Saw it last night and hot damn was that a good movie. My favorite part though was Zola going through the list of people Hydra wanted to kill off and he mentioned "Stephen Strange". I swear like 3 rows of people all started going, "WHOA WHOA WHAT THE FUCK!?" I can't wait for Phase 3.
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Captain America: The Winter Soldier SPOILER THREAD | ...does anyone want to get out?
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Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Boy I really REALLY hated CG Peggy. All I could do was stare at her grotesque computer mouth any time she said anything. It's not like it even LOOKED like Peggy whatsoever, I have no idea why any of the CG was necessary. Just get some actual old woman to play the role!
Vincent Alexander
Member
I would've loved this moment if it didn't have a callback to a flashback scene we'd seen very recently. It felt forced and the line about "to the end" made me cringe.
It'd be funny if they made every movie have a deleted scene doing this very thing as a joke to the whiners.
MeBecomingI
Member
Just saw it last night. It was really, really great. Probably my favourite of the Marvel movies thus far. It was especially refreshing to see Cap kick some serious ass. There wasn't enough of Cap being a bad-ass in Avengers and it felt like they didn't know what to do with him or how to use him properly, especially being next to Thor, Iron Man (who these films have really overpowered) and Hulk. Yet in this film, you can tell they just let loose and let Cap do some incredible things. I especially like him just effortlessly taking down the fighter jet on bridge or easily taking out 10 other guys on the elevator. There are so many just great Cap moments. It just felt right and I feel satisfied.
I also felt this was one of the stronger Marvel films in terms of acting. I really enjoyed what Evans was doing and you can tell he just loves the role. It was paced really well and well directed. The Russo's did a really, really good job.
And they actually pulled off Falcon well. I was concerned, but it worked.
I definitely want to see it again.
I also felt this was one of the stronger Marvel films in terms of acting. I really enjoyed what Evans was doing and you can tell he just loves the role. It was paced really well and well directed. The Russo's did a really, really good job.
And they actually pulled off Falcon well. I was concerned, but it worked.
I definitely want to see it again.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I know Evans wants to move into directing, but I hope he keeps coming back as Cap in future Marvel flicks. He just owns the role.
Looked like a bad make up job, I agree, just get an older woman to play the role.
I liked Duckroll's idea of how to deal with it:
I'm sure there's tons of wacky schemes our heroes can get into that prevents them from showing up in each others movies.
Hire me Marvel.
Skiptastic
Member
Or, you know, make it a story where the things that happen only impact the main character and not every hero on that contact list. You're in a "Marvel Universe" now. When you have events that affect the universe, you're begging for questions like that to come up.
If DC ever got around to doing a Justice League movie, I wouldn't expect Batman movies after that to have Bats calling up Superman for help if he's fighting the Joker. But if Batman was in a time crunch and the ramifications would be something like a giant weapon destroying Metropolis (or, on a smaller scale, killing Lois Lane), I'd like to know why Bruce feels like he doesn't need to reach out for assistance or even give Clark the heads up. I feel like that's something that shouldn't need to be inferred by the audience. And if it is to be inferred, then it is open for discussion, which is what I'm doing.
Someone brought it up earlier about suspending your disbelief. You don't claim "suspend your disbelief" because a character doesn't think to do something that a logical person might do. Suspending your disbelief is how I accept a normal guy with mechanical wings can fly around a warship and not get hit by any of the bullets. Someone not calling a guy that can help should probably be explained.
Does it ruin the movie? No. Is it a small thing? Yes. I'm not saying "OMG THIS MOVIE IS BULLSHIT" because of a little thing like that, that would be ridiculous. I'm just as done as you are talking about it. But I don't feel like it's invalid to bring it up for discussion.
You dont really read comics, don you? Yes, there are team-ups, but the charachters have most time adventures on their own. I cant understand why it should be needed, that they always call someone else or explain why the hero has to be a hero on his own.
Superheroe comics are most stupid, when they bring something up, why hero or team xyz cant help out this time.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
What line was that? I didn't notice it.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
It was just hard to see them as a threat when you know as soon as it started if Cap failed Iron Man and the Hull could come in and wreck all the shit.
Agreed. Marvel should just do a tongue-in-cheek "meanwhile..." with the other heroes at the beginning of every movie. Perhaps having Stark freak-out having accidentally pissed off Potts (because who cares about a world needing saving when your significant other is oh-so-angry), or have Banner meditating (i.e. completely disconnected from everything), and have Thor being off in Asgard doing whatever Thor does.
There you go, questions about where the heck the other Avengers are... are assuaged.
There you go, questions about where the heck the other Avengers are... are assuaged.
One thing I really liked about this movie was the look of the military hardware.
I remember it popped up during the Avengers that since the authority behind SHIELD was multinational they couldn't use US military hardware or consulting. Forced them to come up with weird futuristic designs. It really sets the movie(s) apart from Bay shitfests or Man of Steel (a movie I adore).
Since I don't recall that being in issue in Iron Man, Thor or the first Cap I'm guessing that restriction only applies when SHIELD is involved?
And yes this movie was Metal Gear as shit. From the boat drop, to the creepy AI,
Lastly. Could this movie finally, thankfully mark the death of the forced shitty "humor" in the MCU?
I remember it popped up during the Avengers that since the authority behind SHIELD was multinational they couldn't use US military hardware or consulting. Forced them to come up with weird futuristic designs. It really sets the movie(s) apart from Bay shitfests or Man of Steel (a movie I adore).
Since I don't recall that being in issue in Iron Man, Thor or the first Cap I'm guessing that restriction only applies when SHIELD is involved?
And yes this movie was Metal Gear as shit. From the boat drop, to the creepy AI,
Lastly. Could this movie finally, thankfully mark the death of the forced shitty "humor" in the MCU?
Cap being on the run and trying to uncover a conspiracy isn't a universe-level threat, though. Nor is it something that would benefit from having, say, Thor or the Hulk involved.
No, it's about a year or so after IM3.
No, it wasnt. Because everybody was aware, that this wasnt Avengers 2.
There was no line, nor did there need to be. I was making a joke.
p sure this movie doesnt take place during christmas
Callibretto
Member
I have no problem with humor, but at the very least, can they at least stop the misdirection in the trailers and promo material. both IronMan 3 and Thor Dark World look like it had serious darker tone from the trailer, and both turned out very differently. I still enjoy them, but it's not what I expect.
Skiptastic
Member
I read mostly X-Men and Spiderman back in the day (early 90s). So yes, I understand not everything needs to be a team up. Even from a cinematic approach, I understand that the Avengers movies are the rare occasions where they all work together as a team.
I can understand that Captain America isn't going to have Iron Man help him out. But if they don't want me asking about him, don't name drop him. Don't bring up the fact that Nick Fury can get him to Robert Redford's birthday party. Don't have Tony Stark be one of the people the helicarriers are going to kill. Don't mention that Tony Stark had some suggestions on how to upgrade the helicarriers. Don't bring them into the discussion and then ignore them when it would be a good time to get them involved.
This is absolutely true, and it brings up something I want to clarify: I'm not asking for Iron Man to be the first call Cap makes in the movie. But when it has become clear that Hydra is involved, the helicarriers are there to murder millions of people (including one of the people who they might call), they need to get three chips on three different helicarriers within two or three hours, AND they have a living Nick Fury at their disposal? THAT is when I might make the call Tony Stark. That seems like it reaches universe level threat (or at least Avenger level threat, given that it would kill Stark). I wouldn't call Hulk because he crazy and the ships probably wouldn't kill him anyway. And I wouldn't call Thor because Asgardians don't have cell phones. But Tony Stark seems like a relatively safe bet.
PS. Hail Hydra meme is gold.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Where is the problem with mentioning him? They can mention him all the time, this is no reason to let him appear.
In the comicbooks, other heroes are mentioned all the time. And then they dont need to appear, too.
Sorry, thats the stupidest thing I ever hear from someone complaining about a superhero movie.
I'm pretty sure that's no meme, it's real.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is the best feeling in the world. My wife LOVES it too and it helps knowing that she knows that feel when you want to see a mid night showing.
Skiptastic
Member
Because he could die if Captain America isn't successful? And he could possibly help Cap out? And he's been talked about over and over again in the movie?
I'm not saying the he should have appeared. Let me repeat: I'm not saying the he should have appeared. But if you are name dropping him and having him be at risk of dying, you should probably explain why you aren't calling him to help out. It can be the most frivolous of reasons ("He ate bad sharma and is in the john") but at least throw out a courtesy that, yes, you thought of contacting him.
Okay, so he's busy. Too busy not to help avoid getting killed (or at least attacked) by helicarriers?
I don't understand the argument in general (name dropping in these films seems sensible) but the bolded part is a bit out of context. Pierce continues this particular sentence by asking Fury that "he doesn't want a mere fly by, but he should mingle with the guests at the party." This kinda implies that Tony is very busy with whatever he's working on.
And seeing the quick shot of Avengers Tower in Cap 2, I'd say he's working franticly on his next project there. Doesn't have time for anything else or media stints.
Ok somebody explain to me.
What was Hydra's goal. What is their ideology. What is their endgame?
...why does killing those carriers matter at all if that precog panopticon is still in play?
What the fuck was Black Widow trying to accomplish by blowing the cover of whatever ten thousand under cover agents SHIELD had worldwide?
Boy can make time for bringing down a goddamn precog panopticon that's pointing a gun at his own head.
What was Hydra's goal. What is their ideology. What is their endgame?
...why does killing those carriers matter at all if that precog panopticon is still in play?
What the fuck was Black Widow trying to accomplish by blowing the cover of whatever ten thousand under cover agents SHIELD had worldwide?
Boy can make time for bringing down a goddamn precog panopticon that's pointing a gun at his own head.
Christopher
Member
then stop arguing? This movie is called Captain America, not the Avengers.
Yes.
Skiptastic
Member
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Random Theory: Avengers 2 will feature a post-credits scene where Scarlet Witch goes to Marvel's greatest expert on the occult to train her, Steven Strange
To stupid that the whole plot of the movie was about survilance. It would be pretty stupid to call Tony when he is surviled and Steve is hunted by SHIELD. Its so obivious, the movie doenst even have to show it.
He just needs it spelled out. Nothing about the "underground conspiracy", SHIELD being compromised and all of them probably being monitored by Hydra too, small period of time where the events occur, "don't trust anyone" deal, nothing about that could be interpreted as why they weren't called.
Nope, he needs to actually see Cap pick up the fucking phone, then the sound of a busy line and Cap going "well, I tried" or Widow saying "it must be Hydra blocking the call", or Falcon saying, "I think you shouldn't be calling them or, you know, maybe Hydra will trace the call, or move on them or us" for it to be believable.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
One goal Hydra had was control. They honestly seem to believe that with the proper control humans would have true freedome.
Total control of America. Getting rid of all potential threats who could stop their plans. Money. Power.
A lot of the "good SHIELD agents" will suffer from the info leak, but said info leak also contained important information about the reborn Hydra within SHIELD. Von Strucker mentions in the midcredits scene that with all the info out in the open, it will mean their secret bases will be uncovered soon enough. Hydra as a secret organization within SHIELD is done.
Yeah I thought Zola pretty much monologued their full plan. BW blowing Shield's cover effectively blows Hydra's as well. With the infiltration that deep and wide, tearing down the whole thing was the only option.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Hydra's goal was to remove freedom from the people willingly by infiltrating SHIELD and then sniping all threats based off there information on the internet. BW had to dismantle SHIELD to expose all the HYDRA agents present.
Her role was great.
The movies subtitle should have been Black Widow with her increased role.
This is part of what makes this film not really work with me and why I simply think it was okay/good and can't bring myself to get super excited about it or praise. Also why I think I need to see it a second time to make sure I actually came away from it with the right understanding of what happen. How they got to the end point they did in this film is bothering me when I sit down and think about it. Especially since there is going to be no follow up to this until maybe the Avengers 2 or Cap 3. I do not expect Agents of Shield to address this to a satisfying degree at all.
What is the fallout of what Black Widow and Fury did? Why wasn't that better addressed even if it wasn't going to be fully answered? Will Marvel actually be willing to properly follow that up given the magnitude of what was done? This is different from IM taking down a terrorist or Thor leaving a part of London destroy.
Then again I thought they'd properly deal with there being an actual alien invasion that took place in New York City (watched that again and before Cap's talk about containing things to a few blocks there is a large section of Manhatten on fire when it comes to the wide camera shots) but it seemed to be glossed over in IM3, Thor2, and Cap 2. No major follow up to that other then Tony's issues with sleeping after almost dying. So maybe they won't even deal that TONs of covert data was just reveal to the world unedited. That type of crap should send the world spiraling out of control. We know what that type of thing could in real life and what was done in Cap 2 is off the charts by comparison.
So obvious. So so so very obvious. What does it matter he's "surviled"? "Hey Tony shit is fucked" "Ok, Cap" and now he's wearing an Iron Man suit before SHIELD/Hydra can even power up the servos on the missile to point it at his house. Stark Tower doesn't have point defense systems? Iron Man all suited up doesn't give two shits about missiles.
The only reason to avoid contacting him is if you think he's in on it. That would've been cleaner. Have Winter Soldier and his goons carry weapon marked with Stark Industries or something. "I thought he was done making weapons!" "Maybe we don't know Tony Stark very well at all...".
The script was bad.
Black-Wind
Member
Pretty much this.
Also something to take note of is the fact that these movies are happening in a VERY tight time frame. IM3 happened over the course of a few days and so did Cap 2. Hell, most of Thor 2 wasn't even on earth and the final battle was very fast and sudden. Marvel's actually doing a great job at showing why everyone doesn't just "Call up Tony". In Cap 2 they had their own lil crew of people able and willing to do what they had to to get the job done ... no need to call up Tony at the climax and wait for how ever long it's gonna take him to get there just to help with the chip plug ins. At a certain point it doesn't seem too practical to rely on outside help on time sensitive matters that could be within your range of doing.
Uhhh, wut? The whole thing about these things was that they were god's hand level killing machines that float in the sky and would kill millions without warning. If Tony's not in his suit when that thing fires he would be dead before he knew there was a threat to be had. In his armor? He would likely not be able to do much to ships given their fire power before they ultimately over power him. And this movie's Hulk's limits haven't been set yet ... it could very well be that if Banner is suddenly obliterated with a hellstorm of missiles and bullets out of the blue that there's no Hulking out, just death. "But he tried to kill himself" yeah, with a predetermined act of violence that he knew was coming.
CrichtonKicks
Member
SHIELD was compromised by Hydra down to it's foundations. It wasn't a few moles here or there, it was a widespread epidemic that completely compromised the entire organization and calls into question everything that SHIELD had achieved in 50 or so years.
So instead of trusting a government (that had also been compromised) into investigating the issue and likely covering up as much as possible they decided to put it all out into the public domain before the cover-up could start.
Right, I did see the movie and hear them say all this. But what constitutes a "threat to snipe"? What were their criteria? Were they trying to kill people with influence who might oppose them, leaving behind only the sheeple?
But if the goal of that is so they can be rich and powerful and evil unopposed, this is the most classic Dumbshit Badguy: in order to pull off infiltrating a worldwide espionage/
Those ships had a catastrophic vulnerability encased in a glass dome on their underside and a demonstrated inability to land a single hit on a man-sized target flying around them at close range. And Iron Man is equipped with Plot Armor. He would've done alright for himself.