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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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Quietest campaign in the history of Canada ? You wouldn't even know there's an upcoming election with the way things are going now with the Conservatives...
Unless you watch TV. Then you're reminded every commercial break about how nice Justin's hair is.
I wouldn't be surprised if what they are doing backfires on them and this is one reason people vote them out in October.
matthewwhatever
Member
I feel like this campaign is the end result of everything they've ever done. They've always had a very narrowly-defined group of voters in mind, and they've made a point of tailoring their message specifically to suit them. So far they've just been taking that to the extreme.
Or maybe they're doing it intentionally, and really are hoping for another election in 2016 in which they're the only ones who have money to spend?
Okay, that's less heroic. As someone who's resolutely childfree, it would be nice if someone tried to woo me, ever. Though it's not surprising -- the PMO made it very clear several months ago to all government workers that all announcements had to refer to families in some way, so that's really just the environment we live in, unfortunately.
EDIT: The Freeland campaign is denying the story, and the Ricochet "reporter" is at least a volunteer on the NDP campaign. So...the whole thing is probably fake.
I'm eager to see how this turns out:
It's really unfortunate that the 2008 recession didn't lead to a proper reinvestment in infrastructure, so depending on the details, this could be great. I don't know if infrastructure spending is necessarily a vote winner, but it's still nice to see someone at least mention it.
Or maybe they're doing it intentionally, and really are hoping for another election in 2016 in which they're the only ones who have money to spend?
Okay, that's less heroic. As someone who's resolutely childfree, it would be nice if someone tried to woo me, ever. Though it's not surprising -- the PMO made it very clear several months ago to all government workers that all announcements had to refer to families in some way, so that's really just the environment we live in, unfortunately.
EDIT: The Freeland campaign is denying the story, and the Ricochet "reporter" is at least a volunteer on the NDP campaign. So...the whole thing is probably fake.
I'm eager to see how this turns out:
It's really unfortunate that the 2008 recession didn't lead to a proper reinvestment in infrastructure, so depending on the details, this could be great. I don't know if infrastructure spending is necessarily a vote winner, but it's still nice to see someone at least mention it.
Oh interesting that's really good that the Liberals are going to be announcing an infrastructure plan. I was complaining a few pages back at how weirdly vague their promises in that area were so it'd be good to have them step forward with a solid plan.
I'm a big urban planning nerd so I care a lot about infrastructure. Low income Canadians have gotten very little attention so far this election, but high quality public infrastructure is something that more strongly benefits them over other groups. It's super important and deserves more discussion and attention this election, especially since Vancouver just recently had a failed referendum on creating a new tax to account for transit funding shortfalls.
The NDP infrastructure plan is pretty great. An additional 1 cent of the gas tax for cities, and $1.3 billion annually for transit. It'd be great if the Liberals could match or exceed that.
I'm a big urban planning nerd so I care a lot about infrastructure. Low income Canadians have gotten very little attention so far this election, but high quality public infrastructure is something that more strongly benefits them over other groups. It's super important and deserves more discussion and attention this election, especially since Vancouver just recently had a failed referendum on creating a new tax to account for transit funding shortfalls.
The NDP infrastructure plan is pretty great. An additional 1 cent of the gas tax for cities, and $1.3 billion annually for transit. It'd be great if the Liberals could match or exceed that.
dragonfart28
Banned
NDP in reach of majority, new poll suggests
A new poll puts the NDP with 40 per cent support, with the Liberals ahead of the Conservatives in second place with 30 per cent. The Tories have 23 per cent support.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/...o/FUijbBA6dc
Let's see what the full policy platforms of the policy look like. Such an absurdly long campaign.
It's really really dumb, and I should be above this, but whenever I look at Justin Trudeau and his good looks, and his fresh faced youthful optimism that damn Just not ready Conservative label flashes through my stupid mind. The Conservatives did a damn good job of judo in turning what should be Trudeau's personal strength into a weakness for a lot of people.
I mean hell I'm a Dipper and a policy wonk so I don't think my image of Trudeau's appearance matters much either way but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a lot of people who are honestly considering the Liberals might look at him think "I like him, but he needs to pay his dues a bit. Maybe in four, heck, eight years"
He does look *young*. The other politicians I can think of that really managed to get the hope and optimism message across in a successful campaign all looked older than JT does. I'm thinking of people like Kennedy, Obama, Pierre Trudeau, Jack Layton. And heck of those guys Jack Layton had to spend quite a long time in the trenches to convince people that he really was what he seemed like and not the insincere 'car salesman' that he was labelled as.
I think that's the kind of vibe JT is trying to channel and he can't even pull the trick Obama did and let his hair grey out so that he can look more mature and 'Presidential/Prime Ministerial'
It's really really dumb, and I should be above this, but whenever I look at Justin Trudeau and his good looks, and his fresh faced youthful optimism that damn Just not ready Conservative label flashes through my stupid mind. The Conservatives did a damn good job of judo in turning what should be Trudeau's personal strength into a weakness for a lot of people.
I mean hell I'm a Dipper and a policy wonk so I don't think my image of Trudeau's appearance matters much either way but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a lot of people who are honestly considering the Liberals might look at him think "I like him, but he needs to pay his dues a bit. Maybe in four, heck, eight years"
He does look *young*. The other politicians I can think of that really managed to get the hope and optimism message across in a successful campaign all looked older than JT does. I'm thinking of people like Kennedy, Obama, Pierre Trudeau, Jack Layton. And heck of those guys Jack Layton had to spend quite a long time in the trenches to convince people that he really was what he seemed like and not the insincere 'car salesman' that he was labelled as.
I think that's the kind of vibe JT is trying to channel and he can't even pull the trick Obama did and let his hair grey out so that he can look more mature and 'Presidential/Prime Ministerial'
NDP in reach of majority, new poll suggests
A new poll puts the NDP with 40 per cent support, with the Liberals ahead of the Conservatives in second place with 30 per cent. The Tories have 23 per cent support.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/...o/FUijbBA6dc
I'll believe it if every poll or a vast majority corroborate this/the one poll that counts says the same
NDP in reach of majority, new poll suggests
A new poll puts the NDP with 40 per cent support, with the Liberals ahead of the Conservatives in second place with 30 per cent. The Tories have 23 per cent support.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/...o/FUijbBA6dc
Forum Research should not be trusted.
crimzonflame
Member
That poll is meaningless.
I'd vote for NDP if the candidate in my area wasn't a total loser. I have to vote Liberal.
I'd vote for NDP if the candidate in my area wasn't a total loser. I have to vote Liberal.
I wouldn't call that a trick, it's more rapid aging due to stress from being Leader of the Free World. It's happened to every US president.
And I agree with you about the Tory Judo. You'd think the same trick of the character assassination ad campaign wouldn't keep working after 3 Liberal leaders, but here we are.
In Ahuntsic-Cartierville (Montreal) we have the Liberals arguing between 2 candidates and a women hating roid raged conservator going against beloved and long time winner Maria Mourani now with NPD.
NPD is clearly winning.
NPD is clearly winning.
Nah.
Dude totally pulled hair shenanigans
Too much change in a week during that 2008 campaign. I don't think he started dying his hair grey. I think he stopped dying his hair black when he needed to switch up his image.
dragonfart28
Banned
Lol
You guys are too cynical.
Obviously there is a long way to go until the election, but looking at the trend line, I wouldn't be surprised if we get an NDP minority.
gutter_trash
Banned
the election begins on the day after Labour Day.
When the kiddies are back to school and parents out of Summer mode
I agree with most that this has been the most silent non-campaign campaign
When the kiddies are back to school and parents out of Summer mode
I agree with most that this has been the most silent non-campaign campaign
I really pitty the journalists having to cover this shit show. The leaders never answer the questions asked. It's always the same regurgitated talking points that often have nothing to do with the question. It's infuriating.
On a similar topic, Trudeau honesty's about running a deficit is quite refreshing, but I think it's a very bad political move. It's much better to go with the usual "the finances were in a much worse state than the previous government had lead us to believe". At least at that point, you're already elected and the population is stuck with you for a few years.
On a similar topic, Trudeau honesty's about running a deficit is quite refreshing, but I think it's a very bad political move. It's much better to go with the usual "the finances were in a much worse state than the previous government had lead us to believe". At least at that point, you're already elected and the population is stuck with you for a few years.
Went and voted today since I won't be in Canada on election day(or the advance polling days for that matter).
Voted for the Liberal candidate in my riding, despite the NDP being my first choice, because he has the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
Voted for the Liberal candidate in my riding, despite the NDP being my first choice, because he has the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.
gutter_trash
Banned
If Gilles Duceppe starts to gain momentum in Laurier-Ste-Marie, I will vote NDP for you
Simon Belmont
Banned
I'm voting NDP even though I'd prefer to vote Liberal because the Lib in my riding has no chance. I got your back, brother.
First election since I reached the age of majority that I won't be getting a lawn sign, though.
CitizenVectron
Member
In terms of policy details and platforms, yes, but many people are already paying attention and are making up their minds.
I went doorknocking with one of the local candidates last week and most people were already pretty much sure of which party they were leaning towards. Obviously things can change, but most people already have gut feelings (which usually end up being hard to change absent a large scandal or event).
Liberal infrastructure plan announced. I could only find this short article about it. Hopefully better more detailed articles appear later on.
I had a look at the policy document (PDF Link) to try to figure out how this lines up with the NDP's infrastructure promises. To me it looks like it's $1.7 billion a year for each public transit, "social infrastructure" (affordable housing, seniors facilities, early learning and child care, and cultural or recreational infrastructure) and "green infrastructure" (local water and wastewater facilities, climate resilient infrastructure, clean energy, and clean-up of contaminated sites). Also importantly this money stays with municipalities if it's not spent each year.
"A Liberal government will automatically transfer any uncommitted federal infrastructure funds near the end of any fiscal year to municipalities, through a temporary top-up of the Gas Tax Fund. This will ensure that no committed infrastructure money is allowed to lapse, but is instead always invested in communities across the country."
On the dedicated transit front that's a great promise that exceeds what the $1.5 billion that the NDP are promising. It's great to see that both opposition parties are committed to public transit.
After this point it gets harder to directly compare as I have no idea what the NDP have committed for seniors housing, wastewater improvements etc. The NDP have promised 1 cent of the gas tax toward cities, which sounds very good as well, but I don't know how much revenue that amounts to. Hopefully the media will try to line up these platforms so that they can be more directly compared.
All in all it sounds good (though expensive). I'm looking forward to hearing more details about what sort of social infrastructure and green infrastructure spending the Liberals have in mind.
I had a look at the policy document (PDF Link) to try to figure out how this lines up with the NDP's infrastructure promises. To me it looks like it's $1.7 billion a year for each public transit, "social infrastructure" (affordable housing, seniors facilities, early learning and child care, and cultural or recreational infrastructure) and "green infrastructure" (local water and wastewater facilities, climate resilient infrastructure, clean energy, and clean-up of contaminated sites). Also importantly this money stays with municipalities if it's not spent each year.
"A Liberal government will automatically transfer any uncommitted federal infrastructure funds near the end of any fiscal year to municipalities, through a temporary top-up of the Gas Tax Fund. This will ensure that no committed infrastructure money is allowed to lapse, but is instead always invested in communities across the country."
On the dedicated transit front that's a great promise that exceeds what the $1.5 billion that the NDP are promising. It's great to see that both opposition parties are committed to public transit.
After this point it gets harder to directly compare as I have no idea what the NDP have committed for seniors housing, wastewater improvements etc. The NDP have promised 1 cent of the gas tax toward cities, which sounds very good as well, but I don't know how much revenue that amounts to. Hopefully the media will try to line up these platforms so that they can be more directly compared.
All in all it sounds good (though expensive). I'm looking forward to hearing more details about what sort of social infrastructure and green infrastructure spending the Liberals have in mind.
CitizenVectron
Member
A good plan from the Liberals, especially during a recession (when construction is cheaper and the injection of cash is needed). Both them and the NDP have some good infrastructure plans (with the NDP's gas tax distribution to the cities).
gutter_trash
Banned
Trudeau is going after the Center-Left votes but leaving himself open from the Right's attacks on ''budgets balancing themselves'' onslaught
the Liberals problem is that they are being pecked from both ends of the spectrum
the Liberals problem is that they are being pecked from both ends of the spectrum
Yup. Aside from the deep-pocketed Conservatives, I don't think anyone's really started spending money yet. September is going to be colourful.
I'm beginning to believe the bolded more and more and I don't like it.
It feels like such a weak reason, but I would vote Liberal almost completely because of the bullshit advertising by the opposition. Trying to convince seniors he is bad because he has a full head of hair. Its just such bullshit, the guy stand up and at least talks about his plans and what he will do. Not just talk shit about the other guys.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Assuming they're not even getting a minority government this go, they'd need two to tango, so to speak.
FrankCaron
Gold Member
This is the plan that wins my vote, young face and NDP majority be damned.
CitizenVectron
Member
How amazing would an NDP-Liberal 1-term coalition be, compared to a government by either? You'd get a much more pragmatic approach to all their policies, and each would be pushing to include their main policy planks. I really hope this turns out to be the case (or if not a formal coalition, a 3 or 4-year accord that legally binds them in support provided conditions are met).
Laevateinn
Member
As an American, I find Canada's fear of deficits to be somewhat adorable. Shouldn't a modest deficit be considered a good thing since it spurs growth as long as it's not being wasted on things like tax breaks for the wealthy?
A large chunk of the population doesn't know the difference between "debt" and "deficit". They hear either words and think Greece. It doesn't help that Harper consistently brings up Greece himself.
gutter_trash
Banned
''Justin wants to bailout Greece!!!''
Preach!
I wish people would understand that a nation's finances doesn't quite work the same way as an individual's finances.
This goes way farther back than greece. Deficit has been a boogeyman of Canadian politics pretty much since the 80s austerity frenzy, made worse because our left leaning options all bought into it hardcore as well (Liberals and NDP alike. At least when they're in office, anyways). Even Trudeau's "balance it in three years" is probably overly ambitious and kind of reckless.
Chretien built his government on austerity by a different name
CitizenVectron
Member
Honestly I'd vote for whoever has the better chance of beating the Conservatives in your riding. If it's a race between the NDP and Liberals, then choose who you like better.
Well fortunately for the undecided there's plenty of time left in the campaign and I think a lot more policy yet to be unveiled. For example the NDP has vaguely promised a National Housing Strategy, but the details of what that is hasn't been announced.
I'm expecting many, many more policy announcements from all parties.
CitizenVectron
Member
Me too. I'm also interesting in what Mulcair said last week, when he said that their platform is fully costed, and they would be laying out in detail how everything will be paid for. Personally I don't think balancing the budget every year is necessary (especially during recessions), but I am curious as to how they are planning to do it.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Hmm, I wasnt totally sold on Trudeau but he's making a very strong case now. I was gonna vote Lib anyway since its gonna be a tight race b/w the Cons in my riding.
I trust the Liberal financial team more than any other party. Really hoping Conservatives keep falling in the polls.
I trust the Liberal financial team more than any other party. Really hoping Conservatives keep falling in the polls.
Prax
Member
To be honest, Trudeau's campaign of a huge injection into infrastructure, even if it means deficits, sounded so promising..! I was excited that might happen!
Please help us fix and modernize the TTC, everyone!
Also in general, the Liberals ran a strong financial record in the past, so I trust them to make the right choices on that matter. Having the conservatives fall on their faces into 3rd place would be the cherry on top.
Please help us fix and modernize the TTC, everyone!
Also in general, the Liberals ran a strong financial record in the past, so I trust them to make the right choices on that matter. Having the conservatives fall on their faces into 3rd place would be the cherry on top.
Link: Mayor Tory welcomes Trudeaus promise of billions in new infrastructure spending
Yes. Please, please make this happen. Fuck that NDP geezer.
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