Yeah, there's no "All" search. It's defaulted to search for Apps for whoever knows why. It's broken up into Apps/Settings/Files. No way to just start typing and have it search everything.
Can Windows 8 be rescued at this point?
- Thread starter Zaptruder
- Start date
- Status
I think i am just getting old.
Win 8 doesn't work for me because its not intuitive. I'd like to think im a little tech savvy. I build my own PCs, been using Windows operating systems since 1996, and can do some VB.Net programming, but I simply dont have the time or desire to have to google search to figure out the desktop side of this OS.
I think the simplicity of using tablets the last couple of years has spoiled me.
That looks great, and should've been the direction Microsoft took Windows 8.
Also, how much memory does Start8 take up? Is it very lightweight?
MrGreencastle
Member
Exactly. It's the same attitude my mother adopts when faced with using computers in any shape or form.
Nearly every single one of these is why I went back to Windows 7.
This is reaaaaally stretching it. Not to mention your last point has nothing to do with Win 8 on the desktop, which is the point of discussion here. Also? Unless you are only using your PC at home, there really is no benefit to the data/theme sync. "No boss, 'Cheech's Porno' is not mine, a trojan must have put that there!".
Windows 8 is a gigantic pile of shit. Sorry. I've used it on 4 different PCs that have different 'missions' (gaming, finance/web/mail, work, development) and it is similarly frustrating for all of them. There are also weird driver issues with it, one of which causes my work laptop to peg the CPU and overheat. And a bunch of newer games (Walking Dead, Hotline Miami) don't work if you have a controller plugged in. Also, I've had two hard drives die on different Win 8 boxes in the last 3 weeks. In my 30 years of using PCs, I've never lost a hard drive. Something pegs Win 8's disk activity unnaturally, and I'm not sure what it is.
And then there's the stupid UI, which Road highlights above. Windows 8 is actually worse than Vista, which I didn't think possible.
sonikokaruto
Banned
I hate the fact that the only thing people see is the god damn start button.
People who don't like it WON'T LIKE IT.
Windows 8 is awesome and I don't miss the start button.
I love doing searches on the amazon app, and then search the exact same thing with the push of another app icon, and opening it already with the search going on.
It's just that people hate touch + keyboard without the mouse. Hell even with the mouse it's awesome.
People who don't like it WON'T LIKE IT.
Windows 8 is awesome and I don't miss the start button.
I love doing searches on the amazon app, and then search the exact same thing with the push of another app icon, and opening it already with the search going on.
It's just that people hate touch + keyboard without the mouse. Hell even with the mouse it's awesome.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think you fundamentally misunderstood people's concerns and frustrations if you think touch in general is what people don't like, rather than Microsoft's implementations of said touch.
Then just put it on the right edge or the bottom edge, neither will trigger the hot corners.
You'll still have 1 pixel of the mouse pointer sticking out, but you would have had that anyway, even in the corner.
Even if you do stick it in the corner, the Charms will disappear after a few seconds if you don't move the mouse again.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Why should they when Microsoft can't do it either?
They shipped a product with what can be described as two operating systems so that you can easily compare them and realize the new one offers no actual improvements or benefits in the desktop environment that most of us are using it in.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
I havent used windows 8, but I hear its alright. Meaning if your getting a new machine or building one its find to just buy windows 8. But if you already have a PC then you should just stick with 7.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
MS is well aware that the criticisms of Windows 8 can be easily addressed by giving users the option to disable metro or making it “toggle-able”, but is choosing to turn a blind eye and refusing to do so for obvious reasons. You’ve only got to ask the following to understand their motives: Why is MS so insistent on NOT giving KB+M users the choice to limit Metro UI to only touch centric devices? Why not make it easy for users to flip a switch like a “desktop mode” or a “tablet mode”? Why not make it work like Windows Media Centre where users don’t have to be exposed to it, if there’s no need?
Well, it’s quite obvious why. MS is salivating at the thought of metro; and by hook or by crook, want it to succeed at all cost. They’ve finally figured out a clever subterfuge and convenient ruse to bring this Xbox like model to PC users and thus desire that consumers embrace this controlled environment as the de facto Windows standard going forwards. What better way to ensure the odds of success is stacked in your favour than to concoct a clever “one size fits all” cocktale and shove it in the face of desktop users constantly?
You asked: Why take such huge risks or put up these ominous barriers?
Well, MS knows going this closed route means they risk pissing off a lot of indie developers and third parties, but there’s a greater self-serving need they need to fulfil first, which is to self-fellate MS’s corporate priorities. “Better them than us”, is the gist of it at the end of the day. The fast changing landscape and challenges brought about by Apple and Android’s growth the last few years has got MS very worried about their position going forwards. And of the two, there’s no doubt in my mind MS views Google’s open philosophy as the bigger threat compared to Apple’s closed ecosystem, in terms of how it may drastically impact their core revenue model.
The linchpin factor here is the success of Android. By making it free for all, Google has successfully seeded this idea in manufacturers’ mind that open source is a viable alternative going forwards where they no longer need be a slave to MS’s licensing model. This is what MS deeply resents. You see, no matter how hard they try to address this shortcoming (via devious incentive schemes and whatnot), deep down they fear there’s no way they can ever bring their licensing model to the point whereby manufacturers would naturally pick Windows over Android, if Google decides to bring their A-Game just like they did on the mobile front as we move ever closer to this convergent future.
What remains to be seen though, is whether Google can be smart enough to act decisively to leverage their android success over to desktop space. TBH, Google still gives me the impression that “it’s too much nerd and not enough business savvy” sometimes. But the threat of this possibility is definitely there, and MS knows it! Perhaps that may explain why we’re seeing this increased angst and magnitude of smear campaigns (such as cringeworthy virals and lobbyist propaganda machine in overdrive) being perpetrated by MS against Google nowadays :-D
Anyways, going forwards I have no doubt MS’s leadership is constantly pondering this question: How do they ensure and safeguard MS’s profitability in the hypothetical event where this significant chunk of revenue were to disappear, (eg. OEM licensing model) due to emerging threats? I would hazard a guess and say their strategy forwards would involve something like this: Focus on squeezing more milk (revenue) out of developers and end consumers, and tighten our grip on Enterprises. And how do you go about accomplishing that? One such way is to put a halt to the excessive freedom that PC users currently enjoy and attempt to slowly transform future Windows iterations into this controlled environment where we get to dictate how big of a slice of the cake we want to eat
This is where the fruits of metro strategy become apparent and why there’s this heavy emphasis of “one size fits all” tripe in the face of gullible masses now! To put it simply, Windows 8 is being employed as a bold cowboy move by MS to gauge how far they can shepherd their herd from the open fields into their pen enclosure for future slaughter. Actually, there is some wisdom to MS’s metaphoric manoeuvre: i.e. “If you throw enough shit at the wall...” Why? Because if you think about it, who do these masses largely consist of? I should think 1) general consumers who either don’t care or know any better or 2) are easily wooed with a marketing blitz or 3) generally just buy what’s widely perceived as standard or made available by OEMs when they consider their next upgrade.
At the end of the day, MS is not worried about smart nerds like you seeing through their ploy. You’re merely the minority whose voices can be easily drowned out with the help of their marketing dollars (and strategically placed cronies). It’s the masses with this herd mentality they are concerned about, who would ultimately decide the destiny of their strategy. And talking of cronies, I’ve noticed a consistent pattern with the sales pitch being deployed by these paid shills when it comes to promoting the virtues of Windows 8 diligently. It goes something like… “Look numbnuts, the desktop is still there in Windows 8, just like in Windows 7! It’s got some nice improvements under the hood (if you don’t like metro). It’s fast, it’s cheap, you just pin your shit…etc” LOL No shit Sherlock. Sure, the desktop is still there…..FOR NOW! The problem only becomes evident if everyone buys into your sweet-talk and Windows 8 turns out to be that huge success that MS is praying for! So what happens then, when MS’s waiting game for Windows 8 pays off at maturity?
As been said by countless others, the biggest problem with Window 8, is not what it is NOW, in its current form, but what it could potentially BECOME in the future if MS’s plan comes into fruition. Windows 8 in its current state is merely MS using their muscle to force people into “looking out the Window at their walled garden”. And depending on how many people MS can convince to take the plunge and “jump out head first through that window”, future iterations could potentially be just “you staring at that enclosed garden”, while the traditional desktop and the associated freedom that you and I know will be kept alive only for niche markets such as enterprises.
Noticed how eerily silent it gets when you shift the topic of discussion to highlight this very important point? So where are the attempts to dissuade such fears MS? Where are your mouthpieces with their sweet assurances that future freedom of PC users will not be compromised in any shape or form? Why are you refusing to give KB+M users the choice to disable metro on non-touch centric devices? Instead it’s just the same old regurgitation and the parroting act of “Look boys and girls, at our brand new shiny toy! Have no fear, the desktop’s still here (for now). Time to let go of the past. It’s here, it’s now and it’s easy. Go, go, go Metro! Don’t look back”. LOL
IMO you’ve got to be a moron to not see what trouble lies ahead if metro takes off and MS’s grand scheme comes into fruition. MS doesn’t need to kill the desktop; they “just” need to slowly condition the general market into accepting this clever little package of control of a closed metro environment (where they get to dictate terms) as the de facto standard going forwards, while they keep the traditional desktop alive for niche markets such enterprises. When MS has control of that critical threshold of consumer masses firmly in their grasp, developers would have no choice but to follow suit and succumb to their terms and the “metro” way of business. Isn’t that brilliant? And that, ladies and gents, is how you “kill two birds (developers and consumers) with one stone” :-D
@wickedninja
I don't doubt that's what they're scheming. And what they believe.
But, I think the informed power-user is an incredibly important demographic to MS that they're pissing off.
These people are the tech users in their circles, and are the people that friends and family get advice from. They help people out with their problems on the PC, and are the crowd that have shat on Vista and ME and are now shitting on W8.
The strategy of shifting people into their closed garden surreptitiously only works if people actually start buying into their walled garden. That requires sales of their walled garden OS and people to actually go on their stores and buy shit.
Early days yet, but it's not trending well for MS in those regards.
The shame is, they've done something interesting with this strategy that isn't all together a bad thing. But it's chained to some pretty shitty ideas that are bringing it down. If they weren't so cynical, they'd do a better chance of maintaining PC desktop share and recapturing the tablet space.
I don't doubt that's what they're scheming. And what they believe.
But, I think the informed power-user is an incredibly important demographic to MS that they're pissing off.
These people are the tech users in their circles, and are the people that friends and family get advice from. They help people out with their problems on the PC, and are the crowd that have shat on Vista and ME and are now shitting on W8.
The strategy of shifting people into their closed garden surreptitiously only works if people actually start buying into their walled garden. That requires sales of their walled garden OS and people to actually go on their stores and buy shit.
Early days yet, but it's not trending well for MS in those regards.
The shame is, they've done something interesting with this strategy that isn't all together a bad thing. But it's chained to some pretty shitty ideas that are bringing it down. If they weren't so cynical, they'd do a better chance of maintaining PC desktop share and recapturing the tablet space.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Drivers is a problem with all new operating systems. Hotline Miami works fine, update ms driver first if you use Xbox pad for wireless.
Your hard drive claim is just odd. 30 years and never a drive failure is just a run of incredible luck.
Got one of the Asus Vivobooks for my mum's birthday, it's a fantastic piece of kit but I'm really quite disappointed by Windows 8... I'm a pretty techy person, currently have 2 machines running Windows 7 and a Macbook running OSX, as well as experience using Linux, but damn even the simplest things were slightly confusing on Windows 8 for me.
I know it'll just take some getting used to, it's a new way (and possibly a better way) of thinking, but imo MS really don't help themselves, for example I couldn't figure out how to add my mum's Gmail account to the mail app without signing up to a Microsoft account, and in IE10 I couldn't even figure out how to bring up the bloody address bar/tabs etc.
Probably my own failings tbh, but it's far from ideal.
Also a system update stopped the two finger sideways scrolling on the main Metro homepage from working
You now have to move the cursor to the edge of the screen, or use the touch screen, meh
I know it'll just take some getting used to, it's a new way (and possibly a better way) of thinking, but imo MS really don't help themselves, for example I couldn't figure out how to add my mum's Gmail account to the mail app without signing up to a Microsoft account, and in IE10 I couldn't even figure out how to bring up the bloody address bar/tabs etc.
Probably my own failings tbh, but it's far from ideal.
Also a system update stopped the two finger sideways scrolling on the main Metro homepage from working
You now have to move the cursor to the edge of the screen, or use the touch screen, mehCharlieDigital
Banned
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Co...-Upgrade-Donna-Tapellini-Modern-UI,19878.html
Consumer Reports: Just Stick with Windows 7 For Now
Ouch. Consumer Reports is currently telling the spending public that they're better off not upgrading to Windows 8 for now, and to purchase a desktop or laptop with Windows 7 still installed if shopping for a new rig. The group names numerous reasons as to why consumers should avoid the touchy new OS, including a lack of touchscreen-based systems, quirky performance and more.
Ouch. Consumer Reports is currently telling the spending public that they're better off not upgrading to Windows 8 for now, and to purchase a desktop or laptop with Windows 7 still installed if shopping for a new rig. The group names numerous reasons as to why consumers should avoid the touchy new OS, including a lack of touchscreen-based systems, quirky performance and more.
Windows 8 is no different to Windows 7 to me. I haven't found a single Metro app I like better than its desktop equivalent so I boot into Windows 8, press Desktop and never see the start screen again. I can't see me ever using the Metro side of things, multi taksing through the Desktop is just so much more convenient.
Wow wtf. I personally feel the same, but even in the most extreme case I would feel Win8 to be a sidegrade, likely not worth the money to upgrade, but if I was buying a new pre-built rig (I would never fucking do this... but for conversations sake) I wouldn't exactly go out of my way to make sure it wasn't running W8.
Its not THAT bad..... It just doesn't seem to be worth the upgrade cost IMO if you already have W7 running. To have Consumer reports come out and tell people to flat out avoid W8 on new purchases strikes me as a bit of an overreaction on their part.
Trent Strong
Banned
My computer boots up a billion times faster with Windows 8. If I could just permanently get rid of the metro screen, I'd be totally happy.
I started a tread about a week ago asking for advice on an upgrade (to which I got no replies, thnx 
) so I just recently bought a new hd and windows 8 to go along with it. I gotta say outside of the lack of start button and boot to desktop option its fine as any other windows. That's just my opinion with the limited amount of exposure I've had with it thus far. I must say I'm gettin sort of used to hitting the windows key to bring up the metro start replacement, but I really can't see it being as quick and effecient as the start button. The search is fast, but I'm working with aclean insall on a brand new hd and absolutely none of my old files transfered over yet. I also just realized I'm stuck in a backwards windows upgrade cycle where I've gone from me to vista and now 8, lol.
) so I just recently bought a new hd and windows 8 to go along with it. I gotta say outside of the lack of start button and boot to desktop option its fine as any other windows. That's just my opinion with the limited amount of exposure I've had with it thus far. I must say I'm gettin sort of used to hitting the windows key to bring up the metro start replacement, but I really can't see it being as quick and effecient as the start button. The search is fast, but I'm working with aclean insall on a brand new hd and absolutely none of my old files transfered over yet. I also just realized I'm stuck in a backwards windows upgrade cycle where I've gone from me to vista and now 8, lol.Uno Venova
Banned
Good advice.
SuicideUZI
Member
It has some nice under-the-hood improvements but forcing the metro touch friendly UI was bound for failure.
All they had to do was make it an option, if you dont like it fine turn it off and boot to a traditional desktop with the win7 start menu but no they had to force it and have a weird hybrid OS that in my opinion doesn't really fit well with a non-touch screen PC
All they had to do was make it an option, if you dont like it fine turn it off and boot to a traditional desktop with the win7 start menu but no they had to force it and have a weird hybrid OS that in my opinion doesn't really fit well with a non-touch screen PC
Yes. I can't help but agree with this. The integration of touch is down to a core level. You see it in the options everywhere. But just as any other feature or setting you don't find useful is easy to ignore -I.e.network settings for those without sharing and a home network going on - it would have been fine had they given people the option. As it i the metro start is completely touch oriented and it gets in the way of normal non-touch usage.
It really is completely pointless for most desktop users isn't it. I can't see myself ever choosing to use Metro apps over the desktop versions I'm already using so I can't see myself ever being happy with Metro.
CharlieDigital
Banned
The biggest mistake was starting from Windows desktop instead of Windows Phone.
Both Apple and Google took this route in transitioning to tablets.
It's not that I can't see why they wanted to do it this way (start from desktop OS base), but it wasn't a good idea for a variety of reasons (easy one: battery life).
Both Apple and Google took this route in transitioning to tablets.
It's not that I can't see why they wanted to do it this way (start from desktop OS base), but it wasn't a good idea for a variety of reasons (easy one: battery life).
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Question to Win8 users;
Is it possible to uninstall many of the programs? Can I completely terminate things like the Microsoft app store, the xbox integration and all that?
If I simply want to have then most privacy and the fewest processes running in the background. I want to remove everything except for the useful paint, notepad, wordpad, calculator and such.
Is it possible to uninstall many of the programs? Can I completely terminate things like the Microsoft app store, the xbox integration and all that?
If I simply want to have then most privacy and the fewest processes running in the background. I want to remove everything except for the useful paint, notepad, wordpad, calculator and such.
It's possible, yeah there are some registry tweaks and the like.
the desktop part of win8 is a pretty good improvement, for one I really like the ribbons in explorer and multi monitor support is just much better than 7 and that matter a lot to me.
still, modern UI on a separate screen has proven to be quite useful to me on desktop, some of the bing apps are actually pretty cool and I'd never use bing if it was any other situation, somethings though just don't work like they should in there with touch screens or mouse or whatever.
the whole charm bars to have settings like turn off PC in there is just stupid, if you don't know the keyboard shortcuts, the simple task of turning of your PC takes longer than win7 and a lot of other similar usability issues.
why I have to drag a modern program and pull it down the screen to close it with my mouse? just put a damn X in there, is it really hard? I just alt+f4 everything, thankfully that still works...
Exactly.
This application gives me the best of both worlds. I have the start menu from Windows 7, the desktop improvements from Windows 8, and I still have access to Metro and the App Store (which I do use, just not as a main OS).
Start8!
anyone knows if you can change how the network connection works? when I click the the icon in system tray the charm bar thing comes up instead of how Win7 was, I really like to change this back because it shows up on whichever monitor Start screen was there last time, so it can jump around, I use this a lot and it's quite irritating right now.
My god I just installed Windows 8 and its freaking beautiful!
Jesus all the hate I had heard turned me off initially but man to me this is a revolution. I'm just a few minutes in and still learning some things but already love it. Don't know why people are so afraid of change. The old layout was the same since what, Windows 95 more than 17 years ago?
Even more shocking, Internet Explorer is smoother than Chrome was on 7.
Jesus all the hate I had heard turned me off initially but man to me this is a revolution. I'm just a few minutes in and still learning some things but already love it. Don't know why people are so afraid of change. The old layout was the same since what, Windows 95 more than 17 years ago?
Even more shocking, Internet Explorer is smoother than Chrome was on 7.
Everyone has an agenda , be it anti ms , anti ms windows store , anti touch interface or something else.
I enjoy windows 8 and I don't have any problems with it and neither does anyone I know. So it will be interesting to see how this complaints change as more time goes on .
You only say that because you have a pro-ms agenda.
Unless this has seen a lot of patches since I last used it, I find both Classic Shell and Start8 rubbish attempts at mimicking the Windows 7 start menu.
Startisback is cheaper and better. It has a few nice customization options, but essentially it is a 100% replication of the Windows 7 start menu. Recently used files / programs, search, drag and drop, etc all work exactly as they do in Windows 7, which Start8 and Classic Shell don't do.
Trent Strong
Banned
Ah, interesting. I'll have to check this out.
like I said , everyone has an agenda .
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
haha
Yes. I don't know the keyboard shortcut to turn off my computer and it is annoying having to click through 4 things just to do it now.
Also how the fuck do I close a windows 8 "app". I click to play a song or watch a video or view and image and those goddamn apps are the default now (which I will soon be changing but still). Ok cool so I'm done doing what I wanted to do... now how do I kill the task? Esc doesn't get you out of the program like any normal full-screened program since the beginning of forever does. The menu doesn't offer any useful options... namely "close". I just have ctrl-shift-esc and kill them in task manager. There has to be a better way.
edit: nvm I think I've discovered it; Tabs on the left side of the screen.
plagiarize
Banned
It's the same 'keyboard shortcut' you use to turn your computer on. The power button. Or you can do Win + I and click on the power button at the bottom right of the screen if you don't like that. Or make a batchfile that runs "shutdown /f /s". Or hit ctrl + alt + delete and hit the power button at the bottom right of the screen.
pressing 'Start' to get to the button to turn of your computer isn't intuitive either, but you've forgotten that after doing it for years.
Or just like you would on a smartphone, don't worry too much about closing any apps and just press the home button (the Windows key) and go back to the main menu. The OS will take care of resource management. If you really want to close them, then drag them down from the top of the screen.
I have no problems with Windows 8 so far, in fact I absolutely love it. It's both my main home OS & work OS at this point. The most I ever use the Metro interface for is "Hit Windows Key -> Immediately typing for search" and I've found my file/app/setting in 5 seconds and back to the Desktop. I don't even have to do this very often, my frequently used programs are all pinned to the taskbar, and by right clicking in the bottom left corner I get a menu with 90% of what I would normally have to go into the start menu to use in 7.
It's much speedier, the boot time is amazing and all of the little improvements to the desktop experience go a long way for me. When I first saw the ribbon UI in file explorer I thought it looked like shit, but actually using it has been wonderful so far. All in all, for me, it would be impossible to go back to Windows 7. 8 is just a much, much better desktop experience. Yes, Metro is crap, and really just feels like this Frankenstein sewed on appendage, but I never have to use it.
It's much speedier, the boot time is amazing and all of the little improvements to the desktop experience go a long way for me. When I first saw the ribbon UI in file explorer I thought it looked like shit, but actually using it has been wonderful so far. All in all, for me, it would be impossible to go back to Windows 7. 8 is just a much, much better desktop experience. Yes, Metro is crap, and really just feels like this Frankenstein sewed on appendage, but I never have to use it.
plagiarize
Banned
I have no problems with Windows 8 so far, in fact I absolutely love it. It's both my main home OS & work OS at this point. The most I ever use the Metro interface for is "Hit Windows Key -> Immediately typing for search" and I've found my file/app/setting in 5 seconds and back to the Desktop. I don't even have to do this very often, my frequently used programs are all pinned to the taskbar, and by right clicking in the bottom left corner I get a menu with 90% of what I would normally have to go into the start menu to use in 7.
It's much speedier, the boot time is amazing and all of the little improvements to the desktop experience go a long way for me. When I first saw the ribbon UI in file explorer I thought it looked like shit, but actually using it has been wonderful so far. All in all, for me, it would be impossible to go back to Windows 7. 8 is just a much, much better desktop experience. Yes, Metro is crap, and really just feels like this Frankenstein sewed on appendage, but I never have to use it.
I find it more convenient to hit Win + X to get that same menu. But then I keep my left hand on the keyboard when I'm using the other hand to control the mouse.
I was not aware of that shortcut, you've just made it even better! Thanks!
It's waay too early for this topic, and honestly I think Windows 8 is doing just fine. Have to give it a year at least especially with whatever the heck Windows Blue turns out to be and how they tie Windows 8 stuff into the next Xbox (as we all know they well). Heck it's too early to say how Windows 8 phones are doing right now. It's very very early days.
I've noticed no difference from old Windows 7 start menu and Start8...I must use just basic functions of the start menu; the hitting Windows key and searching (for anything, with one button) is my main use of it. Probably would have went with Startisback had I bothered to search for alternatives though!
Oh yeah I've always used the power button on my laptop, but I've yet to set it to sleep, hibernate or full off in the settings. In the mean time I've just been going through the menus which are annoying.
Windows key + R
shutdown -s -f -t 00
Instant shutdown, and once you type it once it'll autofill.
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