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[Aztechnology]

This is also disappointing. The refugees coming into Canada can integrate into our work force and should be a boon for the economy. There are plenty of talented people coming from Syria, don't dismiss them.

The problem as you will continue to see in Europe, especially in France and now Germany is that integration to that level is almost impossible. Values, especially around religion and sex/gender are jusy too different. The way for proper integration is to spread people out as much as you can, but when you're talking about the sheer influx by number potentially it becomes an entirely different beast. Safety concerns and housing/services are an ever present issue, so they just lump everyone together. It just doesn't work from what I've seen. I don't necessarily blame people for not wanting to cause massive rifts in their established society/identities, even though it may be the morally right thing to do.

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

What's the percentage once Alberta is taken out of the equation?

Important question.

This is a very valid question

I too want to know what the percentage is after Alberta is gone.

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Alberta isn't the only place that does this. In BC people will casually say don't walk in Richmond because of bad Asian drivers or that Newton is "Hinduminium" central.

People may vote progressive but a lot do seem to have some super shady thoughts.

My dad is horrible for this and I want to choke him for it.

But yeah, the latent racism found within the Lower Mainland is awful when it comes to those cities specifically.

 

[Azih]

Interesting stuff. I think the old Trudeau ideals of Canada's multiculturalism as a cultural mosaic was not understood by his supporters. Look at the boomers surprised by the emergence of ethnic enclaves in places like Markham, Brampton, and Richmond.

You know a lot of these 'enclaves' are created by white flight just as much as people moving in.

 

[Horsemama1956]

I take it you're not familiar with Canadian history



It was a joke...those are things that are/have been done before.

*cough*North American history*cough*

Americans didn't exactly treat natives well either. I really doubt they didn't do the same thing.

 

[MMarston]

My dad is horrible for this and I want to choke him for it.

But yeah, the latent racism found within the Lower Mainland is awful when it comes to those cities specifically.

If I had a nickel for every time my godmother's husband made a Surrey joke...

 

[Silver Arrows]

If I had a nickel for every time my godmother's husband made a Surrey joke...

Yeah, it's terrible.

 

[Heshinsi]

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

Plot twist, I live in Alberta. The shit the spews out of some people's mouths is unbelievable. It's not just about minorities. The PC defeats in the Provincial and Federal levels has made a lot of people lose their damn minds. I was raised in Ontario, and not once did I ever see a vehicle with a confederate flag on it till we moved to Alberta.

 

[Wolf Dawgz]

Is Alberta some sort of super-conservative province?

Background for question: I'm American.

Yes it's the most conservative province in Canada and is known for people having racist views.

 

[MMarston]

Yeah, it's terrible.

The kicker? He's a Philippine immigrant who's only been here a few years who's clearly bandwagoning.

 

[gutter_trash]

Montreal does it right, Toronto does it wrong.

There are ethnic neighborhoods in Montreal but there is massive spillover effect from one part a neighborhood into the other and inter-mingling from one culture with another is better than other Canadian cities. 2ndly, each neighborhood is relatively smaller melding one with the other with best spillover intermingling effect

Toronto however and its suburbs have what the author refers to as ''Enclaves'' meaning allot and allot of ethnicities bunched up together in entire neighborhoods without much inter-mingling with others and the outside

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

Look at online postings by Global, CTV, Trudeau, etec. The most hateful and disgusting comments posted are almost always from Alberta. I've even made a game out of guessing where the comment poster resides in. Sure there's some nuts posting from every other province, but if you just put money on them being from Alberta each and every time, you'd be swimming in winnings. It's the GAF game where Florida is Alberta.

Yes, because online commets is a true barometer of an entire province of people, and one that houses a large portion of the immigrants in question.

 

[grumble]

This is not a simple issue. People who say diversity is typically a good thing have a point and people who say that there are issues with some aspects of multiculturalism do as well.

There are communities where, due to self segregation and permissive government policy, people are born and raised unable to fluently speak either national language and are unable to interact with the rest of the country. That limits them and hurts them, and hurts the rest of the nation as well - it's a reduced ability to contribute.

In some communities, there are cultural heritages that don't add to a progressive view of Canada - sex selective abortion for example is commonly practiced in at least one large community I know of.

The view many Canadians have is one where there is a rich tapestry of cultures and backgrounds that together add strength and variety that increases us collectively, but united by a set of shared values that permits us to work together and respect each other. Diverse communities are great, but isolated, segregated communities that have little interest in joining a greater Canadian community are less so.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The kicker? He's a Philippine immigrant who's only been here a few years who's clearly bandwagoning.

See, my dad is straight white and had lived there for nearly 25, 30 years. Most of his opinions were formed because of East Indian truck drivers, which he works in. Still, it's deplorable.

 

[Azih]

Toronto however and its suburbs have what the author refers to as ''Enclaves'' meaning allot and allot of ethnicities bunched up together in entire neighborhoods without much inter-mingling with others and the outside

How much time exactly have you spent in GTA suburbs?

 

[Jeffolation]

The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

Uhh, what?

 

[Walpurgis]

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

Quebec too.

😉

 

[Silver Arrows]

Uhh, what?

The Praries as a whole, especially Saskatchewan and Alberta, have hated the East ever since Pierre Trudeau's energy deals in the 70's. Harper managed to tap into the East hatred that exists from the work in the oil sands to even hockey on the CBC. Once he got in, Alberta Conservative voters were very happy to have someone that would have their back in regards to the oil sands.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

Surprise, I'm from Alberta. Did you see the results of the last federal election?

 

[Henkka]

I've never understood multiculturalism as a value in and of itself... Some countries like the US are very multicultural. That's fine. Some aren't, like Japan. That's fine, too. I don't see it as a positive or negative thing, really. I do think it can go wrong, where you're essentially creating parallel societies within a country. While fervent nationalism is bad, I think natives and immigrants alike should have some common "idea" of what the country is and work together to achieve that.

 

[Heshinsi]

This is not a simple issue. People who say diversity is typically a good thing have a point and people who say that there are issues with some aspects of multiculturalism do as well.

There are communities where, due to self segregation and permissive government policy, people are born and raised unable to fluently speak either national language and are unable to interact with the rest of the country. That limits them and hurts them, and hurts the rest of the nation as well - it's a reduced ability to contribute.

In some communities, there are cultural heritages that don't add to a progressive view of Canada - sex selective abortion for example is commonly practiced in at least one large community I know of.

The view many Canadians have is one where there is a rich tapestry of cultures and backgrounds that together add strength and variety that increases us collectively, but united by a set of shared values that permits us to work together and respect each other. Diverse communities are great, but isolated, segregated communities that have little interest in joining a greater Canadian community are less so.

Which communities in Canada have that issue? I know some places in Europe have that problem, but I find it hard to believe that there are second third generation Canadians that can't properly speak either of two national languages.

 

[JordanN]

This is also disappointing. The refugees coming into Canada can integrate into our work force and should be a boon for the economy. There are plenty of talented people coming from Syria, don't dismiss them.

That would be true, if we had more jobs. Right now, the market is ultra competitive.

 

[Dazzler]

I emigrated to Canada seven years ago and I'm doing my bit by wearing more flannel and vests

I get breakfast at Timmies most mornings too

 

[Zekes!]

Yeah, as much as we wanna mock Trump and the American right on their racist views, we're quick to forget that our (then in power) Conservative party was campaigning on some suspect views of Canadian immigrants just last year

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm from Alberta. No lies detected about it having the most "colourful" opinions in the country.

If I see a vaguely anti-immigration post on my FB, I know without looking what province they are posting from. Same goes for anti-Trudeau, pro-oil, anti-the rest of Canada posts... but those are maybe less-so offensive and more just being self-interested.

It's not as if the province is uniformly that way. I've heard positive sentiments come out of that province too. But make no mistake that there are opinions there unlike what you will find in the rest of the country.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Yeah, as much as we wanna mock Trump and the American right on their racist views, we're quick to forget that our (then in power) Conservative party was campaigning on some suspect views of Canadian immigrants just last year

Absolutely. One only needs to point out how Harper and the Cons amped up the anti-refugee rhetoric after that kid washed up ashore on the beach.

 

[Tapejara]

I actually would be interested in a breakdown of the provinces for this study. It'd interesting to see how the maritime provinces polled, because iirc they were 100% red during the federal election.

The problem as you will continue to see in Europe, especially in France and now Germany is that integration to that level is almost impossible. Values, especially around religion and sex/gender are jusy too different. The way for proper integration is to spread people out as much as you can, but when you're talking about the sheer influx by number potentially it becomes an entirely different beast. Safety concerns and housing/services are an ever present issue, so they just lump everyone together. It just doesn't work from what I've seen. I don't necessarily blame people for not wanting to cause massive rifts in their established society/identities, even though it may be the morally right thing to do.

Yeah, I can understand that. There hasn't really been a strain on our communities because of immigrants/refugees though, but we're also taking in less people that Germany and France, both of which are also geographically smaller.

That would be true, if we had more job. Right now, the market is ultra competitive.

I meant more that they'll be able to fill in positions that we're currently missing, but I'm not in the workforce at the moment so I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the current situation.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Yeah, as much as we wanna mock Trump and the American right on their racist views, we're quick to forget that our (then in power) Conservative party was campaigning on some suspect views of Canadian immigrants just last year

The Cons were also stomped in the fucking teeth for it, thankfully. But it was practically a nation-wide panic that Canada could face another term under that lunatic's regime.

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

Surprise, I'm from Alberta. Did you see the results of the last federal election?

I'm from Saskatchewan and by no means am Conservative or love Alberta myself, but simply looking at the results from the election dont tell you anything regarding this election. That was far more economically driven then immigration or social issues like the Hijab stuff.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Look at online postings by Global, CTV, Trudeau, etec. The most hateful and disgusting comments posted are almost always from Alberta. I've even made a game out of guessing where the comment poster resides in. Sure there's some nuts posting from every other province, but if you just put money on them being from Alberta each and every time, you'd be swimming in winnings. It's the GAF game where Florida is Alberta.

Last fall's election, and when they started coming out of the woodworks publically:
]

And I can quote various postings from people about Chinese or Asians in general about the housing crisis in Vancouver. Alberta has always been the go-to province to make everyone else feel better about their place. Similar to how people will say, "at least I don't live in Florida" even though they're place isn't even 50% better.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

As someone who grew up in Alberta and was physically attacked for being a minority, I hold Alberta in high disdain. Dislike it if you wish, but I still have family there and when I ask them if racism is still a problem, the answer is 'yes'.

 

[grumble]

Which communities in Canada have that issue? I know some places in Europe have that problem, but I find it hard to believe that there are second third generation Canadians that can't properly speak either of two national languages.

Third generation isn't that common, but happens. Second happens at times, yeah. This article doesn't directly address the language issue but does address the (in some ways good) situation of self-segregated neighbourhoods.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nati...nclaves-swell-and-segregate/amp?client=safari

I want to be clear in this as this thread could quickly have people misrepresenting my beliefs - I am a firm proponent of skilled immigration and multiculturalism. It's just foolish to think that there aren't many factors to consider or that there are potentially issues if done without foresight. I am very proud that Canada is a country that celebrates diversity.

 

[Heshinsi]

I'm from Saskatchewan and by no means am Conservative or love Alberta myself, but simply looking at the results from the election dont tell you anything regarding this election. That was far more economically driven then immigration or social issues like the Hijab stuff.

Here in Alberta, it was almost the same thing. Every damn day during the election people would be shit talking about how Trudeau was going to let the "terrorists" in. The refugee crisis was happening at the same time.

 

[MMarston]

The Cons were also stomped in the fucking teeth for it, thankfully. But it was practically a nation-wide panic that Canada could face another term under that lunatic's regime.

The thing was that with what he did in the last few years of his term, Harper started to look less like a PM that represented conservative values and more of a twirly moustached Bond villain who was blatantly trying to exploit every single thing to keep his party - and more importantly, himself - in power.

 

[CazTGG]

Yes because only in Alberta is this view possible and there is no way people could think this way on the east coast. The disdain for the prairies from the East is getting old, not to mention it's what helped fuel Harper to power.

#NotAlberta


No one is saying that it's impossible for this view to come from the province of Alberta, however Alberta has a history of mistreating minorities in a far greater fashion compared to other provinces and territories that simply cannot be ignored in regards to a poll specifically focused on minorities.

 

[FrigidEh]

As long as I can continue reading the signs I'm good. Markham is walking a fine line there.

 

[Hopeford]

NOTE: Everything I say here, I mean it anecdotally. I don't mean to imply that my experiences translate to every other immigrant in Canada.

Speaking as a Canadian immigrant...I can kind of see their point. I wouldn't want to force anybody to try to fit in more because, well, that's absolutely insane, but I do understand why someone would want people to fit in more in a non-racist way. Like I know maybe some of those votes were a tad prejudiced, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that a lot of those had good intentions.

When we moved to Canada, my father made it a point to live away from our 'community' because he was afraid that if he didn't do that, I'd have ended up speaking only in my native language, not really getting to know the country and etc. I...can kind of see how that would have been a problem now.

Now that I've gotten older and kind of started to interact with my old community to help out a little...I can see that some have suffered a little from their desire to stick together. A lot of them don't speak English well enough and go out of their way to only deal with businesses that speak our native language, even if that means hours of driving sometimes. They seem to basically stay as far away from Canada as they can while still living here...and I can see how that is a problem for them.

Now, I don't mean to imply that anyone should be forced to adapt in any way. We uh have a history showing why that's a terrible idea. But I do think that not trying to integrate, from purely anecdotal evidence, has some negative effects on the lives of certain minorities. As to how to solve that without being forceful(and that's the important part)...I don't know. I really don't know.

This is something where I go "I can see how this can be an issue, but I genuinely don't know how to improve the situation because all possibilities that come to mind seem too forceful if not borderline offensive."

 

[Moppeh]

The only thing I'm concerned about when it comes to refugees and immigrants is language. If someone comes here, it would be beneficial to themselves and those around them if they learned French or English.

Other than that, I don't really see the need for any other form of assimilation. I was taught that Canada was a mosaic enriched by its openness to varied cultures and I would hope that others try to keep their demands reasonable towards the people immigrating to a new and different land.

 

[BeesEight]

Honestly, if your answer to the question isn't "It's complicated" then I feel like you haven't enough knowledge on the topic.

The question itself is pretty vague and open ended that you can read into it in many different ways. But say you're someone from Kingston, Ontario and heard about the Shafia family killings from 2009, then I'm not going to gnash my teeth at you for answering that you agree with the statement. Or how about the protests over the 2015 Ontario Sex Ed reform and the number of families who wanted to pull their children from it to avoid "cultural indoctrination?"

The problem with the comment on keeping customs is that it covers too much ground. I 100% agree that Canada should not accept ideas of honour killings in anyway shape, or form. I also don't think that children should be denied basic sex education because their parents are from countries that don't believe in teaching their children to even identify basic anatomy. I don't think it's unreasonable for immigrants to be expected to meet certain Canadian expectations of individual liberty and self expression. If your culture includes bigotry or repression of sexual or gender minorities then you should be expected to leave those beliefs at the door.

Multiculturalism is an empty goal if it requires accepting regressive ideals. If people are going to throw a fit over niqabs, then yes I'd be willing to argue that their expectations of immigrants is ridiculous. But on the other hand, if it's to keep people from killing daughters who have the gall to date in their teenage years or to shelter their children from learning about homosexuality then I'm sorry but they should be expected to meet our values.

That the poll tied culture to language is also odd and furthers muddies any sort of conclusion to draw from the results.

 

[Apathy]

You can both keep your customs and integrate more into Canadian society. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

As an immigrant and monitory, I do sometimes see others that do nothing to try to integrate. They don't want to speak either language, they don't want to interact with people outside their comunities. Canadians as a whole are very nice, very accepting and very open. Trying to integrate into that society does not hurt the connection you have to your traditions and practices unless they are counter to western culture as a whole (say something like arranged marriages or female genial mutilation or honor killings).

 

[Aztechnology]

NOTE: Everything I say here, I mean it anecdotally. I don't mean to imply that my experiences translate to every other immigrant in Canada.

Speaking as a Canadian immigrant...I can kind of see their point. I wouldn't want to force anybody to try to fit in more because, well, that's absolutely insane, but I do understand why someone would want people to fit in more in a non-racist way. Like I know maybe some of those votes were a tad prejudiced, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that a lot of those had good intentions.

When we moved to Canada, my father made it a point to live away from our 'community' because he was afraid that if he didn't do that, I'd have ended up speaking only in my native language, not really getting to know the country and etc. I...can kind of see how that would have been a problem now.

Now that I've gotten older and kind of started to interact with my old community to help out a little...I can see that some have suffered a little from their desire to stick together. A lot of them don't speak English well enough and go out of their way to only deal with businesses that speak our native language, even if that means hours of driving sometimes. They seem to basically stay as far away from Canada as they can while still living here...and I can see how that is a problem for them.

Now, I don't mean to imply that anyone should be forced to adapt in any way. We uh have a history showing why that's a terrible idea. But I do think that not trying to integrate, from purely anecdotal evidence, has some negative effects on the lives of certain minorities. As to how to solve that without being forceful(and that's the important part)...I don't know. I really don't know.

This is something where I go "I can see how this can be an issue, but I genuinely don't know how to improve the situation because all possibilities that come to mind seem too forceful if not borderline offensive."

Your Dad/family had a lot of courage. I can imagine it would be really hard to do that. But as you said it's so important to establish your own identity independent of a specific demographic community. To at least fully understand and be able to navigate the landscape metaphorically speaking because you were forced to learn and adapt. I stayed in Chicago with my Uncle who's from Tijuana originally for a few months during a summer. The area is highly focused Mexican/immigrant. A good amount of first gen like my uncle, but also a lot of second and some third. While the kids/teenagers usually spoke fair English they had issues with reading/writing. Their parents rarely spoke English and if they did it was very poor. The cultural identity definitely felt completely separated from anything else and they very rarely ventured outside their community. I know it was a big worry for my aunt and uncle who later moved a few times for different types of exposure for my cousins. I think a lot of parents from immigrant families probably feel that way, and I really am proud of the families that put themselves out of their comfort zone. As a white male still living in the same old white town I grew up in, I think about all the time wanting to get as much exposure as I can to other cultures so I don't stagnate. My problem is my addiction to Internet and gaming... And how it relates to the Internet.

 

[darthbob]

Wonder what the thread responses will be like.

Millennial respondents — aged 18 to 34 — were also more likely to favour multiculturalism.

Yep.

 

[1044]

Honestly, if your answer to the question isn't "It's complicated" then I feel like you haven't enough knowledge on the topic.

The question itself is pretty vague and open ended that you can read into it in many different ways. But say you're someone from Kingston, Ontario and heard about the Shafia family killings from 2009, then I'm not going to gnash my teeth at you for answering that you agree with the statement. Or how about the protests over the 2015 Ontario Sex Ed reform and the number of families who wanted to pull their children from it to avoid "cultural indoctrination?"

The problem with the comment on keeping customs is that it covers too much ground. I 100% agree that Canada should not accept ideas of honour killings in anyway shape, or form. I also don't think that children should be denied basic sex education because their parents are from countries that don't believe in teaching their children to even identify basic anatomy. I don't think it's unreasonable for immigrants to be expected to meet certain Canadian expectations of individual liberty and self expression. If your culture includes bigotry or repression of sexual or gender minorities then you should be expected to leave those beliefs at the door.

Multiculturalism is an empty goal if it requires accepting regressive ideals. If people are going to throw a fit over niqabs, then yes I'd be willing to argue that their expectations of immigrants is ridiculous. But on the other hand, if it's to keep people from killing daughters who have the gall to date in their teenage years or to shelter their children from learning about homosexuality then I'm sorry but they should be expected to meet our values.

That the poll tied culture to language is also odd and furthers muddies any sort of conclusion to draw from the results.

This. This is not a black and white question, and you can't just look at the results and say Canadians are racist. All cultures have things they find normal and abnormal, and even if you try to be as inclusive as possible people always shun those for doing something abnormal in their eyes, whether consciously or not.

Just look at these forums. People on here tend to be really liberal and all, but even here we shame people's culture if it's something we don't like. Like eating dog, or bull fighting, or having sexual advertisements, or demonizing sex. We get to sit on our high-horses and say we are right because this is not normal in our eyes.

Reminds me of the scene in Off the Boat where the other kids are mocking the main kid for bringing noodles for lunch. Something that seems so completely normal to him, but not to the others. And because of this he feels pressured to fit in, whether that is the right thing to do or not. The exact same can be said for anything that is a cultural norm that the majority doesn't find normal, like eating dog or chicken feet or insects, wearing niqabs or burqa or hijab, honor killings, etc.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Plot twist, I live in Alberta. The shit the spews out of some people's mouths is unbelievable. It's not just about minorities. The PC defeats in the Provincial and Federal levels has made a lot of people lose their damn minds. I was raised in Ontario, and not once did I ever see a vehicle with a confederate flag on it till we moved to Alberta.

I was raised in Ontario. I live there now. I could hop in my car and drive around for 30 minutes and find a confederate flag on a vehicle. I am not defending Alberta (lol hell no), but you can't really use the confederate flag as the basis of anything. It's a function of location. I've seen them in Hamilton which is not a small city by Canadian standards.

That would be true, if we had more jobs. Right now, the market is ultra competitive.

Yup, job market is tough right now. It makes being an immigrant harder even if you are skilled because you have so much competition for these subset of jobs.

 

[crimzonflame]

It goes both ways. White flight is a thing, and I met many white Canadians who want nothing to do with immigrants.

 

[Newt]

I don't know, as I minority myself, when people say minorities should do more to learn the language etc I can't really disagree.

Living in Calgary all my life, I think people just have certain expectations from other citizens. Being able to speak fluent English is one of them.

 

[AntoneM]

I don't really think they're that contradictory. Your girlfriend could be satisfied by your sexual performance but still wish you would do more.

I think you forgot you're on GAF.

 

[Alienfan]

I think assimilation is an important part of immigration, cultural customs are not valid excuses for holding homophobic and sexiest views. Culture customs that don't marginalise others are of course important to keep intact

 

[Sushi Nao]

Fox News talking points filter across the border a couple of years later, and I fucking hate it.

 

[privitsan02]

I wonder what the overlap is.

Sometimes it makes me wonder how people are against this sort of ideology yet there are Canadians that heavily defend the French-only laws of Quebec. Or quite possibly most Quebecois people living outside of Montreal rather than straight up Canadians. That's probably the overlap. "I humbly welcome the immigrants, but y'all better get that French going."

In fact, being a bilingual minority and after growing up in Montreal for 2 decades, I still fail to understand the excuse of "defending our culture" when to comes to forcing similar ideologies. But I digress.

Best wishes.