Carts vs Virtual Console

Neo CD is pretty crap, though. The slow access times really slow down just about all games and the units themselves are not reliable.

I dunno about reliability yet since i've only had mine (a top loader) for a month, but the load times dont seem that bad. Note I only have Fatal Fury 3, Last Resort, and Magician Lord...but they seem to get faster after you've loaded a game once.

I've heard KOF has bad load times, but from what i've seen from other games, its not really a deal breaker.


EDIT: Pulstar has those intro scene load times that kind of knock you out of your shoot em up groove though.
 
You're actually right. An emulator "tailored for a specific game" is just a nice sounding way of saying that your emulator is a fucking mess and you need all kinds of game-specific patches and hacks to make a game work on it, which usually breaks compatibility with other games.

Maybe they're doing it for the speed (hacks are much faster than accurately emulating old hardware), maybe they're doing it for cost (as it's hard to accurately emulate old hardware through software alone), but your statement is correct.

Everybody should read this BSNes story , which is not as complete as some others, but I can't be bothered to look for them. It's eye opening.
I imagine it's partially to do with hardware specs too. bsnes is really demanding even on modern PCs. Game specific hacks are probably necessary to get emulated SNES games running on Wii in presentable form.
 
I prefer cart over VC. In fact every time I want to play a old game, I simply hook up my old console on a CRT and there you go, 100% authentic experience. You just cannot beat that, unless you travel or something.
 
I imagine it's partially to do with hardware specs too. bsnes is really demanding even on modern PCs. Game specific hacks are probably necessary to get emulated SNES games running on Wii in presentable form.

I edited my other message, but since it's the last message on a page, it's left to die.

So I'll just repost the edited version here.. :D

I dunno man... I've never been as happy with PC emulation as I have with Nintendo's Virtual Console stuff.
That's because you're only presented with working builds and compatible software to specific games. When content is all curated, you'll always be happy with what is presented to you. However, if the content you specifically want is not supported 100%, it won't be released.

BSNes is 100% compatible with everything. Every single SNes software works on it, perfectly, even the extra chips. It's the only emulator that's like that and you need a faster-than-usual computer to use it. It probably wouldn't run smoothly on a Nintendo Wii. Now, if you want to play Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, you don't really need the most accurate emulator in the universe. As long as the emulator you're using plays that, it's good for you.

I'm not saying game-specific emulators are bad: They serve a very valid purpose. But if the discussions is "which emulator is better", the "Virtual Console" emulator, taking into consideration that it only runs specific games and needs different builds to run different games, is not a very good one.
 
There are merits to both.

If you have the room and the income, the physical carts and systems are definitely the way to go. Along with a nice, large CRT TV. Games in their native resolution with the original controller is my preferred way to play. Of course, Virtual Console is a perfectly viable alternative if you want to save space and money. It also may just be perception, but I always felt that VC/emulation in general felt somewhat off with their timing and general gameplay. I can never place my finger on it, but it's something that is always in my mind while playing emulation.

I have a room filled with:
32" Sony Trinitron
3DO
32X/SegaCD/Genesis
Super Nintendo(s)
N64
NES
TG-16+CD
Saturn
Dreamcast
Master System II
SuperGrafix
Neo Geo AES
Laseractive + Sega PAC + NEC PAC
... List goes on.

Again, if you have the income and space, it's great to play these games in their native resolution on the original hardware. Personally, I also love my shelves filled with tons of old games. Being a collector does play into my preference somewhat too, however.
 
The MAME HLSL filter does this. You can adjust pretty much everything, including phosphor life.

I linked it to you in that thread about 16-bit games but I dunno if you saw it.

e: here


Quality post.
It does actually look pretty great, but it still isn't quite perfect. The main issue is simply that it's still limited by flaws of an LCD (which most people would be using). No matter what kind of filter you use, you're still limited by the LCD technology itself.
 
It does actually look pretty great, but it still isn't quite perfect. The main issue is simply that it's still limited by flaws of an LCD (which most people would be using). No matter what kind of filter you use, you're still limited by the LCD technology itself.
But I use it on my plasma!

I edited my other message, but since it's the last message on a page, it's left to die.

So I'll just repost the edited version here.. :D


That's because you're only presented with working builds and compatible software to specific games. When content is all curated, you'll always be happy with what is presented to you. However, if the content you specifically want is not supported 100%, it won't be released.

BSNes is 100% compatible with everything. Every single SNes software works on it, perfectly, even the extra chips. It's the only emulator that's like that and you need a faster-than-usual computer to use it. It probably wouldn't run smoothly on a Nintendo Wii. Now, if you want to play Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, you don't really need the most accurate emulator in the universe. As long as the emulator you're using plays that, it's good for you.

I'm not saying game-specific emulators are bad: They serve a very valid purpose. But if the discussions is "which emulator is better", the "Virtual Console" emulator, taking into consideration that it only runs specific games and needs different builds to run different games, is not a very good one.
Yeah I missed it, and I agree.
 
I'm not saying game-specific emulators are bad: They serve a very valid purpose. But if the discussions is "which emulator is better", the "Virtual Console" emulator, taking into consideration that it only runs specific games and needs different builds to run different games, is not a very good one.
This whole thing is a moot argument anyway since VC actually just uses one emulator per platform. It's updated obviously (C4 emulation was added recently to SNES for MMX2 for example) but it's one universal emulator per system and they're even useable with homebrew to play basically any SNES, NES, Genesis, etc, rom.

I think the confusion comes because initially Nintendo packed in the emulator with each VC title, but that changed sometime in 2007.

Also the Wii VC correctly emulates the SNES SDD1 chip, which I believe puts it ahead of homebrew efforts (which hacked the roms to unpack data iirc, unless that's changed?). It makes sense Nintendo could achieve higher accuracy with official documentation so this isn't exactly a surprise.
 
I keep seeing earthbound mentioned for not being on VC, but I just want to say that there is a way to play it as a VC title.. it's just not available to purchase which is a shame.
 
This whole thing is a moot argument anyway since VC actually just uses one emulator per platform. It's updated obviously (C4 emulation was added recently to SNES for MMX2 for example) but it's one universal emulator per system and they're even useable with homebrew to play basically any SNES, NES, Genesis, etc, rom.

I think the confusion comes because initially Nintendo packed in the emulator with each VC title, but that changed sometime in 2007.
If that's true, then it became a better emulator. I still doubt it's better than BSnes.

Also the Wii VC correctly emulates the SNES SDD1 chip, which I believe puts it ahead of homebrew efforts (which hacked the roms to unpack data iirc, unless that's changed?). It makes sense Nintendo could achieve higher accuracy with official documentation so this isn't exactly a surprise.

According to BSNes website, "The S-DD1 decompression algorithm was reverse engineered by Andreas Naive". So they used an actual chip and, by feeding it information, figured out what it does. And because of that, it's fully emualted. That's how I understand it anyway. It's a great read: http://byuu.org/articles/emulation/snes-coprocessors It illustrates how the community came together, providing interfaces, the actual chips and money, so the chips were decapped (the DSP ones) and analyzed under a microscope.

Yes, of course Nintendo can achieve better emulation if they so desire, as they have all the specs on the systems they created. I really doubt their emulator is that precise, because not all games will be emulated on the Wii. There's copyright issues that need to be figured out beforehand.

But sure, if they make those deals, I'm sure they could have the best emulator for said platform.
 
Apparently Nintendo's documentation of the SNES is rather poor, or at least that's what people who've seen it told byuu.

Also, yeah, there's copyright issues related to co-processors like the SuperFX and such too.
 
I wonder if one could pay a Sega employee to leak documents for say... the Saturn. Assuming Sega still actually has any of 'em, which they might not considering they've lost the source code for like everything on that system.

The unfortunate thing about VC and all that is that it gives companies an obvious reason to not fork over this kind of stuff... cuz why do that when you can just resell games yourself and make bank?


Apparently Nintendo's documentation of the SNES is rather poor, or at least that's what people who've seen it told byuu.

Also, yeah, there's copyright issues related to co-processors like the SuperFX and such too.

Splitting hairs, but you sure those aren't patent issues? If we're going by 17 USC 102 definitions, the SuperFX chip wouldn't be a literary work, it'd be a method of operation... and because the SuperFX chip, itself, doesn't have anything to do with copyright protection, it's not going to be protected under the DMCA, either.


The upside to patent law is that it's a lot less strict in practice. Copyright law is a bitch.
 
Splitting hairs, but you sure those aren't patent issues. If we're going by 17 USC 102 definitions, the SuperFX chip wouldn't be a literary work, it'd be a method of operation... and I don't think it has anything to do with copyright protection, so it's not going to be protected under the DMCA, either.
same thing man

(you're right)
 
If that's true, then it became a better emulator. I still doubt it's better than BSnes.
I don't see any real reason to doubt though. Every SNES game on VC is emulated flawlessly, what exactly is your doubt based on? If anything I'd defer to giving Nintendo the benefit of the doubt here given engineering familiarity and official documentation.


According to BSNes website, "The S-DD1 decompression algorithm was reverse engineered by Andreas Naive". So they used an actual chip and, by feeding it information, figured out what it does. And because of that, it's fully emualted. That's how I understand it anyway. It's a great read: http://byuu.org/articles/emulation/snes-coprocessors It illustrates how the community came together, providing interfaces, the actual chips and money, so the chips were decapped (the DSP ones) and analyzed under a microscope.

Yes, of course Nintendo can achieve better emulation if they so desire, as they have all the specs on the systems they created. I really doubt their emulator is that precise, because not all games will be emulated on the Wii. There's copyright issues that need to be figured out beforehand.

But sure, if they make those deals, I'm sure they could have the best emulator for said platform.
Oh, good news about SDD1 then. I haven't really delved into homebrew emulation since the early 2000s and last I remembered was using the DeJap hack for fiddling with Star Ocean.

As for copyright, I've long suspected it may be what's really preventing Super FX/2 chip stuff since Argonaut evidently held some rights over the technology and who knows where said rights ended up. This could be an issue for some 3rd party NES MMC chips too possibly, though if Nintendo's already licensing the game from a 3rd party anyway it's probably not a real roadblock. 3rd party platforms are a non-issue for Nintendo though since 3rd party platform holders (Sega, D4, Konami, Commodore, etc) handle that themselves.
 
I just wish the VC had more N64 titles. The lack of choices is ridiculous and the absence of any N64 Rareware titles hurts a lot, even if i understand why they're not available. :( They could at least put DK64 or even Diddy Kong Racing no? Who cares if Banjo and Conker are in the game... oh right, Microsoft. :(
 
I don't see any real reason to doubt though. Every SNES game on VC is emulated flawlessly, what exactly is your doubt based on? If anything I'd defer to giving Nintendo the benefit of the doubt here given engineering familiarity and official documentation.

FWIW, I remember hearing about a couple minor graphical glitches in games like Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country, and I've heard that sound quality kinda took a hit vs. a real SNES. Haven't verified any of it myself, but yeah.
 
Is Jet Force Gemini or DOOM 64 on the VC? Also I wish Earthbound wasnt so ridiculously expensive. I could see myself maybe paying 40-50 to own a decent copy with the manual again...but some of these prices are just insane.
 
I like to collect the carts, but for actually sitting down to play the game, VC's modern amenities win out. IT's just easier to have everything in one place, plus Nintendo somehow managed to make 8/16-Bit systems look fantastic on a plasma screen in a way that hooking up the original system can never match.
 
I like to collect the carts, but for actually sitting down to play the game, VC's modern amenities win out. IT's just easier to have everything in one place, plus Nintendo somehow managed to make 8/16-Bit systems look fantastic on a plasma screen in a way that hooking up the original system can never match.

An original system can better it... doesn't even matter what display you're using.
 
I've only made the complete switch (selling the carts I own due to availability on VC) with my SNES, surprisingly, since it's my all time fav console. I think it's because all the games I owned were ones people bought at a high price.

I do however still have my SNES along with my prized complete copy of Earthbound. Not gonna risk assuming that will ever be released again.

Genesis I have like a hundred carts for still. It wouldn't be worth rebuying all those at however much a pop just for convenience sake. Same with NES but it's a top loader and my roommates like playing it. As for N64, the games I have for that are all party games and most of my friends wouldn't care to experience those on wiimotes. I don't know.
 
I just wish the VC had more N64 titles. The lack of choices is ridiculous and the absence of any N64 Rareware titles hurts a lot, even if i understand why they're not available. :( They could at least put DK64 or even Diddy Kong Racing no? Who cares if Banjo and Conker are in the game... oh right, Microsoft. :(
DK64 would also require Jetpac being removed, though I think the bigger issue is that the game used microcode, and we haven't seen any microcode N64 stuff yet. Probably also what's holding back Excitebike 64.
 
I don't see any real reason to doubt though. Every SNES game on VC is emulated flawlessly, what exactly is your doubt based on? If anything I'd defer to giving Nintendo the benefit of the doubt here given engineering familiarity and official documentation.
It's not that I doubt it, it's just that I literally don't care enough to look up the specifics. I'm willing to bet it's better than any other homebrew snes emulator available for the Wii.

I just think it's not worth it for Nintendo, or possible for that matter, to make a 100% perfect SNes emulator on the Wii, like BSnes is on computers. There's no reason to. I just dislike the "SNES VC IS TEH BEST SNES EMULATOR OH GOD" statements that happen from time to time, mostly because of lack of knowledge on the subject.

I still rather emulate my stuff to play it: Everything is available easily on one place, just like I rather sign up for Netflix than buying discs (be either blurays or dvds) for movies. However, there's nothing like having a complete boxed copy of your favorite game. I have a couple - I just don't play them, I play the emulated version.
 
I edited my other message, but since it's the last message on a page, it's left to die.

So I'll just repost the edited version here.. :D


That's because you're only presented with working builds and compatible software to specific games. When content is all curated, you'll always be happy with what is presented to you. However, if the content you specifically want is not supported 100%, it won't be released.

BSNes is 100% compatible with everything. Every single SNes software works on it, perfectly, even the extra chips. It's the only emulator that's like that and you need a faster-than-usual computer to use it. It probably wouldn't run smoothly on a Nintendo Wii. Now, if you want to play Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, you don't really need the most accurate emulator in the universe. As long as the emulator you're using plays that, it's good for you.

I'm not saying game-specific emulators are bad: They serve a very valid purpose. But if the discussions is "which emulator is better", the "Virtual Console" emulator, taking into consideration that it only runs specific games and needs different builds to run different games, is not a very good one.

Word.

In my case:

Bsnes + Retrode w/OG controllers + HDTV = The best thing. The feeling is there and I can still play with them cartridges with games rendered beautifully on my TV. Best of worlds.

Gotta say, if it wasn't of the Retrode, I would still be thinking about selling my collection, but now I'm keeping it, that's for sure.

We don't know when VC will end, when Nintendo will stop everything related to it (I know it won't happen anytime soon, but I'm talking 'in X years'). PC and emulation will keep on going as long as we want.
 
As far as collecting goes I really only collect DC and Wii games. 90% of the games I would want on the VC are there. I did spend a few months building an n64 library since the VC selection is so poor. Everything else I'm content with just having a digital collection. That sexy console thread has opened my eyes to some stunning retro consoles so I might pick up the titles missing from the VC to go with them.
 
Am I the only one who thinks carts could make a comeback next generation? Isn't flash media not only just as large now and cheaper than blank blu-rays (I know a manufacturer wouldn't pay Best Buy blank blu-ray prices).
 
FWIW, I remember hearing about a couple minor graphical glitches in games like Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country, and I've heard that sound quality kinda took a hit vs. a real SNES. Haven't verified any of it myself, but yeah.
There were some issues initially with corrupted downloads for Mario World (dunno about DKC), but that was fixed right away. I've 100%ed SMW on both SNES and VC (and GBA :3), and didn't encounter any issues or flaws in the latter myself.

I've never heard about SNES sound issues, but I have heard M2's Genesis emulator for VC has the most accurate sound emulation of any MD emulator yet.
 
Word.

In my case:

Bsnes + Retrode w/OG controllers + HDTV = The best thing. The feeling is there and I can still play with them cartridges with games rendered beautifully on my TV. Best of worlds.

Gotta say, if it wasn't of the Retrode, I would still be thinking about selling my collection, but now I'm keeping it, that's for sure.

We don't know when VC will end, when Nintendo will stop everything related to it (I know it won't happen anytime soon, but I'm talking 'in X years'). PC and emulation will keep on going as long as we want.

I was pretty damn happy when I found out that the Retrode existed. I remember wishing I'd bought one of those Bung GameDoctor things when I had the chance, but even then, those were horribly outdated technology... But the Retrode is basically everything that was, and more. Kinda kewl you can use your own carts and real controllers with bsnes, should you want to.
 
It's not that I doubt it, it's just that I literally don't care enough to look up the specifics. I'm willing to bet it's better than any other homebrew snes emulator available for the Wii.

I just think it's not worth it for Nintendo, or possible for that matter, to make a 100% perfect SNes emulator on the Wii, like BSnes is on computers. There's no reason to. I just dislike the "SNES VC IS TEH BEST SNES EMULATOR OH GOD" statements that happen from time to time, mostly because of lack of knowledge on the subject.

I still rather emulate my stuff to play it: Everything is available easily on one place, just like I rather sign up for Netflix than buying discs (be either blurays or dvds) for movies. However, there's nothing like having a complete boxed copy of your favorite game. I have a couple - I just don't play them, I play the emulated version.
So you can't be bothered to actually do the research, but you'll spout your unfounded belief anyway since other people's ignorance pisses you off? Seriously? :/
 
So you can't be bothered to actually do the research, but you'll spout your unfounded belief anyway since other people's ignorance pisses you off? Seriously? :/
The Wii simply doesn't have the power to do the low-level emulation and accurate synchronization that bsnes does.

Plus, official documentation doesn't mean anything if that documentation is poor, which it apparently is.
 
It's already been said a billion times but the feeling of having a hard copy of your beloved game in hand as opposed to a digital download (Which are sometimes easy to forget about) is intoxicating. Yea as a psuedo collector (Only going for the stuff you like) can be pretty costly, if you're smart about it, you get deals on the stuff. So glad I don't care for Earthbound...buying that CIB is a killer.

But I have no issues with people who prefer digital downloads. More power to them.
 
I bought a Wii almost solely so I could play Virtual Console games, after looking at the prices I never ended up buying a single Virtual Console game. In fact I only ever bought about 6 Wii games total, and I have not even had that device hooked up to my TV in the last year or so.

I do want to play Skyward Sword and Xenoblade one of these days, but now I feel almost like I should just wait until Wii U comes out, and jump on that VC bandwagon at that point too. I know the VC purchases probably aren't going to transfer over from the Wii, but I'm sure all the games available on the Wii VC will also be available on the WiiU shop as well, right?
 
So you can't be bothered to actually do the research, but you'll spout your unfounded belief anyway since other people's ignorance pisses you off? Seriously? :/

His logic makes sense. It's unrealistic to think that Nintendo would give enough of a damn to put together a perfect emulator, especially when you consider the Wii's hardware restraints and the fact that just about nobody cares.
 
So you can't be bothered to actually do the research, but you'll spout your unfounded belief anyway since other people's ignorance pisses you off? Seriously? :/
No, I can't be bothered to do the research to find out if what has been said (that there's one single instance of code for the SNES emulator used for the entirety of SNES Emulated games on the Wii) is true. If he says it, I'll take it at face value.

Based on the fact that the Wii is not that powerful and the fact that not all SNES games will be released on the Virtual Console service, yes, I doubt that the Oficial SNES emulator for the Virtual Console service on the Wii is the best SNES emulator that exists to date, because I doubt Nintendo would take the time and spend the necessary money to make that a reality, specially since I've followed byuu projects for a couple of years and I've seen what he went through to get the "perfect" emulation of a system and how hard it is.

I'm also saying that, IF what was said earlier (that there's one single instance of code for the SNES emulator used for the entirety of SNES Emulated games on the Wii) is true, and I believe it, the Wii Virtual Console emulator for SNES is better than I anticipated. With that in mind, I doubt it's the "best one" out there, for the reasons explained earlier. However, I do believe that it's the best Wii SNES emulator out there, when compared to homebrew ones.
 
I don't think so. VC NES games at 480p via component cables look amazing. Razor sharp pixels. There's no possible configuration with which to hook up an NES 1 or 2 that looks anywhere near as crisp.

You've gotta use SCART, but it does look considerably better than the Wii over component. No idea what size screen you're using, but it becomes really noticeable as you get to the bigger sizes.
 
But you have to already own the cart and have kept it in good condition or buy it mint which is very expensive.
By rom dump I meant the VC titles. You don't have to buy carts in mint obviously, but condition effects value.

Why can't we transfer digital downloads? I'm not against DD, but it does take away the consumers ability to sell/buy second hand.
 
You've gotta use SCART, but it does look considerably better than the Wii over component. No idea what size screen you're using, but it becomes really noticeable as you get to the bigger sizes.

Wow, no kidding? How does that work, do you have to mod the NES? I'll have to look into this.
 
You've gotta use SCART, but it does look considerably better than the Wii over component. No idea what size screen you're using, but it becomes really noticeable as you get to the bigger sizes.

Though you gotta watch out with SCART, believe me.

I invested a lot of money for specific cables, converter box & component cable...to realize that my HDTV doesn't support 240p, or just doesn't support the signal that results from this clusterfuck of wires.

Le salt. This is one reason why I praise emulation with original carts so much these days.
 
Wow, no kidding? How does that work, do you have to mod the NES? I'll have to look into this.

Dunno about the NES, in particular, but this is a pretty useful resource on the stuff:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/index.html


And this site is all about making actual systems look mothafuckin' P.I.M.P.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/


These sorts of topics are my thang. I'm all about retro gaming, all about videophilia, and I'm a lawyer so I can spit game on copyrights and shyt. Fuck tha police.
 
The Wii simply doesn't have the power to do the low-level emulation and accurate synchronization that bsnes does.

Plus, official documentation doesn't mean anything if that documentation is poor, which it apparently is.
Power is an issue I'll admit, though Wii is a closed platform so resources can be better allocated versus a Windows/Mac program. You can't really look at the BSNES minimums and conclude that's the real hardware minimum at all possible.

As for documentation, you'll have to forgive me not putting much stock into 3rd hand rumors/leaks. Especially when it comes to Nintendo, who tends to run a pretty tight ship and by most accounts are the exception to rule among Japanese devs with archiving. They keep like *everything*, even Miyamoto's graph paper level designs for SMB1.
 
I have this in my house so there is no need for VC for me:

IMG_20120708_155934.jpg
 
His logic makes sense. It's unrealistic to think that Nintendo would give enough of a damn to put together a perfect emulator, especially when you consider the Wii's hardware restraints and the fact that just about nobody cares.
Hardware's one thing, but effort really isn't.

Nintendo definitely cares, the SPD team are real perfectionists and that sort of attention to detail really comes through in both the end product and their commentary (the 3DS eShop Iwata Asks can give you some good insight here). Anyone who says otherwise likely just isn't familiar enough with the company to know better.
 
BSNES *IS* nearly (if not completely) 100% accurate, however. It's a very good emulator. If you couple that with a video card capable of 240p on a CRT you'll produce a perfect duplication of SNES visuals (perhaps even cleaner).

edit: I misread this, so the below doesn't completely apply to your post.

As with pretty much any kind of emulation, you'll still be tasked with making the decision of either not synchronizing the image and putting up with screen tearing or synchronizing the image and adding lag on top of the original hardware's buffering.

BSNES is virtually a perfect recreation of the original hardware, but to actually get the same experience out of it that you would get out of a SNES, you would have to lose accuracy and rework the way the original hardware buffers, essentially substituting the original hardware's delay with that of your modern machine's.

It's the single biggest problem with emulation, and I don't know how we'll get around this in the future. Maybe displays with ludicrous refresh rates?
 
Power is an issue I'll admit, though Wii is a closed platform so resources can be better allocated versus a Windows/Mac program. You can't really look at the BSNES minimums and conclude that's the real hardware minimum at all possible.
Sure, but bsnes is a cleanly written program and it still gives modern quad-core processors a workout. I know there's OS overhead on computers but not enough for bsnes to feasibly ever run on Wii even with extensive optimization!
 
Dunno about the NES, in particular, but this is a pretty useful resource on the stuff:

http://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/index.html


And this site is all about making actual systems look mothafuckin' P.I.M.P.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/


These sorts of topics are my thang. I'm all about retro gaming, all about videophilia, and I'm a lawyer so I can spit game on copyrights and shyt. Fuck tha police.

Awesome! Thanks for posting those, I'll sink my teeth into them later.
 
VC because I don't own any old console, but the catalog is lacking and prices are ridiculous.

Have you seen ebay or been to a classic games store? Majora's Mask is $20 or more there.

OT: I'd rather have the originals, but mostly for nostalgic reasons.
 
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