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Catherine |OT| Sheep, Matrimony, Terror - Love Is Gone

T

TheExodu5

Banned
Amir0x said:
GiantBomb always sucks. For everything.

Why would it make you feel better just 'cause a review is bad or good? Who cares. Judge for yerself :p

The game is just bizarre. The choice system is so painfully obvious, and even if it wasn't already obvious, the game makes it explicitly clear what the game thinks of a choice even if the choice SHOULD be ambiguous.

And the gameplay is just... I don't know if it'll hold up over 15 hours or however long this game is. It's ok, but as a puzzler I've played much better and as an action game (if you can stretch it to call it that... I dunno) I've played infinitely better.

I just don't know where this fits right now in my mood. Still considering it with time.
Click to expand...

I do wish that meter didn't exist. The choices are pretty obvious... but that's fine with me. Given its current setup, I'm feeling content with just answering truthfully and seeing where the game puts me, so I'm not too disappointed in that regard.

The gameplay is definitely iterative...I think your enjoyment will really depend on how well you get the puzzle element, and how much you enjoy iterating on previous designs/solutions. It's not completely intuitive to me at this point, so my enjoyment here is not as high as it could be. Certain levels are just downright frustrating. Maybe it will click with me down the road...

Still, the experience is completely fresh for me, so I can give it a pass or two. Although linear and invariant, the story has been interesting so far. The script and voice acting have definitely been a cut above as well (for the most part...aside from the rumor gossip dialogue).

Giolon said:
Harsh, but I think that's pretty fair. On a blind guess, I'd have expected a 3/5 from those guys.

I have to say though, as much as I am enjoying the game, I don't feel it's anywhere near the 9/10 quality that many review sites are giving it. I think even an 8 is generous. I feel like the review press is so glad to see something refreshingly original, that they're willing to overlook any awkwardness or fumbles on its part.

Don't get me wrong, I love the shit out of a lot of aspects of this game (Soejima's artwork is makes sweet love to my eyeballs, and the soundtrack is definitely ear candy) - but as a purely enjoyable gaming experience? I'm not quite sure it's there.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Originality certainly counts for a lot. A game like Demon's Souls was enjoyed quite a bit, despite its many flaws, on the account of it being a refreshing experience. I'm not saying Catherine is on the level of Demon's Souls, but it certainly deserves a bit of leniency from those who might appreciate what it's bringing to the table.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
TheExodu5 said:
I do wish that meter didn't exist. The choices are pretty obvious... but that's fine with me. Given its current setup, I'm feeling content with just answering truthfully and seeing where the game puts me, so I'm not too disappointed in that regard.

The gameplay is definitely iterative...I think your enjoyment will really depend on how well you get the puzzle element, and how much you enjoy iterating on previous designs/solutions. It's not completely intuitive to me at this point, so my enjoyment here is not as high as it could be. Certain levels are just downright frustrating. Maybe it will click with me down the road...

Still, the experience is completely fresh for me, so I can give it a pass or two. Although linear and invariant, the story has been interesting so far. The script and voice acting have definitely been a cut above as well (for the most part...aside from the rumor gossip dialogue).
Click to expand...

See I think it is certainly something new, or at least a mix of enough different things to feel relatively new, but you know me... I don't give points merely for being fresh. Those disparate elements must actually be good in the end.

I'm not saying it's bad... just bizarre. For the moment I'm not into it and not feeling it, so I hope it grabs me. I'm only 3 hours in
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
The gameplay is perhaps more tedious than fun, i'm playing the stages because I want to progress with the story and I also didn't repeat one for a better rating yet. But its one challenging game at the same time, and it does require you to think and act fast.

Ofcourse Kurushi is the far better puzzler, but Catherine just has awesome presentation, music and atmosphere and a genuinely interesting plot. And as every review stated, there is nothing really like it.

I love it so far (stage 5), but I can see why others don't.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Amir0x said:
See I think it is certainly something new, or at least a mix of enough different things to feel relatively new, but you know me... I don't give points merely for being fresh. Those disparate elements must actually be good in the end.
Click to expand...

Heh, yeah, I understand. And in the end, as much as I'm enjoying it now, I don't think it's a game that will stand the test of time.

SkylineRKR said:
The gameplay is perhaps more tedious than fun, i'm playing the stages because I want to progress with the story and I also didn't repeat one for a better rating yet. But its one challenging game at the same time, and it does require you to think and act fast.

Ofcourse Kurushi is the far better puzzler, but Catherine just has awesome presentation, music and atmosphere and a genuinely interesting plot. And as every review stated, there is nothing really like it.

I love it so far (stage 5), but I can see why others don't.
Click to expand...

That seems to echo my sentiments pretty well.
 
P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I was not expecting the stage 6 boss to be so easy considering the hell that was 6-2/6-3. I'll take it though! Loving the game so far.
 
Giolon

Giolon

Member
cj_iwakura said:
Does GiantBomb's review boil down to 'waaah, hard game is hard' like every other bad review?
Click to expand...

No, it boils down to Jeff thinking the block puzzles were not very fun and all kind of same-y, limited interactions in the bar, and his choices not really being reflected in they way the story played out.

Or you could, you know, read it yourself. It's not like it's a thesis.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Giolon said:
No, it boils down to Jeff thinking the block puzzles were not very fun and all kind of same-y, and his choices not really being reflected in they way the story played out.

Or you could, you know, read it yourself. It's not like it's a thesis.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's a text review? I assumed it was video.


And the last thing I'd say is the block puzzles are 'same-y', unless he didn't get past Stage 3.
There's all kinds of stuff involved.
 
T

tiff

Banned
Amir0x said:
Why would it make you feel better just 'cause a review is bad or good? Who cares. Judge for yerself :p
Click to expand...
Yeah, I hardly even read reviews for games that I agree with unless they're particularly insightful criticism.

Bummer if it dissuades a lot of people from giving this game a shot, though I hardly think this is what will make or break it.
 
D

dragonlife

Member
cj_iwakura said:
And the last thing I'd say is the block puzzles are 'same-y', unless he didn't get past Stage 3.
There's all kinds of stuff involved.
Click to expand...

The special blocks change things up a bit, and you'll have to climb towers while running away from a large boss-style monster during the last puzzle of every night, but the act of pulling and pushing blocks around to form staircases and create paths doesn't hold up for the entire game, and by night three or four (which is a little before the game's halfway point), I found myself not wanting to play anymore.
Click to expand...

The puzzles didn't feel same-y to me at all. In fact, they're the main reason I enjoy the game, seeing as how it's the only gameplay, really. The story could have been so much better, but what we got was decent, especially near the end.

I do have to say that I'd be excited to get puzzles over with so I could see the next cut-scenes, though.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
The game is a little guilty of (ending spoilers)
traditional supernatural Shin Megami Tensei lunacy, but I kind of expected that, since it's from Hashino and co. It's still a wild trip, and tells it in a great way.

The adult settings and themes help a lot, too.
 
S

sephi22

Member
Fantastic game. Finished it today. Was longer than I expected.
Still have to unlock Babel but played about 3 hours of Colosseum after completing it. Laughs were had.

As for the ending: I got the 'normal ending'
Vince proposes to K. She says maybe. 3 months later, they show her planning the wedding sitting on top of him on bed
 
M

Mdk7

Member
Got it today, i just got to the third night...
This game's astonishing.
I mean, i was expecting something good, but frankly it completely blew my mind.
Surely it's very peculiar, and probably too damn weird (both gameplay and atmosphere-wise) for the general audience, but if you like this kind of niche stuff it's just terrific.

What REALLY struck me is that Catherine takes the videogame as a medium to a whole new level of maturity and consciousness never experienced before.
And what's mind blowing is that it does all this by choosing a VERY different route from say Heavy Rain and all the crap that Cage talks about: Catherine does NOT try to be a movie, and it deals with very serious themes with great intensity, and with its own unique way.
It amuses you, it surprises you, it thrills you, (really, in a couple of moments i was sweating like I was in Vincent's fucked up place!!!) without being serious at all costs, without mimicking movies and instead by deliberately playing with its cartoony soul, by using lots of hyperboles, by being a surreal and grotesque caricature.
And fuck, this is a HUGE achievement to me.

I'm in love, i applaud you Atlus.
 
K

Kambing

Member
I have been trying to figure something out but still can't. It has to do with relationships in the game. I will spoiler it just in case.

So the NPC Justin at the bar says on night 5 or 6 that he just interviewed a woman about how she is unsure who the father of her baby is. Justin tells Vincent that the woman decides to go with one of the guys even though she is not positive he is the father. Later on in the game, during the nightmare stage in night 6, you meet a sheep that is obviously Jonny. When you engage in conversation, Jonny wonders if betraying his best friend by dating his girl led him to the nightmare land. So the question is, are Jonny and Katherine having an affair?
 
D

dragonlife

Member
cj_iwakura said:
The game is a little guilty of (ending spoilers)
traditional supernatural Shin Megami Tensei lunacy, but I kind of expected that, since it's from Hashino and co. It's still a wild trip, and tells it in a great way.

The adult settings and themes help a lot, too.
Click to expand...

EDIT: I just realized I didn't even agree or disagree with anything you said :p I derailed it into overall story talk. Oops :p

I agree and somewhat disagree. Sometimes I felt that
some scenes boiled down to the same thing. "Are you hiding something, Vincent?" "You've been acting strange lately." "Is there something you want to tell me?" Obviously that's normal seeing the circumstances, but it was pretty much all that recycled for a few nights with marginal new additions in story. I personally felt it was a bit slow and a bunch of cockteasing. The game, for me, picked up in pace a ton before stage 8 and until the end, which is pretty much the end.

The format it was told in could have been better. Cut-scene -> 3-4 puzzles -> cut-scene -> 3-4 puzzles, etc. And seeing as how some puzzles could take people a while, I'd like to have a bit more of the story sprinkled about just to whet my appetite until we got to the cut-scenes; maybe Vincent talking to himself during the puzzles, at least. Or just internal monologue about decisions he'll have to make, etc. It's all "Whoa, get away from me!" "Ugh, I have to keep climbing?" "I won't die." "I'm almost there." at the beginning; and a snarky reply at the end of bosses.

The landings were good, though. I liked talking to the sheep. That said, the confessional story bits were its own thing. Basically, what you learned there you'd never learn outside since you never remember anything, so you'd have to wait until you finished a puzzle until you heard more, and sometimes it wasn't even anything interesting and/or more giant cockteasing

I feel like I left out some details. All that said, I honestly don't mean to sound like I'm ripping the game apart. Even with the stuff I found to be disagreeable, Catherine is still my favorite game in a long time. I seriously love it.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Regarding Erica, (endgame spoilers)

They drop hints that she's a man all over the place.

Vincent outright tells her,

"I'd believe that if it were coming from a woman."
 
D

dragonlife

Member
cj_iwakura said:
Regarding Erica, (endgame spoilers)

They drop hints that she's a man all over the place.

Vincent outright tells her,

"I'd believe that if it were coming from a woman."
Click to expand...
That'd be pretty awesome. I personally took it all to mean that she was just a tomboy
 
U

Utako

Banned
mattp said:
i've seen a bunch of people complaining that there is no nudity in this game..
my only real reaction to it is:


neogaf
Click to expand...
Don't be obtuse. Nudity is featured in all media at all levels of production, and it's especially appropriate in a game with sexually-charged themes.

It simply isn't because of taboos, which is ridiculous and a little saddening. I'm an adult.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
dragonlife said:
That'd be pretty awesome. I personally took it all to mean that she was just a tomboy
Click to expand...

That's the spoiler in the credits I warned people about. It's also implied that Orlando, Johnny, and Vincent all know. They went to high school with Eric.

Making them even bigger jerks for not telling Toby before he sleeps with her.
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
cj_iwakura said:
The game is a little guilty of (ending spoilers)
traditional supernatural Shin Megami Tensei lunacy, but I kind of expected that, since it's from Hashino and co.
Click to expand...
I think that's my only complaint about the story

LAWFUL ENDING SUPER SPOILERS
In... at least two of the endings, specifically when he tries to reconnect with Kathrine and has to convince her to give him another chance, it really felt like they wrote themselves into a corner.

I guess fundamentally, he's "telling the truth" for the first time, but merging that supernatural plot thread with Kathryn's rationality happens so awkwardly, especially since they already did it earlier in the game when Kathrine confronts Catherine before wiping Katherine's (or was it even real? OOOOOOoo mysterious!) memory of the event.

In fact it's so awkward that they sort of get it over with by having it happen off-screen, by fading out as Vincent's friends and Thomas Mutton go through the agonizing explanation, then fading back in with her going "Ok, I guess I accept this now and will not live my life differently knowing that man is a demon."

Despite that hurdle being perhaps the more important turning point of Katherine's character, they ABSOLUTELY deserve one big suspension of disbelief for everything else though. I have to admit they got me when Katherine first left, and I thought I was headed towards a bad "neutral" bad ending.

I'll accept that one stumbling story beat as a bitter pill to swallow to allow for the awesomely satisfying ending.

Also, probably already mentioned pages back, but way to go Hashino for one-upping Persona 4's gender identity characters, with actual subtlety and respect.
 
D

dragonlife

Member
cj_iwakura said:
That's the spoiler in the credits I warned people about. It's also implied that Orlando, Johnny, and Vincent all know. They went to high school with Eric.

Making them even bigger jerks for not telling Toby before he sleeps with her.
Click to expand...
Ha. That's awesome. I guess that would explain why Vincent was sure they wouldn't let her into women's wrestling.
 
M

Mr. Pin

Neo Member
dragonlife said:
Ha. That's awesome. I guess that would explain why Vincent was sure they wouldn't let her into women's wrestling.
Click to expand...

Check out Orlando's intensely uncomfortable moment when he's alone with Toby.
 
A

Adam Blade

WWKC
Papercuts said:
It is, I just got all of them on my first run.

There's limited time but the actual progression of them leaving is one by one, so you can get them all in a certain order.
Click to expand...

What's the order, Papercuts?
 
E

Erigu

Member
cj_iwakura said:
That's the spoiler in the credits I warned people about. It's also implied that Orlando, Johnny, and Vincent all know. They went to high school with Eric.
Click to expand...
Funny how Erica being "Eric" completes the list of (probable?) name references:

Vincent Gallo
Johnny Depp
Orlando Bloom
Tobey Maguire
Eric Bana

(also, I suspect there's more to Erica than the gender switcheroo...)
 
K

KingHenrik30

Member
This game is great but I am for sure at my wits end and what I feared would happen when I contemplated whether to buy this game or not is happening - I am getting dangerously close to chucking my controller through the TV.

Can somebody help a brother out with Day 7

Part 3, after the first checkpoint, there are two walls, to the left there is a wall that goes (Legend: U= Unmoveable block, M= Moveable block)
UM MU and to the right is one that goes MUM with one spring on the top of the middle column
What do I do?!?!? Playing easy mode btw
 
I

iAmMaximus

Member
Thinking about picking this up. I'm hearing that the gameplay is pretty hard, which I don't mind. How is the story? All that matters for me.
 
M

Moofers

Member
The Int3rsect said:
Thinking about picking this up. I'm hearing that the gameplay is pretty hard, which I don't mind. How is the story? All that matters for me.
Click to expand...

The story is pretty fresh and unique. Little bit of Fatal Attraction, little bit of The Grudge, and a whole lot of love triangle. I bought it for the story and ended up really loving the puzzles as well. I'm in Stage 5 right now (of 9) and the story just seems to get better as it goes along. Kind of took a bit to get going, but I'm fully invested now and really happy to be onboard. I'm thinking this will be one of the top 3 or 5 games for me this year. Its very special.
 
Y

Yuripaw

Banned
When I think about it some more, this game is refreshing to me in that we finally have an anime style game with characters that are not all a bunch of teenagers. Not that I always dislike playing as a bunch of teens, I loved Persona 4, but I can relate to these characters in Catherine much more because they are closer to my own age. I remember what it was like to be a teenager, but as I get older, it is harder to hold on to that mentality. Whenever you got a story about a bunch of kids, they always walk on eggshells when it comes to talking about adult topics like sex. This game goes all out with it's mature themes, but does it well and in a tasteful manner. Not to mention Katherine, who's 32, way older than your typical anime sex symbol. It's not often we get a beautiful anime lady who isn't either in her mid to late teens. I leaned towards staying with her on my play through, and I'm glad I did.
 
I

iAmMaximus

Member
Moofers said:
The story is pretty fresh and unique. Little bit of Fatal Attraction, little bit of The Grudge, and a whole lot of love triangle. I bought it for the story and ended up really loving the puzzles as well. I'm in Stage 5 right now (of 9) and the story just seems to get better as it goes along. Kind of took a bit to get going, but I'm fully invested now and really happy to be onboard. I'm thinking this will be one of the top 3 or 5 games for me this year. Its very special.
Click to expand...

Great to hear. Will be picking it up tomorrow! Thanks!
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
The Int3rsect said:
Thinking about picking this up. I'm hearing that the gameplay is pretty hard, which I don't mind. How is the story? All that matters for me.
Click to expand...
If you liked Persona 4's story, it's very likely you'll enjoy this.

If you haven't played Persona 4, then WHAT ARE YOU DOING go buy it then buy this afterwards.

Otherwise, the story is great with some genuine surprises and unexpected humanity to some characters and situations.

The english trailer for the game from the OP does a great job of summarizing the tone and premise.
 
H

Havok

Member
Just finished it - True Lawful ending.

I don't know how I feel about this game. Maybe one of the most annoying but easiest final boss stages ever? Stop moving the camera around, you asshole. I like the beats of the story but can't stand that the characters all act like idiots whenever they aren't led by the hand to the solution to a mystery - a problem that Persona 4 had, but not nearly as egregiously. More than that though, they act like idiots during the conversations, too. There were probably a dozen instances in the game where I was literally flabbergasted by Vincent's inability to act like any rational human being in the history of anything would. The morality system works in the long run but it seems completely pointless in any given big story moment because no matter what he never fucking says anything but umms and uhhs and ambiguous lines that are obviously there to prevent having to animate the different trees in the animated scenes. Full disclosure: I played on Easy. It certainly wasn't hard or anything, but there are moments during the boss stages that were intensely frustrating because the controls never really felt up to par for me, and it only takes one 'why the fuck did you do that Vincent' to move the needle from passable to annoying. I guess I liked the game overall? I love the idea and the tone and the setup for the characters, but maybe not the execution.

Also (character background spoilers - probably better wait until you finish to read it):
Do they ever explain who Jonny betrayed and how? He keeps whining about it as a sheep but its never really fleshed out to my knowledge.
 
K

Knuckleruckamus

Neo Member
On the last boss (I think? Hope?) and some spoilered thoughts:

As Havok mentioned, WTF camera. For a puzzle game that requires relatively precise control and movement, suddenly shift the camera at the same moment your character is put into danger is a real dick move and a huge oversight, in my opinion. Even when it isn't to telegraph an attack I care about avoiding, it's still distracting and happens way way too often.

In general this game has serious issues with the word "final". It's lead me to believe I was on the final stage a good half-dozen times already and each time I finish the stage just to have more crap thrown at me. It'd be fine if the expectations were set better to begin with, but for how it is it gets a little frustrating. "Oh you thought you beat me? Mwaha! Here's yet another stage!" In some ways that's just a general attachment issue in Japanese games, the famous uber-last-boss syndrome (which has tended to stink up a good number of decent games by itself).

Not too crazy about the resolution of the issues. The writers had the chance to take things in a more introspective, intelligent angle but they ultimately opted for mystical/spiritual hand-waving bullshit, complete with never-before-mentioned names and a de-emphasis of central characters. I somewhat suspected that Boss would play a major role but there were so many other juicy threads they could've played with but totally ignored.. it hurts to see the missed opportunity. Perhaps the ending itself will prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

And just beat the game now, more thoughts:

One thing that stuck out a little too much to me about the Katherine vs. Catherine setup is, for the most part, you only see Katherine as overbearing where you get the more flirty, interested side of Catherine. I figured this was commentary on the honeymoon period of relationships, but it really makes choosing Katherine a little inorganic -- in fact she only shows some love once you apologize, at which point she calls and apologizes herself. Would love for a deeper treatment of these types of personalities / relationship issues one day because unfortunately this game boils it down too much to: really-hot-chick-you-can't-touch vs. chick-you've-been-with-forever-and-has-grown-stale, when in reality there's much much more.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Adam Blade said:
What's the order, Papercuts?
Click to expand...

Typically, I always talked to the old ladies, then for the people sitting at the bar on the right, then anyone in the booths, then to Justin, who tends to stay late. I always talked to Boss last since he obviously can't leave but time passes with him. Pretty sure I missed talking to Justin once and it apparently didn't matter, though if you want to make sure you don't miss anything I suppose you could save often and if you see someone leave just reload and talk to them next.
 
A

An-Det

Member
I ended up using this video guide for beating 6-3, there is no way in hell I could get that otherwise. I was destroying the stage too much with how I was doing it before. The Stage 6 boss and 7-1 were both easy after that

Goddamn I love this game.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I got the *major spoiler*
starting a new life aka getting married
ending with heavily prioritizing on Katherine.

Now I think it's time for me to side with Catherine.
 
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