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Captain America: The Winter Soldier SPOILER THREAD | ...does anyone want to get out?
- Thread starter Replicant
- Start date
And to think i liked him, he was Coulson buddy buddy
It hit me hard the git
Yup. "....yuo got assigned to the Lemurian star" said Hand. I wonder whose side she is.
crimsonspider89
Banned
She only went crazy once and dealt with it in WCA after Darker than Scarlet.
Bendis ignored the fact and tried to turn her into a villain.
Please don't quote HoM and Disassembled. Those events ignored history of her dealing iwth the problems.
And Pietro isn't insane either. He is just constantly bitter.
Red Arremer
Member
Yes, but she has been crazy, that is my point. The fact she grew up in a dysfunctional family setting with her brother trying to control her didn't help, either.
Also, Pietro not insane? Please. He might not be a nutjob psychopath like the Punisher, but calling him "just bitter" is a bit of an understatement. He's done more than one thing to prove that he has issues. The whole problematic relationship and marriage with Crystal, his reaction to finding out their child didn't have any powers, and forcing her into the Terrigen Mists in an age that is way below recommendation.
I know some of this is partly rooted in when Wanda made him one of the mutants to lose their powers, and him trying to cope with it by inhaling Terrigen didn't bother me, but doing that to his own daughter? That's crazy, not bitter.
Sub-title of the thread is genius!
Saw this tonight and it's easily the best Marvel solo film so far and the second best superhero movie I've seen behind Avengers. Loved the political thriller plot elements, the action scenes were brilliant (car chase with Fury was my favourite), the fight choreography was fantastic and some of the best I've seen in ages and they did a great job of giving most characters a good amount of screen time. It basically felt like a Secret Avengers movie rather than a Captain America movie at times.
The Winter Soldier himself was a total badass and it was great seeing him translated to the big screen so well. The same goes for Falcon, I was worried what they would do with him when he was first announced, but I'm glad they just basically made him the Ultimate Comics version and it was nice to see him play such a large role in the second half of the film.
It was great to hear the Dr Strange reference too. I totally want to go and see this again.
Saw this tonight and it's easily the best Marvel solo film so far and the second best superhero movie I've seen behind Avengers. Loved the political thriller plot elements, the action scenes were brilliant (car chase with Fury was my favourite), the fight choreography was fantastic and some of the best I've seen in ages and they did a great job of giving most characters a good amount of screen time. It basically felt like a Secret Avengers movie rather than a Captain America movie at times.
The Winter Soldier himself was a total badass and it was great seeing him translated to the big screen so well. The same goes for Falcon, I was worried what they would do with him when he was first announced, but I'm glad they just basically made him the Ultimate Comics version and it was nice to see him play such a large role in the second half of the film.
It was great to hear the Dr Strange reference too. I totally want to go and see this again.
OK, after a few days have passed, there's one thing that bothered me a bit that I don't think anyone has mentioned.
I haven't watched Cap 1 for a while, but if I remember correctly, Zola in that movie looked like he did have some reservations with what Red Skull was doing. Obviously, he was in it for the science, but in very subtle ways, he always looked like he was not quite sure of how far RS had taken everything.
Fast-forward, and now he is 100% behind Hydra and working it inside of SHIELD. It's obvious he didn't do it alone, and it stands to reason that a lot of the recruited scientists and other people after WWII were on it too (and I understand Zola is a quintessential villain in the comics, so not using him for this would've been a missed opportunity), but during that AI scene it did seem to me that he was much more of a Hydra agent than how he looked in the first movie.
I concede that might've been only my perception, as the first part of my post was never shown explicitly, but it still left me wondering a bit.
I haven't watched Cap 1 for a while, but if I remember correctly, Zola in that movie looked like he did have some reservations with what Red Skull was doing. Obviously, he was in it for the science, but in very subtle ways, he always looked like he was not quite sure of how far RS had taken everything.
Fast-forward, and now he is 100% behind Hydra and working it inside of SHIELD. It's obvious he didn't do it alone, and it stands to reason that a lot of the recruited scientists and other people after WWII were on it too (and I understand Zola is a quintessential villain in the comics, so not using him for this would've been a missed opportunity), but during that AI scene it did seem to me that he was much more of a Hydra agent than how he looked in the first movie.
I concede that might've been only my perception, as the first part of my post was never shown explicitly, but it still left me wondering a bit.
Hmmmm. I haven't seen the first movie in a while, so this might not be the most accurate viewpoint, but if Zola was hesitant about anything, maybe it was more so of the danger and power the Tesseract presented, rather than anything else? I don't see why a Nazi scientist working for the Red Skull would really have any concerns about world conquest or Hydra, but he could be worried about the Tesseract's power being used too quickly without understanding it fully.
That could be it. I think he always seemed too scared to me in that movie. Both of the cube's power and of RS himself, and when he was captured he pretty much gave everything away. He never struck me as a loyalist, and well, Hydra loses heads fairly quickly.
Him being behind TWS I can totally picture, due to the science and experimenting aspect of it. That means he doesn't really have any ethical concerns, but even then he never struck me as someone with an ultimate plan. I guess he was mostly just part of it again, with his algorithm being the central piece, I just never thought of him as someone who identified so deeply as part of Hydra like when he was talking to Cap and Widow, but then again, the first movie wouldn't really be a place to show that.
Him being behind TWS I can totally picture, due to the science and experimenting aspect of it. That means he doesn't really have any ethical concerns, but even then he never struck me as someone with an ultimate plan. I guess he was mostly just part of it again, with his algorithm being the central piece, I just never thought of him as someone who identified so deeply as part of Hydra like when he was talking to Cap and Widow, but then again, the first movie wouldn't really be a place to show that.
BronsonLee
Member
So...who's ready for the massive influx of people coming in here tonight?
This is just like what happened with Gravity; I saw it eariler than expected (like a month or so), so I couldn't say shit to the friends and such until much later
This is just like what happened with Gravity; I saw it eariler than expected (like a month or so), so I couldn't say shit to the friends and such until much later
Remember back in TFA how he had a separate hall in the prison? Remember he had Bucky tied? He's pretty far the moral horizon, yeah he's a pussy (i mean, he's like 4' 5") but that doesn't makes him less ruthless and with the protection of the "good guys" he could have anything he ever desired, total freedom to do what ever he wanted without risking his neck.
I don't get the impression that he was a leader or someone who ran Hydra at all. It seemed more like his AI was being tapped as a resource, and since the real person was dead, the AI had no reason to not want to help as long as it furthered their scientific cause. In the end, it was other Hydra agents actually carrying out plans and making decisions, and in the post-credits it was Von Strucker supervising the current experiments. Zola was always just a tool I think.
Edit: As for how much of a "loyalist" he was, I suspect he was just following the lead of others who already planned to infiltrate SHIELD. A lot of the grandstanding he does in the movie has more to do with him personally taunting Steve Rogers, because they knew each other, and he wanted to feel that he was "beaten" him even from beyond the grave.
Callibretto
Member
Strucker at the end is Hydra too right? seems like he could be the one pulling string behind the scenes. Alexander Pierce is not necessarily be the mastermind behind all this.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Doesn't matter. Only matters for Guardians of The Galaxy.
BronsonLee
Member
The way I see it, Zola was always bitchmade, but a snake in the grass either way. So he never really stuck to helping SHIELD, really.
Then when he got turned into an AI...you remove the bitchmade part and shit gets real
Then when he got turned into an AI...you remove the bitchmade part and shit gets real
I think you are right on this.
The whole AI scene was pretty cool. I loved his voice.
Could be. I didn't want to make any assumptions on Strucker until we see his role in full, but that was a badass scene.
Oh yeah. I almost forgot of him. He did mention that are going to slip some info of other HYDRA bases to keep Rogers and the rest busy while he goes ahead with other more grandiose scheem.
BronsonLee
Member
I would take that as being less committed actually
I thought that at first too, but if there were two directives:
Lower Level: Cyanide Pill
Higher Level/Potential Refugee: Infiltrate
hrmhrmhrm
disillusion386
Member
Saw it last night and absolutely loved it. When they released the first MCU movies, and I saw how they handled the first Captain America movie, I knew this plotline would make it on the screen. Couldn't be happier especially considering Bucky became one of my favorite characters when I was still reading comics. Also loved the Brubaker cameo.
Odothehero
Member
The Australian version had Tim Tams on captain's list which got a big laugh in the cinema when I saw it last night.
If i recall correctly also had Skippy and Steve Irwin.
Just saw this.
Next-level fight scenes. Holeeeeee shit.
I am super impressed with the production values of these comic book movies. They just keep getting better and better.
The story was great.
And, dare I say it, the movie was visceral in the best possible way. The action scenes were very impressive and brutal.
Redford was a great villain who believed in what he was doing without being a cackling cartoon evil.
And Winter Soldier was a super cool villain. And I like that the power levels of everyone here was not super-comic level like in the Avengers. It felt more grounded if that makes sense.
Loved the Zola reveal.
Black Widow never looked better. Give her that solo movie.
Next-level fight scenes. Holeeeeee shit.
I am super impressed with the production values of these comic book movies. They just keep getting better and better.
The story was great.
And, dare I say it, the movie was visceral in the best possible way. The action scenes were very impressive and brutal.
Redford was a great villain who believed in what he was doing without being a cackling cartoon evil.
And Winter Soldier was a super cool villain. And I like that the power levels of everyone here was not super-comic level like in the Avengers. It felt more grounded if that makes sense.
Loved the Zola reveal.
Black Widow never looked better. Give her that solo movie.
LumpOfCole
Member
Just got back from seeing this. I'll definitely be glued to the television for the rest of the season for 'Agents of SHIELD' now, just to see how that show deals with this fallout. Good job on finally getting that synergy, Marvel.
Great film. Winter Soldier was what Kai Leng should have been in Mass Effect 3.
Great film. Winter Soldier was what Kai Leng should have been in Mass Effect 3.
phazedplasma
Member
As a huge captain america fan I will say that The Winter Soldier delivered immensely.
Had a huge smile on my face the whole time. They nailed Bucky and now I want Cap 3 more than AoU
Had a huge smile on my face the whole time. They nailed Bucky and now I want Cap 3 more than AoU
Joe Prodigy
Member
Wowwww that movie did not disappoint. Loved it. I'll have to see it again over the weekend.
kingofthedead45
Member
Just saw it, dat Steven Strange reference got me so wet. I don't care if it was just one sentence.
Not clear enough to catch anything (i tried), not until the BD i guess or some official source.
There was a shot of the White House and President Ellis was targeted.
x Power Pad Death Stomp x
Member
Ummmmm...how is Agents of Shield a show anymore?
ncxcarnage
Banned
HYDRA needs to hit up OSCORP. They were barking up the wrong tree at SHIELD.
Next episode will deal with the events of the movie. Will be renamed to Agents of W.E.L.F.A.R.E
Or they can join Hill at Stark's
I'm guessing that the high school kid who was a serious threat to shield (along with Strange and Bruce Banner) was Amadeus Cho?
If they do a Herc 'n Cho buddy movie hoooooollllyyy fuck
Also, the evil computer scientist - now im not as up on Captain America as I am the rest of the Marvel U- but was that supposed to be MODOK or something?
If they do a Herc 'n Cho buddy movie hoooooollllyyy fuck
Also, the evil computer scientist - now im not as up on Captain America as I am the rest of the Marvel U- but was that supposed to be MODOK or something?
Callibretto
Member
If the plane survives upcoming episode of shield, then maybe when Fury said he's going to europe, he's with coulson now. Or coulson and his team stay alonr and now their mission is hunting rogue shield agents
Arnim Zola.
Starphoenix
Member
People are saying there are no tie-ins to Ultron, but I got the impression that Zola's "algorithm" is going to morph into the Ultron A.I. So much seemed to tie into that with Project Insight, for me at least.