ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Really wish they would have put Coulson in the movie.
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Captain America: The Winter Soldier SPOILER THREAD | ...does anyone want to get out?
- Thread starter Replicant
- Start date
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Or at least just mentioned him.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah, I really liked that moment as well.
So do I. I wanted to see a reaction to that Sitwell betrayal.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I don't think so. I think this Phase is moving in real time, so Winter Soldier is a year or something after Iron Man 3, making Avengers 2 three years after Avengers, with Thor taking place a few months beforehand.
So...
Avengers
Iron Man 3 a few months later
Thor a year later
Winter Soldier a few months after that
Avengers 2 a year later
I just have 2 questions.
Has Bucky been modified in any way beyond his left arm? I noticed he jumped down from the bridge while the other guys had to rappel.
Also, I would be very thankful if someone could point me to which issues have the Brubacker run of the Winter Soldier storyline. I notice it's on sale at comixology and I want to dig in and read some more. Caveat: I have not read any comic besides Sandman; does this arc require some previous issues in order to fully appreciate it?
Has Bucky been modified in any way beyond his left arm? I noticed he jumped down from the bridge while the other guys had to rappel.
Also, I would be very thankful if someone could point me to which issues have the Brubacker run of the Winter Soldier storyline. I notice it's on sale at comixology and I want to dig in and read some more. Caveat: I have not read any comic besides Sandman; does this arc require some previous issues in order to fully appreciate it?
Yeah. They pretty much modified him to be a match for Steve.
That is how he survived falling from the train in the first movie.
terribletwo
Member
Did First Avenger allow for this chronologically? I was wondering if it was a slight retcon
In First Avenger when Cap is saving a bunch of POWs, he finds Bucky strapped to a chair in Zola's lab. Nothing is mentioned of it, but the suggestion is that he's been enhanced just like Steve.
Oh I didn't know phase 2 chronology was real time. I don't align with the posts asking why [superhero] doesn't appear in [superhero]'s film, but the lack of a mention of another hero's whereabouts is a bit odd. Just even a throwaway line would be good enough.
Or maybe allof that is handled by Agents of SHIELD and I don't know about it because I gave up on the show 5 eps in.
T.M. MacReady
NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
Cap even mentions that in CA:TWS. That he had been experimented on before Cap had freed him and his unit.
Not a one.
For some reason that scene where Steve falls from the Hellicarrier but not doing anything to stop himself from dying reminds me of Spike falling from the Church in Cowboy Bebop:
http://youtu.be/amCYjep3KMQ?t=46s
It's just an awesome moment captured on screen. Also despite Steve winning, the scene felt somewhat sad and melancholic. He won the fight but he also lost so much in the process.
http://youtu.be/amCYjep3KMQ?t=46s
It's just an awesome moment captured on screen. Also despite Steve winning, the scene felt somewhat sad and melancholic. He won the fight but he also lost so much in the process.
For some reason that scene where Steve falls from the Hellicarrier but not doing anything to stop himself from dying reminds me of Spike falling from the Church in Cowboy Bebop:
http://youtu.be/amCYjep3KMQ?t=46s
It's just an awesome moment captured on screen. Also despite Steve winning, the scene felt somewhat sad and melancholic. He won the fight but he also lost so much in the process.
The scene with Steve falling also reminded me of the opening scene of Skyfall where 007 is shot and falls into the water presumed dead. Same kind of music too.
Which reminds me of the scene from the Bourne Ultimatum where he falls off the building into the river and everyone thinks he's dead.
Jest Chillin
Member
Phase 2 moves in real time and that's reflected by the tie-ins to AoS, but AoS isn't a stop-gap between movies. It's just another thing going on in the Universe along side the movies. So while there are occasional mentions of characters or cross-overs (so far all minor outside of Fury in one ep) AoS addresses different threats. However given that the events of TWS, it should have some pretty major reprecussions seen in AoS, starting Tuesday.
Not very often you get a scene (or any moment of fiction) that has all the right ingredients for a happy ending and yet still somehow feels like everything is lost and gone. People cried at that scene.For some reason that scene where Steve falls from the Hellicarrier but not doing anything to stop himself from dying reminds me of Spike falling from the Church in Cowboy Bebop:
http://youtu.be/amCYjep3KMQ?t=46s
It's just an awesome moment captured on screen. Also despite Steve winning, the scene felt somewhat sad and melancholic. He won the fight but he also lost so much in the process.
I'm starting to think they're gonna' do the important important scenes right after the the main credits while do an extra non-important scene after the long credits.
I wonder if anybody at Marvel Studios suggested doing a tanker scene because of MGS2.
Had a film professor that would rip into anyone if they left a theater before the credits were through. Idea was essentially that these were the people who made your entertainment that you've been watching for the past 2 hours, staying for 5 more minutes shouldn't be too difficult.
Used to be that the credits were all up front, before the film, mostly because you'd figure people would get up and leave once "The End" hit the screen. Over time, Hollywood decided to say 'fuck you' to all the peons involved, and shove the credits where no one would ever see their names.
Can't say that I stay through every credits roll on every movie, but that class certainly got me more in the habit of doing so. I am shocked that people will bitch about sitting for 5 minutes to see a quick stinger. If you're not interested in the stinger, and you're not interested in the credits, then leave, no big deal. If you are interested in the stinger, then it shouldn't be hard to spend five minutes watching credits or discussing the movie you've just seen with friends.
However, I do agree that the mid-credits scene and the end-credits scene should have been reversed. Of course, they royally fucked up the first Captain America end credits scene, so this is certainly better than that.
Used to be that the credits were all up front, before the film, mostly because you'd figure people would get up and leave once "The End" hit the screen. Over time, Hollywood decided to say 'fuck you' to all the peons involved, and shove the credits where no one would ever see their names.
Can't say that I stay through every credits roll on every movie, but that class certainly got me more in the habit of doing so. I am shocked that people will bitch about sitting for 5 minutes to see a quick stinger. If you're not interested in the stinger, and you're not interested in the credits, then leave, no big deal. If you are interested in the stinger, then it shouldn't be hard to spend five minutes watching credits or discussing the movie you've just seen with friends.
However, I do agree that the mid-credits scene and the end-credits scene should have been reversed. Of course, they royally fucked up the first Captain America end credits scene, so this is certainly better than that.
Are you for serious though? Everything around Bucky was totally unearned. He ran around the globe straight murdering people for fifty years--magically mind-wiped and brainless?--but it's cool he's Cap' broke through right to his humanity by saying the guy's line back to him?
It's not like he was wrestling with moral quandaries anywhere else in the movie; he wasn't on an arc to discover himself; he's a perfectly silent, cold-blooded murderin' blank slate without any agency whatsoever until the Hero tells him he should have some?
I hate to be the guy saying comic books and their movies have bad stories but c'mon. That's not drama at all! Bucky didn't even have anything at all to do with the rest of the movie! He's even almost positioned as some kind of foil for Captain, powerful order-followin' guy corrupted by bad orders except they never articulate that or explore it at all.
...Someone even says "two sides of the same coin" except Captain and Winter Soldier aren't actually that. It falls apart under any scrutiny. I'm saying, there's like a glimmer of something under there, but it clearly got cut out or abandoned at some point during script rewrites.
Winter Soldier being Bucky is completely inconsequential to the story they put on the screen, and the movie would've been stronger if Winter Soldier had just kept his mask on.
Like spend any of that time running with [heh!] the chemistry between Falcon and Cap'in'.
Just saw this today. Great movie, really surprised me by how good it actually was. Even though I called the plot twists the moment Fury met the Chairman guy the first time. And then the moment they showed bucky in the smithsonian i knew he was the winter soldier.
But it really shows the problem with the marvel universe bullshit. Like by the end of the movie all i am thinking is. This shit is going down and these weaklings are fighting it out for no reason at all. Thor, Iron Man, Hulk and come and bust that shit up in like 2 minutes. Hydra aint shit. Like it doesn't even make sense shield is breaking down millions gonna die and this guy doesn't even bother asking Iron Man, Thor or Hulk?
Yeah I'm sure many will give some bs excuse like "oh they busy doing other shit" yeah like iron man or thor can't take 5 mins to come and destroy the ships in like 10 minutes and leave. Hell iron man could have sent his stupid suits and they would have done the job.
Actually through a lot of the first half of the movie I was thinking man this is just like MGS. especially the tanker stuff.
Not exactly sure what you are on about. The point was not that Bucky was having moral dilemmas. He was basically a blank slate assassin believing he was doing the right mission. Everything is the mission. Cap was the one guy who was his bff and seeing him and talking to him started to bring back flashes of his memories and old self. So he was questioning who he was. By the end he was basically trying to discover who he is and his purpose now that hydra is "gone". The post ending scene he is actually reading about himself and trying to verify if what Cap said is true.
Character growth doesn't mean Super evil > Good guy now. Its pretty obvious that this guy is going to be in future captain movies and this was basically he start of his journey. And now cap america has a purpose too. In the movie he kept saying everything from his old life is gone. He doesn't know what to live for but now he found his best friend is alive and he wants to redeem him.
But it really shows the problem with the marvel universe bullshit. Like by the end of the movie all i am thinking is. This shit is going down and these weaklings are fighting it out for no reason at all. Thor, Iron Man, Hulk and come and bust that shit up in like 2 minutes. Hydra aint shit. Like it doesn't even make sense shield is breaking down millions gonna die and this guy doesn't even bother asking Iron Man, Thor or Hulk?
Yeah I'm sure many will give some bs excuse like "oh they busy doing other shit" yeah like iron man or thor can't take 5 mins to come and destroy the ships in like 10 minutes and leave. Hell iron man could have sent his stupid suits and they would have done the job.
Actually through a lot of the first half of the movie I was thinking man this is just like MGS. especially the tanker stuff.
Not exactly sure what you are on about. The point was not that Bucky was having moral dilemmas. He was basically a blank slate assassin believing he was doing the right mission. Everything is the mission. Cap was the one guy who was his bff and seeing him and talking to him started to bring back flashes of his memories and old self. So he was questioning who he was. By the end he was basically trying to discover who he is and his purpose now that hydra is "gone". The post ending scene he is actually reading about himself and trying to verify if what Cap said is true.
Character growth doesn't mean Super evil > Good guy now. Its pretty obvious that this guy is going to be in future captain movies and this was basically he start of his journey. And now cap america has a purpose too. In the movie he kept saying everything from his old life is gone. He doesn't know what to live for but now he found his best friend is alive and he wants to redeem him.
Oh god I thought I was the only one who felt this. Mega MGS2 tanker vibes ^_^
Alcoremortis
Member
This movie wasn't even a "doing other shit" thing. Tony doesn't have any suits (in IM3, he didn't only destroy them, but swore off building more). Nobody really knows where Thor is. Banner is under such heavy surveillance by SHIELD/HYDRA that trying to contact him would be tantamount to suicide in this situation. Hell, Tony was probably under surveillance as well.
How would he contact Tony, or Hulk? By phone? It's pretty clear that call would be traced and they'd have another missile fired right at them like with Zola. And does he even know Thor is back on earth? Even Banner who is a super careful genius couldn't go undetected by S.H.I.E.L.D.
What does that even mean though. like yeah there can be a billion random excuses for why they are missing but my point is that now every plot has to conveniently somehow take out those real strong super heroes so the other weaklings have something to do. For me its the same thing in comics you got a thousand super human beings and then a few regular guys trying to make it in the same world.
Also not sure how calling banner would be suicide they are already after captain america. Black widow was able to infiltrate the building to the top and they couldn't get stark or banner? All they had to do was get banner and basically hulk smash from there.
Umm the same way they contacted Cap and Black widow? And the hulk doesn't need to go undetected anywhere.
Alcoremortis
Member
I'm saying that Captain frickin' America had his house so bugged that the only way Nick Fury "THE SPY" could figure out how to communicate unheard was with a cell phone displaying text.
I'm going to bet that they had far more extensive surveillance measures in place for the guy who could easily rip New York apart with his bare hands. Like, agents in the building, ready to tranq him the moment anything looked suspicious. No way Fury was going to just trust Banner would never flip out again.
And the issue wouldn't be so much whether they're already after Cap. It's more that the one thing that was saving Cap and Widow was that SHIELD didn't know where they were. That was their main advantage. Sure, maybe they could have abandoned stealth, maybe there wasn't the tranq guys like I was guessing, maybe they somehow would manage to get him involved. But if they had given away their position like that, SHIELD would just take them out. Probably wouldn't hurt Hulk any, but that's little consolation when you're dead.
Well i think we can go in circles coming up with stupid scenarios ourselves cause none of it was in the movie. So i don't think we will agree on this.
But my main point is not even the story bit. Its just the fact that knowing all these super powerful people are in the same world just chilling makes anything less than world shattering stuff seem not that important.
Alcoremortis
Member
Well, it's a comic book universe. I mean, in the comics there are waaaay more superheroes and they don't always deal with world-shattering things or band up with other heroes. Granted, there's a bit more interaction between them, but that's difficult to do with big name actors.
Honestly, I think Phase 3 will have much better reasons for not everyone showing up for every event. Partly because of the new characters introduced who wouldn't know anyone else and partly because I have this sneaking suspicion that the Avengers are going to totally hate each other by the end of Avengers 2 and just refuse to communicate out of spite.
Actually, it was explained clearly in the movie:
"You're the only guy I know who isn't on SHIELD's radar."
He didn't even trust BW in the beginning.
Pop
Member
Nick Fury didn't even trust BW.
Well she's Black Widow, i'd not trust her either heh. And after seeing the movie again last night, I come to believe Captain America made the wrong choice in letting out all of SHIELDS secrets.
He was working on some old time, WW2 era morality and naivete where he assumes that the people will want to know/understand. But he basically just ensured no one in SHIELD will ever have a normal life, and all the super powered beings will now be hunted most likely, or at the most can be hunted.
Thor's GF, now people know she's just some normal human working at some random observatory. What about his enemies? and now because of Captain America she's also in danger.
Again only SHIELD knew where Banner was, and now then entire world knows not only WHO he is, but where he is. The same with all the crazy, super powered criminals in the Fridge. Who's watching them now with SHIELD gone? And more importantly, a lot of SHIELD'S enemies definitely know where all these people are now and why would they not free them?
Seems like he just made things a lot worse by just "tearing it all down" instead of doing a surgical strike and removing all the HYDRA agents from the inside. this should have huge repercussions on everyone in the MCU.
He was working on some old time, WW2 era morality and naivete where he assumes that the people will want to know/understand. But he basically just ensured no one in SHIELD will ever have a normal life, and all the super powered beings will now be hunted most likely, or at the most can be hunted.
Thor's GF, now people know she's just some normal human working at some random observatory. What about his enemies? and now because of Captain America she's also in danger.
Again only SHIELD knew where Banner was, and now then entire world knows not only WHO he is, but where he is. The same with all the crazy, super powered criminals in the Fridge. Who's watching them now with SHIELD gone? And more importantly, a lot of SHIELD'S enemies definitely know where all these people are now and why would they not free them?
Seems like he just made things a lot worse by just "tearing it all down" instead of doing a surgical strike and removing all the HYDRA agents from the inside. this should have huge repercussions on everyone in the MCU.
I don't know why people keep assuming this. Tony still has suits.
Tony tells a Pepper in IM3 that he's going to "shave down" his distractions. The distractions being his obsession with building suits for every situation.
The "clean slate protocol" destroyed those distractions/cocoon (as Tony put it).
Iron Man 3 said:
I think Tony destroyed those suits (no longer compatible since he removed the arc reactor from his chest) and rebuilds from the ground up. Only having a couple on deck like before.
Somewhat off-topic but I just wanted to throw that out there.
Jables Swan
Member
Nice little touch with Fury's tombstone. Enjoyable movie.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
That scene will probably go down in history as my favourite bro-moment of all time.
"I'm with you to the end of the line."
Manly tears were shed. They absolutely nailed the Steve and Bucky dynamic in this movie.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I love the way he winds up a couple of times to punch him again after the "YOU! ARE! MY! MISSION!" but can't bring himself to do it
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I'll be honest, my girlfriend almost teared up at that scene. It was done very well. She is loving this whole Marvel thing, man am I glad, LOL.
How do so many people misunderstand this? The arc reactor in his chest hasn't been necessary to run his suits since Iron Man 2. How do you think Rhodey flew off with the Mark II? All those suits flying around in Iron Man 3 had their own arc reactors and had nothing to do with the arc reactor in Tony's chest. How else could they be flying around?
chickdigger802
Banned
kinda odd that Capt didn't really have any plan or anything to take down or rescue bucky.
i mean he kinda was getting outmatched a bit for most of the movie. he should have loaded up on those shocker stickers black widow got.
i was thinking they would load up on gadgets from the 'Q' of shield, but 'trust no one'.
I do like how every phase 2 movie has to mention 'what happen in NY' at least once. Yet I don't think any phase 1 movie mention how hulk and abomination teared down NY.
i mean he kinda was getting outmatched a bit for most of the movie. he should have loaded up on those shocker stickers black widow got.
i was thinking they would load up on gadgets from the 'Q' of shield, but 'trust no one'.
I do like how every phase 2 movie has to mention 'what happen in NY' at least once. Yet I don't think any phase 1 movie mention how hulk and abomination teared down NY.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Banner says in Avengers that last time he was in New York he "kinda broke Harlem."
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
HAHA the moment huh? Would that be before or after they said a single syllable to each other? If they had ended the first movie differently you would've see the real plot twist between them, many people probably googled the title after it was announced and read the general plot synopsis and story of the Brubaker run.
...Everyone knew it was bucky when they announced this movie 2 years ago a quick google search and theres the general plot point. Just like if they announce Demon in a bottle for Iron Man...or Ragnarok for Thor, a quick search will provide the overall synopsis they are working with.
I went ahead and preordered the Golden Age Capt America 1/6 scale figure from Hot Toys, but it's already Wait Listed. 
Nah. Definitely not "extremely strong", if there is any at a. It's only there if you want it to be there.
Nah. Definitely not "extremely strong", if there is any at a. It's only there if you want it to be there.
I saw First Avenger again last night and it's such a great watch after having seen Winter Soldier.
Okay, Bucky being experimented on, we all saw where that was going. But the very best groundwork the movie does? Zola being yelled at by Red Skull for not being able to stop the allies. Zola responds, "This isn't my area of expertise." There's a pause between the two of them. Next scene is the allies having info that Zola is arbitrarily on a train. He gets caught. It was the plan all along. Whole new appreciation for the film that I already loved.
Okay, Bucky being experimented on, we all saw where that was going. But the very best groundwork the movie does? Zola being yelled at by Red Skull for not being able to stop the allies. Zola responds, "This isn't my area of expertise." There's a pause between the two of them. Next scene is the allies having info that Zola is arbitrarily on a train. He gets caught. It was the plan all along. Whole new appreciation for the film that I already loved.