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[matthewwhatever]

Duffy's out of the news now because the trial is in recess at the moment. When it comes back in August -- with Harper's former chief of staff Nigel Wright on the stand -- it's probably going to be big news. Tempered a little by the fact people don't usually pay as much attention over the summer, but if he says anything explosive, it'll get picked up.

It's really up in the air at the moment. It wasn't a judicial or police procedure that found the NDP violated budget rules but a parliamentary board that is stacked with NDP opponents. Now the NDP is taking the case to the courts and I'll accept their judgement when it happens because the budget rules are pretty obtuse.

Either way though, rolling over and accepting the charges (which is for spending funds in the wrong places rather than theft) would allow the Conservatives and Liberals to paint the NDP as equally as corrupt as the other two large parties. A large part of the NDP's appeal is as an agent of change and this certainly would put a damper on that image. By vigorously denying it Mulcair has blunted that attack. It's good leadership.

The NDP has committed to PR electoral reform of the House of Commons, which would allow the PCs to come back as there is no more vote splitting and stable coalitions are required to govern which is also a moderating influence on government. That's way better than Trudeau's waffling on the issue. And it is not a Harper like policy at all.

I see why Mulcair is acting so outraged about it, but as far as I can tell, it's really not that different from the In & Out stuff the Conservatives tried pulling. Of course, the advantage for the NDP is that people didn't care about the Conservatives bilking taxpayers out of money because it was all so convoluted -- it's not like the Senate spending, where you have pretty clear-cut cases of appointed people being outraged they have to eat cold cheese. Here it's, like, 50+ people being told to pay back various amounts because they spent office money on the wrong kinds of offices. I think it's a pretty dubious use of money that's supposed to be used in a non-partisan way, but I can see why most people would tune it out.

Also, re: the bolded, is there any issue you can't turn around into a discussion on PR? I want to see you do it with something really obscure, like supply management or something.

 

[Azih]

How politicians get elected has a major impact on everything a government does. The voting system defines what politicians have to do to get elected/re-elected and what kind of power their party can wield and that is their primary incentive and governs their behavior. It's not surprising that almost anything can be tied back to it.

The PCs would never have been destroyed by the insane and perverse result where they got 2 million votes and only elected 2 people out of it in a PR system.

The lack of false majorities in PR also means that there is no constant grandstanding in a minority situation as every big party jostles to get to around 38% support and force an election to get full fake majority power to do whatever the hell they want.

Edit: A better House of Commons also makes the Senate even more superfluous. There that's my second pet issue brought in as well.

 

[Boogie]

Also, re: the bolded, is there any issue you can't turn around into a discussion on PR? I want to see you do it with something really obscure, like supply management or something.

I'll admit it, I lol'd.

C'mon Azih, it's worth a chuckle how many posters in this thread have relatively "single-issue" obsessions we just can't stop talking about.

gutter_trash with separatism

You with PR.

Me with policing/security matters.

firehawk with general "Chicken Little"-ing.

 

[maharg]

I thought I was the one with a one track PR mind. It's definitely an issue where my vote will go to whichever party dooms themselves with it the hardest.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'll admit it, I lol'd.

C'mon Azih, it's worth a chuckle how many posters in this thread have relatively "single-issue" obsessions we just can't stop talking about.

gutter_trash with Canadian Unity

You with PR.

Me with policing/security matters.

firehawk with general "Chicken Little"-ing.

fixed in bolded

 

[CitizenVectron]

Looks like the 308 update tomorrow will show the NDP solidly in the lead, this was a teaser from his twitter:

 

[Perspicacity]

Trudeau holdin that big L

 

[DopeyFish]

I'm onboard with the orange crush

 

[firehawk12]

I really don't want to get my hopes up. lol

 

[explodet]

Rae Days for everybody!

 

[matthewwhatever]

Ugh.

But as I've said, it's a long, long time until the election, and this campaign is going to be brutal and expensive -- and if the writ is, in fact, dropped in July (which seems to be the preferred rumour at the moment), then the Conservatives are the only ones with enough money to last from then until election day. I'm curious to see what this week's quarterly fundraising numbers from Elections Canada show.

 

[GSG Flash]

I'm onboard with the orange crush

Me too

Although I will vote Liberal to avoid vote splitting if it looks like they have a chance to beat the Cons in my riding.

My first choice is NDP.

 

[gutter_trash]

Looks like the 308 update tomorrow will show the NDP solidly in the lead, this was a teaser from his twitter:

it's up
http://www.threehundredeight.com/2015/06/ndp-now-favoured-in-new-polls-and-seat.html

it appears that the Conservatives have reached their ceiling with no party to borrow votes from.

The NDP seems to be feeding off Liberal voters who just want Harper out, if Justin keeps on fumbling, he will continue bleed support towards the NDP.

Spoiler

The debates will be do or die for Justin, life got harder with the return of Gilles Duceppe who is a vicious debater.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Fuuuuuu not the Conservatives again please please please

 

[firehawk12]

I can live with an NDP minority. I'm still expecting a Conservative minority though.

 

[gabbo]

What's the number needed for a majority again?

 

[Lexxism]

What's the number needed for a majority again?

At least half. So 154

 

[Fuzzy]

At least half. So 154

There are 30 more seats in the next election so half would be 169.

 

[Silexx]

Fuuuuuu not the Conservatives again please please please

Read the chart again. The CPC is in a steady downward trajectory.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Hopefully this momentum doesnt stop.

 

[gutter_trash]

double post?

 

[gutter_trash]

the best outcome would be for the Conservatives to fall into 3rd Place (2nd opposition)

 

[Silexx]

So MacLean's is reporting that Muclair had secret meetings with Harper to secure a job that would have him join the CPC as top advisor in the PMO. Only reason it didn't happen was because Muclair wanted more money.

Edit: link to the story:http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/mulcairs-secret-meetings-with-the-tories/

Should note that Muclair has said that he actually turned it down because of Harper's environmental policies.

 

[gabbo]

So MacLean's is reporting that Muclair had secret meetings with Harper to secure a job that would have him join the CPC as top advisor in the PMO. Only reason it didn't happen was because Muclair wanted more money.

Edit: link to the story:http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/mulcairs-secret-meetings-with-the-tories/

Should note that Muclair has said that he actually turned it down because of Harper's environmental policies.

Is that what smear campaigns have come to? "He's so untrustworthy he wanted to be one of us!".

 

[gutter_trash]

So MacLean's is reporting that Muclair had secret meetings with Harper to secure a job that would have him join the CPC as top advisor in the PMO. Only reason it didn't happen was because Muclair wanted more money.

Edit: link to the story:http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/mulcairs-secret-meetings-with-the-tories/

Should note that Muclair has said that he actually turned it down because of Harper's environmental policies.

this doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Complex Shadow]

so i came home to this [NSFW && NSFL]
pic 1
pic 2

i dont wanna see this shit. i felt like throwing up.

edit:
googled it, apparently its been happening since may. what the actual fuck?

 

[BigJonsson]

My friend got one of those in the mail

=/

 

[Mr.Mike]

so i came home to this [NSFW && NSFL]
pic 1
pic 2

i dont wanna see this shit. i felt like throwing up.

edit:
googled it, apparently its been happening since may. what the actual fuck?

Ridiculous. Is it coming from the CPC or some anti-abortion organization?

 

[maharg]

Is that what smear campaigns have come to? "He's so untrustworthy he wanted to be one of us!".

Haha.

Also, I mean, if you want to paint the man as greedy and the alternative to joining your party he actually took was running as an MP for a party that was a joke in Quebec at the time, I really don't know what to tell you. If it were all about the money he'd probably have gone into the private sector. Frankly, just the fact that he's commented on the record about this puts is kind of impressive.

 

[Complex Shadow]

Ridiculous. Is it coming from the CPC or some anti-abortion organization?

i forgot. i showed it to my brother to see if he knew anything about it. and he just threw it out.

edit: its says center for bio ethical reform. in the pic.
edit2: don't Google it.

My friend got one of those in the mail

=/

yea i bet. but its still really weird coming home and seeing that.

 

[BigJonsson]

Who do they expect to sway in their direction with those mailings? Anyone who will not vote Liberal based on that wasn't going to vote Liberal or NDP or Green in the first place =/

Really wonder if the police or anyone could stop those mailings from going out

 

[Silexx]

Who do they expect to sway in their direction with those mailings? Anyone who will not vote Liberal based on that wasn't going to vote Liberal or NDP or Green in the first place =/

Really wonder if the police or anyone could stop those mailings from going out

Quite the opposite, actually. Part of the reason for diminishing support for the Conservatives is some people who previously voted CPC now switching to the NDP. But traditional Liberal voters now saying they're voting NDP is the bigger reason for the orange surge. But if I'm the CPC I'm hoping that this story is going to scare off those Liberals who think that Muclair may be a legitimate alternative. The Conservatives are very aware of how they benefit from vote splitting, so they've been trying to maintain this balancing act when attack both parties. This is why they haven't gone in as hard on Muclair as they have on Trudeau.


Finally, just keep in mind that this story isn't actually part of the Conservatives' campaign. This is being reported by MacLean's magazine. Now if we want to speculate that maybe the Conservatives leaked this story, that's another thing.

 

[gutter_trash]

Conservatives want a polarized political environment. They thrive on confrontation.

It is still important for the Liberals to stay relevant to a certain degree. Because the last thing Canada needs is to have a political climate turn in US vs THEM like in some other countries.

The best scenario this October is for the Conservatives to fall to 3rd place and occupy the position of 2nd opposition

 

[Azih]

Also, re: the bolded, is there any issue you can't turn around into a discussion on PR? I want to see you do it with something really obscure, like supply management or something.

C'mon Azih, it's worth a chuckle how many posters in this thread have relatively "single-issue" obsessions we just can't stop talking about.

I thought I was the one with a one track PR mind. It's definitely an issue where my vote will go to whichever party dooms themselves with it the hardest.

Alright alright. All fair points. I mean lord, I built a website for this stupid issue and somehow ended up on the board of Fair Vote Canada. Now that other people are actually talking about it I don't feel like the crazy guy on the street corner screaming about things no one else gives a damn about as much .

 

[matthewwhatever]

It's still *mainly* you screaming about things no one else gives a damn about, though. Well, you and Maharg.

Ridiculous. Is it coming from the CPC or some anti-abortion organization?

Is there a difference? Even if it's not formally tied to the Conservatives, the fact it directly goes after Trudeau suggests there was at least some coordination between them and the anti-choice groups...as if the prominence of so many Conservative MPs at their events wasn't enough to make the connection.


And re: Mulcair and the CPC, I've always thought of him as an untrustworthy, mercenary hack, so it doesn't surprise me that he'd be available to the highest bidder. That said, considering he's mortgaged his home at least 11 times, it's hard to fault him too much to trying to get as much money as possible.

 

[firehawk12]

Those mailers have been going out for a while. With the abortion debate dead, the only thing they can do is a) play the feminist anti-sex-selection angle and b) do the shock angle. It's shitty either way.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Those mailers have been going out for a while. With the abortion debate dead, the only thing they can do is a) play the feminist anti-sex-selection angle and b) do the shock angle. It's shitty either way.

I wonder if anti-choicers even realize the irony of them taking a feminist stance on anything?

Every year they have their "March for Life" on Parliament Hill, it fills me with so much rage when I walk by them. And they always litter the streets with their propaganda, to leave little reminders of how abhorrent they are.

 

[Azih]

It's still *mainly* you screaming about things no one else gives a damn about, though. Well, you and Maharg.

And Justin Trudeau! Any situation other than a Conservative majority and FPTP is probably gone gone gone :O

 

[GSG Flash]

It's funny how this Mulcair story came out once the NDP started leading in polls.

I have a feeling that it came from the Liberal camp, especially considering that Soudas is essentially on the Liberal side now.

 

[Silexx]

It's funny how this Mulcair story came out once the NDP started leading in polls.

I have a feeling that it came from the Liberal came, especially considering that Soudas is essentially on the Liberal side now.

Anything is possible, but I'll say this: this doesn't really help the Liberals much because, if anything, it gives the impression that Muclair is the left-wing Harper and people may think that that's what you need to take down Harper.

 

[DopeyFish]

Yeah, the story doesn't really hurt mulclair.

1) he was going to be an advisor

2) he turned it down

3) it was in 2007

Guilty by negotiation

 

[gutter_trash]

Mulcair isn't Jack.

Jack was authentic.

Mulcair just happens to be at the right place the right time, hey elected MP in Outremont, first time for NDP in Quebec since forever.
Gets overrated credit for that win in a hipster trending riding.

anyway, Mulcair recruited a bunch of YES voters in his team and supports the Shebrooke Accord of 50%+1 and he is against the Clarity Act.

 

[Azih]

*sigh* I badly miss Jack Layton. Dude was the best Prime Minister in Waiting for the few months he was. Fuck Cancer.

 

[DJ_Lae]

so i came home to this [NSFW && NSFL]
pic 1
pic 2

i dont wanna see this shit. i felt like throwing up.

edit:
googled it, apparently its been happening since may. what the actual fuck?

Yikes, wouldn't be happy having my kids finding that in the mail. Only mailer I've had recently was a stop the seal hunt flyer the other day, and it didn't use any horrific imagery outside of a Harper bust shot.

 

[gutter_trash]

apparently,
by law, the Conservatives are in violation of Bill C-51 by using promotional video used by ISIS in their political ads

 

[Azih]

apparently,
by law, the Conservatives are in violation of Bill C-51 by using promotional video used by ISIS in their political ads

Yup. Possession of terrorist propaganda is illegal let alone BROADCASTING it.

 

[gutter_trash]

Mulcair is going to campaign on abolishing the Senate knowing that it impossible to abolish it without re-opening up Constitutional jibber-jabber with the provinces.

Mulcair visited Premier Couillard today; Couillard said ''no'' on abolishing the Senate stating the they get a high representation that serves as a counter-weight in the Ottawa.

So the 2nd biggest Province stated that they want to keep the Senate; I expect the Atlantic Provinces to say the same thing = 5 provinces against abolishing the Senate

 

[Stumpokapow]

I highly doubt that claim, RE: C-51; in countries that have far more restrictive guidelines on possession of, for example, hate material, there are generally exceptions for public commentary or educational purposes. The idea that an ad clearly meant to attack an opponent and call them a terrorist would be reasonably held by anyone to be endorsement of terrorism stretches credulity to the extreme.

The clauses in C-51 which impact the criminal code and are related to possession / distribution of terrorist propaganda:

Every person who, by communicating statements, knowingly advocates or promotes the commission of terrorism offences in general — other than an offence under this section — while knowing that any of those offences will be committed or being reckless as to whether any of those offences may be committed, as a result of such communication, is guilty of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years.

The various clauses on possession of material don't seem to define a crime, they just allow a judge to issue a warrant to seize property. All of them emphasize discretion, all of them seem to connect possession of propaganda with knowledge of or advocacy for an attack.

What's the actual legal case being made that the government broke any of the CC provisions in C-51?

 

[Stage On]

Mulcair is going to campaign on abolishing the Senate knowing that it impossible to abolish it without re-opening up Constitutional jibber-jabber with the provinces.

Mulcair visited Premier Couillard today; Couillard said ''no'' on abolishing the Senate stating the they get a high representation that serves as a counter-weight in the Ottawa.

So the 2nd biggest Province stated that they want to keep the Senate; I expect the Atlantic Provinces to say the same thing = 5 provinces against abolishing the Senate

How are they serving as a counter-weight when they haven't vetoed a bill since 1939? At this point they are nothing more then glorified rubber stampers.

 

[firehawk12]

I wonder if anti-choicers even realize the irony of them taking a feminist stance on anything?

Every year they have their "March for Life" on Parliament Hill, it fills me with so much rage when I walk by them. And they always litter the streets with their propaganda, to leave little reminders of how abhorrent they are.

They know they are losing the whole right to life Christian conservative argument, so they have to turn it into a feminist argument in order to avoid sounding too crazy.

It doesn't matter though, since abortion will always exist in a legal gray area because no one wants to touch it. Hell, even right-to-die is probably going to go nowhere and will have to be solved by the courts, if it is at all.

How are they serving as a counter-weight when they haven't vetoed a bill since 1939? At this point they are nothing more then glorified rubber stampers.

I assume it's all about perception now more than anything else.