Canadian Election

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Azih said:
I didn't watch about 45 mins of the debates because I had to go to the airport. But damn the Martin/Harper and Layton/Duceppe one on one sessions were so extremely dull.


<Duceppe> The Liberals suck.
<Layton> I agree boy do they suck.
<Duceppe> Oh yes indeed. Suck Suck Suck
<Layton> Definetly.
and... repeat.

and then

<Harper>Sponsorship Scandal! You're corrupt and wasteful!
<Martin>Gay Marriage! You're socially regressive!
<Harper>Sponsorship Scandal!
<Martin>Gay Marriage!
repeat.
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That was pretty much the jist of it. But you forgot to mention the constant interupting Layton did, and the putting words in people's mouths from Martin.
 
Harper the Calgary Sun in 2001 that "Canada is not a bilingual country. As a religion, bilingualism is the god that failed."
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That is the most retarded thing ever said. I assure you, putting harper in office will only aggravate the seperatist movement in quebec. And for all you french canadian haters, what would happen if France invaded canada, and tried to assimilate you. I'm not saying quebec should have more rights financially or anything. But it's a french speaking province. I voted liberal before, I'm still voting liberal.
 
The English debate was interesting, for quite a few reasons.

First, neither Martin nor Harper answered questions. Period. They answered in blind rhetoric. Martin asks Harper about using the notwithstanding clause, and Harper doesn't answer. Duceppe (Who was the only good debater) asks Martin about the Sponsorship Scandal...no answer. Harper gets asks on issues like abortion/gay rights, no answer. Martin gets asked about the Sponsorship Scandal again...and he doesn't answer.

Duceppe was the only good one, really. Layton had the Stepford Smile and an inability to know when he has a good point and just let it run. And I swear, he want sot fuck Leia or something, because he could NOT get over Star Wars. It's an issue, but not as important as he wants us to believe, plus Martin kept giving the weaponization of space answer anyways.

For the most part, it was everyone vs. Martin on Ethics, everyone vs. Harper on Social Issues, and then attacks on both on economic decisions, Martin for the past and Harper for the future.

Best moment for me was when Harper said gyrations. It was classic.

Still undecided, but nobody wowed me, that's for sure.
 
Gorgie said:
As for all the Atlantic Canadians, I'm sorry I offended you, as you guys have a wicked sense of humor. Nearly every show on CBC has people from the Maratimes. But my family got hit hard by the mad cow, we're not waiting for the government to hand us money. We're looking for new jobs, or even to start our own business. Believe it or not, way back when, the majority of Canadians were farmers, and somehow, they got over the transition to new industries. Really, all the seasonal fisherman have to no the waters are overfished, its time to look for new work. No one said it will be easy, but the will to live and thrive will help them succeed.
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Eh, farmers all over North America have benefited a LOT from government subsidies and tax cuts over the last century. In Alberta alone, for the first half of this century, our legislature was dominated with socialist parties that favoured farmers heavily (you can probably thank the dustbowl, the great depression, and then urbanization for that). It wasn't until our population started heavily centralizing in cities that our government turned into the ultraconservative (in the modern sense) dynasty it has now become.

Also, I hope you realize the Heritage Fund is an essentially liberal (Keynsian) policy. Real conservativism would have the government now lowering taxes as far as it could rather than saving any of that money for a bust cycle. And guess what the government will do with that money when we do go into a bust cycle: it'll subsidize public projects and farmers in order to create and maintain job levels.
 
Gorgie said:
I'd just like to say, yes, Klein cut a lot of services, but look at us, next year Alberta will have NO DEBT, and in fact, the Alberta goverment could pay off the debt right now, but instead lets the surplus collect interest in the Heritage funds. By saving money for when oil and gas prices are low, Alberta can whether the bust of the oil cycle.
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Actually, the province's projections are to have $2.7 billion in debt on the books at the end of the 2005-06 fiscal year. But Klein has said he would like to see it eliminated for the centennial (2005).

The whole Klein government is a mystery to me. I didn't leave Alberta because of Klein, but I could always pretend that I did :)

It boggles my mind how the government has the highest per-capita spending of any province, yet has post-secondary fees that continue to rise a health care system still under strain and regressive taxes through a variety of user fees (i.e.: health premiums).

The repayment of the debt and the "Sustainability Fund" are some of the major sticking points for me. As far as I'm concerned, the fund is really just a tool to keep some debt on the books in Alberta. The debt is Klein's dragon, and I don't think he wants to slay it until he's ready to leave politics. It's one issue that the Conservatives can milk forever... not that there's been much risk of losing power in homogenized Alberta.

Meanwhile, the government will continue to take it slow, pull the exact same crap Stephen Harper complained about Martin doing in lowballing the budget every year and it has been programs that have suffered. I wouldn't be surprised if they undervauled energy revenue by at least a billion dollars for the upcoming budget year.

Just for the record, I don't disagree with the philosophy of cutting the debt, or the idea that it was necessary to work towards. But I don't agree with the speed at which it happened, nor the fact that it's heaped a lot more burden on people who can't afford it than it did the average Albertan.

-SB
 
Yeah if we ever pay off the debt in Alberta Klein is out in a second, he's lucky that he's held on this long in such an NDP stronghold.

PS That line from Martin in the debate was awesome "Did your handlers tell you to talk all the time?".
 
I'm not sure if I get the sarcasm... I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting the Conservatives run any risk of losing the government post-debt:

"not that there's been much risk of losing power in homogenized Alberta."

But it is an issue they can keep generating political hay with. My theory is that Klein wants his time as premier to be as the killer of Alberta's public debt, and he'd like to go out on a note of "the debt is dead". Gorgie was absolutely right when he said the debt could have been retired by now.

-SB
 
To be honest, if you think the cuts were bad in Alberta, you should try living in Saskatchewan where even the conservatives are far left when it comes to spending money. The province was badly off when I left, but I can't believe how much worse it's become since. I went back for a friend's wedding in Regina, and it was horrible. I have no problems with stores closing because they're unsuccesful, but to find out entire malls had shut down was ridiculous. And according to him it's not long before your only job choices are going to be farming, in the service industry or working for the government.

So ya, were the spending cuts drastic? Definitely. Were they going to be required at some point? Yes. Otherwise you start to end up with the mess Saskatchewan has.

Also, Harper in the debate seemed to be pretty upfront about his stances. He said he believed in the traditional definition of marriage, and I have a feeling he probably doesn't completely approve of abortion. He also said he wouldn't use the notwithstanding clause on these issues if the courts decided one way or the other. Layton and Duceppe both said they were for same sex marriage and for abortion, while Martin pretty much just hid behind the charter of rights. Maybe we watched a different debate, but it was pretty easy to see where everyone stood on those issues. Although to be honest, I don't see how those should be major issues for this election anyway. There's bigger fish to fry for the federal government when it comes to issues of running the country.
 
Marijuana party candidate evicted for pot-laced cookies
Last Updated Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:35:13 EDT

VANCOUVER - A B.C. Supreme Court judge has ruled an East Vancouver landlord was entitled to evict a Marijuana Party candidate from his campaign office.

* INDEPTH: Marijuana

Marc Boyer

The landlord asked candidate Marc Boyer to leave because he started offering joints and pot cookies to new party members, and didn't have proper insurance either.

Boyer was running his campaign from the office that he also used to dispense medical marijuana – even offering cannabis cookies to anyone who made a $4 donation.

* RELATED: Marijuana Party gets campaign rolling with seed money

"There's no illegal activity whatsoever," he said.

"We will be doing the medical distribution of cannabis to people with registered medical need. There is no crime in that activity, upheld by several major court decisions."

But many of the condo owners who live above the office didn't like the idea. And the landlord says she only agreed to the office being used for election activity.

The landlord and the building manager also say the Marijuana Party activists were aggressive at times, and were bothering other tenants in the building.

Despite the ruling, Boyer says he isn't giving up his election campaign – nor his campaign to have more medical marijuana facilities opened in Vancouver.

He says, if nothing else, the dispute will focus attention on the increasing public demand for medical marijuana.
Click to expand...

heh

Did he lose your vote Nikashi?
 
Is it me, or is the whole health care thing becoming completely overblown? After the debate none of the leaders seem to be talking about anything else.

I mean sure, it's a big issue, probably the biggest, but there are so many others. Education, foreign policy, immigration, the environment, even the friggin' economy seems to be put aside!

*still undecided*
 
explodet said:
I mean sure, it's a big issue, probably the biggest, but there are so many others. Education, foreign policy, immigration, the environment, even the friggin' economy seems to be put aside!
Click to expand...

I'm glad for it...gets Harper off of his real Accountability kick. I'd rather have widespread interest in health care than in this accountability thing. It's important, but not as important as any of those topics you mentioned.
 
Toronto Star:
The federal election campaign took on a bizarre and ugly tone today, after the Conservative camp quickly withdrew, then mistakenly reissued, a news release that suggested Liberal Leader Paul Martin favours child pornography.
Then the release came out with a toned-down headline.

Martin reacted angrily against Conservative Leader Stephen Harper:

"This is personal. I'm a father; I'm a husband. He crossed the line and he should apologize."

Harper offered a half-hearted mea culpa, saying the headline on the initial release was too strong.

"I've had them re-issue the heading," he said.

But he didn't apologize for anything else:

"I'm not going to, in any way, give the Liberal party any break on its record on child pornography. It's disgraceful. They have had multiple opportunities to do something about it and they have systematically refused."

The attack and the retraction were the first undisciplined events from Harper's Conservative headquarters in what had been a well-controlled campaign.

The news release with the headline "Paul Martin Supports Child Pornography?" was sent to media outlets across the country at 3:30 p.m. EDT today and recalled at 4:35 p.m.

"Conservative Party would like to recall the message, `Paul Martin Supports Child Pornography?,"' the recall said.

The campaign war room then sent the initial accusatory release out again at 4:49 p.m., and recalled it a few seconds later. Party officials blamed that slip on an e-mailing error.

A third release was then sent, which changed the headline to read: "How tough is Paul Martin on pornography?"
Click to expand...


National Post:
Sensing a full-blown crisis in his well-controlled election campaign, Stephen Harper moved quickly Friday to order a the withdrawal of an ill-considered e-mail suggesting Paul Martin was soft on child porn.

But the Tory leader maintained he still doesn't trust a Martin government to hit hard enough against child pornography. A top Tory strategist blamed the e-mail, which asked "Does Paul Martin support child porn?" on over-caffeinated youngsters in the party's election war room who've been working 20 hours a day for close to a year.

The strategist said the Conservative headquarters will likely be forced to spend several precious days apologizing for the error as the campaign winds down to June 28.

Liberals had been sputtering in frustration at the disciplined campaign run by Harper's Conservatives.

Some MPs and Harper supporters have dabbled in hot water, but Harper seemed to be wearing a wet suit and didn't get splashed - until Friday.

The controversial release was published, retracted, published and retracted again, then replaced with a milder version in an extraordinary display of disarray.

An earlier version aimed at the NDP was not recalled, the Tory camp said, because it was clear enough.

The headline on it was, "The NDP caucus supports child porn?"

NDP Leader Jack Layton's response was low-key.

"It's ridiculous," he said in Regina. "What we should do is calm down here and try to work together to try and prevent the horrific tragedy that took place by taking action."
Click to expand...

... words fail me.
 
"Abe Lincoln eats babies..."

That's what comes to mind here, it really is. Ah, Clone High.

How DID they get his spaghetti video...oh right, Joan. Wait...maybe Shelia slipped Harper footage...whoa.

This is fucked up.
 
All political parties suck! It doesn't matter who's in charge, it will be impossible for them to be 100% accountable to the citizens.
 
With Monday just around the corner, I hope you guys are all decided on who you're going to vote for ! I have decided to vote for the NDP after several days of investigation. I don't want Gordon in BC, and the Conservatives are too optimistic about their agenda, which will inevitably fail. Green Party isn't going to do anything... NDP just seems like the right choice to me.
 
Stuck between the NDP and LIbEralS in my riding. I would have voted for the marijuana party if they had a canidate running in my riding.
 
Remain undecided between the NDP and Liberal Candidates in my riding.

Geoff Regan, Minister of Oceans and Fisheries, for the Liberals, has been a solid MP, gotten Halifax some additional funding to de-crap our harbour, and is generally in a position to likely keep A cabinet spot in a Liberal minority (If, for some reason, Martin agrees to have NDP in the Cabinet, I expect one of them to be Fisheries, considering their havens are on either coast).

The NDP Cabinet is a local personality, does the IWK Telethon every year. I consider myself more of an NDP supporter, but I really wasn't sure he'd be a good MP for the riding. Then, a former Liberal MP said that the guy would be a great MP. Little does he know, that almost convinced me it was worth my time. I like the NDP platform more (Anything that could save me $750 on Tuition works for me, if they can work with the Liberals on that one) and feel like I could actually have my vote count.

There have already been reports in the local paper that the Tories have, in fact, not even considered my riding winnable. When I read this, I did a happy dance. At the same time, they say that it's Regan's to lose, however it is still a two horse race. NDP sees it as a winnable seat, and I think that's how I'm leaning. But, right now, we'll see how it all turns out. Monday Night will be most interesting, I think.
 
http://www.politicswatch.com/voteselectorquiz2004.html

The results from that survey made up my mind. Here are my results:

# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 71)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 48)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 5)
 
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 50)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 40)
 
Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 82)
Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 55)
Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 9)

I'm convinced its NDP Propaganda, because we've all gotten Layton at 100.

About what I expected. although Harper's a little high. ;)
 
Suranga3 said:
Memles and I have pretty much the same results. Great minds think alike.
Click to expand...

Indeed...although it isn't NDP Propaganda. My Anti-NDP run ended up with Layton at Zero, so it's not foolproof.
 
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 58)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 50)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 33)

I don't know who to vote for yet but certainly not Liberals, I hope to god people are gonna wake up and not vote for them once again tomorrow. I want anyone 'cept them to come into power Monday :(
 
I would like to see a liberal/npd minority government. Hopefully, there will be a referendum on proportional representation and legalization of marijuana soon.
 
The great thing about a minority that involves the NDP is that Layton has said working on electoral reform is one of the keys to receiving NDP support in a minority situation.

-SB
 
Malakhov said:
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 58)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 50)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 33)

I don't know who to vote for yet but certainly not Liberals, I hope to god people are gonna wake up and not vote for them once again tomorrow. I want anyone 'cept them to come into power Monday :(
Click to expand...

I'm going to sound like a psychic here. *Puts on Crazy Hat*

Your scores tell me that you seem to favor the left wing of the Canadian political system, and would thus me more suited by a Liberal or NDP government. You feel attached to social programs and to the future of Canada not being decided by Conservatives. Oooooooohhhhh.

Don't vote for the conservatives just because you don't want the Liberals in power. Vote with your personal preference, and if that means voting NDP in order to push your feelings but have a security against the Liberals, then do so. Don't vote in spite.
 
Memles said:
I'm convinced its NDP Propaganda, because we've all gotten Layton at 100.
Click to expand...

eh
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 100)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 89)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 61)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 22)

Perhaps... I don't even live in Quebec and NDP is a close second.
 
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 68)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 53)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 11)

I already voted in advance polling for the NDP. I really really want a Liberal/NDP coalition government. Proportional representation is way more important than an elected senate, and the NDP's national retrofit program just makes sense in every way.

While it's nice to see Paul Martin swinging hard to the left his track record is a very conservative one.
 
I'm reminded of the old curse "May you live in interesting times."

I worry that the next 4 years or so will be very interesting.
 
I think Paul Martin is a very decent individual. He's too conservative for my tastes but he performs very very well in international situations and hey, his rhetoric is good. The Liberal Party of Canada on the other hand.... it's got problems.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, quite a few of the problems were caused by Martin's asstacular handling of the transition of power. Hrm.
 
Azih said:
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, quite a few of the problems were caused by Martin's asstacular handling of the transition of power. Hrm.
Click to expand...
The whole Chretien vs. Martin bullshit was extremely unnecessary - and it may be coming back to bite Martin in the ass. A lot of high-profile Liberals got pushed out because of the power struggle - Sheila Copps, John Manley, Alan Rock - and those names could be helping the party right now with the election.

Of course on the flipside, a few of the high-profile Conservatives are those with their foots planted firmly between their lips.
 
Tory Slap

...Concentrating on his central campaign messages, Harper's speech made no mention of comments made by an elder statesman of the former Progressive Conservative party.

In an interview with the Canadian Press, Senator Lowell Murray said Harper's new party has wiped out all progressive elements in favour of a "reprehensible right-wing movement."

The old Tories were "a moderate, centrist influence on Canadian politics," Murray told CP.

"But the longer this campaign goes on, the more we are seeing that the new Conservative party is not any of those things."

Murray -- who alongside former Tory leader Joe Clark has been an outspoken critic of the new party since it was formed in a merger of the Tories and Canadian Alliance -- echoed the warnings of Liberal campaigners.

"Harper has been fudging and fudging and fudging... trying to present a moderate, centrist face," he said....
 
Malakhov said:
If you want our country to keep heading into the ground :)
Click to expand...

Okay...Chretien set up a gun registry that, while definitely flawed, was with some sort of good intention. And then the sponsorship scandal was a bad mistake, but how is that driving the country into the ground. It may be a fair amount of money, but it was a pittance in the big picture. They haven't shown any other terrible weaknesses. They're promoting the plan for cities that the mayors all agree on, they're dedicated to health care...how are they driving us into the ground? Hell, their revenue projections were actually modest, meaning they're not spending outside their means in any way. For the most part, I can honestly say that they haven't done anything so bad to me I feel the country is heading into the ground.

Am I voting for them? Maybe. Maybe not. But they are not, in any way, destroying Canada.
 
Those French Canadians in Quebec are too demanding and are always asking for more money because they think they're special. Guess what ? We're all Canadians, and there are more Canadians in British Columbia and Alberta than Quebec. SO START SPENDING MORE MONEY AT WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE AND NOT BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE SPECIAL (aka French Canadians). =
Click to expand...

What do you mean we're special? Is it because people thinks that all Quebecers are separatists? Is it because we're the only province where both English and French can be spoken freely? Yes, I am exagerating but your argument is so weak.

There are more Canadians in BC and AB than in QC.

Sorry, not according to this:
http://www.canadainfolink.ca/charttwo.htm

As of October 2003:
1- Québec: 7,503,502
2- AB: 3,164,400
3- BC: 4,158,649

Add 2+3, close, but no cigar. Try again sometime.

I'm voting Bloc. I am not separatist but I'm sure not voting for Stephen Harper. He has ideas which aren't right for me. As for Paul Martin, I think his party deserves a little beating here in La Belle Province but I would prefer him in a minority government. As for Jack Layton, I like the guy but nobody represents for the NPD in my sector.
 
I won't be voting Liberal. Billions of dollars isn't a pittance, and it's precisely that kind of thinking that allows for corruption inthe first place. A shame, because Paul Martin has the kind of gravitas that a PM needs, but that party is rotten to the core.

The Conservatives aren't the ones of old, which is a shame (Mulroney aside). Too many old-guard Reform racists still in the fold. Bring back Joe Clark!

The Greens? Still marginal.

Funnily enough, even though I disagree with them vehemently on a number of ideological and finance-related issues, the only party I could vote for without holding my nose in disgust would be the New Democrats. Having them hold the balance of power in a minority government would be ideal - enough of a presence to push electoral reform and act as a social conscience, but keeping their hands out of government finances.

Tough decision this year - but as long as the Liberals get the spanking they deserve at the polls, I can live with them as a minority government. Teach those arrogant trough-feeders some humility.
 
The Ipsos-Reid seat-projection model predicts that this kind of result would give the Conservatives about 117 seats and the Liberals about 101 on Monday.

The kingmaker would likely be the Bloc, since the NDP is not expected to win enough seats to give either the Liberals or the Conservatives control of the House of Commons. A working majority requires 155 seats in the next Parliament, which will have 308 members.
Click to expand...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...626.wxelecpoll26/BNStory/specialDecision2004/

A Conservative-Bloc Coalition doesn't seem to be popular with Canadians.
 
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