Speaking of Andrew Coyne, he does have a new (albeit 9ET) column up right now: http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-the-moment-trudeau-had-mulcairs-number
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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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These are very different situations.
This woman is an ex-lobbyist who was hired by the government of Alberta to work in a communications role. Her role is clear, and public.
It has been discovered that Gagnier is providing strategic advice for an oil company with a controversial project that has been a major issue of this election campaign while additionally being is part of the inner circle helping Trudeau get elected.
A government can have a working relationship with business, but the question is how political is this relationship? There's a difference between a government and a political party.
dragonfart28
Banned
Someone please count the number of dashes in that piece of poorly written poop.
Coyne's done much better than that.
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This last minute campaign resignation is mountains and mole hills.
eBay Huckster
Member
I can't imagine the Conservatives are going to try to do much of anything with this for that exact reason - it doesn't jibe with basically anything about their economic issue positions to do so.
DreamMachine
Member
I am Starting to get a bit worried that this could effect a minority win.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Which pollster?
eBay Huckster
Member
not seeing anything on twitter about a poll w/ the NDP at 22.8 except for nanos' release from 10 days ago
Ooccoo
Member
Honestly I feel like voting for the Bloc (I'm in Quebec). I feel like it's the only party that really represent our province. NPD is close though. Unfortunately, it's the "we must separate" rhetoric that makes me hesitate to cast my vote for Duceppe. I don't think Quebec would be stronger as a country, on the contrary. BUT I do agree we need to protect our French language furthermore. Liberals and Convervatives can go suck a dick. Why? They are OK with the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I'd hope it was from ten days ago! 35% to 32% is way too close for comfort.
Star's aggregate: http://signal.thestar.com/?r=NATIONAL
eBay Huckster
Member
tbh if I were in your position I'd vote for the Dippers - if nothing else, something like half of their seats are going to come from Quebec so they'll just be a federalist Bloc
equippedwithtowel
Member
You think the Bloc wouldn't support if it was something that didn't have the perception of disproportionally affecting Quebec? I doubt the Bloc's stance comes from strong principles on copyright and pharmaceutical law as well as a genuine care for Ontario's auto industry.
What do you think needs to be done to protect French more? I think Bill 101 and the language police have that pretty well covered. BQ are the same as the CPC, racist pieces of crap. TPP is trash too. I would vote for NDP but it's up to you.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sigh
Oddly enough, there's still nothing on the NP website about this at all.
Maybe the Tory-leaning media really doesn't know what to say about this. Heh.
matthewwhatever
Member
Today's Nanos:
Edging into majority territory, but I still don't see where the seats come from. Still no sign of anything from Mainstreet that apparently shows the same thing?
I'm not saying I love the optics of it all. Considering why the Liberals were turfed last time around, it was spectacularly stupid of the guy -- especially if he thought that emails to a CPC-friendly company wouldn't somehow get out. But if Tik is going to rant about a party being friendly to business interests, it's worth highlighting that no party is immune to those people.
Which was exactly my point. The Conservatives can't claim to be outraged by it when they've spent the last few years being Transcanada's international political communications wing, and it took less than four months for the NDP to make sure that one of Notley's key advisors was also a well-connected former tarsands lobbyist. The theatrical outrage would be much more effective if it were coming from Green supporters, who are the only ones with legs to stand on here.
Edging into majority territory, but I still don't see where the seats come from. Still no sign of anything from Mainstreet that apparently shows the same thing?
I'm not saying I love the optics of it all. Considering why the Liberals were turfed last time around, it was spectacularly stupid of the guy -- especially if he thought that emails to a CPC-friendly company wouldn't somehow get out. But if Tik is going to rant about a party being friendly to business interests, it's worth highlighting that no party is immune to those people.
Which was exactly my point. The Conservatives can't claim to be outraged by it when they've spent the last few years being Transcanada's international political communications wing, and it took less than four months for the NDP to make sure that one of Notley's key advisors was also a well-connected former tarsands lobbyist. The theatrical outrage would be much more effective if it were coming from Green supporters, who are the only ones with legs to stand on here.
gutter_trash
Banned
Duceppe used to be inclussive in the past, more inclussive than the PQ
but since the PQ went all in hardline with identity politics and the whole Maria Mourani story of getting pushed out of the Bloc because she was against the PQ's Charter of Value Village, the Bloc has become more and more closer to the image of the PQ Federally and walk in lock-step on policy and ideology.
The "progressive" Gilles Duceppe from the Left is no more.
Today we have the PQ lapdog Gilles Duceppe who takes his marching orders from PKP and the PQ who has been rewarded by PKP owned and Mulroney chaired Quebecor media tripling his media coverage on the Journdal de Montreal and TVA
these are the type of tinfoil hatters that would prefer to deny Trudeau become Prime Minister over a non story and cause Harper to stay in
gutter_trash
Banned
he is actually saying "des peanuts!!"
the oddity with hard line separatists is that they complain when other French speakers use English words in their sentences but they as party members are free to use those English words themselves at their convenience.
Just out of curiosity Gutter, are you French first language or English first language? I take it you speak both
gutter_trash
Banned
my first language is other, I learned both French and English at the same time during preschool and kindergarten.
I'm one of those bilingual Montrealers who likes to point out difference in Frederal Party leaders' speeches who say one thing in English then say something else completely different in French (*cough* Mulcair)
I see haha. I was just wondering because I have yet to meet any French first language Quebecois so openly opposed to the Bloc and PQ.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Well it seems the Liberals were spared a devastating Andrew Coyne editorial this morning. I should think they'll not be so lucky tomorrow.
gutter_trash
Banned
it's hard to weigh that in when Conservatives are sending out flyers about Liberal brothels, heroine injections then parading themselves with the Fords ironically.
The Cons have really hit a new, desperately sleazy low
They can't, but they will.
The Conservatives are always that guy covered in shit who criticizes the other person for having a bit of shit on their shoe.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Never mind that they appointed someone from an accounting firm that was under investigation for tax evasion to the board of the CRA.
I think you mean 'unironically'. I can't see the Cons vying for that hipster vote. 😜
Simon Belmont
Banned
I think that one could go either way. They're doing it unironically, but there is a lot or irony in that situation.
I have to repeat it, but if you're really outraged about Gagnier I really don't think you know what lobbying is. The word doesn't mean handshakes greased with cash or serial liars making backroom deals. This is Canada. It's a highly regulated profession with a long and involved process that mirrors any business looking for vendors, investments or charities.
The biggest issue I have with the outrage is the assumption that the email even existing is proof of some kind of conspiracy among Trudeau's inner circle.
1) The email was advice about when to lobby a minority government. If the Trudeau Liberals truly had business in their back pocket, that lobbying would not have to happen. The email would have been a tacit wink and nod about how it was already a done deal. Instead, he told a businessman when would be the best time to petition a minority government for his business interests.
2) That "minority government" wasn't just a Liberal government. The advice he gave was applicable to an NDP government as well. If the Trudeau Liberals truly had business in their back pocket, why would it be universal advice? Petition the government early, because otherwise they'll be busy with other matters.
3) Gagnier is an ex-lobbyist for energy interests! He has a strategic mind! People would want his advice whether or not he was a part of the Liberal campaign.
4) Telling someone when best to begin lobbying is just the beginning. It's not even close to a done deal. It's just advising them on the best time to set up an introductory meeting. The rest is a negotiation, a process that Gagnier would not be part of regardless of which party formed government.
Two thought experiments. First, think of a company currently looking for a new CEO, with two major possibilities. A vendor emails one of the CEO's colleagues asking when would be the best time to schedule a meeting to discuss a business relationship. The colleague tells them that regardless of which of the two CEOs is hired, the time is the same: at the very beginning. Would that be a cause for a scandal?
Second, think of a hydroelectric company asking the same question. Would that be a cause for a scandal? I bet this kind of advice isn't all that uncommon, but because it's Energy East we're talking about, the media would run with it.
And this is from someone who is wholly against Energy East, but not enough to make it a single issue on which I'll base my vote.
The biggest issue I have with the outrage is the assumption that the email even existing is proof of some kind of conspiracy among Trudeau's inner circle.
1) The email was advice about when to lobby a minority government. If the Trudeau Liberals truly had business in their back pocket, that lobbying would not have to happen. The email would have been a tacit wink and nod about how it was already a done deal. Instead, he told a businessman when would be the best time to petition a minority government for his business interests.
2) That "minority government" wasn't just a Liberal government. The advice he gave was applicable to an NDP government as well. If the Trudeau Liberals truly had business in their back pocket, why would it be universal advice? Petition the government early, because otherwise they'll be busy with other matters.
3) Gagnier is an ex-lobbyist for energy interests! He has a strategic mind! People would want his advice whether or not he was a part of the Liberal campaign.
4) Telling someone when best to begin lobbying is just the beginning. It's not even close to a done deal. It's just advising them on the best time to set up an introductory meeting. The rest is a negotiation, a process that Gagnier would not be part of regardless of which party formed government.
Two thought experiments. First, think of a company currently looking for a new CEO, with two major possibilities. A vendor emails one of the CEO's colleagues asking when would be the best time to schedule a meeting to discuss a business relationship. The colleague tells them that regardless of which of the two CEOs is hired, the time is the same: at the very beginning. Would that be a cause for a scandal?
Second, think of a hydroelectric company asking the same question. Would that be a cause for a scandal? I bet this kind of advice isn't all that uncommon, but because it's Energy East we're talking about, the media would run with it.
And this is from someone who is wholly against Energy East, but not enough to make it a single issue on which I'll base my vote.
gutter_trash
Banned
Trudeau is getting grilled by reporters right now live about it. Four questions in and that's all reporters are talking about.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.2610824
Minority government confirmed, thanks media
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.2610824
Minority government confirmed, thanks media
Hi. Speak french and I don't give a shit about Bloc and PQ to the point I will never vote for them until they drop their whole "but but separation!" thing.
Zombie James
Banned
Glorious Nanos.
gutter_trash
Banned
This is true, the majority are tired of that antiquated debate and wish they could start voting between Left vs Center vs Right parties.
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lol a Liberal supporter just booed a journalist who asked a Gagnier question then Trudeau lashed out at the supporter saying "we don't shoosh reporters who ask tough questions, we respect the work of journalists in this country""
I'm liking Trudeau's response to this.
He should have thrown in some Ray Novak shaming in his response as well.
I think what I was getting at was that I found it rare to find French 'pure laine' Quebecois sporting Gutter's brand of no holds barred Federalism hahaha
gutter_trash
Banned
lol his Montreal campaign schedual today includes campaiging in Outremont
hahahahaha
hahahahaha
Trudeau's?
matthewwhatever
Member
Considering the pure laine stuff, I've always found it surprising how much gutter loathes the separatists, but...hey, we all contain multitudes, right?
I missed this, but someone at my work just jumped up and asked if I saw it. It sounds amazing -- he handled the Energy East protesters several months ago the same way.
RE: the broader issue, I'm not sure it's the worst thing in the world to come out right now. The Liberals have been targeting Conservative voters, and there are at least three Alberta ridings where they have candidates in really tight races. What better way to neutralize accusations of the Liberals being anti-Alberta than for something like this to break? It may hurt them a little in a couple of ridings, but if it wins them Calgary Confederation/Centre/Sky View, they may be willing to make that trade-off.
gutter_trash
Banned
yup. he is doing a tour from Ahuntsic, Papineau, Outremont and possibly others
Outremont was the only one that caught my attention
CreeperBlocks
Banned
I'm actually excited because this is my first Federal Election. I just hope my vote counts.
matthewwhatever
Member
And he's apparently being joined in his tour by his NDP opponent from 2011! (Also his Conservative opponent from 2008, but that doesn't seem as important.)
I doubt they will lose many seats outside big cities. The 905 area outside of Toronto is still going to vote conservative.
killer rin
Member
CBC released their mini-doc from yesterdays news on What happens if Harper wins the most seats but not a majority? Watching it now, but its pretty good
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