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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland

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Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
How are they serving as a counter-weight when they haven't vetoed a bill since 1939? At this point they are nothing more then glorified rubber stampers.

What do you mean "haven't vetoed a bill since 1939"? In your lifetime, the Senate were instrumental in "vetoing" Kim Campbell's revised abortion restrictions; the Senate "vetoed" the original US-Canada Free Trade Agreement; and the Senate initially "vetoed" the GST before Mulroney used his reserve appointments. That's not exhaustive, but those are three major examples of how the course of Canadian politics was materially shaped by the Senate. The second directly caused an election, and the third certainly increased the salience of the issue in a subsequent election.

They're hardly a routine part of the legislative process, but they absolutely have functioned as a useful emergency backstop in your lifetime.
 
I assume it's all about perception now more than anything else.
yup, trude dat. Even if the representation is virtual, it can be used a leveraging tool to make Constitutional demands

any candidate advocating re-opening the Constitution is setting themselves for a losing fight

What do you mean "haven't vetoed a bill since 1939"? In your lifetime, the Senate were instrumental in "vetoing" Kim Campbell's revised abortion restrictions; the Senate "vetoed" the original US-Canada Free Trade Agreement; and the Senate initially "vetoed" the GST before Mulroney used his reserve appointments. That's not exhaustive, but those are three major examples of how the course of Canadian politics was materially shaped by the Senate. The second directly caused an election, and the third certainly increased the salience of the issue in a subsequent election.

They're hardly a routine part of the legislative process, but they absolutely have functioned as a useful emergency backstop in your lifetime.
It always amazes me when an interim Prime Minister tries to pull of changes like that (Kim)
 

Walpurgis

Banned
i forgot. i showed it to my brother to see if he knew anything about it. and he just threw it out.

edit: its says center for bio ethical reform. in the pic.
edit2: don't Google it.


yea i bet. but its still really weird coming home and seeing that.

Could someone describe the images to me and tell me what they are about? I have a weak stomach so I am afraid of clicking the links.
 
It's funny how this Mulcair story came out once the NDP started leading in polls.

I have a feeling that it came from the Liberal camp, especially considering that Soudas is essentially on the Liberal side now.

Blaming Soudas and the Liberals only makes sense if you ignore the stories about it from 2012, which were driven by Brian Topp's people. The NDP have only themselves -- and their leader's shamelessness -- to blame for the story being out there.


Also, Happy Canada Day everybody! Hopefully this is the last one with Stephen Harper.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Blaming Soudas and the Liberals only makes sense if you ignore the stories about it from 2012, which were driven by Brian Topp's people. The NDP have only themselves -- and their leader's shamelessness -- to blame for the story being out there.


Also, Happy Canada Day everybody! Hopefully this is the last one with Stephen Harper.

I think everybody ignored the stories from 2012, and everyone is going to ignore it this time around too because it really is a non-story. It's a pathetic attempt to stop the NDP momentum by whoever re-ignited it.

Here here to the last Canada Day under old Stevie! :D
 
I think everybody ignored the stories from 2012, and everyone is going to ignore it this time around too because it really is a non-story. It's a pathetic attempt to stop the NDP momentum by whoever re-ignited it.

Here here to the last Canada Day under old Stevie! :D

don't forget that Stevie was propped up by the NDP who tabled a motion of vote of no confidence against the Martin government

the 9 years of Stevie is on the NDP's hands

Happy Canada Day
 
I think everybody ignored the stories from 2012, and everyone is going to ignore it this time around too because it really is a non-story. It's a pathetic attempt to stop the NDP momentum by whoever re-ignited it.

Perhaps, but the fact every NDPer is loudly proclaiming what a non-story it is makes me think it's actually kind of a big deal. Whether it'll be noticed, I don't know, since the timing means no one is paying much attention, but I suspect that it cuts awfully close to the concerns a lot of NDPers had about Mulcair before he was picked as leader.
 
Apologies for the double post, but I just saw this and felt it was post-worthy: apparently the Conservatives have rejected John Crosbie's son as being their candidate in Avalon (Newfoundland). No reason out there yet, but...that's crazy, right? Stump? I know there's some conflict between the CPC and the old Red Tories, especially in the Maritimes/Atlantic Canada, but at this point I'd be shocked if the Conservatives win more than five seats east of Ontario.
 

Stage On

Member
What do you mean "haven't vetoed a bill since 1939"? In your lifetime, the Senate were instrumental in "vetoing" Kim Campbell's revised abortion restrictions; the Senate "vetoed" the original US-Canada Free Trade Agreement; and the Senate initially "vetoed" the GST before Mulroney used his reserve appointments. That's not exhaustive, but those are three major examples of how the course of Canadian politics was materially shaped by the Senate. The second directly caused an election, and the third certainly increased the salience of the issue in a subsequent election.

They're hardly a routine part of the legislative process, but they absolutely have functioned as a useful emergency backstop in your lifetime.

That's what I got from http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/senate/

The Senate has not vetoed a bill from the Commons since 1939. The Senate now very rarely makes amendments of principle. The amendments it does make to bills now are almost always related to drafting — to clarify, simplify and tidy proposed legislation.

In 1987 the Senate temporarily blocked Bill C22 (pharmaceutical patents) but eventually agreed to amendments. In 1990 the Liberal dominated Senate effectively blocked plans of the Conservative government to pass the legislation for the unpopular Goods and Services Tax (GST). This led Prime Minister Brian Mulroney to use his power to fill eight vacant senate seats, in order to ensure passage of the legislation in 1990.
 

thanks for the link

i will quote the seat representation:
Maritimes Division — 24 seats (New Brunswick—10, Nova Scotia—10, Prince Edward Island—4)
Quebec Division — 24 seats
Ontario Division — 24 seats
Western Division — 24 seats (British Columbia—6, Alberta—6, Saskatchewan—6, Manitoba—6)
There are also nine additional seats representing regions that were not part of the Divisions originally created at Confederation — (Newfoundland and Labrador—9, Northwest Territories—1, Yukon—1, Nunavut—1)
The two founding provinces are not going to give up their heftier representation
 

cntr

Banned
gutter and matthew trying so hard to convince us that the NDP sucks in this thread is hilarious

Not Canadian (yet), but I'm rooting for a vaguely socialist future for you guys!
 
gutter and matthew trying so hard to convince us that the NDP sucks in this thread is hilarious

Not Canadian (yet), but I'm rooting for a vaguely socialist future for you guys!

Mulcair took "socialist" out of the NDP constitution because he thought voters would disapprove, so not sure he's the right vessel for your dreams.

You nailed the vague part, though. Vague on trade, vague on international relations, vague on Canadian unity, vague on how much the NDP had to pay him to win him away from the Conservatives...yeah, I'd say "vague" pretty much captures the NDP's identity under Mulcair.
 
gutter and matthew trying so hard to convince us that the NDP sucks in this thread is hilarious

Not Canadian (yet), but I'm rooting for a vaguely socialist future for you guys!

all progressive things that you like in Canada (Federally) have been done so during Liberal governments.

yes, it is true that the NDP contributed greatly during Lester Pearson's Liberal minority

But all good things happaned under the rule of the Natural Governing Party of Canada aka The Liberals.

if it wasn't for Liberals, there wouldn't be regulations on banks, abortion would be illegal, gays wouldn't be able marry, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms would not have been adopted, no Canada Health Act and so on, no Maple Leaf flag
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
To be fair, heath care wouldn't exist without the CCF/NDP. Well, maybe it would have eventually, but it was Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan that got the ball rolling.
 
To be fair, heath care wouldn't exist without the CCF/NDP. Well, maybe it would have eventually, but it was Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan that got the ball rolling.

and this is why Tommy Douglas (grand father of Keifer Sutherland) is regarded has one of the Greatest Canadians
 

Tabris

Member
all progressive things that you like in Canada (Federally) have been done so during Liberal governments.

yes, it is true that the NDP contributed greatly during Lester Pearson's Liberal minority

But all good things happaned under the rule of the Natural Governing Party of Canada aka The Liberals.

if it wasn't for Liberals, there wouldn't be regulations on banks, abortion would be illegal, gays wouldn't be able marry, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms would not have been adopted, no Canada Health Act and so on, no Maple Leaf flag

Yes, but the Liberals of today aren't the Liberals of yesteryear. They are some freak Conservative hybrid. I don't know why, maybe their base in Ontario is getting more fiscal conservative? NDP are the new Liberals.
 
Yes, but the Liberals of today aren't the Liberals of yesteryear. They are some freak Conservative hybrid. I don't know why, maybe their base in Ontario is getting more fiscal conservative? NDP are the new Liberals.
You are confused with BC Liberals provincially but I wouldn't blame you.

You do need a balance of both, progressiveness on social issues and fiscal responsibility

someone had to clean after the mess Mulroney left over it wasn't pretty, it's true, cuts were made during Chretien-Martin but tough choices had to be made to put Canada back on track. And did they with consecutive Budgetary Surpluses.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The problem is that the Liberals have been out of power for so long and the NDP is resurgent to the point where no one knows what they stand for other than "we're not the Conservatives".
 

cntr

Banned
Mulcair took "socialist" out of the NDP constitution because he thought voters would disapprove, so not sure he's the right vessel for your dreams.

You nailed the vague part, though. Vague on trade, vague on international relations, vague on Canadian unity, vague on how much the NDP had to pay him to win him away from the Conservatives...yeah, I'd say "vague" pretty much captures the NDP's identity under Mulcair.
Vague on not admitting he laughs his ass of at people who believe propaganda wholeheartedly.

Fortunately, I have no such vagueness.

all progressive things that you like in Canada (Federally) have been done so during Liberal governments.

yes, it is true that the NDP contributed greatly during Lester Pearson's Liberal minority

But all good things happaned under the rule of the Natural Governing Party of Canada aka The Liberals.

if it wasn't for Liberals, there wouldn't be regulations on banks, abortion would be illegal, gays wouldn't be able marry, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms would not have been adopted, no Canada Health Act and so on, no Maple Leaf flag
Hm. I care for the rights of minorities.

So if I lived in the US, I should vote Republican, right? They ended slavery, didn't they?
 
Vague on not admitting he laughs his ass of at people who believe propaganda wholeheartedly.

Fortunately, I have no such vagueness.

Hm. I care for the rights of minorities.

So if I lived in the US, I should vote Republican, right? They ended slavery, didn't they?

The Liberals had massive support from French-Canadians from the turn of the 20th Century until the mid 1980s. Liberals always believed that Canada was founded by both the French and the English.

Liberals made Canada's official languages both English and French.

Liberals are also a big tent party that promotes multiculturalism. Reason being why in multicultural ridings in Montreal and Toronto, the Liberals dominate.

The Liberals created the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that protects minorities

Charter1.gif


ynsenapp09.jpg
 
Vague on not admitting he laughs his ass of at people who believe propaganda wholeheartedly.

Fortunately, I have no such vagueness.

Hm. I care for the rights of minorities.

So if I lived in the US, I should vote Republican, right? They ended slavery, didn't they?

...yeah, based on what little you've posted in this thread so far, I'm going to assume you're clueless about pretty much everything to do with Canada, its history or its politics.
 

Azih

Member
Calling the NDP vague is.. odd. They're strong on PR unlike Trudeau's "Well we'll study it again", and they're strong on C-51 whereas the Liberals have this impossible task of explaining what the heck their stance actually is. Hell the NDP bit back harder against Conservative attack ads on Justin Trudeau than Trudeau himself.

And insinuating that the NDP had to pay Mulcair off is kinda nuts. For one you're taking the word of a Conservative insider that Mulcair haggled on price. Secondly running for the NDP in Quebec in 2007 was not in any way something someone would do if they cared about the money involved.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Calling the NDP vague is.. odd. They're strong on PR unlike Trudeau's "Well we'll study it again", and they're strong on C-51 whereas the Liberals have this impossible task of explaining what the heck their stance actually is.

Yeah, I don't get it either. We've had 4 years now of the NDP actually taking hard stands on various things and getting called out for being too rigid (or, to use a 10 cent word, ideological). Now they're too vague, apparently, and who the hell knows what they stand for!?!

You know, except proportional representation, collective bargaining rights even against the government, not giving the security apparatus more power without oversight, not to mention their traditional love of the social safety net and balanced budgets through raising taxes (personally, I wish we had a party that believed in Keynesian economics, but oh well).
 
And insinuating that the NDP had to pay Mulcair off is kinda nuts. For one you're taking the word of a Conservative insider that Mulcair haggled on price. Secondly running for the NDP in Quebec in 2007 was not in any way something someone would do if they cared about the money involved.

So it was Conservatives spreading the story in 2012, too? Soudas talking on the record about it now may be new, but a lot of this stuff was out there already, and when the details first started coming out all signs pointed to it being spread by Topp's people. And in my (admittedly somewhat limited/junior) experience, it's not uncommon for parties to offer a salary to leaders until they become MPs. Considering he a) shopped himself around to four parties, and b) had remortgaged his home 11 times, I don't see why it's ridiculous to conclude that he went where the money was.

As for vagueness...there's this on taxes. There's the whole ploy of pledging to raise the minimum wage, when it's generally a provincial thing. There's the whole Senate abolition promise, which is built of lies. There's the fact they claim to be environmentalists while still being for the Energy East pipeline. Though I guess they occasionally cross over from being vague to being obfuscatory.

Every time someone says this in earnest, the Liberals are going to lose a voter. This shit is so condescending.

Yep. I had hoped his sudden NDP swing would take, so you guys could keep him. There's definitely an entitled streak that seems to seize the Liberals when they've been in power too long at the federal level. It's what caused Martin to think that becoming and remaining PM was secondary to crushing Chretien and gaining absolute control of the Liberal Party. It's what caused Trudeau/Turner to think they could just keep ramming through appointments and not have it come back to haunt them. It's why the Liberals ended up getting blown up by Diefenbaker -- their losing campaign slogan at the time was "You've never had it so good."

I mean, smugness may just be a symptom of any party that stays in power too long -- and to your point, it's just obnoxious coming from a supporter of the Party when they're in opposition -- but I don't think, historically, Conservatives become unbearably smug near the end of their terms. Smaller sample size, of course, but they tend more towards paranoid criminality.
 

gabbo

Member
I mean, smugness may just be a symptom of any party that stays in power too long -- and to your point, it's just obnoxious coming from a supporter of the Party when they're in opposition -- but I don't think, historically, Conservatives become unbearably smug near the end of their terms. Smaller sample size, of course, but they tend more towards paranoid criminality.

For what it's worth Harper has been unbearably smug since Day 1.
 
Has he been? While there are all kinds of negative adjectives and phrases I'd use to describe him (deceitful, paranoid, hyperpartisan, incompetent, belicose...), and he's surrounded himself with people like James Moore & Jason Kenney who most definitely are smug, I don't think I've ever thought of him as being smug himself. He's too blandly evil to be smug, though, obviously, I'm not going to quibble too much if anyone wants to label him that way.

Can you explain how it's lies? Note: it being difficult does not make it a lie.

As much as I dislike Mulcair, even I'll admit that he isn't stupid. As someone who's made a living in politics and law, he knows full well that abolishing the Senate requires unanimous consent from all the provinces. As such, implying that a mandate in October to form government is a mandate to abolish the Senate strikes me as being pretty deceitful.
 

maharg

idspispopd
As much as I dislike Mulcair, even I'll admit that he isn't stupid. As someone who's made a living in politics and law, he knows full well that abolishing the Senate requires unanimous consent from all the provinces. As such, implying that a mandate in October to form government is a mandate to abolish the Senate strikes me as being pretty deceitful.

It's certainly a mandate to work towards it. Again, it being difficult still does not make it a lie. You can argue that it's a dangerous promise, as gutter_trash is so fond of repeating over and over again, but a party promising to do a hard thing or negotiate with other governments towards some end is not a lie even if they don't succeed.

Alberta obviously has no ability to unilaterally expand Kinder Morgan or build Energy East. Does that mean Notley was 'lying' when she said they were what she'd focus on for expanding oil export capacity out of Alberta? No, because she's now in a position to negotiate for it.

It could be he *is* lying, and he'll drop it and suddenly appoint every vacant senate seat if he wins and pull a Harper, but at this point to call it a lie because you don't think they can pull it off when it's literally been a core element of their platform for pretty much their entire existence (afaik) is ridiculous.
 

Azih

Member
And in my (admittedly somewhat limited/junior) experience, it's not uncommon for parties to offer a salary to leaders until they become MPs. Considering he a) shopped himself around to four parties, and b) had remortgaged his home 11 times, I don't see why it's ridiculous to conclude that he went where the money was.
The NDP in 2007 was not by any stretch of the imagination 'where the money was' and an incredibly risky move by anyone to make. The Cons say they courted Mulcair (which helps make Mulcair seem centrist) but Mulcair didn't take the job because of money. Mulcair says it was because of policy. It's a he said/she said and it's weird that you're spreading what Soudas said like gospel.

What Mulcair does with his house and his mortgage is really irrelevant and is incredibly low electoral politics in any case and an ugly talking point that doesn't seem to be sticking. As it shouldn't.

And the cbc article ain't great. Mulcair does get numbers and benchmarks wrong and that's certainly dumb of him. But he is consistent and not at all vague about wanting to raise the corporate tax rate and that's a policy that I support. He is also not at all vague about the Senate. What he wants to do might be difficult to pull off, but that's not at all the same thing as being vague. It is also a policy that I support. They are also not vague at all about electoral reform or C51. Which are two other policies that I support.

And it's sad to me that the central Canadian government has weakened to the point that the feds actually working with the provinces on policy seems like 'vague lies'. The Canada Health Act is the feds taking an active role in health care which is the provinces responsibility and frankly we also need a national transit strategy of a similar bent. It's a good thing for me that Mulcair wants the federal government to start taking a leadership role on this after decades of Harper, and Martin before him, slashing federal funding for these kinds of initiatives.

Look, you guys are Liberal partisan, and I am a NDP partisan. But attacking Mulcair's personal finances and taking his opponent's word as God's own truth on what were private negotiations isn't good politics. I really hope we can stick to policy when talking here, not smear talking points.
 
In any case:

http://opencanada.org/features/blogs/dispatch/the-mulcair-doctrine/

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/kar...y-flaws-being-soft-on-separatism-not-one-them

literally found within seconds of googling

Based on what all you've posted in this thread so far, I'm going to assume you and gutter are clueless about pretty much everything to do with propaganda, not believing it wholeheartedly, and facts.

I see you have found two objective and non opinated web sites
sarcasm

young NDP supporters today are so dismissive of past accomplishments of former Liberal PMs. You guys need a history lesson
 

maharg

idspispopd
Based on what all you've posted in this thread so far, I'm going to assume you and gutter are clueless about pretty much everything to do with propaganda, not believing it wholeheartedly, and facts.

Am I the "you" in this? Because obviously everything a politician says is a sales pitch. Just waving your hands and saying "welp, none of them really believe what they're saying!" just isn't a terribly useful way to deal with it.

If the party I vote for doesn't follow through on their promises, I park my vote elsewhere. In the meantime, I'll give it to the party with the best pitch.
 

cntr

Banned
Am I the "you" in this? Because obviously everything a politician says is a sales pitch. Just waving your hands and saying "welp, none of them really believe what they're saying!" just isn't a terribly useful way to deal with it.

If the party I vote for doesn't follow through on their promises, I park my vote elsewhere. In the meantime, I'll give it to the party with the best pitch.
Sorry, I was referring to matthewwhatever. Wasn't clear. :p

I see you have found two objective and non opinated web sites
sarcasm

young NDP supporters today are so dismissive of past accomplishments of former Liberal PMs. You guys need a history lesson
Yes, I should disbelieve sites that express the opinions of the party in question if they're affiliated with that party.

That's not the same as wholeheartedly believing in "facts" said by the opposition, is it?
 
Sorry, I was referring to matthewwhatever. Wasn't clear. :p

Yes, I should disbelieve sites that express the opinions of the party in question if they're affiliated with that party.

That's not the same as wholeheartedly believing in "facts" said by the opposition, is it?

alternative news sites are not real news IMO. I rather do the rounds of the regulars;

I check CBC Newsworld, CTV News in English, RDI and LCN/TVA in French and check on La Presse and Journal de Montreal online.

Yes, even PKP owned media like Journal de Montreal and LCN/TVA, I tune in there to see how the wording is being spun on there.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
don't forget that Stevie was propped up by the NDP who tabled a motion of vote of no confidence against the Martin government

the 9 years of Stevie is on the NDP's hands

Happy Canada Day

You can blame the NDP for Harper just as much as you can blame the Liberals for him by them losing that election.

I don't think you remember how unpopular Paul Martin and the Liberal party was at the time. Even I, as a long time Liberal supporter, wasn't supporting him in that election.

Perhaps, but the fact every NDPer is loudly proclaiming what a non-story it is makes me think it's actually kind of a big deal. Whether it'll be noticed, I don't know, since the timing means no one is paying much attention, but I suspect that it cuts awfully close to the concerns a lot of NDPers had about Mulcair before he was picked as leader.

I highly doubt this will be on anyone's mind come this time next week. It's such a non-story and such a weak political smear that I'm surprised it even resurfaced. Even the media has dropped this non-story after a couple of days.
 

Azih

Member
Layton would have supported Martin if Martin had publicly proclaimed support for the universal health care system. It was an absurdly minor condition for support and Martin still didn't go for it for some reason I still can't fathom.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
pretty sure the 9 years of Harper is on the Liberals' hands for sponsorship followed by trotting out Paul goddamn Martin as leader

1: Forcing Chretien out because of US pressure
2: Paul Martin as leader
3: Ignatieff as leader
 
In any case:

http://opencanada.org/features/blogs/dispatch/the-mulcair-doctrine/

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/kar...y-flaws-being-soft-on-separatism-not-one-them

literally found within seconds of googling

Based on what all you've posted in this thread so far, I'm going to assume you and gutter are clueless about pretty much everything to do with propaganda, not believing it wholeheartedly, and facts.

I'm honestly not clear on what point you think you're making here. I see a 3-year-old story about Mulcair's vague foreign policy ideas from a few days after he won the leadership, and an opinion piece from 2013 that doesn't actually refute the central point the author is arguing against. If those are your "facts"...again, that speaks to the depth and breadth of your knowledge of the Canadian political climate.

And the cbc article ain't great. Mulcair does get numbers and benchmarks wrong and that's certainly dumb of him. But he is consistent and not at all vague about wanting to raise the corporate tax rate and that's a policy that I support. He is also not at all vague about the Senate. What he wants to do might be difficult to pull off, but that's not at all the same thing as being vague. It is also a policy that I support. They are also not vague at all about electoral reform or C51. Which are two other policies that I support.

And it's sad to me that the central Canadian government has weakened to the point that the feds actually working with the provinces on policy seems like 'vague lies'. The Canada Health Act is the feds taking an active role in health care which is the provinces responsibility and frankly we also need a national transit strategy of a similar bent. It's a good thing for me that Mulcair wants the federal government to start taking a leadership role on this after decades of Harper, and Martin before him, slashing federal funding for these kinds of initiatives.

Look, you guys are Liberal partisan, and I am a NDP partisan. But attacking Mulcair's personal finances and taking his opponent's word as God's own truth on what were private negotiations isn't good politics. I really hope we can stick to policy when talking here, not smear talking points.

1) RE: C51, we've already established how much stock you and I put in what Mulcair says they're going to do (a lot in your case, none at all in mine). But I will just add that others have noted that there's a whole lot more wiggle room in what the NDP is promising that you seem to suggest.

2) Agreed 100% on the need for more federal-provincial cooperation. They need to have a more coordinated approach on health, on transit, on cities: no argument from me there. But I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion at all. And I'm not saying that to be dismissive on this point -- I honestly don't see where this comes from. I did say that I thought the NDP were being deceitful when it came to their minimum wage promise, since it's a provincial issue, but beyond that...if the NDP are promising more First Ministers conferences and more emphasis on Canada as a confederation, I'm not going to criticize that. It's yet another area in which Harper has been such a thorough failure, it'd be hard for his successor to not be an improvement.

3) I also agree with you that we shouldn't be spreading smears or criticizing politicians' personal lives, but I don't think that personal finances are out-of-bounds when it comes to talking about someone who wants to be PM. It's not on the same level as, say, being a rabidly homophobic social conservative while getting your babysitter pregnant (to speak of an example where the Canadian political media took their separation of politics and personal lives way too far), but we're not talking about the strength of his marriage or whether he's secretly visiting sketchy massage parlours in his spare time (to speak of a case where Sun Media, at least, ignored the personal-political divide). You don't think that someone's ability to manage their own personal finances is at all connected to whether they're fit to be leading the country?

You can blame the NDP for Harper just as much as you can blame the Liberals for him by them losing that election.

I don't think you remember how unpopular Paul Martin and the Liberal party was at the time. Even I, as a long time Liberal supporter, wasn't supporting him in that election.

The Liberals deserve 100% of the blame for losing in 2006. Who cares if Layton supported a non-confidence vote? Martin decided that the best way to spend 2003 to 2006 was telling everyone that the Liberal Party was rotten and corrupt, and then he spent the 2006 election trying -- at least if you believe the "Liberal strategists" Paul Wells quoted in one of his Harper hagiographies -- to tank the Liberal poll numbers in the hopes of scaring people so much with the prospect of a Harper government that they'd flock back to the Liberals on election day. It was a stupid, stupid strategy in every respect imaginable, and they deserved to be booted from office for it.
 

cntr

Banned
I'm honestly not clear on what point you think you're making here. I see a 3-year-old story about Mulcair's vague foreign policy ideas from a few days after he won the leadership, and an opinion piece from 2013 that doesn't actually refute the central point the author is arguing against. If those are your "facts"...again, that speaks to the depth and breadth of your knowledge of the Canadian political climate.
You said the NDP was "vague" on certain issues. The question is whether they've said anything about those issues, not whether they're gonna work or happen.

I gave you links talking about their opinions on those issues.

What else, exactly, do you want?
 
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