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[phant0m]

No, but you guys (internet in general, not GAF) need to knock it off with the Switch shit and lumping it in to emulation/ROM sites.

There was an unwritten agreement that the pubs/platform holders left the community alone when the platforms and games in question were no longer on sale and had been relegated to "retro/legacy". Everyone played along with the "I'm just playing my own backups" sham, which really didn't matter because you haven't been able to buy Genesis carts for 2 decades, yeah?

Emu community got too reckless with ryujinx/yuzu and really pissed off Nintendo, who then went big dick banhammer on all the ROM sites and 20+ year old stuff that had been hanging around for years just fine suddenly disappears.

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL (all of that is piracy and you goddamn know it).

Also, don't buy the Chinese handhelds that come pre-loaded with like 5000 ROMs. I see that shit all over instagram now and it blows my mind.

 

[Parazels]

I wonder how those emulation fans would react if their own content ran free on third-party "emulators"!

 

[phant0m]

I wonder how those emulation fans would react if their own content ran free on third-party "emulators"!

If it was something I made 15+ years ago and had been compensated for many times over, I'd just be glad that anyone still cares to look at it

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Guns are used for violence and crime, doesn't make them illegal.

Guns aren't inherently bad. But they are widely misused which is why they are so heavily regulated.

Same thing with emulation. Its primary use now is for piracy.

Its amusing to me how when some no name artist gets a small bit of their art that was never used for anything gets swiped by someone else we get multi page threads here on gaf condemning it as stealing but then come up with every excuse in the book to justify downloading Nintendo roms lmao

 

[sodstall]

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL.

Yeah the "abandonware" topic I think is important detail too when it comes to emulation along with preservation.

 

[Parazels]

If it was something I made 15+ years ago and had been compensated for many times over, I'd just be glad that anyone still cares to look at it

 

[Mithos]

 

[Beretta]

I don't care if it is or isn't, I'm still going to enjoy the fuck out of using it and pretending I'm a badass.

 

[Edder1]

Guns aren't inherently bad. But they are widely misused which is why they are so heavily regulated.

Same thing with emulation. Its primary use now is for piracy.

Its amusing to me how when some no name artist gets a small bit of their art that was never used for anything gets swiped by someone else we get multi page threads here on gaf condemning it as stealing but then come up with every excuse in the book to justify downloading Nintendo roms lmao

Emulation is not good or bad, just like any tech the software is neutral and can be used for both legal and illegal means. Attacking emulation is stupid and it has no basis in legality. If you have a problem with users and how they use it then you take it up with them. Just because people use it for piracy doesn't mean the software shouldn't exist, lol. On that basis you could start banning a ton of stuff. This is a very authoritarian view, a reason why I can't stand a company like Nintendo and will never pay them directly for their software.

 

[SScorpio]

I don't know what country you are in, but according to Google's AI below

"

See the bullet about purpose. You can't legally use the archive copy while the original is sitting on a shelf. You can't copy a PSX disc to a USB as that violates the DMCA.

AI the tool of tools who can't think for themselves. All your other posts make much more sense.

 

[SScorpio]

Hasn't Nintendo recently demolished several emulators in a court?

No they haven't. They threatened lawsuits but for good reason haven't gone to trial. You'll never see Nintendo take an emulator writer to an actual trial, it's because established case law says that legal.

What they hit the Switch emulators with piracy claims revolving around unreleased games that were supposedly used to hit the emulator so they worked on day one.

If the emulators themselves were illegal Nintendo would have filed a claim in a court and Github would have been forced to remove the repos. But the original repo was removed by the original offers as part of the don't sue us deal with Nintendo.

 

[phant0m]

Frankly, I don't give a shit who/what you believe, but thanks for coming out.

 

[tr1p1ex]

It's 99.99% used for piracy.

And thus there's no difference practically speaking.

 

[kevboard]

No, but you guys (internet in general, not GAF) need to knock it off with the Switch shit and lumping it in to emulation/ROM sites.

There was an unwritten agreement that the pubs/platform holders left the community alone when the platforms and games in question were no longer on sale and had been relegated to "retro/legacy". Everyone played along with the "I'm just playing my own backups" sham, which really didn't matter because you haven't been able to buy Genesis carts for 2 decades, yeah?

Emu community got too reckless with ryujinx/yuzu and really pissed off Nintendo, who then went big dick banhammer on all the ROM sites and 20+ year old stuff that had been hanging around for years just fine suddenly disappears.

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL.

you act like emulating Nintendo handhelds while they are still actively supported is a new thing.

the first GameBoy emulator running commercial games released in 1995. probably even earlier, but those were the dark ages in terms of information about this stuff, 1995 is however the earliest confirmed one.

the first GBA emulator that ran commercial games released in 2000, and the first really good one in 2002.

the first decent DS Emulator released in 2004.

and the first decent 3DS emulator in 2014.


so Nintendo emulation has always been like this.
nothing has really changed. you could get GBA roms ahead of the actual game launch on many rom sites. bootleg GB and GBC carts were everywhere. SD card based rom cartridges flooded the market...

the Switch had it way easier than other Nintendo handhelds. because emulating Switch games is actually not that straightforward, while emulating any of their earlier handhelds was so easy, you could do it on dumb-phones.

I had a GameBoy emulator on my N-Gage back in the day lol... and the PSP had GB and GBA emulators.
meanwhile, I don't think there's a working Android or iOS emulator for Switch games yet, even tho the system is now officially last gen and lasted for 8 years.

 

[Parazels]

No they haven't. They threatened lawsuits but for good reason haven't gone to trial. You'll never see Nintendo take an emulator writer to an actual trial, it's because established case law says that legal.

What they hit the Switch emulators with piracy claims revolving around unreleased games that were supposedly used to hit the emulator so they worked on day one.

If the emulators themselves were illegal Nintendo would have filed a claim in a court and Github would have been forced to remove the repos. But the original repo was removed by the original offers as part of the don't sue us deal with Nintendo.

To be precise when I talk about emulators and piracy, I call pirates the people who run ROMs on emulators, not the emulator developers.

However, let's be honest: these developers are the key part of the piracy albeit not being pirates themselves.

 

[Topher]

To be precise when I talk about emulators and piracy, I call pirates the people who run ROMs on emulators, not the emulator developers.

However, let's be honest: these developers are the key part of the piracy albeit not being pirates themselves.

And you make no distinction between those who own/rip the games they are emulating and those who download the games from the internet?

 

[StereoVsn]

My reflexes are long gone… but at least I still have my hair!

 

[DragonNCM]

 

[phant0m]

the first GBA emulator that ran commercial games released in 2000, and the first really good one in 2002.

You're really trying to sell that the first GBA emulator came out a year before the system was released (2001)?

EDIT: just found the old GAF thread on it, damn. somebody effed up big time.

 

[Parazels]

And you make no distinction between those who own/rip the games they are emulating and those who download the games from the internet?

I suspect those "owners" are such a marginal part of the emulation users that we can neglect them and focus on pirate majority.

 

[SScorpio]

To be precise when I talk about emulators and piracy, I call pirates the people who run ROMs on emulators, not the emulator developers.

However, let's be honest: these developers are the key part of the piracy albeit not being pirates themselves.

But what about legal ROMs? There are devs creating games for retro systems that sell just the ROM for you to play in the emulator or your choice, or with flash carts on original hardware.

Sega until recently sold the Genesis/Mega Drive Collection on Steam. When you install it, it downloaded unencrypted copies of the ROMs for you to play as you want. https://steamdb.info/app/34270/

Downloading or copying a game you don't own in some other way is piracy. Running a ROM on an emulator is not piracy.

 

[kevboard]

You're really trying to sell that the first GBA emulator came out a year before the system was released (2001)?

indeed. someone created an emulator that ran a leaked e3 tech demo rom and some homebrew I think.

that's how fucking fast these guys were back then. and the same guy then also made the first emulator that ran commercial games in 2001 (that emulator technically also released in 2000, but of course you couldn't run commercial games yet as they weren't available yet lol)

 

[Topher]

I suspect those "owners" are such a marginal part of the emulation users that we can neglect them and focus on pirate majority.

Nah

 

[Durin]

It can be used for piracy, but the people responding yes it is the same as piracy...delusional thinking. Any tech can be misused, it still doesn't negate intent.

If you own the games, fuck off it's people playing them on another device the same way I can convert my blu-rays to digital files to stream them across my NAS (or remote into them).

It doesn't matter if other people convert their movies/tv shows into digital files to torrent out to others for free (or download themselves), their use is illegal...mine is not.

You do have the grey area of making ROMs for some systems requires buying very specific hardware and going through a technical process more complicated than just MakeMKV for a movie...or the abandonware issue where there is no legal way to buy a copy besides second-hand so the dev/ip holder still gets nothing. Argue away on that, I don't care.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The emulator is not piracy.

The 2TB ROM collection I have is piracy.

 

[Parazels]

But what about legal ROMs? There are devs creating games for retro systems that sell just the ROM for you to play in the emulator or your choice, or with flash carts on original hardware.

Sega until recently sold the Genesis/Mega Drive Collection on Steam. When you install it, it downloaded unencrypted copies of the ROMs for you to play as you want. https://steamdb.info/app/34270/

Downloading or copying a game you don't own in some other way is piracy. Running a ROM on an emulator is not piracy.

I don't know, but this case is definitely not the main problem in comparison to the thousands of illegal ROMs that have flooded internet.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL (all of that is piracy and you goddamn know it).

So you're against me:
- Buying system (Nintendo gets my money)
- Buy cartridge (Nintendo gets my money)
- Console banned (I lose money and NSO subscription isn't prorated to me, system becomes useless online forever)
- Dump game for the silicon I own and paid for
- Play game on emulator with game cartridge sitting on my desk
- Enjoy game in 4k resolution on hardware the scam company can't afford to give me because they want extreme profits

Now I'm a criminal playing my own backups?

 

[Arachnid]

It is in my case lmao

 

[phant0m]

indeed. someone created an emulator that ran a leaked e3 tech demo rom and some homebrew I think.

that's how fucking fast these guys were back then. and the same guy then also made the first emulator that ran commercial games in 2001 (that emulator technically also released in 2000, but of course you couldn't run commercial games yet as they weren't available yet lol)

that's crazy, though I'm guessing that was an emulator for that very specific code/game, not a 'general platform' emulator that any cart rom would run on. still nuts though.

and I don't disagree with your other statements and did not support or use emulators for those systems at the time either - but even then, Nintendo mostly left the emulation community alone.

but the switch stuff really pissed them off and it's had a cascading effect on much much older stuff that's now made it harder to find.

 

[phant0m]

So you're against me:
- Buying system (Nintendo gets my money)
- Buy cartridge (Nintendo gets my money)
- Console banned (I lose money and NSO subscription isn't prorated to me, system becomes useless online forever)
- Dump game for the silicon I own and paid for
- Play game on emulator with game cartridge sitting on my desk
- Enjoy game in 4k resolution on hardware the scam company can't afford to give me because they want extreme profits

Now I'm a criminal playing my own backups?

you can stop the sham, you don't do those bottom 3 things and you know it.

and btw, I voted 'no' in the poll - I strongly support emulation for systems and software no longer in retail production.

also why'd your console get banned?

 

[SScorpio]

The emulator is not piracy.

The 2TB ROM collection I have is piracy.

2TB???

 

[SScorpio]

that's crazy, though I'm guessing that was an emulator for that very specific code/game, not a 'general platform' emulator that any cart rom would run on. still nuts though.

and I don't disagree with your other statements and did not support or use emulators for those systems at the time either - but even then, Nintendo mostly left the emulation community alone.

but the switch stuff really pissed them off and it's had a cascading effect on much much older stuff that's now made it harder to find.

No it was a normal emulator. The GBA only used off the shelf parts that were documented. Programming manuals and spec sheets were freely available from the manufacturers. The GBA itself did have minimal BIOS, but games back then were just mapped on to memory and executed. Nowhere near what we have today with full operating systems running on hardware and managing multiple things running at once.

You also must not have been around for the past 30 years, Nintendo has gone after emulators and ROM sites for legacy systems before. Are you forgetting about UltraHLE that did N64 emulation and supported Ocarina of Time months after it released? Emulators at the time struggled with sound on the SNES and we suddenly had N64 games running.

 

[kevboard]

that's crazy, though I'm guessing that was an emulator for that very specific code/game, not a 'general platform' emulator that any cart rom would run on. still nuts though.

the original emulator only ran that tech demo and homebrew specifically developed for it.

but the guy released a general purpose GBA emulator in 2000 that could run commercial games after they became available later.

and I don't disagree with your other statements and did not support or use emulators for those systems at the time either - but even then, Nintendo mostly left the emulation community alone.

but the switch stuff really pissed them off and it's had a cascading effect on much much older stuff that's now made it harder to find.

I think Nintendo was already pissed off during the DS, when everyone and their grandma had a flash cartridge.

 

[FingerBang]

Would emulating a game from 15 years ago that it's impossible to play be considered piracy?

Emulation, in itself, is not piracy. Emulation CAN be used for piracy, of course plenty of people have played Switch 2 games that way, but they're not the same thing.

Massive gray area, but not much we can do about it

 

[baphomet]

They have nothing to do with each other.

You can emulate without piracy, and you can pirate without emulation.

What a stupid ass question

 

[Roni]

Emulators don't pirate software; People pirate software. We should focus on mental health instead of trying to regulate a tool which is so useful for society.

 

[SScorpio]

the original emulator only ran that tech demo and homebrew specifically developed for it.

but the guy released a general purpose GBA emulator in 2000 that could run commercial games after they became available later.

I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but the GBA released in Japan in March 2001, and June 2001 in the US. I remember there being day one ROM dumps of the US games and they were playable.

 

[ReBurn]

No, emulation itself isn't piracy.

Downloading and emulating games so you don't have to pay to play them is scummy, though.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

2TB???

Old DOS games, CD based systems, PS2, etc. it could be much bigger if I collected everything!

 

[Trogdor1123]

If it was, Microsoft would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[MSduderino]

Of course, emulation does NOT equal piracy and you can use it without pirating. But OP said it best,

emulation is first and foremost used for piracy.

and they are related in that emulation is a tool used for piracy.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

No, but you guys (internet in general, not GAF) need to knock it off with the Switch shit and lumping it in to emulation/ROM sites.

There was an unwritten agreement that the pubs/platform holders left the community alone when the platforms and games in question were no longer on sale and had been relegated to "retro/legacy". Everyone played along with the "I'm just playing my own backups" sham, which really didn't matter because you haven't been able to buy Genesis carts for 2 decades, yeah?

Emu community got too reckless with ryujinx/yuzu and really pissed off Nintendo, who then went big dick banhammer on all the ROM sites and 20+ year old stuff that had been hanging around for years just fine suddenly disappears.

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL (all of that is piracy and you goddamn know it).

Also, don't buy the Chinese handhelds that come pre-loaded with like 5000 ROMs. I see that shit all over instagram now and it blows my mind.

Unwritten agreement between platform holders and the 'community'? Baloney!

The emu dev game has always been about who can get the most impressive shit out. And the most impressive shit was always emulating the most recent hardware as fast as possible.

Any sort of "guys this is just for muh games preservation" argument is a retcon.

 

[reinking]

Nah

I stopped doing it a couple of generations ago because I wasn't playing the games I was ripping anyway. I had big dreams that convenience and portability through emulation would allow me to catch up on my classic catalogue. That dream has since died... /taps

 

[near]

No, emulation does not mean piracy. But it does encourage or enable piracy. How many people dump their own games? How many people who emulate "their games" dump their own BIOS files from their consoles? I can almost say with absolute confidence that very few people do. The moment you decide to download a BIOS file, it becomes illegal.

It's a nuanced topic, but as a kid whenever kids at school used to talk about emulation, they meant one thing: piracy. While times have changed, emulation is still synonymous with piracy as far as I'm concerned. I say that as someone who has dabbled and played around with emulators since the late 90s/early 2000s with Nebula and Kawaks.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The level of ignorance here is over 8000 and ironically comes for some known suspect console warriors.

 

[MSduderino]

Unwritten agreement between platform holders and the 'community'? Baloney!

The emu dev game has always been about who can get the most impressive shit out. And the most impressive shit was always emulating the most recent hardware as fast as possible.

Any sort of "guys this is just for muh games preservation" argument is a retcon.

Unwritten agreement might not be the best word choice but I think he meant platform holders like Nintendo didn't care if you were emulating legacy/retro games. Emulation is not about impressing you with anything its just to be able to play a game on a device it wasn't designed for. Sure it can improve the experience, but with media that's still selling it's riskier and could be flagged as piracy even if it's within the law.

 

[Superkewl]

I would say it's legal if you are emulating a rom that you personally ripped from a physical copy you own but let's be honest, that probably represents like 1-2% of people emulating while 98% are pirating.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's not piracy on paper. However, let's face it, it's mainly used to pirate games for most people. That is its number one use.

Nope.

However, it can be used for piracy.

It's like a medicine, using correctly is something good, using incorrectly it can cause harm.

Guns aren't inherently bad. But they are widely misused which is why they are so heavily regulated.

Same thing with emulation. Its primary use now is for piracy.

How??

Afaik, not a single emulator out there can be used to download illegal roms.

 

[MSduderino]

DO NOT EMULATE OR ROM DUMP SYSTEMS AND GAMES CURRENTLY IN RETAIL (all of that is piracy and you goddamn know it).

Also, don't buy the Chinese handhelds that come pre-loaded with like 5000 ROMs. I see that shit all over instagram now and it blows my mind.

This should be the lesson and what we are talking about. Not the philosophical "Is emulation piracy?"

 

[hemo memo]

No, emulation is totally legal and we've got the court cases to prove it. Sony actually took emulator companies to court a couple of times : Sony v. Bleem and Sony v. Connectix. And guess what? Sony lost both times.

These cases basically set the precedent that creating emulators is perfectly fine. The courts decided that as long as the emulator itself doesn't steal Sony's original code, and it's just letting your computer run games from another system, it's all good.