ManDudeChild
Member
Azih said:
That was pretty much the jist of it. But you forgot to mention the constant interupting Layton did, and the putting words in people's mouths from Martin.
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Canadian Election
- Thread starter Gorgie
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That was pretty much the jist of it. But you forgot to mention the constant interupting Layton did, and the putting words in people's mouths from Martin.
The Bookerman
Member
That is the most retarded thing ever said. I assure you, putting harper in office will only aggravate the seperatist movement in quebec. And for all you french canadian haters, what would happen if France invaded canada, and tried to assimilate you. I'm not saying quebec should have more rights financially or anything. But it's a french speaking province. I voted liberal before, I'm still voting liberal.
The English debate was interesting, for quite a few reasons.
First, neither Martin nor Harper answered questions. Period. They answered in blind rhetoric. Martin asks Harper about using the notwithstanding clause, and Harper doesn't answer. Duceppe (Who was the only good debater) asks Martin about the Sponsorship Scandal...no answer. Harper gets asks on issues like abortion/gay rights, no answer. Martin gets asked about the Sponsorship Scandal again...and he doesn't answer.
Duceppe was the only good one, really. Layton had the Stepford Smile and an inability to know when he has a good point and just let it run. And I swear, he want sot fuck Leia or something, because he could NOT get over Star Wars. It's an issue, but not as important as he wants us to believe, plus Martin kept giving the weaponization of space answer anyways.
For the most part, it was everyone vs. Martin on Ethics, everyone vs. Harper on Social Issues, and then attacks on both on economic decisions, Martin for the past and Harper for the future.
Best moment for me was when Harper said gyrations. It was classic.
Still undecided, but nobody wowed me, that's for sure.
First, neither Martin nor Harper answered questions. Period. They answered in blind rhetoric. Martin asks Harper about using the notwithstanding clause, and Harper doesn't answer. Duceppe (Who was the only good debater) asks Martin about the Sponsorship Scandal...no answer. Harper gets asks on issues like abortion/gay rights, no answer. Martin gets asked about the Sponsorship Scandal again...and he doesn't answer.
Duceppe was the only good one, really. Layton had the Stepford Smile and an inability to know when he has a good point and just let it run. And I swear, he want sot fuck Leia or something, because he could NOT get over Star Wars. It's an issue, but not as important as he wants us to believe, plus Martin kept giving the weaponization of space answer anyways.
For the most part, it was everyone vs. Martin on Ethics, everyone vs. Harper on Social Issues, and then attacks on both on economic decisions, Martin for the past and Harper for the future.
Best moment for me was when Harper said gyrations. It was classic.
Still undecided, but nobody wowed me, that's for sure.
Gorgie said:
Eh, farmers all over North America have benefited a LOT from government subsidies and tax cuts over the last century. In Alberta alone, for the first half of this century, our legislature was dominated with socialist parties that favoured farmers heavily (you can probably thank the dustbowl, the great depression, and then urbanization for that). It wasn't until our population started heavily centralizing in cities that our government turned into the ultraconservative (in the modern sense) dynasty it has now become.
Also, I hope you realize the Heritage Fund is an essentially liberal (Keynsian) policy. Real conservativism would have the government now lowering taxes as far as it could rather than saving any of that money for a bust cycle. And guess what the government will do with that money when we do go into a bust cycle: it'll subsidize public projects and farmers in order to create and maintain job levels.
Gorgie said:
Actually, the province's projections are to have $2.7 billion in debt on the books at the end of the 2005-06 fiscal year. But Klein has said he would like to see it eliminated for the centennial (2005).
The whole Klein government is a mystery to me. I didn't leave Alberta because of Klein, but I could always pretend that I did
It boggles my mind how the government has the highest per-capita spending of any province, yet has post-secondary fees that continue to rise a health care system still under strain and regressive taxes through a variety of user fees (i.e.: health premiums).
The repayment of the debt and the "Sustainability Fund" are some of the major sticking points for me. As far as I'm concerned, the fund is really just a tool to keep some debt on the books in Alberta. The debt is Klein's dragon, and I don't think he wants to slay it until he's ready to leave politics. It's one issue that the Conservatives can milk forever... not that there's been much risk of losing power in homogenized Alberta.
Meanwhile, the government will continue to take it slow, pull the exact same crap Stephen Harper complained about Martin doing in lowballing the budget every year and it has been programs that have suffered. I wouldn't be surprised if they undervauled energy revenue by at least a billion dollars for the upcoming budget year.
Just for the record, I don't disagree with the philosophy of cutting the debt, or the idea that it was necessary to work towards. But I don't agree with the speed at which it happened, nor the fact that it's heaped a lot more burden on people who can't afford it than it did the average Albertan.
-SB
I'm not sure if I get the sarcasm... I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting the Conservatives run any risk of losing the government post-debt:
"not that there's been much risk of losing power in homogenized Alberta."
But it is an issue they can keep generating political hay with. My theory is that Klein wants his time as premier to be as the killer of Alberta's public debt, and he'd like to go out on a note of "the debt is dead". Gorgie was absolutely right when he said the debt could have been retired by now.
-SB
"not that there's been much risk of losing power in homogenized Alberta."
But it is an issue they can keep generating political hay with. My theory is that Klein wants his time as premier to be as the killer of Alberta's public debt, and he'd like to go out on a note of "the debt is dead". Gorgie was absolutely right when he said the debt could have been retired by now.
-SB
warabi-mochi
Member
To be honest, if you think the cuts were bad in Alberta, you should try living in Saskatchewan where even the conservatives are far left when it comes to spending money. The province was badly off when I left, but I can't believe how much worse it's become since. I went back for a friend's wedding in Regina, and it was horrible. I have no problems with stores closing because they're unsuccesful, but to find out entire malls had shut down was ridiculous. And according to him it's not long before your only job choices are going to be farming, in the service industry or working for the government.
So ya, were the spending cuts drastic? Definitely. Were they going to be required at some point? Yes. Otherwise you start to end up with the mess Saskatchewan has.
Also, Harper in the debate seemed to be pretty upfront about his stances. He said he believed in the traditional definition of marriage, and I have a feeling he probably doesn't completely approve of abortion. He also said he wouldn't use the notwithstanding clause on these issues if the courts decided one way or the other. Layton and Duceppe both said they were for same sex marriage and for abortion, while Martin pretty much just hid behind the charter of rights. Maybe we watched a different debate, but it was pretty easy to see where everyone stood on those issues. Although to be honest, I don't see how those should be major issues for this election anyway. There's bigger fish to fry for the federal government when it comes to issues of running the country.
So ya, were the spending cuts drastic? Definitely. Were they going to be required at some point? Yes. Otherwise you start to end up with the mess Saskatchewan has.
Also, Harper in the debate seemed to be pretty upfront about his stances. He said he believed in the traditional definition of marriage, and I have a feeling he probably doesn't completely approve of abortion. He also said he wouldn't use the notwithstanding clause on these issues if the courts decided one way or the other. Layton and Duceppe both said they were for same sex marriage and for abortion, while Martin pretty much just hid behind the charter of rights. Maybe we watched a different debate, but it was pretty easy to see where everyone stood on those issues. Although to be honest, I don't see how those should be major issues for this election anyway. There's bigger fish to fry for the federal government when it comes to issues of running the country.
Is it me, or is the whole health care thing becoming completely overblown? After the debate none of the leaders seem to be talking about anything else.
I mean sure, it's a big issue, probably the biggest, but there are so many others. Education, foreign policy, immigration, the environment, even the friggin' economy seems to be put aside!
*still undecided*
I mean sure, it's a big issue, probably the biggest, but there are so many others. Education, foreign policy, immigration, the environment, even the friggin' economy seems to be put aside!
*still undecided*
BigJonsson
Member
Next the Conservatives are going to call Martin a reptilian kitten eater from another planet!
http://torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...089&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154
Voters thinks everyone sucks!
NDP gains
Voters thinks everyone sucks!
NDP gains
With Monday just around the corner, I hope you guys are all decided on who you're going to vote for ! I have decided to vote for the NDP after several days of investigation. I don't want Gordon in BC, and the Conservatives are too optimistic about their agenda, which will inevitably fail. Green Party isn't going to do anything... NDP just seems like the right choice to me.
Remain undecided between the NDP and Liberal Candidates in my riding.
Geoff Regan, Minister of Oceans and Fisheries, for the Liberals, has been a solid MP, gotten Halifax some additional funding to de-crap our harbour, and is generally in a position to likely keep A cabinet spot in a Liberal minority (If, for some reason, Martin agrees to have NDP in the Cabinet, I expect one of them to be Fisheries, considering their havens are on either coast).
The NDP Cabinet is a local personality, does the IWK Telethon every year. I consider myself more of an NDP supporter, but I really wasn't sure he'd be a good MP for the riding. Then, a former Liberal MP said that the guy would be a great MP. Little does he know, that almost convinced me it was worth my time. I like the NDP platform more (Anything that could save me $750 on Tuition works for me, if they can work with the Liberals on that one) and feel like I could actually have my vote count.
There have already been reports in the local paper that the Tories have, in fact, not even considered my riding winnable. When I read this, I did a happy dance. At the same time, they say that it's Regan's to lose, however it is still a two horse race. NDP sees it as a winnable seat, and I think that's how I'm leaning. But, right now, we'll see how it all turns out. Monday Night will be most interesting, I think.
Geoff Regan, Minister of Oceans and Fisheries, for the Liberals, has been a solid MP, gotten Halifax some additional funding to de-crap our harbour, and is generally in a position to likely keep A cabinet spot in a Liberal minority (If, for some reason, Martin agrees to have NDP in the Cabinet, I expect one of them to be Fisheries, considering their havens are on either coast).
The NDP Cabinet is a local personality, does the IWK Telethon every year. I consider myself more of an NDP supporter, but I really wasn't sure he'd be a good MP for the riding. Then, a former Liberal MP said that the guy would be a great MP. Little does he know, that almost convinced me it was worth my time. I like the NDP platform more (Anything that could save me $750 on Tuition works for me, if they can work with the Liberals on that one) and feel like I could actually have my vote count.
There have already been reports in the local paper that the Tories have, in fact, not even considered my riding winnable. When I read this, I did a happy dance. At the same time, they say that it's Regan's to lose, however it is still a two horse race. NDP sees it as a winnable seat, and I think that's how I'm leaning. But, right now, we'll see how it all turns out. Monday Night will be most interesting, I think.
http://www.politicswatch.com/voteselectorquiz2004.html
The results from that survey made up my mind. Here are my results:
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 71)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 48)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 5)
The results from that survey made up my mind. Here are my results:
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 71)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 48)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 5)
Ronald_mcd
Member
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 50)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 40)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 50)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 40)
Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 82)
Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 55)
Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 9)
I'm convinced its NDP Propaganda, because we've all gotten Layton at 100.
About what I expected. although Harper's a little high.
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 82)
Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 55)
Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 9)
I'm convinced its NDP Propaganda, because we've all gotten Layton at 100.
About what I expected. although Harper's a little high.
Malakhov
Banned
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 58)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 50)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 33)
I don't know who to vote for yet but certainly not Liberals, I hope to god people are gonna wake up and not vote for them once again tomorrow. I want anyone 'cept them to come into power Monday
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 58)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 50)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 33)
I don't know who to vote for yet but certainly not Liberals, I hope to god people are gonna wake up and not vote for them once again tomorrow. I want anyone 'cept them to come into power Monday
Malakhov said:# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 58)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 50)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 33)
I don't know who to vote for yet but certainly not Liberals, I hope to god people are gonna wake up and not vote for them once again tomorrow. I want anyone 'cept them to come into power Monday
I'm going to sound like a psychic here. *Puts on Crazy Hat*
Your scores tell me that you seem to favor the left wing of the Canadian political system, and would thus me more suited by a Liberal or NDP government. You feel attached to social programs and to the future of Canada not being decided by Conservatives. Oooooooohhhhh.
Don't vote for the conservatives just because you don't want the Liberals in power. Vote with your personal preference, and if that means voting NDP in order to push your feelings but have a security against the Liberals, then do so. Don't vote in spite.
videogamer
Banned
Memles said:
eh
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 100)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 89)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 61)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 22)
Perhaps... I don't even live in Quebec and NDP is a close second.
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 68)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 53)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 11)
I already voted in advance polling for the NDP. I really really want a Liberal/NDP coalition government. Proportional representation is way more important than an elected senate, and the NDP's national retrofit program just makes sense in every way.
While it's nice to see Paul Martin swinging hard to the left his track record is a very conservative one.
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 68)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 53)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 11)
I already voted in advance polling for the NDP. I really really want a Liberal/NDP coalition government. Proportional representation is way more important than an elected senate, and the NDP's national retrofit program just makes sense in every way.
While it's nice to see Paul Martin swinging hard to the left his track record is a very conservative one.
I think Paul Martin is a very decent individual. He's too conservative for my tastes but he performs very very well in international situations and hey, his rhetoric is good. The Liberal Party of Canada on the other hand.... it's got problems.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, quite a few of the problems were caused by Martin's asstacular handling of the transition of power. Hrm.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it, quite a few of the problems were caused by Martin's asstacular handling of the transition of power. Hrm.
The whole Chretien vs. Martin bullshit was extremely unnecessary - and it may be coming back to bite Martin in the ass. A lot of high-profile Liberals got pushed out because of the power struggle - Sheila Copps, John Manley, Alan Rock - and those names could be helping the party right now with the election.Azih said:
Of course on the flipside, a few of the high-profile Conservatives are those with their foots planted firmly between their lips.
Tory Slap
...Concentrating on his central campaign messages, Harper's speech made no mention of comments made by an elder statesman of the former Progressive Conservative party.
In an interview with the Canadian Press, Senator Lowell Murray said Harper's new party has wiped out all progressive elements in favour of a "reprehensible right-wing movement."
The old Tories were "a moderate, centrist influence on Canadian politics," Murray told CP.
"But the longer this campaign goes on, the more we are seeing that the new Conservative party is not any of those things."
Murray -- who alongside former Tory leader Joe Clark has been an outspoken critic of the new party since it was formed in a merger of the Tories and Canadian Alliance -- echoed the warnings of Liberal campaigners.
"Harper has been fudging and fudging and fudging... trying to present a moderate, centrist face," he said....
...Concentrating on his central campaign messages, Harper's speech made no mention of comments made by an elder statesman of the former Progressive Conservative party.
In an interview with the Canadian Press, Senator Lowell Murray said Harper's new party has wiped out all progressive elements in favour of a "reprehensible right-wing movement."
The old Tories were "a moderate, centrist influence on Canadian politics," Murray told CP.
"But the longer this campaign goes on, the more we are seeing that the new Conservative party is not any of those things."
Murray -- who alongside former Tory leader Joe Clark has been an outspoken critic of the new party since it was formed in a merger of the Tories and Canadian Alliance -- echoed the warnings of Liberal campaigners.
"Harper has been fudging and fudging and fudging... trying to present a moderate, centrist face," he said....
Malakhov said:If you want our country to keep heading into the ground
Okay...Chretien set up a gun registry that, while definitely flawed, was with some sort of good intention. And then the sponsorship scandal was a bad mistake, but how is that driving the country into the ground. It may be a fair amount of money, but it was a pittance in the big picture. They haven't shown any other terrible weaknesses. They're promoting the plan for cities that the mayors all agree on, they're dedicated to health care...how are they driving us into the ground? Hell, their revenue projections were actually modest, meaning they're not spending outside their means in any way. For the most part, I can honestly say that they haven't done anything so bad to me I feel the country is heading into the ground.
Am I voting for them? Maybe. Maybe not. But they are not, in any way, destroying Canada.
suikodan
Member
What do you mean we're special? Is it because people thinks that all Quebecers are separatists? Is it because we're the only province where both English and French can be spoken freely? Yes, I am exagerating but your argument is so weak.
There are more Canadians in BC and AB than in QC.
Sorry, not according to this:
http://www.canadainfolink.ca/charttwo.htm
As of October 2003:
1- Québec: 7,503,502
2- AB: 3,164,400
3- BC: 4,158,649
Add 2+3, close, but no cigar. Try again sometime.
I'm voting Bloc. I am not separatist but I'm sure not voting for Stephen Harper. He has ideas which aren't right for me. As for Paul Martin, I think his party deserves a little beating here in La Belle Province but I would prefer him in a minority government. As for Jack Layton, I like the guy but nobody represents for the NPD in my sector.
I won't be voting Liberal. Billions of dollars isn't a pittance, and it's precisely that kind of thinking that allows for corruption inthe first place. A shame, because Paul Martin has the kind of gravitas that a PM needs, but that party is rotten to the core.
The Conservatives aren't the ones of old, which is a shame (Mulroney aside). Too many old-guard Reform racists still in the fold. Bring back Joe Clark!
The Greens? Still marginal.
Funnily enough, even though I disagree with them vehemently on a number of ideological and finance-related issues, the only party I could vote for without holding my nose in disgust would be the New Democrats. Having them hold the balance of power in a minority government would be ideal - enough of a presence to push electoral reform and act as a social conscience, but keeping their hands out of government finances.
Tough decision this year - but as long as the Liberals get the spanking they deserve at the polls, I can live with them as a minority government. Teach those arrogant trough-feeders some humility.
The Conservatives aren't the ones of old, which is a shame (Mulroney aside). Too many old-guard Reform racists still in the fold. Bring back Joe Clark!
The Greens? Still marginal.
Funnily enough, even though I disagree with them vehemently on a number of ideological and finance-related issues, the only party I could vote for without holding my nose in disgust would be the New Democrats. Having them hold the balance of power in a minority government would be ideal - enough of a presence to push electoral reform and act as a social conscience, but keeping their hands out of government finances.
Tough decision this year - but as long as the Liberals get the spanking they deserve at the polls, I can live with them as a minority government. Teach those arrogant trough-feeders some humility.
videogamer
Banned
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...626.wxelecpoll26/BNStory/specialDecision2004/
A Conservative-Bloc Coalition doesn't seem to be popular with Canadians.
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