beef with it. It's cool.

You're not a TRU gamer unless you have heard the sweet sounds of Commodore 64 music.

Toys 'R' Us Gamer?

Naw, I disagree--Magnavox Odyssey. You've gotta start from there.

 

[outunderthestars]

Have other developers? Developers that had successfully running franchises and expanded on top of these?

.

Rockstar.

 

[Poimandres]

Hmm the differences between Bioshock and Infinite are the same as the differences between each new Zelda. New setting, new story, new art/graphics, new mechanics (Zelda has flying, Bioshock has Sky-Line Rails), similar mechanics(Zelda has new items and puzzles Bioshock has new powers and shooting). If you think the difference between Bioshock and Infinite is bigger than Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword you are very wrong.

A new player character is a pretty big difference. Will there ever be a Zelda game where you're not playing as Link?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

They are however just as "same" as a Nintendo sequel

Yet somehow they get away with it while Nintendo doesn't.

The comment you quoted said the games had tacked on motion controlss which is a valid concern on why some gamers would be turned off from these games. The "same" was only half the post you quoted.

Want to see how Ninteno games are the same? Look no further than the Animal Crossing series over the different systems..

 

[kliklik]

Is someone who only plays Call of Duty as informed as someone who plays RPGS, FPSes, Platformers, Puzzlers, Action games, etc.? No.

Does someone who plays games exclusively on their iPhone have as valid of an opinion about games as someone who has gamed on multiple systems for several generations? No.

Can a Nintendo fan who only plays Nintendo games make judgments about the future of online in gaming? No.

I mean, it may sound elitist, but there are many gamers out there who have never played a single Nintendo game. If they want to sound educated about gaming, I think there are some Nintendo games they need to play.

I agree with you on the first, third, and fourth paragraphs, but second paragraph...what. YES a mobile gamer has as valid an opinion about games as anyone else. Why would anyone think otherwise? What on earth. In fact, they'd probably have a lot of knowledge they could share with me.

Ughhh why did you put in that paragraph.

I hope you're fucking awesome at Go.

haha yes.

 

[Littlegator]

Maybe you can just enlighten us then

If you honestly believe Nintendo only makes Mario and Zelda.

 

[Gravijah]

A new player character is a pretty big difference. Will there ever be a Zelda game where you're not playing as Link?

Actually, there are multiple different "Links". They even look pretty different!

Point taken. I did say that I understood your perspective and then relayed mine. I have no beef with it. It's cool.



Toys 'R' Us Gamer?

Naw, I disagree--Magnavox Odyssey. You've gotta start from there.

Odyssey is the coolest console name ever. Look at that font!

 

[Sennorin]

Valve

But Valve was never expanding. They just alternate between releases in a 10 year-cycle. (yes, I am bitter about still not being able to play Episode 3 *or* HL3)

 

[Big One]

Want to see how Ninteno games are the same? Look no further than the Animal Crossing series over the different systems..

Animal Crossing is in no way a core Nintendo franchise.

Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby are in no way games that follow a rehashed formula.

 

[Duke Togo]

Can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo fans?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

If you honestly believe Nintendo only makes Mario and Zelda.

I said A grade games. Anyway, fuck this thread - nintendo fans attack.

 

[Cheska]

The real question here: Can Nintendo ignore a proper gamer? Um yes.

 

[kliklik]

Can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo fans?

Nintendo seems to be, so why not?

Spoiler

too soon?

 

[TheSeks]

Can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo fans?

Yes. Unfortunately, can we ignore the threads: No.

Spoiler

too soon?

Never in Nintendo threads.

Spoiler

 

[Gravijah]

I said A grade games. Anyway, fuck this thread - nintendo fans attack.

One can dislike something while at the same time admitting that it is a quality product. There are quite a few reasonable people in here, and I'm not sure why you are overreacting.

 

[outunderthestars]

Animal Crossing is in no way a core Nintendo franchise.

Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby are in no way games that follow a rehashed formula.

please explain to me how zelda does not follow a rehashed formula.

You play as the same character with the same goal.

You follow the same : go to dungeon, get item, defeat boss with said item, then use item to get to previously inaccessible area of the map then repeat.

It's right up there with Smash Bros, Mario kart, Animal Crossing, and Pokemon as the most rehashed franchises in Nintendo's stable of IP's.

Hell, call of Duty has evolved more this generation than Zelda has...

 

[Foxtastical]

Okay, everyone is freaking out about "proper gamer", but I just needed some term to basically say - "I am someone who takes pride in playing video games. I am a video game enthusiast. I play a lot of games and I know a lot about games. I have played a wide variety of critically acclaimed games. I have played games from many different publishers, developers, and systems. My opinion about gaming is backed up by the wide variety of games I have played. I have been gaming for several years. I have done the "required reading" for video games."

Can someone who doesn't play Nintendo games say the above?

I seriously did not want this to turn into a troll fest. For example, is the opinion of a 12 year old kid who has only played games on his PS3 as valid as the opinion of an adult who has played games on multiple systems for the last 20 years?

Is someone who only plays Call of Duty as informed as someone who plays RPGS, FPSes, Platformers, Puzzlers, Action games, etc.? No.

Does someone who plays games exclusively on their iPhone have as valid of an opinion about games as someone who has gamed on multiple systems for several generations? No.

Can a Nintendo fan who only plays Nintendo games make judgments about the future of online in gaming? No.

I mean, it may sound elitist, but there are many gamers out there who have never played a single Nintendo game. If they want to sound educated about gaming, I think there are some Nintendo games they need to play.

Christ. This is embarrassing. ShockingAlberto has said many things I agree with. Pay attention to him.

Guess what? No one's taste is better than anyone else's taste. We're all equal. It's all subjective. Oh my god, the world is crashing before me. How can't my elite gamer sensibilities be objectively better than those people that only play Call of Duty/Halo?!

Edit: I bought the Wii day one. Haven't used it since, christ, I don't know when. Decided against a 3DS. Super Metroid is brilliant. What do these characteristics make me? Maybe labels are a bad idea? Or at the very least, this shows how applying labels to real people is simply a terrible idea.

 

[Poimandres]

Actually, there are multiple different "Links". They even look pretty different!

Well, yeah. Different Links but they all still answer to the name "Link" and are readily identifiable as Link. May as well call the series The Legend of Link.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Being elitist isn't really a bad thing, though. Thats just what conservatives have taught us to think. With regards to our discussion, it simply means that a person is more qualified to discuss a certain subject than others since they can do so with some measure of authority.. even if its over shit as trivial and inconsequential as video games.

What are you talking about? I think you're looking for a political fight where there isn't one.

It's elitist, for example, to scoff at people who buy groceries at discount stores. It's also elitist to assume that people who don't have the same gaming tastes as you aren't really "gaming enthusiasts".

 

[TheSeks]

Pokemon as the most rehashed franchises in Nintendo's stable of IP's.

Not to defend, but Pokemon in general adds a new select of 150 Pokemon, some new moves. Tweaks mechanics and balance (and in some cases, drops mechanics and redoes stuff. Sup Physical/Elemental split from Gen 3->4?). Sure, at the core it's basically the same, but the under the hood and new region/Pokemon make it feel slightly less rehash to me compared to Mario and Zelda.

 

[dani_dc]

A new player character is a pretty big difference. Will there ever be a Zelda game where you're not playing as Link?

A new player character might be important in a game more focused on story, but in a game focused on gameplay and design where the main character is nothing more than a vehicle to the player then it's really not all that important. The repeated use of Link is just a way to make players better familized with the world and feel less intimated about the actual changes in gameplay and design.

Or so it should be anyway, I'll agree that Zelda has been stagnated for awhile (even though I loved Twilight Princess), hopefully SS will change that.

please explain to me how zelda does not follow a rehashed formula.

You play as the same character with the same goal.

You follow the same : go to dungeon, get item, defeat boss with said item, then use item to get to previously inaccessible area of the map then repeat.

It's right up there with Smash Bros, Mario kart, Animal Crossing, and Pokemon as the most rehashed franchises in Nintendo's stable of IP's.

While I agree that Zelda has been stagnated for quite awhile and that the structure itself could use a change, you can hardly call a game the same just because of the structure. The elements of the structure are no less important and can make the game a completely different experience.

 

[Big One]

please explain to me how zelda does not follow a rehashed formula.

You play as the same character with the same goal.

You follow the same : go to dungeon, get item, defeat boss with said item, then use item to get to previously inaccessible area of the map then repeat.

It's right up there with Smash Bros, Mario kart, Animal Crossing, and Pokemon as the most rehashed franchises in Nintendo's stable of IP's.

Hell, call of Duty has evolved more this generation than Zelda has...

How is Call of Duty more evolved than Zelda when the same exact thing could be said about it?

You could easily say the same thing about any franchise, easily. Games like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Halo, and Gears of War reuse shit FAR more than the average Zelda game.

 

[kliklik]

It's elitist, for example, to scoff at people who buy groceries at discount stores. It's also elitist to assume that people who don't have the same gaming tastes as you aren't really "gaming enthusiasts".

Ok but what if you just say "I don't care whether you like or dislike the game, but you ought to try X to be considered a gaming enthusiast". So it's not really about gaming tastes as much as it is gaming experience.

 

[east of eastside]

Nintendo is a mental illness. Mental illnesses can't be "ignored". So, no.

 

[SykoTech]

Does anyone here actually think that people won't take you seriously as a gamer if you are into Nintendo games? Snobby Nintendo fanbabies maybe, but not people.

I can sorta see what the OP may have been thinking, but there is no argument here.

 

[Fusebox]

The real question here: Can Nintendo ignore a proper gamer? Um yes.

Lol, love it.

 

[Randomizer]

So the new zelda isn't about link saving Zelda?

Story isn't really that important to me anyway, I meant from a gameplay perspective and the changes to both games is roughly the same. Bioshock Infinite doesn't really deviate from the Bioshock formula either its not like its now a third person shooter/rts hybrid, it's a story driven 1st Person shooter. I am looking forward to both these games immensely I'm just sick of everyone making ignorant statments that Nintendo repeatedly release the same games over and over whilst most other developers get a free pass.

A new player character is a pretty big difference. Will there ever be a Zelda game where you're not playing as Link?

Possibly, but it would either end up being the best thing ever or it could end up with backlash of MGS2 proportions lol.

 

[Tain]

I'll never get the "all opinions are equally valid" crew.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Seeing as how I am not a fan of Nintendo nor do I find any of their games or systems that they make to interest me, I will have to say yes, you can ignore their games and systems and still be a "proper gamer" as you put it. All of the other consoles and PC games and such have me covered.

 

[Ryn]

what the fucks a proper gamer

 

[The Technomancer]

Uhm...yes? Nintendo makes some of the most downright brilliant experiences in gaming, but anyone can ignore anything. Am I not a true gamer for not experiencing Uncharted 2, what some call one of the defining experiences of the generation?

I don't normally go "why is this a thread" but...why is this a thread?

 

[Sennorin]

Hell, call of Duty has evolved more this generation than Zelda has...

*This generation* has seen one Zelda that was ported from the GameCube. The next Zelda-game is about to release these holidays. Meanwhile, a new Call of Duty-game has been released every year now for some time.

1.) The level of evolution that the Zelda-series goes through has yet to be awaited.
2.) I personally think that even now you are already factually wrong. The changes between TP and SS are drastic, from only comparing the little we know about SS at this point in time.
3.) I also think you are dead wrong about stating that the CoD-series features drastic changes.

 

[Dark Schala]

Actually, there are multiple different "Links". They even look pretty different!

Probably looking for these:
Zelda: Wand of Gamelon
Zelda's Adventure :lol

And possibly Spirit Tracks.

Odyssey is the coolest console name ever. Look at that font!

Clearly it shows that it's FROM THE FUTURE.

I said A grade games.

You can dislike a certain game or series, but can probably see that it is well-designed (in places and certain aspects, probably) and cherished by fans for various reasons, and possibly try to understand why these people enjoy it. And it won't take away from your enjoyment of other games, I hope. We're all enjoying the same hobby despite playing different things, so it's fine that people enjoy games that you may not like.

 

[MeBecomingI]

I have been ignoring Nintendo games since about 4 months after the Wii launched.

I am tired to death of their franchises, I don't care for handhelds and whenever I try a Wii game at my sister's house I am always underwhelmed.

I would consider myself quite the proper gamer. 360, PS3, Move, Kinect, sweet gaming PC and iPad. I play all of them happily.

Nintendo can go and take a leap. And I say that with all due respect, as I loved my NES and SNES. But...yeah..I play what I want to play and I can't remember the last Nintendo game I wanted to play.

Pretty much nailed it. Though I want to emphasize the sheer talent of Nintendo's development teams. They are such an amazingly talented group of developers... which is why it pains me that I have trouble playing them.

To elaborate on the content of the thread... As much as I know a game like Super Mario Galaxy is one of the most exquisitely designed and developed games on any platform, I just can't bring myself to play through it entirely. I played through a fair portion of it and loved it... for the act of playing it. Until I got very quickly and extremely bored and exhausted. Exhausted not from the game design, controls or anything like that, but from lack of substance in the material the game has been designed from. I've played through countless Mario games that I have become immune to the charm and aura of the character and the universe. It makes it almost impossible for me to play through it. That goes for a majority of the mainstream Nintendo IPs. Legend of Zelda being another... Every game just feeling like an extension of the other; until I get to the point where I have become immune to the enjoyment of them.

Don't get me wrong... I really want to enjoy them completely. However, I have hit my fatigue of the Nintendo IP crop. They have relied on that crop to push everything they have, and I am absolutely tired of it. Once they break the mold and design new IPs with the same care and attention of a Mario or Zelda and one that retains the same level of quality that something like Super Mario Galaxy has, but none of the fatigue of the charm, I may finally jump into the Nintendo pool.

Unfortunately, I am just absent to the charm of Nintendo in general. I absolutely loved the previous Nintendo, but they have become aggressively predictable and it is very unfortunate to me. I remember playing through Ocarina of Time and being absolutely blown away by it... but then Nintendo started to rest on their laurels and rehash the same property and style for numerous generations, and it shows no sign of slowing down. I just grew out of it all, I guess.

Just because I may avoid some Nintendo games doesn't mean I am any less "proper" than anyone else. If you enjoy them, then by all means enjoy them and be glad you did; I hope you were able to enjoy it for me as well. I just choose not to because of a nagging issue with the property of these very same games, but I still enjoy countless games that retain many of the core qualities of a Nintendo IP. Once Nintendo breaks out of their shell some more and moves far away from Mario and Zelda, I will gladly and proudly jump back into bed with Nintendo. But for now, I've moved away.

 

[tiff]

Ok but what if you just say "I don't care whether you like or dislike the game, but you ought to try X to be considered a gaming enthusiast". So it's not really about gaming tastes as much as it is gaming experience.

There's so many great games out there that appeal to so many different tastes that holding up any game as the litmus test for being a games enthusiast is ridiculous.

I mean, I can easily say "You need to have played X-Com to be considered a games enthusiast" and boom, 99% of the people who call themselves games enthusiasts are no longer games enthusiasts.

I'll never get the "all opinions are equally valid" crew.

How can an opinion be invalid? Especially about something as trivial as a video game?

 

[Derrick01]

Nintendo is a mental illness. Mental illnesses can't be "ignored". So, no.

They can be if you don't have one

 

[REV 09]

Imo, Nintendo mostly makes kids games. My first console was a NES. Nintendo served me well throughout the years, but they arent offering what I'm looking for. If your tech and online service aren't bleeding edge then I'll look elsewhere, which I do.

 

[Buddha Beam]

What are you talking about? I think you're looking for a political fight where there isn't one.

It's elitist, for example, to scoff at people who buy groceries at discount stores. It's also elitist to assume that people who don't have the same gaming tastes as you aren't really "gaming enthusiasts".

You're confusing elitism with arrogance.

 

[The Technomancer]

Pretty much nailed it.

...

Interesting speech. But can I ask what games you play currently?

Imo, Nintendo mostly makes kids games. My first console was a NES. Nintendo served me well throughout the years, but they arent offering what I'm looking for. If your tech and online service aren't bleeding edge then I'll look elsewhere, which I do.

This, however, I don't get, especially when the majority of non-Nintendo games are aimed at adolescent boys. Although to be fair the quoted poster did frame it entirely within his own tastes.

 

[Boney]

They make some other cool stuff outside of their big franchises though. Problem is, you have to buy a new hardware just to try 'em out, so if you're not big on their core franchises, it's a hard sell.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Well if you include System Shock 1+2, then its the fourth game. Maybe you shouldn't though considering how much Bioshock destroyed the series.

i didn't include them because I was talking about Bioshock.

it's okay though, nobody has played or remembers playing System Shock 1 + 2 aside from a few proper gamers that nobody cares about.

 

[outunderthestars]

You could easily say the same thing about any franchise, easily. Games like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Halo, and Gears of War reuse shit FAR more than the average Zelda game.

All of those franchises outside of halo are less than six years old. Majora's Mask was the last real change to the Zelda formula. 12 years of the same basic game over and over again.

Halo at least changed characters, abilities, world's and even had an RTS game.

We're up to the 16th zelda game now. And we're still the same guy, with mostly the same weapons, doing the same thing to save the same girl from the same villain. 16 games......

The OP asked how one could skip Nintendo games. Maybe because some of us are tired of playing the same game for the 16th time.

 

[The Technomancer]

All of those franchises outside of halo are less than six years old. Majora's Mask was the last real change to the Zelda formula. 12 years of the same basic game over and over again.

Halo at least changed characters, abilities, world's and even had an RTS game.

We're up to the 16th zelda game now. And we're still the same guy, with mostly the same weapons, doing the same thing to save the same girl from the same villain. 16 games......

The OP asked how one could skip Nintendo games. Maybe because some of us are tired of playing the same game for the 16th time.

And all of them have like four to six entries.