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[mo60]

I hope no Canadian political party does try to use any voter suppression methods this election
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ricks-preventing-voters-from-casting-a-ballot

 

[Kifimbo]

The niqab debate has a chance to hurt the NDP tremendously in Quebec. Which will help the Bloc in a lot of ridings and the Conservatives in a few others.

 

[gutter_trash]

I hope no Canadian political party does try to use any voter suppression methods this election
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ricks-preventing-voters-from-casting-a-ballot

The NDP have ready started by dropping false poll numbers in the riding of Papineau to discorage Liberal voters from showing up

 

[Vamphuntr]

Someone should make a gif at 1:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xyiiR2ZSNs

The niqab debate has a chance to hurt the NDP tremendously in Quebec. Which will help the Bloc in a lot of ridings and the Conservatives in a few others.

I'm not entirely convinced. It didn't work for Marois so I doubt it has that much a pull for the Bloc.

 

[Pedrito]

The NDP have ready started by dropping false poll numbers in the riding of Papineau to discorage Liberal voters from showing up

What?

Wouldn't it encourage them to vote instead, seeing that their leader might be in trouble? If they thought he was safe, they would have a better reason to stay home.

 

[Kifimbo]

I'm not entirely convinced. It didn't work for Marois so I doubt it has that much a pull for the Bloc.

The PQ charter was a 50%-50% issue. About 80-90% of the population in Quebec is against the niqab during the citizenship oath.

Not to mention the PQ and Marois had other problems, one of them was PKP.

 

[gutter_trash]

The Marois loss in 2013 had nothing to do about the Charter of Values.

The Marois loss was due to PKP's air fist pump of wanting a country. Period

 

[Vamphuntr]

The PQ charter was a 50%-50% issue. About 80-90% of the population in Quebec is against the niqab during the citizenship oath.

Not to mention the PQ and Marois had other problems, one of them was PKP.

I can agree with this but outside rural regions I doubt this is the definite issue that will influence voters. The way the media show Duceppe here is like a tired and desperate man that tries anything to attract votes. He flip flopped a bunch of times already (like the ISIS issue) and all the polls show him in trouble so I really doubt people will flock to a "losing" party. People also hates Harper here overall and still don't like the Liberals much and Couillard is probably isn't helping in that front.

 

[gutter_trash]

I can agree with this but outside rural regions I doubt this is the definite issue that will influence voters. The way the media show Duceppe here is like a tired and desperate man that tries anything to attract votes. He flip flopped a bunch of times already (like the ISIS issue) and all the polls show him in trouble so I really doubt people will flock to a "losing" party. People also hates Harper here overall and still don't like the Liberals much and Couillard is probably isn't helping in that front.

I think the air of this has been deflated already.

The two terrorist attacks on home soil in Nov, Dec and the aftermath is what made support for Conservatives in Quebec rise sky high last Winter.

But now, 9 months later, the majority of Quebecers by 85% are voting for other parties other than Conservative regardless of the issues.

The anti-Harper sentiment is stronger than identity issues at the present

 

[Deleted member 126221]

The Marois loss in 2013 had nothing to do about the Charter of Values.

The Marois loss was due to PKP's air fist pump of wanting a country. Period

I'll need the receipts on that. PKP is doubling down on sovereignty these days and he's polling pretty good.

Back then, the charter thing was very controversial even among the independentist activists.

You somehow manage to catch me each time I mention that place. Just let it go, man.

Do you plan to let it go with your ignorant bigot bullshit? I swear to God I'm not stalking you, but every time I open this thread I somehow land on a post of you saying how 87.3% of quebecers are hateful racists or some shit like that. So no, every time I see messages hating on a whole nation, I'll call them out if I feel like it. Thank you.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Mulcair is joining with Harper to attack Trudeau over the Liberal promise to stop the F-35 procurement process.

I'll admit that I don't know all the ins and outs of the issue, but it seems weird to back a process that's been such a disaster, and is showing every indication of getting worse.

The niqab debate has a chance to hurt the NDP tremendously in Quebec. Which will help the Bloc in a lot of ridings and the Conservatives in a few others.

Well that's depressing. I want NDP numbers to fall, but it would be nice if they fell for non-bigoted reasons.

 

[gutter_trash]

F-35s are not a good purchase. All this talk about Arctic souvernty... the damn plane is unflyable in subarctic conditions

F-16s today outperform F-35s in speed and maneuverability

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/1/f-35-struggles-dogfight-f-16-it-will-replace-pilot/

 

[Stet]

Mulcair is joining with Harper to attack Trudeau over the Liberal promise to stop the F-35 procurement process.

Ironic, because if Mulcair and Harper used actual F-35s to attack him, the assault would come late, lame and over budget.

 

[Sakura]

I dunno why they keep going on about these F-35s. Haven't we only just started replacing these damn Sea Kings, and after how long? I can't imagine any party would actually be buying F-35's any time in the near future. Certainly at least not during the next government.

 

[gutter_trash]

Americans don't even have their F-35 planes running on optimal levels

I think it is rash to commit into buying a fighter jet that is still not combat ready in the country that manufactures them

 

[Silexx]

Mulcair is joining with Harper to attack Trudeau over the Liberal promise to stop the F-35 procurement process.

I'll admit that I don't know all the ins and outs of the issue, but it seems weird to back a process that's been such a disaster, and is showing every indication of getting worse.



Well that's depressing. I want NDP numbers to fall, but it would be nice if they fell for non-bigoted reasons.

Muclair has the sensible response here. There should be a competitive procurement process that welcomes all bidders, the F-35 included. The government should then choose the most cost-effective option that meets the needs of our military. There's no need to make a decision one way or another on a particular jet before we even hear all the pitches.

 

[Sakura]

Americans don't even have their F-35 planes running on optimal levels

I think it is rash to commit into buying a fighter jet that is still not combat ready in the country that manufactures them

Nobody has committed to buying it.
And I believe all Mulcair is saying is that the F35 should be able to compete in the bidding process along with the others, which I don't really disagree with.

 

[gutter_trash]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/politics/f-35-report-question-readiness/

''F-35 tests fell short, Pentagon report says'' Sat September 19, 2015

 

[Kifimbo]

According to new daily Nanos poll, the NDP lost about 7% in Quebec since the niqab story started, while the Bloc gained 5%. Margins of error are quite high, but still.

 

[SRG01]

Money talks. There is no red white and blue anymore in the US, it's all green. In 1999, many economists and manufacturing companies begged Bill Clinton not to allow China to enter the WTO because cheap Chinese exports would flood the world market and destroy US manufacturing. One of his last acts in office was to grant them most favored nation status and much like everyone predicted, within a year, Chinese exports rocketed to the top, the trade balance grew and manufacturing declined in almost every western country. That's not to say it wasn't Made in Taiwan or Made in Japan before.

Same thing now. Money talks and the corporations want this and so it'll happen. They love the fact they can now utilize Vietnam for manufacturing because wages are even cheaper than China. I can't even remember the last time I bought something Made in Canada. Literally lost millions of jobs of good paying manufacturing jobs. There is very little economic hope for this country, especially if TPP is passed. The next step might as well become full economic control by the US and the selling of our resources (freshwater, oil).

That's the weird thing to me, I suppose. Does money really trump re-election? I suppose it doesn't matter if the party knows they're not going to be re-elected, but still...

I'll need the receipts on that. PKP is doubling down on sovereignty these days and he's polling pretty good.

Weren't there pollings done before and after PKP that showed an extremely noticeable drop in polls? The papers were even talking about it for days too.

Also, PKP polling pretty good these days? Relative to what?

F-35s are not a good purchase. All this talk about Arctic souvernty... the damn plane is unflyable in subarctic conditions

F-16s today outperform F-35s in speed and maneuverability

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/1/f-35-struggles-dogfight-f-16-it-will-replace-pilot/

F-35s are also single engine, which means that they're useless for arctic missions.

 

[mo60]

According to new daily Nanos poll, the NDP lost about 7% in Quebec since the niqab story started, while the Bloc gained 5%. Margins of error are quite high, but still.

That boost in the nanos polls won't help the bloc much and I expect the bloc's poll numbers to drop soon again. Realistically they are only looking at getting 1-2 seats with their current poll numbers.The conservative poll numbers give them room to get at least 5 seats on election night in Quebec compared to the Bloc.

 

[Walpurgis]

Do you plan to let it go with your ignorant bigot bullshit? I swear to God I'm not stalking you, but every time I open this thread I somehow land on a post of you saying how 87.3% of quebecers are hateful racists or some shit like that. So no, every time I see messages hating on a whole nation, I'll call them out if I feel like it. Thank you.

I'll let go of my "ignorant bigot bullshit" once bigotry and intolerance stop being so common in Quebec.

According to new daily Nanos poll, the NDP lost about 7% in Quebec since the niqab story started, while the Bloc gained 5%. Margins of error are quite high, but still.

 

[Azih]

I'll let go of my "ignorant bigot bullshit" once bigotry and intolerance stop being so common in Quebec.

Well they turfed Marois in a campaign she tried to fight on a bigoted platform. If the NDP does well in the federal campaign and the Bloc does not then would that be enough?

 

[Kifimbo]

That boost in the nanos polls won't help the bloc much and I expect the bloc's poll numbers to drop soon again.

Based on what ? With the French debates coming up, I don't see how Mulcair can turn it around unless he changes his position. And I fully expect more NPD Quebec MPs will come out against their party position.

Not saying the NDP is dead in Québec btw.

 

[mo60]

Based on what ? With the French debates coming up, I don't see how Mulcair can turn it around unless he changes his position. And I fully expect more NPD Quebec MPs will come out against their party position.

Not saying the NDP is dead in Québec btw.

The Bloc is literally dead in Quebec.Nothing can really help them much anymore and attaching themselves to this issue won't help them much either. I know some people want this niqab issue to hurt the NDP in Quebec, but I doubt it will hurt them much. Quebec wants harper out and they won;t vote for anyone that does not have a good chance to get him out.And about the possible eventual drop in the polls for the bloc that may happen eventualy I expect the bloc to drop in poll numbers because every single time a event helped the bloc(Like Gilles Duceppe's return) they went up in the polls, but eventually dropped in the polls again once the event that helped them was long gone.

 

[Walpurgis]

Well they turfed Marois in a campaign she tried to fight on a bigoted platform. If the NDP does well in the federal campaign and the Bloc does not then would that be enough?

Not for me. It will be enough when Quebec becomes appalled at bigotry/racism the same as the rest of Canada. Pandering to racists/bigots shouldn't be a viable strategy federally and provincially (without dog whistling at least).

 

[gutter_trash]

identity politics will be sure be big on the French language debates, especially the ones that will be moderated by PKP owned TVA hahaha.

i can see PKP preparing topics for the moderator

 

[gutter_trash]

You shouldn't use google translate to go from English to French

I will really be disappointed if they waste time on that niqab drama on the french debate. And frankly I don't think it's to the advantage of anyone to go that route except Harper. What could damage Mulcair there is his past with Alliance Quebec and I'm sure it will come up now that they went 20 years in his past for his "newfie" remark.

But yeah of course PKP will try to influence the debate just like the Desmarais use Denis Lessard in Lapresse

oh a Desmarais conspiracy therorist

 

[Walpurgis]

I will really be disappointed if they waste time on that niqab drama on the french debate. And frankly I don't think it's to the advantage of anyone to go that route except Harper. What could damage Mulcair there is his past with Alliance Quebec and I'm sure it will come up now that they went 20 years in his past for his "newfie" remark.

I agree. It's a wedge issue that has no actual bearing on most people, especially when we have significant issues like the economy. It only benefits those who deal in fear (i.e. Harper).

 

[Vamphuntr]

SRC used their voters compass app to ask Canadians what they thought of wearing a niqab during the citizenship oath.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/sujet/el...sition-contre-visage-couvert-immigrante.shtml

72% of users were against
19% were for
8% were neutral

By party allegiances
95% Bloc voters are against
92% Conservatives voters are against
62% NDP voters are against
58% LPC voters are against

By Province
Quebec 89% against
Alberta and Prairies 72% against
Atlantic 68% against
Ontario 66% against
BC 58% against

Seems Harper was right on on this one. But I'm not sure this compass thing is worth much.

oh a Desmarais conspiracy therorist

Coming from you this is pretty funny

 

[maharg]

What could damage Mulcair there is his past with Alliance Quebec(

Is there more to this than what's on wiki? Because... it's not a secret Mulcair is a federalist... Except maybe to gutter_trash.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Is there more to this than what's on wiki? Because... it's not a secret Mulcair is a federalist... Except maybe to gutter_trash.

He fought as a lawyer against law 101. That's enough to ruffle the feathers of a lot of francophones. It's the Pandora's box you can't open in QC politics. Even the provincial Liberals do nothing on that front. They simply keep the statu quo even if a large base of their voters are anglophones. Recently there was the case of some lawyer that complained that all road signs should be bilingual because he couldn't understand what "Allumez vos phares" meant. The liberal simply denied his request in a weird way saying the linguistic balance was already fine. During Jean Charest last electoral campaign, he tried to promise as a last resort that he would improve protection of French only to packpedal quickly because his base didn't like it. As such it's really a topic not to be touched.

If they found that newfie remark they probably have something to use on that front. He wasn't there went the movement became radical in the 90s but knowing Harper he'll make him guilty by association.

 

[maharg]

I don't think Harper is likely to use being against Bill 101 against anyone. That would risk a lot of support he actually has in the west. Controlling what people wear, though, is something his base is all about.

 

[Tiktaalik]

There seems to be a growing consensus that the F35s are garbage, but Mulcair is totally correct here that it would be wrong to prematurely and arbitrarily exclude them from the process. The entire way military procurement is done needs to be totally depoliticized. Whether the F35s are a good or bad fit for Canada's military should be decided by objective experts in the public service based on clear performance standards.

 

[matthewwhatever]

An open process would be preferable to what we have now, but I think it makes a lot of sense to invest the money earmarked for F-35s into the Navy. We definitely need new planes, but I think that the state of our fleet is a much more pressing concern.


Also, new Ipsos-Reid numbers:

LPC 33 (+2)
NDP 30 (-2)
CPC 27 (-2)
GPC 4 (-)

If I'm not mistaken, it's the first non-Nanos poll that has the Liberals in the lead, though like the Nanos dailies that have the LPC ahead, it's all because of the strength of their Ontario vote.

 

[mo60]

The forum poll shows the Conservatives at 33% support
http://www.hilltimes.com/news/polit...pport-following-globe-debate-on-economy/43487

Their seat count prediction for their conservatives is really high(around 145 seats).

Figuring out who will win this election is still painful.

 

[CitizenVectron]

The margin of error for all these polls puts all parties between 29-31%. The news reports on these swings of 2 or 3% in way too dramatic a fashion considering how the margins are so large. The polling industry says they are so concerned about their reputation, yet continue to do pretty bad polling in terms of sample sizes and time frames.

 

[gutter_trash]

one poll has Cons on 1st, another on 3rd, lol

 

[Kifimbo]

An open process would be preferable to what we have now, but I think it makes a lot of sense to invest the money earmarked for F-35s into the Navy. We definitely need new planes, but I think that the state of our fleet is a much more pressing concern.


Also, new Ipsos-Reid numbers:

LPC 33 (+2)
NDP 30 (-2)
CPC 27 (-2)
GPC 4 (-)

If I'm not mistaken, it's the first non-Nanos poll that has the Liberals in the lead, though like the Nanos dailies that have the LPC ahead, it's all because of the strength of their Ontario vote.

Another poll showing a bump for the Bloc. +5 this time.

one poll has Cons on 1st, another on 3rd, lol

It means it's a tie. Like it has been from the start.

 

[Holmes]

So the election has regressed back to Canadian norms and has becoming about choosing between the conservative party and the conservative-lite party.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Je n'ai pas entendu de jokes de "newfies" depuis environ 20 ans. Ce sont de vieilles blagues plates de "mononcles"!

This.

I'll let go of my "ignorant bigot bullshit" once bigotry and intolerance stop being so common in Quebec.

That's a no, then.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Not for me. It will be enough when Quebec becomes appalled at bigotry/racism the same as the rest of Canada. Pandering to racists/bigots shouldn't be a viable strategy federally and provincially (without dog whistling at least).

Fucking whaaaat? The rest of Canada? Like the one who elected Stephen Harper, Mr "fear of the other" himself, for NINE fucking years (and will probably re-elect him)? But that doesn't prove anything.

Yet a 3-4% jump in a poll for an almost-dead party because of a ridiculous wedge issue (one introduced by your incredible prime minister) is solid proof that Quebec is full of bigots. Yep, makes sense.

Do you just get a kick out of shitting on Quebec or do you seriously believe what you're saying to somehow justify your racist opinions?

oh a Desmarais conspiracy therorist

Conspiracy theory? Desmarais is pretty open about his political affiliations.

 

[gutter_trash]

Conspiracy theory? Desmarais is pretty open about his political affiliations.

Provincially yes but Federally not so much. Both Murloney and Chretien attend their big wig parties. Even if one of his daughters is married to one of Chretien's sons

Power Corp has employed both Liberals and Progressive Conservatives

 

[Stumpokapow]

You shouldn't use google translate to go from English to French

I didn't, but my written French is rubbish after years of not speaking it (last time I routinely spoke French was high school, so we'll over a decade ago)

 

[Apathy]

Fucking whaaaat? The rest of Canada? Like the one who elected Stephen Harper, Mr "fear of the other" himself, for NINE fucking years (and will probably re-elect him)? But that doesn't prove anything.

Yet a 3-4% jump in a poll for an almost-dead party because of a ridiculous wedge issue (one introduced by your incredible prime minister) is solid proof that Quebec is full of bigots. Yep, makes sense.

Do you just get a kick out of shitting on Quebec or do you seriously believe what you're saying to somehow justify your racist opinions?


Conspiracy theory? Desmarais is pretty open about his political affiliations.

From I gather from Walpurgis so far is that it's easier to call the people that disagree with him bigots/racist because of the niqaab issue than even consider any changes, despite the fact that niqaabs and other religious garments have been and are used by some as forms of oppression on women. While it's not 100% the case all the time it isn't 100% choice either. And it's not only the case inside Islam but other religions as well. Hiding behind the charter and saying it's protected under that is also a fallacy as the charter is not absolute either. It's the same reason we don't have 100% free speech or 100% freedom of religion to begin with, because we have reasonable limits on those things.

While this is a wedge issue to say everyone that want's to change how niqaabs or say a burka is not automatically a bigot/racist. No one is saying that they want to take a person's right away to practice a religion but there can be limits to what a religion can do. We already know the charter has limits for religion, like why people whos religion says they can have multiple wives can't do it here, or people that have their religion say they can have illegal narcotics for rituals are also not prohibited. To simply throw around the word bigot or racist to people that want to see some changes is a serious accusation.

 

[gutter_trash]

So the election has regressed back to Canadian norms and has becoming about choosing between the conservative party and the conservative-lite party.

You calling the Mulcair oriented NDP as Conservative-lite?

 

[Azih]

despite the fact that niqaabs and other religious garments have been and are used by some as forms of oppression on women.

Don't do this. Zunera Ishaq, the woman who is giving Harper a spanking on this, doesn't think so and the only people whose opinion really matters on this are the people wearing the damn things.

To speak for them when they can speak for themselves (As Ishaq is doing) is either concern trolling or patronizing.

 

[Walpurgis]

Fucking whaaaat? The rest of Canada? Like the one who elected Stephen Harper, Mr "fear of the other" himself, for NINE fucking years (and will probably re-elect him)? But that doesn't prove anything.

Yet a 3-4% jump in a poll for an almost-dead party because of a ridiculous wedge issue (one introduced by your incredible prime minister) is solid proof that Quebec is full of bigots. Yep, makes sense.

Do you just get a kick out of shitting on Quebec or do you seriously believe what you're saying to somehow justify your racist opinions?

Stephen Harper has nothing on Quebec politicians like PQ and CAQ. Unlike them, he deals in dog whistles and veiled racism because that's as far as he's allowed to go. PQ and CAQ take it all the way - they don't even try to hide it because they don't have to. Both are bad but there's no sense in trying to equate them.

Why are you calling me racist? I don't understand. I don't even know what race Quebec is supposed to be. Pure laine maybe?

From I gather from Walpurgis so far is that it's easier to call the people that disagree with him bigots/racist because of the niqaab issue than even consider any changes, despite the fact that niqaabs and other religious garments have been and are used by some as forms of oppression on women. While it's not 100% the case all the time it isn't 100% choice either. And it's not only the case inside Islam but other religions as well. Hiding behind the charter and saying it's protected under that is also a fallacy as the charter is not absolute either. It's the same reason we don't have 100% free speech or 100% freedom of religion to begin with, because we have reasonable limits on those things.

While this is a wedge issue to say everyone that want's to change how niqaabs or say a burka is not automatically a bigot/racist. No one is saying that they want to take a person's right away to practice a religion but there can be limits to what a religion can do. We already know the charter has limits for religion, like why people whos religion says they can have multiple wives can't do it here, or people that have their religion say they can have illegal narcotics for rituals are also not prohibited. To simply throw around the word bigot or racist to people that want to see some changes is a serious accusation.

I'm not specifically talking about the niqab with regards to Quebec. I'm talking about Quebec culture in general.

As for the niqab, you support banning it because you think that it is a form of oppression. However, the act of banning itself is a form of female oppression, especially since it doesn't affect males - only females. If a woman is being forced to wear the niqab by her husband, how will banning it help her? Wouldn't this woman have bigger problems that the government could focus on, like free, high quality, multilingual women's shelters to help her out of a bad situation? This law is not for women, it is for old white men who wish to stomp on an already very weak group in this country. And it's clear that they don't expect these women to fight back.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I didn't, but my written French is rubbish after years of not speaking it (last time I routinely spoke French was high school, so we'll over a decade ago)

FWIW, I thought your French was fine, understandable enough and clearly written as a second language and not through an online translator. ^^

Why are you calling me racist? I don't understand. I don't even know what race Quebec is supposed to be. Pure laine maybe?

Hoho. I'll remember that next time you complain about someone using the "Islam isn't a race" defense.

I'm not specifically talking about the niqab with regards to Quebec. I'm talking about Quebec culture in general.

Yes, yes, we're aware of how deep your anti-Québec bigotry runs.

This law is not for women, it is for old white men who wish to stomp on an already very weak group in this country.

You're disingenuous or deluded if you really think that. It might be an unfortunate side-effect, sure, but people who oppose the niqab most certainly do so because they think, rightly or wrongly, that it's oppressive to women, not because of arbitrary Muslim hate.

 

[Azih]

but people who oppose the niqab most certainly do so because they think, rightly or wrongly, that it's oppressive to women, not because of arbitrary Muslim hate.

Some people maybe but certainly not for others. For a lot the niqab is bad because it symbolizes Muslims. You have seen the kind of ugly shit that gets said to hijabis right? There's video of women being harassed over it especially when Marous was at the height of her hateful ways.