If the Mike Duffy trial were as big of a scandal as the Sponsorship Scandal, it would have single-handedly ruined the incumbent government.
Comparing the two just makes the Sponsorship Scandal look less important.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
- Start date
- Status
If the Mike Duffy trial were as big of a scandal as the Sponsorship Scandal, it would have single-handedly ruined the incumbent government.
Comparing the two just makes the Sponsorship Scandal look less important.
It wouldn't have been an unreasonable statement to make at the beginning of the campaign when the NDP were sky high in the polls and just a few dozen seats away from a minority.
Campaigns matter!
The NDP snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with a boring, front runner campaign that did nothing to excite the 2/3s of voters that said they wanted change.
Sakura
Member
If they were changing the 8 month threshold they would say so.
Which do you think is more likely, they automatically defer all repayments of the student loans until you prove you are making more than 25k a year, or the other way around?
It will most likely be the same scheme that we currently have, the difference being that as long as you aren't making over 25k, you won't have to pay anything. How that compares to the current threshold I'm not sure, because I don't believe that threshold is communicated any where.
IISANDERII
Member
Most importantly, I want Harper gone. I prefer NDP but should I Liberal?
Simon Belmont
Banned
Would a shovel help you better stuff words into my mouth?
Where do you live?
Sakura
Member
If you don't care about whether it is NDP or Liberal that get in, then you should look and see which party is more likely to win in your riding.
matthewwhatever
Member
It's really surprising that the NDP doesn't seem like they'll be able to build on Notley's success. Different situations, different organizations, etc., but still -- it seemed like they had some good building blocks there.
Can he even speak French, though?
Yep. If Harper hadn't decided to sell off Canada's GM shares, the auto industry concessions might have impacted us in some way, but as it stands, it was going to be pretty much dead within a few years anyway.
They were betting on a horrifically bad deal for Canada, and that doesn't seem to have happened. It feels like they bought into the caricature they'd built up of Harper as some evil, heartless Conservative ready to sell Canada out at the first opportunity, rather than realizing that he wasn't going to sign off on a deal that was overtly bad for the country right in the middle of an election campaign. (I mean, he is an evil, heartless Conservative, but he's not stupid.)
It also feels like they've really hurt their credibility -- it's hard to present yourselves as a sober-minded, moderate government-in-waiting when you're loudly proclaiming that you're against a deal before you even know what's in it.
EDIT: New Ipsos!
In Quebec, they have the NDP down 20 points from the beginning of the campaign, so they only have a 6-point lead over the other three parties, who are all at 23. Other breakdowns:
905: LPC 45, CPC 42, NDP 11
416: LPC 39, NDP 31, CPC 28
BC: NDP 34, CPC 31, LPC 28
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It took 90 minutes, but I voted today. A pointless vote in Toronto-Danforth, but I figured I might as well even though voting is kind of meaningless when you already know who will win. lol
Although if Mulcair fucks up even more, maybe the seat will go Liberal.
Although if Mulcair fucks up even more, maybe the seat will go Liberal.
Oh wow, I forgot all about Williams. I guess he's the closest thing they've got to a star Candidate now.
strategicvoting.ca
It helps, but it's always good to do a bit more research for your riding.
Just to make double sure.
My riding, I'm voting Liberal as they have the better chance of winning.
So Nanos is a bit of an outlier. Or they are ahead of everyone. From Andrew Coyne Twitter.
With Nanos:
Without Nanos:
Yes, but he also pointed out that the non-Nanos polls are at least a week old and the graph doesn't weigh for the sample size of each poll.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You should probably still check if the MP you vote for believes in the things you do at least. Last thing you want to do is vote for an MP who, I dunno, thinks abortion should be criminalized or something but you only voted for him because he might help oust Harper.
The new Ipsos is from today.
Sakura
Member
That without Nanos graph isn't though.
So it is. I would still caution reading too much into this though. Heck, maybe Ipsos is the outlier. 😜
Edit: Sakura may have backed up my previous assertion though.
Oppo
Member
hah, I doubt that. T-D isn't remotely competitive.
Not sure what I think about the TPP. I have to wonder why they didn't give up on supply management. Electoral issue, maybe?
I'm more afraid about private information and copyright. The early draft of the partnership had copyright extension to over 70 years and forbid partner from keeping sensitive data inside their borders.
It also talked about increasing the length on patents for drugs which would lead to much more expensive drugs in the long run and I feel it is a much more important issue than the milk quotas seeing as we tend to gob up pills so much.
I'm more afraid about private information and copyright. The early draft of the partnership had copyright extension to over 70 years and forbid partner from keeping sensitive data inside their borders.
It also talked about increasing the length on patents for drugs which would lead to much more expensive drugs in the long run and I feel it is a much more important issue than the milk quotas seeing as we tend to gob up pills so much.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It seemed softer after Layton's passing, but yeah, it's safe to assume it'll stay orange for a while. That said, it was a Liberal riding during all my pre-voting age years, so... things can happen. lol
dragonfart28
Banned
Both parties have never looked more equally appropriate. I have a preference for NDP as well but will need to vote strategically.
Find out what your riding is and go with the best chance to defeat Harper.
Which sucks.
Which politician is it that sends the spam postcards with english and greek text? Tabuns or Scott?
gutter_trash
Banned
I am done with strategic voting, I don't give a shit if the Bloc beats the NDP in my riding; I will vote Liberal on forth forever
How close is your riding?
Yup
Bringing up the Sponsorship scandal now a decade later is just really fucking stupid. It was sad when Harper brought it up in the debates and it's sad that Kifimbo is bringing it up right now.
I would rather have a sponsorship scandal filled Chretien government than whatever the fuck the Conservatives were doing for the last 10 years.
gutter_trash
Banned
3 points for the NDP over the Bloc
I voted NDP because of Jack Layton twice, but I can`t see myself voting for a party who's leader (Mulcair) continuously attacks Pierre Trudeau in 3 debates in a row on his handling of the October Crisis
I'm voting for Liberal forever
You may as well stay home.
How close are the Liberals in your riding?
I don't think Canada will be much of a loser in the TPP, on the contrary it will probably open up a lot of emerging markets to Canadian resources and products. I'm concerned about the TPP because free trade agreements tend to be a back door to market deregulation as they force all markets to come to a lowest common denominator. Businesses (or rather their owners) are always in favour of this, because it improves their bottom line, but it also has the potential to set back a lot of important gains of the labour movement over the last century, and we're already scrambling down that slope a fair bit imo.
From that perspective, Mulcair should absolutely be against it -- protection of worker's rights is at the core of the NDP's DNA -- whether he's read it or not. It's not like we haven't been through this song and dance before, TPP will look like every other free trade agreement reached with massive corporate input and no legislative input. I think he's probably against the right thing, but maybe for the wrong reason.
Supply management going down in flames is the least of the problems with the free trade movement, as supply management in markets that can be truly competitive is almost certainly bad. But antitrust laws that protect us from real emergent monopolistic behaviour are also at risk under extra-legislative law like free trade tends to be, so...
Also fuck copyright extension and further erosion of fair use, which is almost certainly in there too.
From that perspective, Mulcair should absolutely be against it -- protection of worker's rights is at the core of the NDP's DNA -- whether he's read it or not. It's not like we haven't been through this song and dance before, TPP will look like every other free trade agreement reached with massive corporate input and no legislative input. I think he's probably against the right thing, but maybe for the wrong reason.
Supply management going down in flames is the least of the problems with the free trade movement, as supply management in markets that can be truly competitive is almost certainly bad. But antitrust laws that protect us from real emergent monopolistic behaviour are also at risk under extra-legislative law like free trade tends to be, so...
Also fuck copyright extension and further erosion of fair use, which is almost certainly in there too.
gutter_trash
Banned
10 points behind the Bloc, 12 points behind the NDP.
eh, look, the Bloc has closed by 2 points behind the NDP....
if Mulcair did not bash Pierre Trudeau constantly, maybe I would have voted strategic for the NDP
when Gilles Duceppe is more courteous and respectful towards Justin Trudeau compared to the way Mulcair has been condescending to him, that speaks allot.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Please. You already decided to vote Liberal before that happened. It's all so very petty anyway.
You do know by strategic voting you're helping Trudeau get in.
1 less seat for the CPC helps the Liberals stay above them.
gutter_trash
Banned
actually no, I was open to strategic voting to block the Bloc
Jack palyed nice, I let him barrow my vote twice
1 less seat for the NDP gives a chance for the Liberals to have more seats than the NDP. Kick the NDP down to 3rd place
The NDP are going to get 3rd anyways according to polls and projections.
Taking seats away from the CPC is more important for the Liberal party.
Also, if a coalition is formed, that extra seat helps too.
gutter_trash
Banned
The CPC? they are never going to win a seat in my city, the are in 5th Place in my riding!!! 5th place LOL
Montreal is Liberal city
Haha, I totally thought it was the CPC.
Still, the point stands if a coalition is formed, that extra seat helps.
gutter_trash
Banned
there is no coalition to be made with the party that supports the Sherbrooke Declaration and their 50%+1
UberTag
Member
No coalition government? Well, better look forward to another 5 years of Harper and friends then. Because a coalition government is the only way we're rid of him.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Other Governments got in before Harper without coalitions, other Governments will get in after Harper without coalitions.
I have no idea why so many people on this board are expecting a coalition seeing as there is exactly zero precedent for it in Canadian politics in the last 100 or so years.
UberTag
Member
I'm not expecting it at all. I'm expecting a Conservative minority. I do like the idea of propping up the idea of a coalition to motivate people to vote responsibly in three weeks. But do I entertain any delusions of there being one? Hell no.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Fair enough, I just see the word get tossed around it this thread a lot.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Good Lord, the melodrama in here. What the hell is 'voting responsibly'?
One of the wonderful confusions to arise out of the 2008/9 'coalition crisis' is that people now know the word and think it's the only means by which a minority government can form without having a plurality of seats. I think it's probably better for your sanity if you just take the casual use of 'coalition' to mean 'agreement to support a government,' which is not at all the same thing. I don't think the NDP and Liberals will form an actual coalition (mostly because of the smear job Harper did on it), but I do think if they together command a plurality of votes then one will support the other rather than allow Harper to continue governing.
They may lose gutter, but they'll lose a lot more than him if they allow Harper another kick at the can when they could have prevented it.
UberTag
Member
I'll take voting at all as a step in the right direction. Most people don't even bother doing that.
Simon Belmont
Banned
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Those go straight into the trash, so I don't even know. lol
The way it is looking now, it looks like the Liberals would be the other party to get a shot assuming both parties agree to kill the government in the first vote. Would the NDP choose to prop the Liberals up without any formal agreement? I wonder.
As always, I think the prospect of being the one responsible for triggering a snap election is what's going to keep everyone in line and allow the Conservatives to stay in power for another few years.
They better. They were the ones who said they were open to a coalition. They have more to gain by supporting a Liberal government than not. If they just stand there and let Harper take the throne while the Liberals say they are open to a coalition, they can burn in hell. I'll never vote for them again.
Only 'most' if you count children
/pedant
If you think most of our population is children... I've got really bad news for you.
Simon Belmont
Banned
No, but voter turnout has been in ~60% range in the last few elections. In order to say 'most' people didn't vote you would have to include children, ergo pedant.
So if you thought I thought that, well then I've got some even worse news for you.
CitizenVectron
Member
Sure there has been. The NDP (3rd place) helped the LPC (2nd place) take power in Ontario in the 80s. The LPC (3rd place) helped the NDP (1st place) keep power in Saskatchewan in the early 2000s. The NDP (3rd place) helped the LPC (1st place) govern in the 60s and 70s federally. Only one of those was an official coalition (Saskatchewan), but accords are very common in our history.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked