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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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F

Firestorm

Member
I used Facebook Timeline to check out how I was feelin' in 2011. Not good :( Hoping to make happy posts this year.
mo60 said:
Doesn't CTV, CPAC and other channels also have special election night coverage.
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Yeah I'm sure Global, CTV, etc. do stuff but everyone I know as well as I all seem to be on CBC for elections.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Pedrito said:
Good news everyone! Ezra L. and the gang have crowdfunded a new studio and will cover election night live. Bring a swimsuit cause we might drown in tears.

They still need a little bit more money though:



Inspiring! Take that CBC!
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justin-trudeau.jpg.size.xxlarge.letterbox.jpg
 
P

Pedrito

Member
Stet said:
I watched SunTV coverage of both of the last Ontario provincial elections because nothing is more fun than watching peoples' whole world crashing down around them.

This would've been a glorious one to watch with them. RIP Sun News Network.
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You can! TheRebel.ca and their brand new studio is Sun News Network 2.0. It's the exact same crazy mofos, with even less production value!
They even hired that batshit insane albertan soccer mom I keep seeing on twitter.
Monday night is gonna awesome!
I still expect something to go wrong...
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Minus_Me said:
Is she showing up at Costco?
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he said at her riding office, I have no idea what kind of rally you want to do in an office or is it a photo op or whatever

eh, if it's an excuse to see the future Prime Minister in person, then yeah I will go

and I get to see Melanie Joly!!! :)
 
M

Minus_Me

Member
gutter_trash said:
he said at her riding office, I have no idea what kind of rally you want to do in an office or is it a photo op or whatever

eh, if it's an excuse to see the future Prime Minister in person, then yeah I will go

and I get to see Melanie Joly!!! :)
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Her smile is infectious, met her during the municipal elections.
 
M

massivekettle

Member
I just wish the election had happened 3 weeks ago instead. Still hoping that the trend will reverse and give us a Tory win, similar to what actually happened earlier this year in the UK where the Tory won a majority that was for the most part unexpected.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
mo60 said:
Is it possible at this point that the CPC decline enough that the NDP stay as official opposition after election night. The NDP and CPC seem to be getting closer to each in some of the polls lately which is making me ponder this.
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I doubt it. The Conservatives would have to decline in the Interior, Saskatchewan and...hmmm...not sure where else would work in a way that could propel the NDP to seats. There are some ridings where it's the two of them fighting for votes, but I don't think there are enough to keep the NDP in second.

maharg said:
Ignatieff is my favourite Liberal leader of the last 20 years. :p For all the reasons Harper tore him down, no less.
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What did you like about him? I liked him insofar as I thought he'd be more effective in handling Conservative attacks than Dion, but that didn't work out so well. I do wish he'd won his seat, though, because I wouldn't have minded either giving him another election, or at least keeping him in the House while they held a leadership contest.

(And Nicole Turmel was the interim leader. I'd say I'm not sure why I remember...but let's be honest, I'm also someone who once memorized every leader of the Conservative Party from Confederation through to them getting swallowed up.)

mo60 said:
The NDP is denying that Nycole Turmel is terminally ill now.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-turmel-rumour-1.3269966
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Not that I think she's dying, but I feel like this is the sort of thing that would be much more effective if it were delivered by the candidate in question. Otherwise, it just comes off as "Her? Uh...yeah, she's totally fine. What? Why would you want to see her? What are you suggesting?!"

oneils said:
Anyone else here in Ottawa centre? I'm voting npd. Have done so for the last three elections. This is boradbents old stomping grounds so I don't really see it going any other way.
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I think it's going to be close. McKenna has been running a really strong campaign and is really well-organized, and Dewar is spooked enough that he's running ads begging people not to split the vote. It should be one of the safer NDP seats, but their campaign has been so abysmal that it's not any more.

Sean C said:
I was skimming the LPC caucus and the candidate list for who's left with ministerial experience; between it being nine years since the last Liberal government, Martin's purge of Chretien loyalists in 2004, and the 2011 wipeout, there aren't many left:

1. Ralph Goodale (1993-2006)
2. Stephane Dion (1996-2003, 2004-2006)
3. Lawrence MacAulay (1994-2002)
4. Wayne Easter (2002-2003)
5. John McCallum (2002-2006)
6. Geoff Regan (2003-2006)
7. Judy Sgro (2003-2005)
8. Scott Brison (2004-2006)

Also, Bob Nault (who was an MP from 1988 until retirement in 2004, and Minister of Indian Affairs from 1999 to 2003) is running again in Kenora, so if he wins (which is a question mark) he'd also be available.

I would expect any Trudeau Cabinet would include Goodale (pretty much mandatory, since he's almost certainly the only MP they're going to get from Saskatchewan), Dion and Brison. Easter could be PEI's minister, though I personally think that would be Sean Casey. MacAulay and Sgro got dumped from cabinet in the lifespan of their governments (albeit for seriously overblown reasons), and I wouldn't expect to see them back. I doubt Trudeau is going to have two Nova Scotians in Cabinet, so Regan is probably not getting in. I don't know about McCallum.

Edit: I forgot Carolyn Bennett -- potential Health Minister, there.
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McCallum has been front and centre throughout the campaign, so I imagine he'd be part of any Trudeau cabinet, even if he just returns to Revenue.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
matthewwhatever said:
(And Nicole Turmel was the interim leader. I'd say I'm not sure why I remember...but let's be honest, I'm also someone who once memorized every leader of the Conservative Party from Confederation through to them getting swallowed up.)
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Wrong period. Turmel was interim leader (of the party and in the house) after Layton died. I was talking about before he took a seat in parliament in 2004, he was leader of the party for a year and a half before that (which actually rendered his epic burn against Ignatieff that propelled him to opposition leader kind of hypocritical).

Sean C is correct, it was Bill Blaikie.

As for why I liked Ignatieff, a prime minister who had actually been abroad and lived in the world had a strong romantic appeal to me. Even if he did look like a grumpy old grampa. And supported the Iraq war.
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
Boogie said:
Also true.

Maybe it's just that as a UofT grad, I felt it a double-snub that he felt UofT wasn't good enough for his permanent academic gig, haha.
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As much as I hate those attack ads, a part of me kind of agreed with them. Maybe I'm just bitter (studying at UofT as well) but its kind of sad how the former leader of of the LPC clearly prefers to United States of 'Murica, which, ironically enough, is the anti-thesis of his own party.

Anti-thesis may be putting in strongly, but it seems like even the Conservatives, the party most towards the right here, is still to the left of the Democrats which are considered "leftist" in the states.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Apathy said:
Turns out they made english versions of the drugs/injections/brothels flyers too

https://twitter.com/DonMartinCTV/status/654315624122990592
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http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2677120371/

Stephen Harper faces questions about associating with Rob and Doug Ford

LurkerPrime said:
Lying is a Conservative value, huh. Good to know.

It's bizarre that they aren't even trying to spin it--just a straight up "it's the truth" (even going up to the PM). What are they thinking?
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rob_ford_and_anthony_smith.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Azzanadra said:
Anti-thesis may be putting in strongly, but it seems like even the Conservatives, the party most towards the right here, is still to the left of the Democrats which are considered "leftist" in the states.
Click to expand...

This may have been true once, but is definitely not true any more. I can't think of a single issue on which the CPC are to the left of the Democrats.
 
T

TheRealTalker

Banned
LurkerPrime said:
Lying is a Conservative value, huh. Good to know.

It's bizarre that they aren't even trying to spin it--just a straight up "it's the truth" (even going up to the PM). What are they thinking?
Click to expand...
it is the gutter strategy

you go to the pit holes of hell and take off your mask in order to gather up a bunch of people as low as they are to reach that extra boost in numbers

they are likely thinking that abandoning what other common people they have as supporters is too few compared to going full out and grasping all the main top left haters or people who ignore their faults and blindly obey
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
Pedrito said:
You can! TheRebel.ca and their brand new studio is Sun News Network 2.0. It's the exact same crazy mofos, with even less production value!
They even hired that batshit insane albertan soccer mom I keep seeing on twitter.
Monday night is gonna awesome!
I still expect something to go wrong...
Click to expand...
Fox News is coming back to Canada? How??
maharg said:
As for why I liked Ignatieff, a prime minister who had actually been abroad and lived in the world had a strong romantic appeal to me. Even if he did look like a grumpy old grampa. And supported the Iraq war.
Click to expand...
Yeah.... he should stay in America.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
No you see this isn’t the same Liberal Party of the 90s that was run by the old boys club on Bay Street. Now that Trudeau has taken over, the party has changed and… oh wait.

Liberal campaign co-chair quits election effort over TransCanada email

OTTAWA — Justin Trudeau's national campaign co-chair is stepping down after he sent a detailed email to people behind the Energy East pipeline with advice on how and when to lobby a new government — including a Liberal minority.

Earlier in the day the Liberals stood by Dan Gagnier, saying he did not break any ethical standards. But in a statement later Wednesday, Gagnier said he didn't want to be a distraction to the campaign.

"I deeply regret that the campaign has been affected by these negative, personal attacks," the statement reads.

"I have always conducted my business openly and in full accordance with the rules. In the best interests of the party, I have taken this decision. I continue to support Justin Trudeau and hope for a Liberal government on Oct. 19."

In a statement of its own, the Liberal party said it respects Gagnier's decision, but blames the controversy on the Conservatives and their "negative and mean-spirited politics."

In the email, a copy of which was obtained by The Canadian Press, Gagnier advises five TransCanada Corp. officials to target the right people in a new government as quickly as possible so they can help shape either Liberal or NDP decisions on a national energy strategy.

Such a lobbying effort would be needed to ensure the planned "in-service" dates of projects like Energy East aren't put at risk, the email said.

Getting this "early entry point" in any revisions to the rules governing the National Energy Board "is sensitive," but also an opportunity, it continues.

"If the premiers and the new PM want investment and jobs, they will have to provide a lead and an efficient time-frame for getting this done," Gagnier writes.

Near the end of the message, he notes that energy companies needed to act "uniformly" to work with a new government if the Conservatives lose the election on Oct. 19.

"An energy strategy for Canada is on the radar and we need a spear carrier for those in the industry who are part of the solution going forward rather than refusing to grasp the implications of a changing global reality," the email reads.

"The last point is critical as federal leadership and a discussion with premiers will take place early. This is where we can play and help them get things right."

Prior to his resignation, a Liberal spokeswoman said Gagnier's analysis in the email has "nothing to do with his volunteer role on the campaign," noting that he didn't advise Trudeau on energy issues.

"The analysis draws on his years of experience in public service, and is based on publicly available information describing possible scenarios that any new government may face," Zita Astravas said in an email.

"In all areas, we hold our campaign to the highest ethical standards. I would point out that both the Conservative and NDP campaigns include many consultants."

Gagnier has spent years in politics, including time working for the Privy Council Office, the central federal bureaucracy that supports the prime minister and cabinet.

He has also worked in the federal Department of Foreign Affairs and was twice chief of staff to former Quebec premier Jean Charest.

With only five days before election day, polls have put the Liberals and Conservatives in a tight race, with the Grits in sight of forming a minority government after Oct. 19.

Under the Constitution, Prime Minister Stephen Harper still has first dibs on forming a government should there be a hung Parliament where no one party has a majority. How that would happen, or how the Liberals or NDP would transition to a new government, is the focus of much of Gagnier's Oct. 12 email.

Gagnier also writes that a Liberal or NDP government would likely reduce the size of cabinet to about 25 ministers, which would make the finance minister a critical lobbying target.

Conservative campaign spokesman Stephen Lecce tried to link the email with past Liberal miscues, which occurred before Trudeau became an MP and, later, leader.

Lecce dismissed Trudeau and the Liberals as "a party run by elite insiders who sell their influence to the highest bidder to the detriment of taxpayers."

The argument that anyone could have written a similar analysis doesn't hold water, said the NDP's ethics critic, Charlie Angus.

The email suggests Gagnier was "signalling to his friends in 'Big Oil'" how to get in the good graces of the next government, should it not be Conservative, Angus said.

"It's a pretty lame excuse when you say anybody could have written this.... No, this was the co-chair of Trudeau's campaign," Angus said.

"Anybody could have written that, but nobody would have paid attention to it if a volunteer wrote it."
Click to expand...
 
K

killer rin

Member
ksharp said:
I just wish the election had happened 3 weeks ago instead. Still hoping that the trend will reverse and give us a Tory win, similar to what actually happened earlier this year in the UK where the Tory won a majority that was for the most part unexpected.
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Hey, Harper wanted a long campaign against everyone else's will. If it takes him down he has nobody to blame but himself.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Just in time for the Fords' rally for Harper, Macleans has an excerpt from a new book about Rob Ford, written by his former chief of staff: Rob Ford: Uncontrollable

It’s now 3:23. Rob unleashes a blast of words at hyper-speed. I can only make out a few words here and there.

“ . . . doobies  . . . ”

“I smoked that s–t . . .”

“I sold that s–t . . .”

“ . . . heroin . . .”

3:30. He’s still talking.

“ . . . my dad shot this guy . . .”

“. . . after he shot my cousin . . .”

“. . . Cousin Willy died . . . cousin Dougie . . .”

“I’m doing it in the washroom. I’m snorting s–t. I’m smashing s–t . . .”

“I come out all dripping wet . . .”

3:35.

“Since Mikey the transvestite died . . .”

“. . . fighter . . .”

“. . . left-handed . . .”
Click to expand...
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
Tiktaalik said:
No you see this isn’t the same Liberal Party of the 90s that was run by the old boys club on Bay Street. Now that Trudeau has taken over, the party has changed and… oh wait.
Click to expand...

So this is what we can look forward to with a Liberal majority. Save us CPC!
 
A

Apathy

Member
gutter_trash said:
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2677120371/

Stephen Harper faces questions about associating with Rob and Doug Ford



rob_ford_and_anthony_smith.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg
Click to expand...

Tiktaalik said:
No you see this isn’t the same Liberal Party of the 90s that was run by the old boys club on Bay Street. Now that Trudeau has taken over, the party has changed and… oh wait.
Click to expand...

matthewwhatever said:
Just in time for the Fords' rally for Harper, Macleans has an excerpt from a new book about Rob Ford, written by his former chief of staff: Rob Ford: Uncontrollable
Click to expand...

I'm glad Harper decided to bring the Fords close to him yesterday. It means he must support them just like Trudeau must be aligned with Wynne Right? So he supports abusive, loudmouth addicted crack smoking hoodlums.
 
J

Joeku

Member
So I have family that works in commercial programming at CTV, and it seems that instructions came through today that Conservatives are thinning out their TV ads over most of the country and doubling down in Ontario.

Also Monday is gonna be great if the liberal lead holds. Get to watch Harper crumble then drink a bunch and play the last episode of Life is Strange with my friend.
 
V

valkillmore

Member
Apathy said:
I'm glad Harper decided to bring the Fords close to him yesterday. It means he must support them just like Trudeau must be aligned with Wynne Right? So he supports abusive, loudmouth addicted crack smoking hoodlums.
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Wynne also has more than enough to e . . . nah
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
I feel this whole "left"/"right" thing is too shallow to be really meaningful. The Conservatives very much follow a conservative ideaology. Of course what conservatism means in practice is highly dependant on context, and of course the political context in Canada is pretty different from that of the United States. So yes, maybe a CPC government maintains more social spending than an American Democratic government would, but I don't think that puts them somewhere to the "left" of the American Democrats, when their core ideology is very much akin to American Conservatives.

In a similar vein I think arguing which of the Liberals or the NDP are further to the "left" is also pretty silly. The parties have different core ideologies (liberalism and social democracy respectively), and just because these ideologies have lead to some pretty similar platforms doesn't mean the parties are "basically the same". Yes, these ideologies might have both lead the parties to propose greater infrastructure and social spending, but the thought process, values and influences that brought them there is different. For example, I would be pretty surprised if a Liberal started quoting Marx, but that might be something I'd completely expect from a dipper (although I suppose Marx has kinda fallen out of fashion in social democracy, according to Wikipedia at least). Other examples of the difference in ideology between the two would be that the Liberals were pro marijuana legalization right from the get go, and also that they're pro free trade (separate from the issue of the TPP, which the Liberal's have said they'd like to see before they make a decision, Justin has congratulated Harper on getting other trade deals done). Policies which I think stem from the ideology of liberalism but not really social democracy, which is why they're coming from/came from the Liberals and not the NDP.

In conclusion, trying to rank political parties on some left/right scale is asinine and ignores a lot of nuance in the parties values and core beliefs in favour of just ranking them, apparently, on who intends to spend more money.

PS. Instead of trying to decide which party is most "left" and voting for them, do some introspection and figure out what ideology you like best and support that party.

Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others, called reactionaries, oppose modernism and seek a return to "the way things were".
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Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. The former principle is stressed in classical liberalism while the latter is more evident in social liberalism. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation
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Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy. Social democracy aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes."Social democracy" is often used in this manner to refer to the social policies prominent in Western and Northern Europe - particularly in reference to the Nordic countries - during the latter half of the 20th century. Alternatively, social democracy is defined as a political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes.
Click to expand...
 
M

mo60

Member
matthewwhatever said:
I doubt it. The Conservatives would have to decline in the Interior, Saskatchewan and...hmmm...not sure where else would work in a way that could propel the NDP to seats. There are some ridings where it's the two of them fighting for votes, but I don't think there are enough to keep the NDP in second.

.
Click to expand...

If the Conservatives collapse enough in Ontario and some other areas like Atlantic Canada and BC it's definitely possible that the NDP stay as Official Opposition.The magic number in Ontario would be like 40+ or 45+ lost for them for this to occur and probably 10-20 seats (or maybe a bit more everywhere else)unless the NDP recover a lot in the next week or so.Also besides the Praries I'm not even sure if the conservatives have any strongholds were no one is competitive with like the other two anymore since it looks like they are losing Ontario.The Liberals have Ontario and Atlantic Canada if everything holds until election day. The NDP still has BC(to a lesser extent) and Quebec(also even though their support there is a bit weaker than last election).
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Buba Big Guns said:
I'd say the advanced polling pretty much spells it out. High numbers usually means a large desire for change.
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It really doesn't. Advance polling has been up in every election for the last few years, some of which produced change and some didn't. It was up in 2011, for reference.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
lupinko said:
This was already posted above, and looks to be a non-issue.
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Yeah such a non issue that the dude resigned within hours. Obviously he did nothing wrong. This article goes into the details of why this is pretty sketchy behaviour.

If I were an environmentalist in Montreal that was against or at least cautious about Energy East I'd be pretty concerned that TransCanada already has a channel into Trudeau's inner circle. Is Energy East a done deal?

This is a reminder that the Liberal party always has been a party of business interests. Apparently, despite the campaign rhetoric suggesting otherwise, nothing has changed.
 
L

lupinko

Member
Tiktaalik said:
Yeah such a non issue that the dude resigned within hours. Obviously he did nothing wrong. This article goes into the details of why this is pretty sketchy behaviour.

If I were an environmentalist in Montreal that was against or at least cautious about Energy East I'd be pretty concerned that TransCanada already has a channel into Trudeau's inner circle. Is Energy East a done deal?

This is a reminder that the Liberal party always has been a party of business interests. Apparently, despite the campaign rhetoric suggesting otherwise, nothing has changed.
Click to expand...

mo60 said:
I don't think many people will care about this. It's mostly going to piss off people against trudeau.
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He sure called that one. Lol
 
A

Apathy

Member
Tiktaalik said:
Yeah such a non issue that the dude resigned within hours. Obviously he did nothing wrong. This article goes into the details of why this is pretty sketchy behaviour.

If I were an environmentalist in Montreal that was against or at least cautious about Energy East I'd be pretty concerned that TransCanada already has a channel into Trudeau's inner circle. Is Energy East a done deal?

This is a reminder that the Liberal party always has been a party of business interests. Apparently, despite the campaign rhetoric suggesting otherwise, nothing has changed.
Click to expand...

Did you read the article? cause it clearly says no one did anything illegal. You realize that Lobbying happens and that they not only target the Libs, but also the Cons and *shocker* the NDP. You're seriously grasping at straws for something that is not illegal, making a mountain out of a molehill because of an NDP slide and a Lib rise. You like to call out gutter and matthew for being some die hard Libs or what you perceive as something that they shouldn't do but I've seen your post trying to sling mud towards the Libs because you want the NDP to win. I mean you criticize gutter and matthew but you're guilty of the same thing, but it's for a side you believe in.
 
S

Stet

Banned
Tiktaalik said:
Yeah such a non issue that the dude resigned within hours. Obviously he did nothing wrong. This article goes into the details of why this is pretty sketchy behaviour.

If I were an environmentalist in Montreal that was against or at least cautious about Energy East I'd be pretty concerned that TransCanada already has a channel into Trudeau's inner circle. Is Energy East a done deal?

This is a reminder that the Liberal party always has been a party of business interests. Apparently, despite the campaign rhetoric suggesting otherwise, nothing has changed.
Click to expand...

Once again I'm not convinced people know what lobbying even is.
 
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