You Are Viewtiful
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I want him to hold my face and blow his weed smoke onto me. 😍
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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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I want him to hold my face and blow his weed smoke onto me. 😍
This implies he wouldn't have accepted 50%+1 at the time (or whatever the required vote was in 1995), and the wiki article you posted doesn't really paint him in a bad light. He stood up for voters against perceived suppression. How that panders I'm not sure
gutter_trash
Banned
That said, Mulcair as a provincial MNA was a staunch Federalist. And he faught to try to get a recount of the ballots that were rejected.
Fastfrowrd 20 years later today.... he for strategic reasons opens up his NDP tent to allow soft-nationalsits into his party and tries to pander to them by wanting to get rid of Stephane Dion's Clarity Act.
The Tom Mulcair of 20 years ago would be ashamed of the Tom Mulcair of today.
Or happy that he clearly laid things out that Dion's act did not
Reminds me of how Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney would have been ashamed of Vice President Dick Cheney over the second Gulf War.
The idea of the NDP's Sherbrooke declaration is that Quebec has the right to self-determination, and should be able to decide for itself on the numbers of majority (ie. 50% vs 60% vs ??) of the question of how it could extract itself from Canada. In contrast the Clarity Act supported by the Liberals states that the Federal Government controls the numbers aspect of the question by which Quebec could separate.
Quebec has supported the NDP approach (The Clarity Act has been rejected by both separatist and federalist parties in the Quebec National Assembly) and as a result the NDP have a large majority of seats in the province.
Some British Columbians, such as myself, would love to be able to vote to kick out Quebec - after collecting what they owe us, and dividing it up so that the parts of Quebec that want to stay in Canada can stay. We're tired of their separatist crap. Shit or get off the motherfucking pot already!
In before tag quote.
Does anyone know how close we are to free university? I think I read something about the NDP wanting that but it doesn't seem to be an election issue, so I don't feel like they would do it anytime soon. Where do the Liberals and Greens stand on it?
Oh my god you're right. It's his eyes. His whites are the same colour as his skin so all that's left are dots.But what about Angry Smiling Sexy Tom?
Kinda reminds me of an animatronic bear on the smiling pic.
I actually wouldn't mind if Quebec separated as long as Montreal, Laval, and Gatineau stayed, and the use of the Saint Lawrence river was free / available to Canada with no conditions.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Ontario should separate while the going is good. Once the drought really hits BC they'll be flying here for water handouts. Ain't no way. God put us here for a reason and he put you over there.
I don't think Quebec should separate. I think the ROC should stop being a bunch of whiners and learn French already. I hear a bunch of people saying "but Mandarin is more important!" yet they don't speak that either!
I don't think Quebec should separate. I think the ROC should stop being a bunch of whiners and learn French already. I hear a bunch of people saying "but Mandarin is more important!" yet they don't speak that either!
gutter_trash
Banned
Cascadia sounds awesome, they got Sounders, Canucks, Seahawks color scheme going too
LOL, Parizeau was ready to leave the Mohawk reserves in Canada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAlzJnaETg0
BigJonsson
Member
I'll vote for whoever can keep my power on, 2nd time this Summer it's gone out, same streets as last time =/
Here in Vancouver, BC the following languages are more important than French:
- Cantonese
- Mandarin
- Punjabi
- Korean
- Tagalog
- Vietnamese
- Farsi
You Are Viewtiful
Member
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-006-x/2013001/article/11795-eng.htm
In all of BC, there are 296,000 speakers of French.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia#Ethnic_groups_and_languages
In all of BC, there are 342,000 speakers of "Chinese" (both Cantonese and Mandarin combined).
Learning French wouldn't hurt you.
And it's a matter of national unity. If Anglos don't learn French, then there will always be a cultural gap between Quebec and the ROC. A needless one that I think is borne of laziness. If you're too busy to learn French, that's fine, but don't promote language ignorance.
One of the movements I support a lot are immersion schools. You get the gift of speaking two languages at a functional level.
Canadians being bilingual will only help us. As much as our ideas and cultural exchange takes place between other Angolophone countries, having more cultural exchanges with Francophone cultures can only enrich us a nation IMO.
I don't particularly care about the topic but you can't mix statistics from different sources like that just cherry picking whatever numbers better support your position.
The link you got your 342,000 (actually 342,920, nice rounding) speakers of Chinese from shows 54,745 speakers of French.
Actually one thing I do regret from high school (besides not joining the high school Olympic wrestling team, our coach was Daniel Igali) was dropping French in Grade 9.
I ended up taking Japanese the rest of the way in high school (then Mandarin and German in college and Japanese again in university, though in Ontario I did take Italian in addition to French).
Anyway you may not think of it, but I'm proud of Canada's bilingualism, also for professionals and for business, French itself is still very important worldwide.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I couldn't find another source that listed the number of speakers of each language as a second language, which is why I went directly to StatsCanada for the total number of French speakers.
The 54,745 speakers in the Wikipedia article refers to native speakers of French, not all speakers of French. According to StatsCan, there are an estimated 269,700 speakers of French (as a first, second, third etc. langauge).
The bad rounding is an honest error on my part. I also rounded down the 296,700 French speakers number to 296,000, as you can see.
Anyway, not to leave on a ranty note. Quebec's separation would be devastating for the Canadian economy and Canadian psyche. I haven't heard of a separatist movement where it didn't take both countries decades to get back on their feet again, and I don't want to be the one that has to live through those painful decades.*
*Although it should be noted that most the separatist movements I read about were very violent. Quebec's separatist movement is very unique in history in that it's entirely peaceful. Still though, I can't imagine Quebec separatism being good for Ontario's economy (the West will probably have an easier time). The two provinces rely so much on each other. Once those borders go up, there's no going back.
BigJonsson
Member
I joined the wrestling team (For grade 9 and 10) and stuck with French to grade 12
Whoa
Whoa
You answered why there are 296,000 speakers of French, as well as the public school system having French as often the only option for language credits. I agree being bilingual is a good thing, I just don't agree with French being the language to be the official language anymore. Mandarin, Japanese, German, Spanish, and Portuguese (last two less about the European country and more about the Latin and South American countries) would all be more useful.
It would be a lot more useful in this modern age to have Mandarin immersion schools sponsored by the government.
Quebec had a violent period, mostly in the 60s, with a group called the FLQ.
I only found out about this recently. I can't believe they don't teach this in school. I think it was inspired by other revolutions going on around the world at the time.
BigJonsson
Member
Really? My school definitely taught me about the FLQ crisis
Terra Firma
Banned
I don't know when you went to school but we were taught this in either grade 9 or grade 10 (can't remember when; it was early 2000s).
There was even a spat with the French PM Charles de Gaulle who basically called for an independent Quebec on his visit in the late 60s, which seemed like a nod of support for separatist movements.
In my high school (Manitoba), we only had one Canadian history course which was taught in grade 11. We went from the early days in New France to WW1 with Arthur Curry and Vimy Ridge. We barely covered WWII and that was it. I remember getting sidetracked and reading ahead in the textbook. It covered the Korean War, the Cold War and I think that was it. FLQ was not mentioned at all in that book or in all my years of schooling.
I graduated in 2013 so it was recent.
Well it's not that bad, I got into shape by taking up BJJ (my head teacher is a current I think 3 or maybe 4 time world champion now) in addition to Muay Thai and Krav Maga before I left Vancouver. But a wrestling background especially with fundamentals taught by Igali would have helped my BJJ tremendously.
killer rin
Member
Mine did as well. I thought it was normal to have learned about, but a couple months ago our group was playing Cards Against Humanity and upon the card being read everyone just stared blankly and began to ask around the table to see if anyone knew what it was.
I was actually quite surprised
hydrophilic attack
Member
So, they are just like European Liberal parties. They will talk up a storm about democratic values, but if going for democratic values would be going against their economic axioms, they are ready to drop the democratic values in a heartbeat. Theyd rather be enablers of Harper going full-on authoritarian than compromise on the neo-liberal economic agenda.
Am I reading it right that this act reserves the right for the Canada House of Commons to be able to define after the fact what constitutes a true majority? So if Quebec votes 52 % in favour of independence they can just go lol, you need 60 %. Thats some bullshit if so.
Yeah, that's exactly what the Clarity Act does. It probably wouldn't work (Canada would get slaughtered by the international community if it tried to deny a successful referendum), but the House shouldn't have that option anyway. It's kind of a nuclear option for hardcore federalists.
gutter_trash
Banned
I totally disagree. Canada has two official languages. French and English. Deal with it.
The only other languages that should be taught and sponsored by the government are 1st Nations languages
The FLQ was a major part of my Canadian history class in high school, so this rather surprises me.
gutter_trash
Banned
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The violence perpetrated during October Crisis changed they way movements conduct themselves today
Thankfully, that violent period was very short lived.
.
Being violent was counter productive, even if a minority condone it; the majority of the independence movement conducts itself today in a peaceful manner by political means instead of force.
Today, that's all water under the bridge because the most violent anyone gets is probably a bar fight or two and it ends there.
Federally, it also shook the limits on how far the Federal Government can use military force at home; . The use of the War Measures Act caused everyone in Canada to question themselves on how far are they ready to go to cross the line between Law-&-Order into Martial Law
I meant more that I was surprised it's not still univerally covered in Canadian history classes
Why is Quebect independence still a topic to discuss now in 2015? It is dead and it should be buried in the history book. This is why western provinces get pissy with central Canada. Disproportionate attention is paid to Quebec that we feel are at the expense of western Canada.
That is the biggest thing holding me back from potentially voting NDP this October. They seem too Quebec-centric and I don't blame them given where their majority of MPs are located.
That is the biggest thing holding me back from potentially voting NDP this October. They seem too Quebec-centric and I don't blame them given where their majority of MPs are located.
matthewwhatever
Member
Education at all levels is a provincial jurisdiction, so the federal NDP can claim they're for it all they want -- that doesn't mean it's happening. Much like their minimum wage promise (which really only applies to less than 1% of the work), they can't suddenly start dictating provincial policies just because they're in power.
But what about Angry Smiling Sexy Tom?
Kinda reminds me of an animatronic bear on the smiling pic.
Mulcair should just never smile. It's unsettling at the very best of times. He should make peace with the fact he's no Layton, and embrace his inner Hulk.
Stephen Gordon, Economics Prof at the University of Laval: "The short-run effect of a corporate tax increase in revenues is surprisingly small (Chen and Mintz provide the references; see here for how they apply to Canada), and a good estimate for the long-run effect is zero."
Also from Gordon (drawing from lots and lots of other sources): "Theres little reason to think that increasing corporate tax rates will generate significant new revenues. The raw correlation between CIT rates and CIT revenues as a share of GDP is essentially zero, if not slightly negative."
As for raising income taxes for the wealthiest portion of the population, there's pretty ample evidence that raising taxes on people making $200k+ per year raises revenue in a way that doesn't negatively impact the economy.
gutter_trash
Banned
Yup, education is a provincial thing. The Federal can help with money and grants. But can`t really change anything on how Provinces decide how to run their ministries.
The NDP's minimum wage hike is only for Federal government workers, public workers. So the guy at McDonald's won't get affected because he doesn't work for the Federal.
I agree. To add, the real money maker that would make a significant difference is to change the capital gains tax structure. As of now, 50% of capital gains (and less for dividends for some reason) is taxed. Moving that higher to 65% would do wonders.
I definitely agree that capital gains tax needs to be restructured. The effective tax rates that are able to be pulled off by individuals who benefit the most from capital gains are hilarious.
matthewwhatever
Member
Going back to the discussion on race, the Liberals just tweeted these two images:
They have a lot of Quebec seats, but if you look at the Shadow cabinet, it's balanced, with a lot of BC MPs holding major roles.
Libby Davies - Deputy Leader
Nathan Cullen (#3 in the NDP leadership race) - Finance
Kennedy Stewart - Science and Technology
Don Davies - International Trade, Citizenship, Immigration & Multiculturalism
The only way the party is going to become less Quebec centric is if people outside Quebec elect NDP MPs, so you should!
I too regret dropping French in highschool... Until I remember how much I hated French in school. The problem with French in school is that it's all bullshit, they don't teach you how to hold a conversation in French and would rather focus on the technicalities of the language, which is complicated as it is.
I was in French immersion in grades 7 and 8, that should have been enough for me to being able to hold a conversation in French, but right now my French is basic at best.
I agree that it's a dead topic, the NDPs massive win last election is proof of that, as is their commanding lead in the polls for this coming election.
I really believe that the reason why Mulcair even supports the clarity act is because he also agrees that it's a dead topic and he's confident that there won't be a referendum on sovereignty anytime soon.
Plus I really think the NDP position as well as Harper's motion to recognizer Quebeckers as a 'nation within' Canada' does a lot more to starve seperatists of their soft support than anything the Liberals have done. It dampens the flames while Liberals in Quebec seem to, inadvertently maybe, stoke it.
Awesome. I hope they use stuff like that in attack ads. "Stephen Harper.....he's just too racist."
Why? First - What use does French or First Nations languages have to the modern Canadian?
Second - It's important for individual ethnicities to protect their culture and languages (thus why a language or culture shouldn't be forced upon them), but why would a specific language or culture be forced upon me. The greatest thing about Canada is it's accepting value to all cultures and ethnicities equally (or the closest thing to this in the world).
Your system is going backwards on that.
Those are quite potent.
For the first part, my reason for dropping French was the same as yours now that I think about it. Haha
But hey it's something with what you have at least! I can understand very basic things in French or try to figure it out.
Oh well you get wiser with age, anyway enough derail.
Well, Ignatieff had the same or at least a somewhat similar position on Quebec as Harper and the NDP. But for most grits and especially Justin, since he is his father's son, it's a non-starter.
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