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[Gorgie]

I love the fact that Martin feels its our Canadian patriotic duty to pay taxes, yet moves his family corportation headquaters, Canadian Steamboats and Stuff, so he can avoid taxes.

Harper +1

It would either be Conservative or NDP, and I just favor the right more than left, its nothing personal to the parties.

Off topic, can't believe this old ass thread was bumped.

 

[NetMapel]

I just don't see why anybody from provinces other than Quebec would want to vote for Bloc. I am beyond shock to see that there are plenty of people here in British Columbia alone who support the Conservatives/Bloc combination.

Anyways, here's a link which you may find interesting about each party's agenda on specific issues. http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2004/static/issues/issues.html
Oh yeah, for anyone interested, here's http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2004/static/debate/main_frameset.html the debate video. Extremely halirious.

 

[Pachinko]

jeez, election is tommorow.


You know, I dont' want to vote liberal, they fucked up this country pretty bad and paul martin couldnt' handle a few million with his old job so he sure has shit shouldnt' be in charge of the whole country for 2-3 years.

On the other hand, I am a liberal minded person, if someone wants to have a gay marriage or an abortion, let them. That only really leaves NDP and if I vote for them I may as well not vote at all.

 

[Memles]

I won't be voting Liberal. Billions of dollars isn't a pittance, and it's precisely that kind of thinking that allows for corruption inthe first place. A shame, because Paul Martin has the kind of gravitas that a PM needs, but that party is rotten to the core.

I guess my view is that the gun registry had money sunk into it before it turned out the be a waste...and as you say, that was no fault of Martin's.

Taxes run this country, Gorgie. Simple as that. I can't say I agree with his methods, but a level of taxation as Harper proposes isn't worth the detriment to Canada.

 

[Gorgie]

Taxes don't have to run this country. I'm all for scaling back social services and what not if I can keep more money on my paycheck.

 

[Azih]

jeez, election is tommorow.


You know, I dont' want to vote liberal, they fucked up this country pretty bad and paul martin couldnt' handle a few million with his old job so he sure has shit shouldnt' be in charge of the whole country for 2-3 years.

On the other hand, I am a liberal minded person, if someone wants to have a gay marriage or an abortion, let them. That only really leaves NDP and if I vote for them I may as well not vote at all.

Not completly Pachinko. If you vote for the NDP, then that might not turn into a seat in Parliment, but it will mean that the NDP gets more money in the next Federal Election. And hey the NDP is the only party really pushing for proportional representation.

 

[Azih]

Taxes don't have to run this country. I'm all for scaling back social services and what not if I can keep more money on my paycheck.

Then you're going to have to pay more for health insurance and if you ever have any children you're going to pay through your nose for private schools since the public schools have gone to shit because of lack of support and funding (And university tuition will SKYROCKET believe you me).

The money is going to come out of your paycheck anyway in taxes to goverment or in fees to private corporations. You'll just have an uglier meaner country by cutting taxes and slashing social services.

 

[Memles]

Taxes don't have to run this country. I'm all for scaling back social services and what not if I can keep more money on my paycheck.

What do you consider social services?

The provinces and cities want more money for education, health care, etc. They don't want lower taxes. The less taxes, the less money they get.

You support Harper, obviously, but he wants to spend on the military, spend on Health Care, and cut income tax, business tax and even gas tax. He feels he can offer a better deal for provinces, and yet at the same time cut taxes?

Harper is trying to play both sides, and I don't think such bullshit moderate politics works. Either focus on social services, or focus on tax cuts. Trying to mix them will only create a blurred sense of the leader, and in the end spell disaster.

 

[ErasureAcer]

thanks for the links on the parties...whoever gave it(forgot).

I'm cheering for a NDP victory. These guys seem pretty cool, so vote for em you Canucks.

 

[calder]

Heh, NDP won't win anything. I sure as shit won't be voting Liberal this year, it's only been fear of Conservative social-policies that've kept them so fat and happy this long. I think a Conservative majority, while totally against most of what I belive in socially, will help financially. Just long enough to get the Liberals to choke down some humble pie and get rid of the old guard who've clearly become drunk with power.

I'm one of those ppl who, while I have definite preferences, ultimately believes that power should be a pendulum that goes back and forth between the opposite socio-political theologies. I just hope/pray the Conservatives don't get a huge majority gov't and start fucking around with their kooky social agenda. Gutting a few ministries I can handle, tax-breaks for the wealthy are ok and I actually want them to greatly increase military spending, but if they start up with their abortion/death penalty/pro 'traditional' marriage I'll be pissed and praying for the corrupt Liberals to come back.

Hell, I can't vote PC. I did it once provincially a decade ago and still feel dirty. Guess I'll vote NDP like I did last time - I don't think they'd be especially good as a majority gov't but having a few NDP mp's always helps ensure there's a few well meaning, overly-sincere but ultimately powerless politicians around.

 

[BigJonsson]

VOTE LIBERAL!

Harper does not think like a traditional Canadian, our social mindedness makes us who we are in the world

 

[Socreges]

Do people actually think the Liberals will repeat anything close to their past mistakes? Martin is not Chretien. I'm not sure if the people under him are much the same, but reportedly it's seen quite a shake-up since. And I think they're definitely going to be more responsible given all the criticism and publicity they've gotten. In fact, I'd feel more comfortable with the Liberals heading a government [majority or minority] than any other party.

Just don't vote for the Conservatives or NDP out of punishment against the Liberals, unless you're convinced that there won't be an improvement. Too many people are doing that. I think it's ridiculous.

(Calder, your post inspired this, but it's pretty much directed at everyone)

 

[BigJonsson]

Exactly, sure you can punish the Liberals for various scandals but you should only vote CPC or NDP if your views fall in line with the party platform. Why elect a right wing government if you lean to the left? You won't be happy

 

[videogamer]

Exactly, sure you can punish the Liberals for various scandals but you should only vote CPC or NDP if your views fall in line with the party platform. Why elect a right wing government if you lean to the left? You won't be happy

I believe Nadar or some American Green Party people did say that things needed to get worse before they got better.

 

[explodet]

This isn't America, why should we listen to "Nadar"?

 

[bishoptl]

When the Liberals prove that they're worthy of my vote, they'll get it. Not tomorrow, though.

 

[videogamer]

This isn't America, why should we listen to "Nadar"?

Well, Nader was talking about America, and I didn't mean to say that he was talking about Canada either. I was merely trying to make some parallels between some of the decisions on this thread to shun the Liberals and some of Nader's/Green party voter reasoning. It was something off the top of my head, nothing to get pissed over.

 

[GG-Duo]

my concern is just how are the Conservatives socially?
I don't want privatization...

 

[BigJonsson]

my concern is just how are the Conservatives socially?
I don't want privatization...

Conservatives are all about privatization and cutting social services

Harper reminds me of Mike Harris *shudder*

 

[calder]

Of course I don't think they'll truly improve - they've had these sorts of ethics/patronage/corruption scandals for almost a full decade now and they've just *gotten worse*. They've had such hefty majorities for the 2+ terms they pretty much started running things like they'd always be in power, and to me it's pretty clear they'd continue on just as before given half a chance. Maybe not as bad as the sponsorship scandal, and maybe the truly egregious shit would stop, but there is no doubt in my mind that the mindset of entitlement would just grow again with another victory and the rot at the very center of the party would reassert itself. At first it looked like simple govt waste and mismanagement, but now it's looking more and more like deliberate, calculated misappropriation of huge stacks of money. And it's not like Martin took over from Chretien and started cleaning things up - he did *nothing* until the reports started coming out and he had no choice.

And voting against them as "punishment" is entirely, almost insanely, justifiable. As a party they proved entirely incapable of governing themselves, why shouldn't people turn away from them en masse now?! At the last election they acted contrite and spoke strongly about how, ethically, they'd changed and then 2 years later it's "oops, actually the really really bad stuff went right on until the Auditor General couldn't help but notice".

 

[BigJonsson]

So people should vote for a party that has views that may be very different then their own?

 

[calder]

Uh, why not? There's a half dozen parties out there, if ppl feel that the Liberals aren't worth voting because of the money they wasted and laws they broke in order to give hundreds of millions of dollars to loyal Liberal cronies in Quebec why the fuck should they? Just because they agree with the Liberal platform on issue x? Sure the Liberals appeal to a lot of people because of their bland, middle-of-the-road centrist ideals, but surely to god you can find another party that jives with what you feel is most important if you don't trust the Liberals anymore.

But really, I'll vote NDP tomorrow just like I did last time. But last time I considered the Liberals a party I wouldn't mind winning, while this time I wouldn't even consider voting for them unless the alternative was a huge Torie majority.

 

[Fifty]

Conservatives are all about privatization and cutting social services

Harper reminds me of Mike Harris *shudder*

I agree, basically. I'm voting NDP tomorrow.

 

[Socreges]

And voting against them as "punishment" is entirely, almost insanely, justifiable. As a party they proved entirely incapable of governing themselves, why shouldn't people turn away from them en masse now?! At the last election they acted contrite and spoke strongly about how, ethically, they'd changed and then 2 years later it's "oops, actually the really really bad stuff went right on until the Auditor General couldn't help but notice".

--->

Just don't vote for the Conservatives or NDP out of punishment against the Liberals, unless you're convinced that there won't be an improvement.

Which you are not. Therefore, I understand. But some people admit they think that, with the criticisms and close race, the Liberals will be an improved, responsible government this time; and yet they would still rather vote for the Conservatives or NDP just to spite the Liberals for their past.

I'm not so bitter. I have practically no experience in Canadian politics. I only hear testimony and I try to reason that mistakes won't so necessarily be repeated. Probably a mixture of naivety and optimism, but it's where I'm at right now.

 

[calder]

Well, if there's one silver lining this time it's that the Reform Party imploded and was forced to merge with the slightly less looney PCs to form a party more coldly impersonal and distant from the average man but at least less batshit crazy about social policies. If it was a choice between the Reformers and the Liberals I'd not only hold my nose and vote Liberal I'd probably staple a $20 to my ballot for Martin to spend however the hell he wanted.

God, when I lived in a small town I voted Liberal but ended up with a Reform party MP. I literally had to choke back the bile every time I read the local papers to hear that hick prattle on about repealing gun control or how they were going to 'fix' immigration.

 

[6.8]

I don't know what to do. T_T

I fall to the right side of the spectrum generally speaking - so I wouldn't mind a right wing government, however, the Conservative party is quite clearly just the 3rd iteration of the Reform Party, a regional party, that wouldn't benefit my own interests for a right wing government. I won't vote for the right until there's an actually Canadian right party, not just some very localized party. I don't want to vote for the Liberals either - I've never voted for them, and they're equally localized.

NDP? No - as I said I stand to the right a little bit.

BQ - I'd probably vote for them if I were in Quebec, and despite the fact that I'm not a separatist. But I'm not in Quebec.

That leaves me with the hippies.

 

[dem]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the west voting Liberal...

 

[Suranga3]

Well, I live in Edmonton, 2 of my family members are voting liberal (the other is voting conservative). I'm voting NDP.

 

[6.8]

I had a big discussion over lunch at work today about it, and I pretty much equally confused people to the state I am in. Then I suggested they vote for the hippies as well.

 

[maharg]

Well, in all of alberta there are currently 2 liberal ridings.

I live in one of them.

 

[Gorgie]

What do you consider social services?

The provinces and cities want more money for education, health care, etc. They don't want lower taxes. The less taxes, the less money they get.

You support Harper, obviously, but he wants to spend on the military, spend on Health Care, and cut income tax, business tax and even gas tax. He feels he can offer a better deal for provinces, and yet at the same time cut taxes?

Harper is trying to play both sides, and I don't think such bullshit moderate politics works. Either focus on social services, or focus on tax cuts. Trying to mix them will only create a blurred sense of the leader, and in the end spell disaster.

Have you ever considered that needs, not just wants, are also infinite. How much money can one spend on education, health care, etc. before we, the voters, are satisfied. The truth is, there isn't enough money, and there will never ever be enough. I think K-12 should be supported by the government, but beyond that, its up to the individual to get scholoarships and apply for student loans. Especially since there are so many programs higher up, each costing different amounts of money.

I think some services of healthcare should be privatized, services that do not save lives, but help make lives better. Dentists, (not eye doctors, I wish they were public), hip replacements, mending bones, stuff like that. Because there is no way that the governments can afford to keep sustaining healthcare for the future, the costs are sprialing out of control, and things need to be done. Maybe practicing triage, where if your over 70, and need a new heart, you'll be less priority than the 10 year old with a heart defect.

As for Harper, I really think that he believes that the liberals have abused so much money, that it will be possible to cut taxes, and offer increased services, but we'll see if this holds true. I do think we need increased militarty spending, at least get our equipment up to date, but I don't want to go overkill like American military spending.

But it looks like, no matter which party wins, there will be a minority government and no big policy changes will happen.

 

[Malakhov]

I'm going to vote and vote PQ but this place is so Liberal it isn't even funny, our Liberal candidate is Martin so

Damn you Martin for being an homeboy!

 

[Alucard]

Cast my vote for the NDP this morning. I think they have a good shot at winning my riding since I've seen a lot of their signs on people's lawns in the area.

 

[Christian Taylor]

You support Harper, obviously, but he wants to spend on the military, spend on Health Care, and cut income tax, business tax and even gas tax. He feels he can offer a better deal for provinces, and yet at the same time cut taxes?

It’s called supply-side economics. It’s all the rage among Austrian economists…

Harper does not think like a traditional Canadian, our social mindedness makes us who we are in the world

So propping up one of the world’s worst healthcare systems is what makes you Canadian? I guess the old joke is right. Canada is a government with a country, not a country with a government. Come on, I think you can find something better to be patriotic about than failed socialism.

I don't want privatization...

Why not? Even the Swedes are privatizing. Is it just because of anti-Americanism that you don’t want to do it?

the Conservative party is quite clearly just the 3rd iteration of the Reform Party, a regional party, that wouldn't benefit my own interests for a right wing government. I won't vote for the right until there's an actually Canadian right party

Uh, the CPC is nationwide. That’s what they got when they merged with the PC. Anyway, they’re more nationwide than the Liberals, that’s for sure. The Liberals are dead in Quebec, dead in the West, and dying in Ontario. The CPC is as national as you can get.

Well, in all of alberta there are currently 2 liberal ridings.

Not for long.

 

[neptunes]

I want the Liberals to win!

 

[Malakhov]

Privatisation is just awful, especially in the Health system.

 

[6.8]

Why not? Even the Swedes are privatizing. Is it just because of anti-Americanism that you don’t want to do it?

I'm assuming that's why most people don't even want to talk about this in Canada. It puzzles me, frankly. I'm rather undecided on the issue, but I would love to see it debated.

 

[Memles]

It’s called supply-side economics. It’s all the rage among Austrian economists…

So propping up one of the world’s worst healthcare systems is what makes you Canadian? I guess the old joke is right. Canada is a government with a country, not a country with a government. Come on, I think you can find something better to be patriotic about than failed socialism.

Uh, the CPC is nationwide. That’s what they got when they merged with the PC. Anyway, they’re more nationwide than the Liberals, that’s for sure. The Liberals are dead in Quebec, dead in the West, and dying in Ontario. The CPC is as national as you can get.

Not for long.

Voodoo Economics...its Reagan's calling card, and it's only in existence to convince people that, in fact, that economy is better than it is. It doesn't work. Those revenue projections are higher than even the NDPs! The NDP! The money spending scoundrels of this country!

World's Worst Health Care system? Oh...oh my. That's just hillarious. Medicare and free health care is essentially what seperates us from the third world countries, and the American system. It is part of Canada. If you privatize some services, the rich get better health care than the poor, and you have a two tiered health care system.

The CPC is nationwide? In theory, yes. For that matter, so is the NDP, and the Liberals. And even the Green Party! The NDP is basically a party with support in Urban Centres, East Coast and West Coast. Liberals have a chance pretty well everywhere; they may be in a precarious position in many places, but there are few areas where they are going to finish last, or anything of that sort. The Conservatives are dead in Quebec (No chance in hell) most Urban centres are leaning to the left...it goes both ways. The point is that it was a regional party, and their beliefs have not changed enough to convince many their hearts don't lie in the same prairies.

 

[6.8]

1) As far as I'm concerned, the only party that isn't strongly regionalized is the NDP. But then again, they're also the kind of party that says anything to get votes.

2) As far as I'm concerned, America is not the only industrialized country with a somewhat privatized Health Care system.

3) As far as I'm concerned, Canada has a good Health Care system, but it's deteriorating quickly.

 

[Malakhov]

s far as I'm concerned, Canada has a good Health Care system, but it's deteriorating quickly.

And privatization witll only accelerate its deterioration, it's not a solution.

 

[6.8]

Then again, that's debatable, depending on how it's implemented. I'd rather see a debate and studies rather than saying "that's not a solution" as though that were fact and set in cement.

 

[Alcibiades]

I remember hearing about the "Progressive Conservative" party once on TV, sounds like my cup of tea, are they still around?

 

[6.8]

They were right in my political alley as well, but they are gone. The few left merged with the ReformAlliance party, joined the Liberals, or quit politics altogether because the current CPC is much more rightist than the progressive conservatives were.

 

[Alcibiades]

I live in South Texas, but I decided to try this just for fun, putting in a "no preference" for one question only...

Thanks for using the Politics Watch Vote Selector Quiz. The candidates who most closely match your political views are listed first. You must answer at least one question to obtain scores or rankings.

This vote selector quiz is intended only as an exploration of the campaign issues. At PoliticsWatch, we hope you will make your informed vote after fully exploring each leader and party's vision, platform, policies and integrity, as well as any other values you judge to be important qualities of a Canadian Prime Minister and governing party.

# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 87)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 73)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 47)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 87)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 73)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 47)

 

[Fifty]

Steven Harper is against Padawan braids.

 

[6.8]

That's what I would expect from the average Texan...

 

[Alcibiades]

That's what I would expect from the average Texan...

not with the 87% for the liberal attach though...

 

[Mike Works]

I'm pretty sure I'm voting liberal today. While they fucked up big time with the gun registration and numerous other financial aspects, I'm more comfortable taking the risk of having a new liberal leader (Martin instead of Chretien) in power in hopes that he'll do a better job than Jean, as opposed to a Conservative, whom holds a bevy of ideals I strongly disagree with.

 

[BigJonsson]

I'm getting out the vote for the Liberal candidate in my area today

Damn it's tedious work

 

[FightyF]

Mike: Just keep in mind that most of the Liberal's screw ups had lot more to do with Martin, than Chretien.

On the other hand, I have to admit that if it weren't for these screw-ups, the Liberals would have had a pretty clean record.

But they did screw up, and they'll pay for it by losing the majority/election.

I'll be at the Harper celebration tonight. Yes, you heard me, celebration. I've been dared to start a "U-S-A! U-S-A!" chant. I'm gonna chicken out, because I know it will catch on within the Calgary crowd, and it won't look good on TV. People in the East will be like "Who the **** did we just vote for?!".