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[radios shipping overview]

Try Castlevania IV.

Let's try this again.

Treasure. Did. Not. Fucking. Make. Castlevania. IV.

One guy on the staff of CVIV might have later joined Treasure.

http://www.classicgaming.com/sfkosmo/treasure/related/cv4/cv4.html

Read and learn. Fanboy myths need to be eradicated.

Oh, and screw Metroidvania. Let's have a proper action sequel to Rondo of Blood.

 

[kiryogi]

Agree on DMC. Disagree on the N64 games. The second one, which is sort of an expansion/remake of the first one, is pretty good. Have you played it yourself? I don't think many people have.

I imagine LoD was basically what the first was originally meant to be. I recall concepts of C64 having a werewolf and guntoting char. In anycase, it was a great xmas gift way back then

 

[radios shipping overview]

Agree on DMC. Disagree on the N64 games. The second one, which is sort of an expansion/remake of the first one, is pretty good. Have you played it yourself? I don't think many people have.

Indeed, I enjoyed it. It felt like a proper action-based Castlevania brought into 3D, with just the right variety of environments, tricky platforming, and neat bosses. Not nearly as bad as the first CV64's reputation.

 

[Virgin Wii]

about time people got into this discussion and backed the MV CVs! Its astounding that guys can play advanced/evolved versions of a game (while is undeniably better than the source titles) and want to regress back to 16bit gameplay. Time to break them nostalgia glasses.

Undeniably better? How so? Better graphics? Looking at SOTN, sure. Better sound quality? Yeah, SOTN wins in that regard as well (even though the music pales in comparison to Super Castlevania IV). But all that is improving there is technology.

It could be argued that a game like Super IV has better level design, better gameplay, and better challenge than SOTN. It certainly has better bosses than SOTN. If looked at from the perspective of a hardcore action gamer, this could be argued quite easily actually. Because the level design and gameplay in Super IV suits an action game far better than SOTN. The only way for you to win would be to say that adventure games are superior to action games... and we all know how stupid that would be. I hope.

Oh, yes. And I prefer SOTN-ish titles.

 

[kiryogi]

Indeed, I enjoyed it. It felt like a proper action-based Castlevania brought into 3D, with just the right variety of environments, tricky platforming, and neat bosses. Not nearly as bad as the first CV64's reputation.

I think the biggest flaw still was the platforming, or was it the camera? :/

 

[radios shipping overview]

I think the biggest flaw still was the platforming, or was it the camera? :/

Probably the camera and the lock-on system, in my experience. T_T

 

[nightez]

They're better porting Super Casltevania IV with enhanced gfx

 

[Virgin Wii]

The biggest flaw was that sand maze deal... right after the bird lady boss fight on the roofs... never did get past that part. Maybe I get frustrated too easily.

I played the game after hearing all the negative comments. I think the games reputation for horridness is deserved, but it IS better than most people give it credit for. If it spent a few more months in dev time for polish it could have been a lot better. It had good music and some pretty creepy parts to it (when you first get into the castle and meet your first vampire for example). Just needed more polish.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

SOTN is easily the greatest Castlevania game EVAR

 

[kiryogi]

The biggest flaw was that sand maze deal... right after the bird lady boss fight on the roofs... never did get past that part. Maybe I get frustrated too easily.

I played the game after hearing all the negative comments. I think the games reputation for horridness is deserved, but it IS better than most people give it credit for. If it spent a few more months in dev time for polish it could have been a lot better. It had good music and some pretty creepy parts to it (when you first get into the castle and meet your first vampire for example). Just needed more polish.

They basically polished up the first attempt but yeah. In any case, what sand maze are you talking about?

 

[Mejilan]

I'll take another Metroidvania title simply because they, imho, have loads more replay than the more classic titles. However, I would LOVE to see classic elements get intertwined with the Metroidvania style. For example, Aria of Sorrow + Castlevania 2 would be a purely sexual title, imho. Multiple castles (ala Zelda dungeons) linked by an overworld with multiple towns, etc. Just insane potential there. I do not want to see the ARPG elements dropped in favor of some tired (by today's standards) platformer arcade title with 2 hours of life in it. (Though a handheld Classic CV compilation with spruced up graphics and sound would be AWESOME.)

SotN was fantastic, CoM was incredible, HoD was... let's forget about that, and AoS was uber-refined.

I just want to see something new grow off this Metroidvania style rather than see the same gameplay get tweaked and recycled into a new castle.

 

[Virgin Wii]

They basically polished up the first attempt but yeah. In any case, what sand maze are you talking about?

After you beat that flying boss on the roof, you go down into this area where you have to use a lot of sun/moon cards to get through doors. Right after that part you go into this sand maze... it's been a while so I don't know exactly how it went, but you had to go through the maze in some order having to do with the little diamond light things over the doorways.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I'll take another Metroidvania title simply because they, imho, have loads more replay than the more classic titles. However, I would LOVE to see classic elements get intertwined with the Metroidvania style. For example, Aria of Sorrow + Castlevania 2 would be a purely sexual title, imho. Multiple castles (ala Zelda dungeons) linked by an overworld with multiple towns, etc. Just insane potential there. I do not want to see the ARPG elements dropped in favor of some tired (by today's standards) platformer arcade title with 2 hours of life in it. (Though a handheld Classic CV compilation with spruced up graphics and sound would be AWESOME.)

All those are excellent ideas (especially that multiple castles linked via an overworld). They definitely need to expand on what they brought to the series so far (not regress to less developed gameplay) for it to survive.

 

[duckroll]

you should not level up then. Then the game isn't weaksauce.

suggestion: stop sucking at platforming
suggestion: stop relying on leveling instead of skill
assumption: the games being catered the weaksauce must not have been that successful as you didn't like them

Right, right. Unlike you guys, I'm not a deluded gamer that makes excuses for flaws of a game I like. Neither of you haven't addressed the problem at all nor did you read my post probably, just a typical "oh if you don't like easy, don't level!" which is bullshit because the entire POINT of my post was about how I -want- to be able to kill everything as I should be able to (it's a fucking ACTION GAME) without the game automatically making it easier for me. XP Levels have no place in platforming anyone who thinks otherwise needs to DIE kthx.

but you account for only a small portion of alL CV fans who can play Rondo of Blood and it really does need a US re-release on one of the current systems

I've played through the game thanks to a friend owning a duo and a copy of the game which both together cost him nearly 250 - 300 bucks

I'm sorry but while RoB is good it's not that good hell IMHO it's not worth the 150 bucks the game itself tends to go for


a re-release of that is majorly needed

Ok, you're right, a re-release at normal price would be nice. But that should be something automatic and a "bonus" to fans, not something a lead designer talks over and over about for years like it's one of his ONLY bright ideas.

about time people got into this discussion and backed the MV CVs! Its astounding that guys can play advanced/evolved versions of a game (while is undeniably better than the source titles) and want to regress back to 16bit gameplay. Time to break them nostalgia glasses.

How are they undeniably better? Maybe for you but some of us enjoy using a whip, hate experience levels, prefer something more focused and linear, and more challenge. Saving is the worst thing to have ever happened to platforming. Metroidvanias have poor focus and there's nothing "outdated" or "devolved" about classic platforming, if you don't like it you don't have to play it but know that we were here BEFORE you and you should have some respect. It's not nostalgia that makes us hate metroidvania, it's REPETIVENESS. The old Castlevanias had more variety and new tricks in each new game than any Iga developed game has in the past 6 years.

 

[Mejilan]

It'd also be nice if they beef up the combat system a bit.

Aria of Sorrow made decent headway into standardizing combat a bit more. Most of the different weapon ideas were also in SotN, but I think AoS (with its beefed up enemy patterns) gave you more opportunities to use the different types of weapons successfully. Axes and Hammers against enemies that lobbed or arced weapons towards you, rapid fire (but short length) daggers and fists for slower enemies, etc.

It's be nice if they implemented a rudimentary combat system which would vary from weapon type to weapon type, and provide increased chances of rare item drops and boosted exp for taking out enemies using full combos or other stylish moves. Nothing deep like Street Fighter, but if every weapon had even 2 or 3 different swing types that could be chained together to be more effective against certain enemies or defenses... it could go far into making these games that much more fun, imho.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Right, right. Unlike you guys, I'm not a deluded gamer that makes excuses for flaws of a game I like.

You'd have to be deluded to think the old castlevania games had better gameplay than the recent "metroidvania" games.

 

[Virgin Wii]

I'll take another Metroidvania title simply because they, imho, have loads more replay than the more classic titles. However, I would LOVE to see classic elements get intertwined with the Metroidvania style. For example, Aria of Sorrow + Castlevania 2 would be a purely sexual title, imho. Multiple castles (ala Zelda dungeons) linked by an overworld with multiple towns, etc. Just insane potential there. I do not want to see the ARPG elements dropped in favor of some tired (by today's standards) platformer arcade title with 2 hours of life in it. (Though a handheld Classic CV compilation with spruced up graphics and sound would be AWESOME.)

SotN was fantastic, CoM was incredible, HoD was... let's forget about that, and AoS was uber-refined.

I just want to see something new grow off this Metroidvania style rather than see the same gameplay get tweaked and recycled into a new castle.

A platformer without RPG elements is "tired"?

IGNORANCE!!

 

[Mejilan]

Calm down, drama queen.

By 'tired' I actually meant 'dated'. It was a mistake on my part, for I am, in fact, tired today. I realize that technically, Metroidvania is 'tired' and classic CV isn't, given the large number of Metroid-like games and the relatively non-existence of new classic-styled. Like I said, I won't say no to EITHER kind of CV, but as far as the classic gameplay is concerned, I think I'd rather see a complete US version of Rondo of Blood or a souped up compilation of the classics rather than an original game.

I still think SotN in a CV2-like world would be PERFECT. And that really was the point of my post, not to jab at one kind of CV or another.

 

[duckroll]

You'd have to be deluded to think the old castlevania games had better gameplay than the recent "metroidvania" games.

Why? How many old castlevanias have you played? It's a completely different genre. Let me ask you a question, if Capcom started making 3D combat sim versions of 1942/19XX/etc with customizable planes, shops, free-form missions, etc, would you say that anyone who thinks that the old vertical shooter versions of 1942 games have better gameplay than this new ones are deluded? I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to "more/longer/larger = better". I believe each type of gaming experience is different and some are more enjoyable than others, I feel 100% that the old Castlevania style is more enjoyable than metroidvania now because it's getting so fucking repetive.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Please answer this question: Why is mixing levels and experience points with action any more advanced than pure, well-done, detailed, thought-provoking action gameplay? Action RPGs have been around since 1984 (see Dragon Slayer on the PC88), so why do people act like the Castlevanias that mix those kinds of elements with tepid, poorly-developed action are the fucking future? If I want blase level design, boring enemy patterns, and OH MY GOD I CAN LEVEL UP I'll just go play that turd Ys III for fuck's sake. That's the main problem with Metroidvanias: they're broken from the beginning because they're designed around gaining experience to beat enemies instead of providing a consistent and engaging action-based challenge. If the three on GBA had half the ingenuity of design that Rondo has, you wouldn't have any complaints from me.

I think the free-roaming gameplay and the experience levels need to be separated in this discussion. They are not one and the same, and they do not need to be grouped together. Metroid has free-roaming gameplay, but it also has great action mechanics and great enemy patterns, and it does not allow you to unbalance the game during the course of normal play (unless you count the enemy generators, but that's minor and is a different story). Metroidvanias do, and that's why they're broken. The games require backtracking through the castle and fighting the same enemies over and over, which always results in the player becoming overpowered. Sure, you can rush through the game or impose artificial restrictions on yourself so that the game keeps some semblance of challenge, but seriously...if that's required of the player, there's something wrong with the game.

To sum up: Metroidvanias drag down the series by diluting the play experience with shoddy action-mechanics and level design, and show laziness in their overall design with how too much reliance is placed on level-grinding instead of the series' traditionally strong action. The series needs a kick in the pants with regards to all aspects of design, and experience points and equipment are NOT a cure-all.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Why? How many old castlevanias have you played? It's a completely different genre. Let me ask you a question, if Capcom started making 3D combat sim versions of 1942/19XX/etc with customizable planes, shops, free-form missions, etc, would you say that anyone who thinks that the old vertical shooter versions of 1942 games have better gameplay than this new ones are deluded?

Hey, that's a good idea. Do it capcom! Your comparison is rather flawed due to the 2 games you just compared are completely different whereas the metroidvania's just expand on the gameplay of the old ones by infusing new gameplay elements. Your comparison would be more like comparing the old ones and the new 3d one on ps2 (or the n64 ones).

 

[Pimpbaa]

Please answer this question: Why is mixing levels and experience points with action any more advanced than pure, well-done, detailed, thought-provoking action gameplay? Action RPGs have been around since 1984 (see Dragon Slayer on the PC88), so why do people act like the Castlevanias that mix those kinds of elements with tepid, poorly-developed action are the fucking future? If I want blase level design, boring enemy patterns, and OH MY GOD I CAN LEVEL UP I'll just go play that turd Ys III for fuck's sake. That's the main problem with Metroidvanias: they're broken from the beginning because they're designed around gaining experience to beat enemies instead of providing a consistent and engaging action-based challenge. If the three on GBA had half the ingenuity of design that Rondo has, you wouldn't have any complaints from me.

I think the free-roaming gameplay and the experience levels need to be separated in this discussion. They are not one and the same, and they do not need to be grouped together. Metroid has free-roaming gameplay, but it also has great action mechanics and great enemy patterns, and it does not allow you to unbalance the game during the course of normal play (unless you count the enemy generators, but that's minor and is a different story). Metroidvanias do, and that's why they're broken. The games require backtracking through the castle and fighting the same enemies over and over, which always results in the player becoming overpowered. Sure, you can rush through the game or impose artificial restrictions on yourself so that the game keeps some semblance of challenge, but seriously...if that's required of the player, there's something wrong with the game.

To sum up: Metroidvanias drag down the series by diluting the play experience with shoddy action-mechanics and level design, and show laziness in their overall design with how too much reliance is placed on level-grinding instead of the series' traditionally strong action. The series needs a kick in the pants with regards to all aspects of design, and experience points and equipment are NOT a cure-all.

Yes the RPG elements need work (perhaps by introducing new tougher enemies once you level to a certain point), but there is nothing wrong with the actual gameplay, level designs, or enemy patterns in the new games (in fact I think they are quite a bit better).

 

[Mejilan]

To be fair, the platforming is much tougher and more fun in the classic games than in the Metroidvania style.

Though I agree that the action and combat is better in the newer ones. Or at least, has the potential to be MUCH better. They really should make enemies have tiered abilities. Like, for every set amount of levels you gain, enemies get a relative stat increase and perhaps even a new attack pattern every couple of upgrades.

 

[drohne]

word, jiji. i can't stand the breed of gamer who looks down at action games while calling pap like zelda "deep."

after a brilliant start with rondo of blood and sotn, iga has kind of killed the franchise. i've had enough portable 'vanias that are "remarkably close to sotn." and lament of innocence sucked. i want either a return to castlevania's action roots or a metroidvania that surpasses sotn rather than trailing lamely in its wake.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Yes the RPG elements need work (perhaps by introducing new tougher enemies once you level to a certain point), but there is nothing wrong with the actual gameplay, level designs, or enemy patterns in the new games (in fact I think they are quite a bit better).

If you try playing a modern Metroidvania with its usual Belmont character (whip and special items only, no equipment, no levels), it becomes clear just how diluted all action and level elements are compared to the earlier games. The experience is positively dull.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but take a look at Rondo of Blood to see how interesting locations, environment interaction, and freeform, branching levels can combine with excellent action gameplay for something no GBA CV has matched.

 

[Pimpbaa]

word, jiji. i can't stand the breed of gamer who looks down at action games while calling pap like zelda "deep."

after a brilliant start with rondo of blood and sotn, iga has kind of killed the franchise. i've had enough portable 'vanias that are "remarkably close to sotn." and lament of innocence sucked. i want either a return to castlevania's action roots or a metroidvania that surpasses sotn rather than trailing lamely in its wake.

LoI did more damage to the series than the gba games. I really don't know what Iga was thinking releasing that as it was. Oh and you may have derailed the thread horribly with that "pap like zelda" comment :lol

 

[SantaC]

the n64 castlevanias were definitley better and had more varied gameplay than loi, but they also had more flaws.

I remember that carrying that nitroglycerin without jumping was very cool done in CV N64.

wasn't the ending of N64 CV kinda weird? A little girl of evil or something that was never explain.

 

[Mejilan]

the n64 castlevanias were definitley better and had more varied gameplay than loi, but they also had more flaws.

I remember that carrying that nitroglycerin without jumping was very cool done in CV N64.

wasn't the ending of N64 CV kinda weird? A little girl of evil or something.

Sounds like you only got the "evil" ending and didn't fight the true last boss. You're talking about CV64, not the LoD remake, right?

 

[SantaC]

Sounds like you only got the "evil" ending and didn't fight the true last boss. You're talking about CV64, not the LoD remake, right?

yes that must be it. I only rented this game, but beat it. So it was another boss after dracula? Cool.

 

[Mejilan]

yes that must be it. I only rented this game, but beat it. It was a cool game.

IIRC, CV64 had 4 different endings. 2 bad endings, 2 good endings.

LoD mixed things up a bit too, IIRC.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but take a look at Rondo of Blood to see how interesting locations, environment interaction, and freeform, branching levels can combine with excellent action gameplay for something no GBA CV has matched.

I thought it was kinda dull myself. I played through it once and enjoyed it, but never really touched it again. It just felt like a spruced up CV3. Sotn was a much better game. Although I would agree that Rondo was better than the GBA Castlevanias.

 

[SantaC]

IIRC, CV64 had 4 different endings. 2 bad endings, 2 good endings.

LoD mixed things up a bit too, IIRC.

yo quoted me before I edited

So dracula was technically not the last boss in CV64? Wasn't that a first for a CV game?

 

[duckroll]

Hey, that's a good idea. Do it capcom! Your comparison is rather flawed due to the 2 games you just compared are completely different whereas the metroidvania's just expand on the gameplay of the old ones by infusing new gameplay elements. Your comparison would be more like comparing the old ones and the new 3d one on ps2 (or the n64 ones).

No the comparison isn't flawed, I think you just don't realize how DIFFERENT the metroidvanias are from traditional castlevania anymore and you're too deep into the argument to admit that. The new 3D shooters on the PS2 and N64 still play exactly the same, it's just a graphical upgrade so that comparison is even more off.

 

[Mejilan]

Sounds like you only fought the "classic" Dracula form. The one where he teleports, shoots out fireballs, etc, all played to the sound of the song, Illusionary Dance. Dracula also has a demon form that you fight in a strange dimension. But you have to meet certain conditions earlier in the game to guarantee that the classic form isn't the last one.

 

[SantaC]

Sounds like you only fought the "classic" Dracula form. The one where he teleports, shoots out fireballs, etc, all played to the sound of the song, Illusionary Dance. Dracula also has a demon form that you fight in a strange dimension. But you have to meet certain conditions earlier in the game to guarantee that the classic form isn't the last one.

ah thanks for clearing that up. I only fougth his classic form then.

 

[Mejilan]

NP.

 

[Pimpbaa]

No the comparison isn't flawed, I think you just don't realize how DIFFERENT the metroidvanias are from traditional castlevania anymore and you're too deep into the argument to admit that. The new 3D shooters on the PS2 and N64 still play exactly the same, it's just a graphical upgrade so that comparison is even more off.

Nope, when you go to 3D, the gameplay changes drastically considering you have to take into account the extra dimension (in regards to jumping and aiming your whip or whatever at the enemies). I don't even consider the 3D castlevania games true castlevanias (just because of how different they play). More like a 3d action game with a castlevania theme. This is true of almost every 3D update to an old series (Metroid Prime 1 and 2 ain't true Metroids!).

 

[duckroll]

Nope, when you go to 3D, the gameplay changes drastically considering you have to take into account the extra dimension (in regards to jumping and aiming your whip or whatever at the enemies). I don't even consider the 3D castlevania games true castlevanias (just because of how different they play). More like a 3d action game with a castlevania theme. This is true of almost every 3D update to an old series (Metroid Prime 1 and 2 ain't true Metroids!).

Oh you're talking about 3D castlevanias, I'm sorry I thought you were talking about comparing old shooters with new 3D shooters.

 

[SantaC]

gameplay of castelvania has always felt special. It actually never feels tired or generic . All 3 GBA CVs were all in the same vein, but they delivered, and CotM and AoS more than delivered.

They need to get rid of the castle only setting though. It was very evident in Loi, were the forrest and village at the start of the game looked very atmospheric. Once you got into the castle, it felt like a giant copy and paste fest of the rooms.

 

[Virgin Wii]

Calm down, drama queen.

By 'tired' I actually meant 'dated'. It was a mistake on my part, for I am, in fact, tired today. I realize that technically, Metroidvania is 'tired' and classic CV isn't, given the large number of Metroid-like games and the relatively non-existence of new classic-styled. Like I said, I won't say no to EITHER kind of CV, but as far as the classic gameplay is concerned, I think I'd rather see a complete US version of Rondo of Blood or a souped up compilation of the classics rather than an original game.

I still think SotN in a CV2-like world would be PERFECT. And that really was the point of my post, not to jab at one kind of CV or another.

I believe that when you think of a new Castlevania with the "classic" style, you think of something like Rondo or Super IV with little to no improvements to the gameplay. I'm not sure if that's what you really think, but that's the impression I got from your 'tired' statement.

I think there's a LOT of room for improvement in the "classic" style of Castlevania, and it can still feel fresh without free-roaming levels or RPG elements. But I'd rather those elements be included.

 

[SantaC]

Can anything actually beat the original Castlevania music to NES? It still sounds fantastic given it's on a NES soundchip. The music composers were miracle men back in the days :lol

 

[kiryogi]

Sounds like you only fought the "classic" Dracula form. The one where he teleports, shoots out fireballs, etc, all played to the sound of the song, Illusionary Dance. Dracula also has a demon form that you fight in a strange dimension. But you have to meet certain conditions earlier in the game to guarantee that the classic form isn't the last one.

The demon form was in LoD and that was really Dracula. (insane battle) While in the original final dracula was him as a Dragon that breathed nuclear fire. (Mushroom clouds!) How LoD mixed up things was that the supposed Dracula you faced at first was his servant, while the real Dracula was to be reborn elsewhere... It's actually a fun bit of plot how LoD explained everything that led up to CV64 and more so.

 

[Mejilan]

Agreed. The whole werewolf/bait thing was just a great, great twist. And that final boss was awesome too.

 

[Socreges]

Aria of Sorrow rocked. I'd rather a traditional side-scroller that focused entirely on the controls and how the player/enemies interact, forfeiting the average exploring elements (besides the nice novelty of having each area connected in such a way), but this is the next best thing. I was afraid that they'd try 3D again, so this would be a relief.

 

[shuri]

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest was certainly one of the ballsiest sequel, since it was so different than the original. I want a sequel that uses the same style of gameplay.

 

[Foobar]

For all the people calling it "Metroidvania" I'm just not seeing the same kind of progression. There are similarities, such as platforming and exploration, which I like. But Castlevania falls short of Metroid's satisfying challenges and exploration by having a RPG system that makes it too easy and a design that doesn't leave all that much to the imagination.

SotN onward gives you a slew of items and power-ups, yet so few of them have any meaningful value; in Metroid, you're using all the tools you're given, of which there are plenty. The only real thing that stops you from beating a Castlevania is a lack of levelling up, wheras most Metroid games at least involve experimentation, skill and critical thinking to complete. Then Castlevania throws these absolutlely random requirements for a real ending, while everything in Metroid is intuitive and the requirements for best endings are resonable.

Personally, I still like Iga's 2D take on the series much more than any other Vania installments. I hated the old games and their clunky controls. What SotN offered was a ligher take on what Metroid did, while offering the same kind of strong atomosphere, great music and fun platforming experience.

Lament tried to mix the old style of the series with Devil May Cry and it was awful. The atmosphere and music were there, but what made the last four games better was absent - namely the exploration. Sectioned portions of the castle, none of which intertwined, also killed it for me. The lack of good power-ups was another flaw.

What elements of Metroid Castlevania did assimilate made the series feel more meaningful, even if it still didn't quite match Metroid in design or quality. I think moving away from those elements that SotN brought to the series actually is more harm that good. SotN-AoS were genuinely fun and satisfying to play, Lament just felt like a soulless chore.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think we're really COMPARING metroid and castlevania here. Metroid is obviously vastly superior, but we call it metroidvania because that's the clear inspiration for SotN and subsequently all the SotN wannabes. It falling short of the glory of what it copied doesn't mean it didn't copy from it. No one here is saying "Metroidvania is as good as metroid!" but it's merely what we use to seperate Iga's crap from the classic goodness.

 

[sureshooting]

Where else are we going to get our metriod fix now that series turned into FPS?

EXACTLY!! This is why SOTN was so popular in the first place. The Metroid series is just a joke now. Its like Nintendo's embarrassing attempt at Halo.

The sad thing is, though, that there will never ever be another 2D Castlevania outside of a handheld.

 

[jarrod]

This is true of almost every 3D update to an old series (Metroid Prime 1 and 2 ain't true Metroids!).

But what about "pap" like Zelda?

EXACTLY!! This is why SOTN was so popular in the first place. The Metroid series is just a joke now. Its like Nintendo's embarrassing attempt at Halo.

Er, maybe you missed Metroid 4 and the Metroid 1 remake?

 

[Tsubaki]

Screw the haters, "Metroidvania" is the best thing to happen to the series. To go back to the old style would be a de-evolution. No way in hell I'd pay full price for a linear side scroller I could finish in a couple of hours. Iga is the savior of the series!

:lol :lol :lol

The sad thing is, your post is probably serious.

I'm in serious agreement with duckroll in this thread. He points out a lot of flaws with the Metroidvania formula that I would have said. Particularly the fact that it has leveling up is such a hindrance because it makes the game far too easy. And the fact that it's now a maze game, you lose the intensity of a real platform game.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of old Castlevania... in fact, I find many entries quite dull and too simple for my taste. But, I still think that Metroidvania, including everyone's beloved SOTN, is flawed beyond all means.

If you took offense to duckroll calling Metroidvania food for weaksauce, you're just plain ignorant. Iga himself said he stuck in the RPG elements to cater to you pathetic gamers out there.