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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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Azih

Member
Has he? I've always had the impression he was soft on that stance. At any rate, I'm not sure if all Canadians have a pathological fear of deficits. I mean, look at the Wynne Liberals and their landslide victory.

Hot off the presses:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/0...nce-spending-plan-mulcair-says_n_8037616.html

Of course it won't be until after Labour day that anyone will release actual numbers so maybe the NDP does have a 'concrete plan' to get additional revenues from somewhere but I'm not a fan of BALANCED BUDGET NO MATTER WHAT rhetoric.

Fear is probably the wrong word. It just seems to me that Canadians have BALANCED BUDGET=GOOD STEWARD OF ECONOMY drilled into their brain.

It's dumb.

And Wynne won because of Hudak. Not the economy.
 

SRG01

Member
Hot off the presses:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/0...nce-spending-plan-mulcair-says_n_8037616.html

Of course it won't be until after Labour day that anyone will release actual numbers so maybe the NDP does have a 'concrete plan' to get additional revenues from somewhere but I'm not a fan of BALANCED BUDGET NO MATTER WHAT rhetoric.

Fear is probably the wrong word. It just seems to me that Canadians have BALANCED BUDGET=GOOD STEWARD OF ECONOMY drilled into their brain.

It's dumb.

And Wynne won because of Hudak. Not the economy.

Okay, that's a fair point about Hudak. Ontario is always pretty nervous about voting in Conservatives or NDP provincial governments...
 
Okay, that's a fair point about Hudak. Ontario is always pretty nervous about voting in Conservatives or NDP provincial governments...

Not at all true. For as long as the Liberals dominated federal politics the Conservatives dominated Ontario.

I just got contacted by Harris Decima. I'm going to be in a focus group.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Women's rights debate scrapped after Mulcair cancels - Vancitybuzz's article.

The most interesting thing I took away from this is Trudeau and May's reactions:

Elizabeth May: What do you say @JustinTrudeau? "@stephenlautens: If I were JT and EM, I'd suggest a televised discussion on women's issues. #cdnpoli" #GPC

Justin Trudeau: @ElizabethMay Would be great. @pmharper @thomasmulcair – hope you’ll reconsider & join us. #elxn42 #cdnpoli

I hope the two of them do sit down and have a great discussion on women's rights on national television. Shame on the other politicians for playing politics on something as simple as having a discussion.
 

Silexx

Member
Women's rights debate scrapped after Mulcair cancels - Vancitybuzz's article.

The most interesting thing I took away from this is Trudeau and May's reactions:

Elizabeth May: What do you say @JustinTrudeau? "@stephenlautens: If I were JT and EM, I'd suggest a televised discussion on women's issues. #cdnpoli" #GPC

Justin Trudeau: @ElizabethMay Would be great. @pmharper @thomasmulcair – hope you’ll reconsider & join us. #elxn42 #cdnpoli

I hope the two of them do sit down and have a great discussion on women's rights on national television. Shame on the other politicians for playing politics on something as simple as having a discussion.

All eyes are still on the Duffy trial, but I hope this story picks up steam. There was a worthwhile debate to be had here, unfortunately ever since Harper started to back out of any debates he didn't like, you could see issues like this get politicized from a mile away. :(
 

t-storm

Member
Women's rights debate scrapped after Mulcair cancels - Vancitybuzz's article.

The most interesting thing I took away from this is Trudeau and May's reactions:

Elizabeth May: What do you say @JustinTrudeau? "@stephenlautens: If I were JT and EM, I'd suggest a televised discussion on women's issues. #cdnpoli" #GPC

Justin Trudeau: @ElizabethMay Would be great. @pmharper @thomasmulcair – hope you’ll reconsider & join us. #elxn42 #cdnpoli

I hope the two of them do sit down and have a great discussion on women's rights on national television. Shame on the other politicians for playing politics on something as simple as having a discussion.
I absolutely won't be voting NDP, Mulcair disgusts me and the LPC need to come out with something big, a gamechanger in the coming weeks to get out of this 3 way stalemate.
 
It looks like the women's issues debate has been scrapped altogether in favour of 1-on-1 interviews with all party leaders (except Harper, it appears). Mulcair has confirmed he will be taking part in the interviews.
 

mo60

Member
It looks like the women's issues debate has been scrapped altogether in favour of 1-on-1 interviews with all party leaders (except Harper, it appears). Mulcair has confirmed he will be taking part in the interviews.

Good to hear mulcair still wants to discuss women issues even though I do not like that he ditched the debate. I can see why he ditched the debate.
 

Azih

Member
It looks like the women's issues debate has been scrapped altogether in favour of 1-on-1 interviews with all party leaders (except Harper, it appears). Mulcair has confirmed he will be taking part in the interviews.
Might be more useful than a debate honestly. Let's see what form this takes.
 
Apologies for my super-long posts.

I thought there was a poll a few pages back that said the NDP was leading in the Atlantic now?

There's been one poll showing that, from Forum. Every other poll has had the Liberals ahead by a healthy margin in Atlantic Canada.


Huh. I stand corrected. Not sure why I thought that they were doing so poorly in BC.

Also, Greens at 32 and rising on Vancouver Island? Between that, the Kinder Morgan pipeline hearings getting delayed over a conflict of interest, and May getting lots of facetime on Newsworld today about her stance on the economy, it feels like the Greens are getting a bit of momentum. It's all on a small scale -- I don't think they get more than a handful of seats -- but still...if they can grow from being a one-person party (with all apologies to Bruce Hyer) to a parliamentary rump, that would count as a win for them.

Huh? I don't think the polls have been anywhere near as variant as you're describing here. It's been ages since the CPC have been in the mid-30s in any poll (and maybe one poll ever has had them in the mid 20s, if at all), and other than Nanos' ridiculous new polling method the other polls have been pretty well aligned with each other for quite a while.)

From Allan Gregg, the guy who basically invented Canadian political polling:
The dirty little secret of the polling business . . . is that our ability to yield results accurately from samples that reflect the total population has probably never been worse in the 30 to 35 years that the discipline has been active in Canada

Daniel Cohn, professor of Public Policy and Administration at York University:
"To do a decent public opinion poll that's going to be representative of public opinion because it's going to be as close to random as you can get, that's going to take you a couple of weeks," he said. "And in a four-week election campaign and a 24-7 media cycle, that's just not acceptable."

That Gregg link has several other similar quotes, too. I just don't think our system lends itself to public polling in the same way that the US one does (and even if it did, I don't know that there'd be the money to support it).

Surely we can talk about the election objectively without falling into your team vs my team nonsense?

Absolutely we can. But if you're going to handwave away anything that negatively affects the NDP as being not a real issue, insist that this is a two-party election, and say that you think the Liberals should just go away, that's hardly allowing for discussion, now is it?

Yeah but Mulcair has claimed that he wouldn't run a deficit. Which I'm sure polls well because Canadians have this pathological fear of deficits for some reason but is not a real policy because of tanking gas prices and new initiatives like 15$/day daycare.

I have this secret hope (well, not secret anymore) that the Conservative ads attacking Trudeau for refusing to rule out a deficit backfire, as people realize that anyone promising a balanced budget now is lying. I'm doubtful it'll happen -- since, as you said, people seem to fetishize balanced budgets now -- but at the same time, I'd like to think he deserves some points for honesty here.

Also, totally unrelated, but you're in Brampton, right? Did you see this stuff about Parm Gill? Setting aside the fact he's just lying outright, it blows my mind that the CPC gets away with having visible minority MPs spout thinly-veiled racist nonsense. See also: having Tim Uppal be the one to argue against religious symbols. (If you're in Mississauga, apologies for mixing up your GTA suburb.)


And speaking of local politics...

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson with the city's Green candidates!
CNNGDf9WIAA3hv_.jpg
Mayor Watson with the Liberal candidates!

NDP candidates: not yet, but confirmed for the next few days!

And the Conservatives?
Jim Watson said:
Regrettably all 9 Conservative candidates for a municipal briefing either didn't respond to our invitation or cancelled their participation

Admittedly, that caused Poilievre to call him right away and say that all the CPC candidates would be meeting him at some point in the next two weeks, but how insane is it that they won't even sit down for a softball meeting with a mayor to spout platitudes about how much they love a city? Notwithstanding Watson's time as a provincial Liberal minister, he's pretty much the definition of non-partisan. It's not like he was going to embarrass them all by having them stand up behind him as he ripped into Harper. The paranoia runs far deeper than anyone could imagine.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Former senator Patrick Brazeau wrote a 1600 word post that criticizes Harper and talks about his experience while he was a Conservative senator before the senate kicked him out on a vote.

http://looniepolitics.com/time-throw-harper-bus/

Interesting read and basically confirms what everyone already knew about Harper.

I wonder why no ex-Conservative has formed a new party to counter Harper and the Conservatives, seems like a lot of the competent Conservative MPs would cross over if they did start such a party.
 

Azih

Member
Interesting read and basically confirms what everyone already knew about Harper.

I wonder why no ex-Conservative has formed a new party to counter Harper and the Conservatives, seems like a lot of the competent Conservative MPs would cross over if they did start such a party.

Much easier to wait Harper out and then toss their names into the leadership race/throw their weight and influence behind one of the candidates. New parties are kinda impossible to start successfully in the current system.

The (incredibly) slight view I have on the Conservative party suggests Bernard Lord is waiting for just that.
 
Yeesh...Bernard Lord? That's a blast from the past. I remember when he was considered to be the future of the PC Party, and that was more than a decade ago.

I'm doubtful a new party could emerge. It's doable, but getting from being a rump to anything more than that is incredibly difficult. While the success of the Reform and Bloc parties shows it can happen, those were pretty rare circumstances. The more likely outcome from a bunch of disenfranchised CPC MPs splitting from the party would probably be be something like the Democratic Representative Caucus. They were a group of Reform/Alliance who split from the party as a protest against Stockwell Day's leadership...and the fact I only remember them because they made me hopeful for the future of the PC Party should tell you how successful they were.

There could be a schism following their next leadership convention, whenever that is, though I'm doubtful of even that. Harper may be holding it together now with his iron fist, but even after he leaves I can't imagine the next leader will be significantly different. Maybe a bit less control freakish, but considering how successful he's been, I think most people will try to emulate him.
 
I would say a split on the right is only likely should the NDP/Liberals institute some type of proportional representation. In that case there is no advantage to remaining one party.
 

Azih

Member
Yeesh...Bernard Lord? That's a blast from the past. I remember when he was considered to be the future of the PC Party, and that was more than a decade ago.
Dude's party won more of the popular vote in New Brunswick and yet it was the NB Liberals who somehow won a majority government. How does that make sense?
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Dude's party won more of the popular vote in New Brunswick and yet it was the NB Liberals who somehow won a majority government. How does that make sense?

First Past the Post Bro :D

I think the same thing happened to Gordon Campbell's BC Liberals in the 90s. Won the popular vote due to support spread all across the hinterland, but the NDP won due to better regional concentration.

Nonsense like this is why Proportional Representation is badly needed.

As TheGreatPotato states, under PR we'd likely see some sort of split on the right, with a more right wing party like a national Wildrose or Christian Heritage maybe pick up a seat or two. That's ok though that's how it's supposed to work. You get a parliament with a bunch of minority viewpoints and everyone has to work together.

On the left you'd see more splitting as well. You'd also see the Greens pick up a great deal more seats. Currently the ~4% of the national vote the Greens get goes nowhere (EDIT: well of course they win that one seat because the gulf islands is full of hippies).
 
Dude's party won more of the popular vote in New Brunswick and yet it was the NB Liberals who somehow won a majority government. How does that make sense?

It doesn't, which is the closest you'll ever get to engaging me on FPTP vs PR, but still: he hasn't been in politics for a decade. While it's not totally uncommon for politicians to leave public life for a little while before coming back (the current PM took a break for a bit too, even if he was still highly political)...10 years? Look at how out-of-practice Prentice got from, like, a couple of years in the private sector. I can't imagine what ten years away might do to someone's skills.


So, as if to combine a pair of big stories -- the cancelled women's issues debate AND the CPC's dislike of public events...


And what is the Cambridge Club? Good question!


Yep: a members-only club, open only to men.
 
New poll from Angus Reid: http://angusreid.org/federal-election-2015-august26/

NDP - 36%
CPC - 32%
LPC - 23%

What is notable about this poll is the very high sample sizes in each region, which is nice to see (as an example, over 900 residents from Saskatchewan vs something like 15 for Nanos' polls).

In terms of preferred government outcome, respondents ranked them thus:

- NDP-Liberal coalition
- NDP majority
- Conservative majority
- Conservative minority
- NDP minority
 

Tiktaalik

Member
The Angus Reid poll is nicely done and very readable. Everyone should have a look. Much better than the Nanos poll, which had basically zero effort put into its layout.

Things of interest:

* There is still a TON of undecided voters. Basically this election is not going to really start until half way through September. At which point I expect all of these poll graphics to change dramatically.

British Columbia
NDP down, Liberals down, Conservatives up?! This doesn't seem to fit the narrative and other polls, so maybe a weird blip?

Manitoba
The Provincial NDP is apparently super unpopular and you can see this effect on the Federal NDP here. It makes you wonder if the Ontario Liberals do something incredibly stupid in the future if it could have an impact on Federal Liberal fortunes in that province.

Quebec
Duceppe basically not having any impact. How soon until the NDP are at 60% support?

Atlantic Canada
Narrowing between Liberals and NDP, though with the Liberals way ahead. This started out as a Liberal stronghold but maybe it'll be a three way contest by election time.

"This sounding also finds the NDP ahead of the Conservatives in the region for the first time since before the 2011 election"

Welp so long Conservatives...?
 

Boogie

Member
New poll from Angus Reid: http://angusreid.org/federal-election-2015-august26/

NDP - 36%
CPC - 32%
LPC - 23%

What is notable about this poll is the very high sample sizes in each region, which is nice to see (as an example, over 900 residents from Saskatchewan vs something like 15 for Nanos' polls).

In terms of preferred government outcome, respondents ranked them thus:

- NDP-Liberal coalition
- NDP majority
- Conservative majority
- Conservative minority
- NDP minority

Justin will be our next Prime Minister.
 

Azih

Member
It's been unusual that Canadians are paying as much attention as they have during Summer. The Notley surprise, the NDP surge, and the Duffy trial were all kinda spectacularly interesting stories. Now I don't expect much to change until after Labour day when actual full policy platforms start coming out.

Conservatives have world economy FEAR AND DOOM cards to play which are potent. Though Mulcair has somehow managed to establish himself as a good economy manger to check that advantage somewhat..

Edit:

Boogie said:
Justin will be our next Prime Minister.
Hah.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
While the sample size is obviously much bigger than most other polls, I'm still skeptical: no change at all since June? Really? That strikes me as being a little off.

We're still at the stage where people are at the cottage, trying to still enjoy some summer activities before it all ends. Only political nerds are seriously paying attention to the election at this point.

If there's going to be any real movement in these numbers during the election, I would expect to see it mid-September and after.
 
We're still at the stage where people are at the cottage, trying to still enjoy some summer activities before it all ends. Only political nerds are seriously paying attention to the election at this point.

If there's going to be any real movement in these numbers during the election, I would expect to see it mid-September and after.

There was a poll that came out...last week (I think? I want to say it was the Mainstreet one, but I could be wrong), that basically said that while it's tempting to think people aren't paying attention because it's summer, it's more complex than that. People may not be actively following the campaign and seeking anything out, but they're still absorbing the info passively.

I think it's similar to the 2005-6 campaign, that took place over Christmas: everyone told pollsters they weren't paying much attention during the early stages of the campaign, but post-election they found that people's attitudes had been formed by that early election period, suggesting they'd followed it more closely than they let on. That's also what led to the move from the Liberals to the Conservatives: people talked about the campaign with friends and relatives at Christmas/New Year's parties. They weren't wonky, policy-heavy discussions, but they were enough to change people's attitudes and shift their votes.
 
There was also a CROP poll in Quebec where 20% of respondents could not name the Prime Minister. Many of those did not know the difference between Federal and Provincial.

I have a friend who does not know what Right or Left means and continously confuses the Quebec Liberals with the Federal Liberals as one and the same.

I think that Provincial counter parts of parties also have a huge affect on those people Federally.

Say the BC Liberals are not really Liberal even if it is tacked onto the name. Probably contributes to the damage on the Federal Liberals.

http://www.montreal.radioenergie.ca...uebecois-sur-5-ne-sait-pas-qui-dirige-le-pays

People under 35 y old are worse about their lack of knowledge
 

Prax

Member
I want the liberals to win, since it feels like their platform makes the most sense and is most pragmatic, but I'll mostly be fine with anyone but the conservatives.
Hopefully Harper's image gets ruined forever and we can reverse all the stupid stuff he's done over the years.
 
I'd like to apologize for the lack of interest in/knowledge of politics on behalf of that age group, of which I am a member. It is my one goal this fall to get every person in my house to vote, regardless of their end choice.

I apologize for my friend who doesn't know the difference between Federal and Provincial no matter how many times I tried to explain it to him
 

Azih

Member
Chrystia Freeland is my new hero: Liberal candidate Chrystia Freeland crashes Toronto men's club where Joe Oliver speech cancelled

The best part is the picture:


A guy in a bathrobe!

I don't know. I don't know what the point is that Freeland is making.

She later asked club president Clive Caldwell: “Why was it appropriate to have a private briefing from the finance minister here and not have the Liberal trade critic and MP for this area speak to a few reporters in your foyer?”
Because... it's a private foyer?

Caldwell offered Freeland a chance to give a talk to the club's members. Freeland, who ultimately left the club on her own accord, said she's not interested.

“I don’t speak at men’s only meetings,” she told club staff during Wednesday's exchange, noting she also doesn't speak at meetings designated for women.

Seems like the club was accommodating but she was just trying to make a point that I don't quite understand. She wants to speak to reporters in their foyer but doesn't want to speak to the members?

I don't see a big deal about womens only meetings or mens only meetings honestly.

I get that she was making a point and drumming up some media interest. I just don't understand the point.

Edit: I guess reading the story again she wanted to highlight Oliver not meeting all but the most friendlest of crowds and that's fair. The club itself seems to be collateral damage. Really weird though. The story is all mens club mens club mens club joe oliver mens club mens club mens club
 
I don't know. I don't know what the point is that Freeland is making.

Because... it's a private foyer?



Seems like the club was accommodating but she was just trying to make a point that I don't quite understand. She wants to speak to reporters in their foyer but doesn't want to speak to the members?

I don't see a big deal about womens only meetings or mens only meetings honestly.

I get that she was making a point and drumming up some media interest. I just don't understand the point.

Edit: I guess reading the story again she wanted to highlight Oliver not meeting all but the most friendlest of crowds and that's fair. The club itself seems to be collateral damage. Really weird though. The story is all mens club mens club mens club joe oliver mens club mens club mens club

I think that basically was the point, to draw attention to same-sex only clubs, and that a Conservative minister would be speaking to them. Probably more the latter.
 

Azih

Member
I think that basically was the point, to draw attention to same-sex only clubs, and that a Conservative minister would be speaking to them. Probably more the latter.

Well I don't know if I want to derail this thread with this diversion or go too far in defending these Cambridge Club people who seem like rich dudebros broing out about how rich and successful they are but... there's plenty of women's only gyms and clubs and that's alright. What's wrong with a men's only club?
 
Well I don't know if I want to derail this thread with this diversion or go too far in defending these Cambridge Club people who seem like rich dudebros broing out about how rich and successful they are but... there's plenty of women's only gyms and clubs and that's alright. What's wrong with a men's only club?

I don't think the issue was with that club specifically, but about the optics of the Conservatives pulling out of a debate on women's issues, only to turn around and send their finance minister to a men's-only club full of rich white guys.
 

Kifimbo

Member

Tiktaalik

Member
The Conservatives are running the smallest percentage of female candidates among the three main parties and they were about to send out their Finance Minister to give an exclusive economic update to a literal old boys club.

It's a great point to highlight to the media.
 

Azih

Member
I don't think the issue was with that club specifically, but about the optics of the Conservatives pulling out of a debate on women's issues, only to turn around and send their finance minister to a men's-only club full of rich white guys.
I understand that but that article was way more about the Cambridge Club than Oliver and she was really snaky towards them for being a men's club rather than focusing on Oliver. That's all. Don't have any other comment.
 

Popstar

Member
Well I don't know if I want to derail this thread with this diversion or go too far in defending these Cambridge Club people who seem like rich dudebros broing out about how rich and successful they are but... there's plenty of women's only gyms and clubs and that's alright. What's wrong with a men's only club?
Men's only clubs were (and perhaps still are) part of the glass ceiling hampering women from advancing to the top levels in many careers. A woman could not rise to the top when much of the networking was going on behind gender-segregated doors. I'm not sure how much of a problem this is still considered.
 

Pedrito

Member
Cambridge Club said:
It’s not easy to define a typical Cambridge Club member… in fact, he’s anything but typical. His style is clearly tasteful and his opinions often known. He’s competitive and clever with lots of accomplishments under his belt and plenty of old school charm.

For men who work hard and play hard, the Cambridge Club is by far Toronto’s most unique home away from home. We’re the number one choice for men who want to stay fit and enjoy life to the fullest.

Let’s hear it for the Bay Street Boys, the contenders, the connoisseurs, the tastemakers and the suits. Here’s to the early birds, the influencers, the philosophers, the party animals and the class clowns. Here’s to the Cambridge Club, where success meets sophistication. Enjoy the timeless good fun of Toronto’s legendary men’s club while getting in the best shape of your life.

Click here to connect with one of our Membership Advisors.

But how much is it? I'm in for 30$ a month and a free t-shirt. I'm not sure I have old school charm though.
 
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