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[Punished Miku]

They just assumed that Sony and MS will make an exception for them and their broken game in their "apology" tweet. This gets even better day by day...

Seems like they didn't even negotiate with Sony/MS before.

Or it was just another lie to get good PR from their apology.

Confusion over Cyberpunk 2077 refunds as PlayStation and Xbox deny requests | VGC

UPDATE: Sony has removed Cyberpunk 2077 from the PlayStation Store and is offering refunds…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[Panajev2001a]

So what I guessed is true.

- Rushed launch.
- Little to no real QA (in software development when the own dev do the QA is not considered reliable because the dev is already biased to test the things how he developed to works... it needs people not part of the dev team to do real unbiased QA like a 3rd-party QA team).

Seems like the game will have a long time to be fixed... that means the next-gen patches and expansions/DLC will come later imo.... maybe even missing 2021 (expansion/DLC case).

Not acknowledging most people doesn't have a next-gen console and gives a shit to next-gen console is really sad.

And seems like a lot is excuses are lies.
The refund discussion is sad too.

You can have QA's part of the dev teams that do an excellent job. The problem is that it seems you had more of the actual coders being asked to do their own QA's as the internal QA's were not in large enough numbers.

 

[B-universe]

I'm also sceptical of the ability of someone like Kicinski, who seems to focus on investors relations, to discuss technical matters at length or in detail. It'd be a nice having a lead developer or even a Chief Technology Officer show up to this calls and answer tech-related questions with precision and insight.

 

[ethomaz]

CDPR is not in a good position right now but I have to wonder, who decided or who "forced" them to develop/launch such an ambitious project for last-gen consoles? Was the MS/Sony cash that big that they couldn't ignore? I know they "had" to but they really shouldnt have. They could've gone down in history as the first next gen only game, no bugs, no crunch, etc. I guess in the end, money does corrupt everyone. Ironic that CP2077 is such an anti-corpo game and yet they are doing exactly what any corporation in CP did.

The project started 8 years ago.
CDPR have no ideia of next-gen when the starter it so it was always planned for PS4/360.

 

[prinz_valium]

 

[FatKingBallman]

Or it was just another lie to get good PR from their apology.

Or that. They needed some PR points. What is worse, they even fucked up PR points. LOL

 

[Panajev2001a]

They just assumed that Sony and MS will make an exception for them and their broken game in their "apology" tweet. This gets even better day by day...

Seems like they didn't even negotiate with Sony/MS before.

Exception? The digital stores and the whole pre-order system with no refund for digital games being a consumer right is the problem!

 

[FunkMiller]

Do you... do you think this makes PC players look good?

 

[ethomaz]

You can have QA's part of the dev teams that do an excellent job. The problem is that it seems you had more of the actual coders being asked to do their own QA's as the internal QA's were not in large enough numbers.

Yeap you are right.

I said that because at IBM the QA was not part of the technical dev team but I failed to realize both together can be called as part of the dev team.

The point is devs/coders do it own local/internal tests but they can't be considered QA because they are biased.

You need people that didn't work in the development the app to do the QA... to created real life situations that can create issues in the app because the dev/coder didn't expected the app being used like that.

 

[aries_71]

Game Developer God's forgive me, I just couldn't resist sharing this.

LOL at the guy standing on the bike without pants.
I just played the first mission were you have to visit ripper to get the first cyberware implants. While laying the on the chair, after the procedure, the camera switched to 3rd person and I could se that my V was totally naked. I wonder if its intentional and the good ol' doctor raped her while drugged. This abomination is beyond words.

 

[FunkMiller]

CDPR devs: decent folks, trying to do their best.

CDPR execs: hammering cunts, each and every one of them.

Rinse and repeat for every game studio.

 

[Neo Blaster]

why? its their money. Would you say the same if you invested alot of money in something and the company is losing it all?

So, as a investor do you condone to misleading practices no matter what?

 

[FatKingBallman]

Exception? The digital stores and the whole pre-order system with no refund for digital games being a consumer right is the problem!

Yes, exceptions. PSN and XBL have a refund policy, but they are different from GOG and Steam.

 

[MadAnon]

As polish... this is the most polish sentence "They also state earlier in the call there was limited QA testing done on the game, it was all done "in house" and no experienced third party contractors were used. CDPR employees played iterative builds of the game in their homes due to the pandemic and that's how they tested the game. "

Polish companies are so cheap, they would 100% ask devs to beta test themselves in home for free in their time. I absolutely see this...

Well, they do use fresh out of university workforce on minimum salary to help ship these big titles.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sorry for the PC gamers that took it without complaining enough...

 

[ethomaz]

If the CP team is resting until Feb, who is doing the patches?

I got the feeling you won't have anything until February.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes, exceptions. PSN and XBL have a refund policy, but they are different from GOG and Steam.

Which is a problem. They screwed people promising that digital prices would be lower ("no middleman") and they keep on doing that with sub-standard refund policies. This should be a wake up call...

 

[nowhat]

Witcher 2 was on the 360 as well, and they actually did a good job there.

That was a great version. Obviously not as good looking as on PC, but ran and looked definitely well enough for 360 (at least provided you installed a part of it to the HDD). Came in a very nice box + some merch too (remember physical copies?)

 

[Bartski]

In case you're wondering, most people asking the questions are listed here:

https://www.cdprojekt.com/pl/inwestorzy/analitycy/

...what a nice way to call those who are literally in charge.

Also:

Q: (...) Was it more about "the launch is important" or more about "we underestimated how bad the last-gen version was"? And secondly, and related to that, at the certification stage – presumably, Microsoft and Sony always get games that still have bugs, and decide they're going to be ok – partly on the basis of discussions with you that there will be fixes. Have I understood that correctly? Or do you feel somehow that the certification process is kind of only one side or the other, and failed to identify just how underperforming the last-gen version was?

A: . (...) In terms of the certification process and the third parties – this is definitely on our side. I can only assume that they trusted that we're going to fix things upon release, and that obviously did not come together exactly as we had planned.

So they know the game was certified based on trust in the day one patch. WOW.

 

[Neo Blaster]

If the CP team is resting until Feb, who is doing the patches?

Uh oh...

 

[FatKingBallman]

Which is a problem. They screwed people promising that digital prices would be lower ("no middleman") and they keep on doing that with sub-standard refund policies. This should be a wake up call...

Like i said, exceptions.
Because the last time this happened (Arkham Knight), there actually was a special arrangement to grant refunds without restrictions. CDPR didn't do that like WB did

Batman: Arkham Knight is still broken on PC, so WB is offering full refunds

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

 

[Soulblighter31]

Dishonored ran far better on pc than consoles at launch.
Dark Souls, contraty to popular belief, was the exact same game on pc as on consoles. It wasnt a "bad port". It was 1:1 like consoles. Issue is PC gamers have standards, thats why so many people complained about the internal resolution and lack of proper mouse and keyboard controls.
Mafia 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2 are miles ahead of consoles. Where did the impression came that those are poor ports ? They are the definitive way to play those games since day 1.
Horizon Zero Dawn is also the definitive way to play the game.
GTA 4 as well.

the only actual game with issues was Arkham Knight. Guess what ? On PC its still light years ahead of consoles.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Yes, because my point is that games should not release in any early state, including early access (which is just a way of making people pay for alpha/beta testing). That was my criticisim. Cyberpunk is basically early access as well but CDPR released it as the full game. Doesn't make a difference, though. Both games are apparently not finished and need more time in the oven.

I vastly prefer Larian's method which serves as a way to both beta test the game for free (actually, scratch that, you PAY to bet test), but ALSO give necessary feedback to tailor the game to the audience's preferences (which is huge for a game of this scope).

Imagine Skyrim releasing in alpha access and giving bethesda necessary feedback of gameplay ideas and mechanics which would turn 50% of mods obsolete. As a consumer, I'd love that.

Who supports such a bizarre meme?

Phil Spencer, for one. Guerrilla for another, when they claim horizon 2 is made from the ground up for the ps5. Utter horseshit, unless the ps4 of horizon f west will be as shitty as the cyberpunk ps4 version.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Who's to blame here? The gamer for pushing for a release, or CDPR for falling prey to the demand?

Personally, I'm going with the latter. CDPR should have stuck to their guns. Delayed til Spring 2021. The game is great, and would be a masterpiece if not for all the bugs. Good thing CDPR is known for applying fresh coats of paint to their IP's.

I dodged a bullet not buying this on my next gen console, feel sorry for those who were so excited and bought the game on last gen. They're basically left holding the bag if this is any indication. Now with consoles selling out like they are, if they don't have it now, they may end up waiting until February anyway to get their hands on a playable copy.

There are gamers and investors pressing for game releases everywhere, but that doesn't make every game shitty on release. CDPR has fallen victim of their own ambition and greedy.

 

[regawdless]

With all that valid criticism, I'm very curious about what exactly went wrong over the course of the development.

I'm sure there were a lot of bad management decisions, but it's always so easy to point to bad management. In SW development, so much shit happens that nobody could've imagined. The more systems and teams have to be synchronized, the bigger the scale becomes... Stuff can VERY quickly get totally out of hand. I can easily imagine stuff burning left and right, where there just aren't right decisions to make. You often only have options about different flavours of hell.

 

[M1chl]

I mean how long do they develop this game, it's really barebones and the AI and stuff like that is something which I would expect from City Interactive game, for fuck sake, make it GAAS and add features to that, there are some redemption stories in the industry, like for example For Honor and shit like that, fuck the MP and improve base game, because it feels like you are playing game which is 2-3 years from finish. It's crazy how long they took and how little of that is seen in the game. And this is not small team.

 

[kikkis]

With all that valid criticism, I'm very curious about what exactly went wrong over the course of the development.

I'm sure there were a lot of bad management decisions, but it's always so easy to point to bad management. In SW development, so much shit happens that nobody could've imagined. The more systems and teams have to be synchronized, the bigger the scale becomes... Stuff can VERY quickly get totally out of hand. I can easily imagine stuff burning left and right, where there just aren't right decisions to make. You often only have options about different flavours of hell.

My uneducated guess is that top designers were indecisive in terms of scope and features, demanded too much what programming was able to create and politics/poor management .

 

[hemo memo]

I got the feeling you won't have anything until February.

They already promised a patch this week and 2 large patches one in January and the other in February.

 

[GHG]

After the initial anger/shock PC gamers calm down and put their heads together as a community to come up with fixes.

Console gamers can't do this and are stuck with whatever shite the dev comes up with until the end of time.

So that's probably why.

 

[ethomaz]

They already promised a patch this week and 2 large patches one in January and the other in February.

So I have no ideia how they will do it.

 

[regawdless]

My uneducated guess is that top designers were indecisive in terms of scope and features, demanded too much what programming was able to create and politics/poor management .

And also, tech and expectations continually evolve. Over the course of it's long development, they had to adapt, which surely caused issues. It's very hard to know and plan what gameplay features and tech will be expected in 8 years.

 

[eot]

Fuck investors. They are garbage level people.

Other thsn that nornal problems like every other company.

Idiots in managment vs. Developers

Fuck the people who paid for the game to be made. "Ok".

WTF?
Is she retweeting this to gloat?
She just got fucking hired to be in the game?
WTF? At least if you are hired by them, shut up and let them ride the storm out.

You want to be the retard woke chick that throws your employer under the bus for quick clicks?
Ok, good luck.

How is it gloating? What a shitty take lol

Wtf is up with the hate boner you guys have for this woman

 

[hemo memo]

So I have no ideia how they will do it.

Unless those patches delayed of course you never know with how CDPR manage things anymore.

 

[Hudo]

I vastly prefer Larian's method which serves as a way to both beta test the game for free (actually, scratch that, you PAY to bet test), but ALSO give necessary feedback to tailor the game to the audience's preferences (which is huge for a game of this scope).

Imagine Skyrim releasing in alpha access and giving bethesda necessary feedback of gameplay ideas and mechanics which would turn 50% of mods obsolete. As a consumer, I'd love that.

I can understand your take. But then I would actually love to see Bethesda paying people to give that feedback and not the other way around or at least give those people the game for free, then. The problem I have with early access is the customer paying for it when they're essentially being used as an additional QA department.

 

[ethomaz]

Fuck the people who paid for the game to be made. "Ok".

You need to understand you paid for a full priced Early Access Beta Tester Program at CDPR.

Congratulations you are now part of their 3rd-party QA team

 

[Entroyp]

This game should have been a PC exclusive for at least a year.

 

[ethomaz]

Yes, because my point is that games should not release in any early state, including early access (which is just a way of making people pay for alpha/beta testing). That was my criticisim. Cyberpunk is basically early access as well but CDPR released it as the full game. Doesn't make a difference, though. Both games are apparently not finished and need more time in the oven.

I'm a bit against early access for these games.
You will be spoiled all over the internet before the game reaches the full release state.

 

[hemo memo]

This game should have been a PC exclusive for at least a year.

Yeah that would have been great for consumers but they like money more.

 

[GHG]

I get your argument but I still don't think that early access is okay either because it's basically letting people pay for alpha/beta testing. It's basically the same risk as buying a "released" game that needed more time, like Cyberpunk because we don't know whether the stuff that is to be added later for Baldur's Gate III or Mount & Blade II or any other early access game is good or not. What if Larian completely shit the bed with their later chapters/design decisions? It's basically the same "gamble" as buying Cyberpunk right now only that the moniker of "early access" allows for delaying the actual result of the gamble.

My whole point of criticism is that the culture of "release early, patch later" is something that shouldn't be supported. Now obviously, CDPR had 8 years to develop the game but as a customer that's not my problem if their internal project management was/is fucked up.

I get that some people don't like the idea of early access and that's fine but there's no ambiguity about it - you're buying a game that's still in development and you're effectively saying you're willing to offer both monetary and play testing support for the remainder of the time the game is in development. They are also clear on the fact that you are making a speculative purchase, the game might not end up being the game you want it to be and that's the risk you're taking. You have a choice whether you want to support this and it's clearly outlined prior to any money being exchanged, there's nothing cloak and dagger about this.

As an example if CDPR had released this game in it's current state via an "early access" program then the overall response would have been very different, but they didn't. They released it as a "finished" game and did everything they could to be deceptive about the state of the final product. This is something that absolutely shouldn't be excused as from where I'm sitting it's only getting worse and worse as time goes on. How low will the bar go before everyone wakes up and realises they shouldn't pre-order games and support products like this?

 

[B-universe]

And also, tech and expectations continually evolve. Over the course of it's long development, they had to adapt, which surely caused issues. It's very hard to know and plan what gameplay features and tech will be expected in 8 years.

Not everyone will be taking holidays at the same time, presumably.

Quotes:

"
We're also scheduling holidays; people are tired and – regardless of the situation and regardless of patches, we will not simply continue working as before; our people need to rest a bit. We will have a strong team working on patches at least until February
"
"
Q8: So could this have only been the new generation of consoles and PCs?

MN: So the answer here is "no": next-gens get a completely different version of the game, so it's not like we could have decided at any point recently to "flip the switch", so to say, and change the old-gen version to the next-gen version and release only on next-gens. As you have noticed, there is no native next-gen release. The game runs on next-gens and takes advantage of how next-gens are performing, but it's not like we had a next-gen version in our hands and decided to keep it on the shelf. "

"MN: So, for the first question – whether we're focusing just on technicalities or gameplay elements; things like AI – for example. To be honest – these are the same for us, from the production standpoint AI and NPC behavior fall within the general category of bugs, so if I can give you an answer – I think it does actually include that as well. I'll ask you to repeat the second question. "

(source)

 

[The Cockatrice]

Nobody forced them. This game was announced 8 years ago for those consoles. It was shown and advertised by CDPR for those consoles. The original release date before the delays was April this year, before the release of PS5 and Xbox One. I think after the release and subsequent success and acclaim that went Witcher IIIs way they always planned it, and then its obvious that at some point that plan shifted and they just gave up on it.

the first official launch date they announced was april this year, when PS4 and XBox One S where the default consoles most people bought.
They say that 40% of the pre orders were for consoles. Since there were no next gen consoles in April, they would have lost 40% of their sales. Why doing that? You do not want to give up 40% of you sales, that would be stupid.

I assume they expected to get a "good enough" version out there and saw the amount of problems way too late in the project. And it is not like it was clear from the beginning that the game will suck on current gen. The PS4 seem to be in the 25+ fps range for like 95% of the time and for surprising long time even over 30, so getting it to quite stable 30fps is not unreasonable.
You see a lot of bugs but these bugs are not because they are on current gen consoles, they are here because of not enough testing...

I don't have the game at the moment, but I expect it to be pretty good after some patches and the next gen versions to be pretty impressive.

It was a rhetorical question. Of course they did it for money. It always is about money but most of us wanted and hoped they found a miracle to make this ambitious game work for last-gen consoles. I suppose we hoped too much even from CDPR. Also just because they started the development way before ps5/x does not set it in stone that they should mandatorily launch the game for last-gen. They really did not have to if money wasnt involved but then again as they grew in numbers/stakes, greed has overcome their ambitions. They risked their image but they know very well it won't change much. Image matters little, I mean look at EA or Ubisoft.

 

[Bojanglez]

their only intent is to make the game playable from start to finish without crashing on last gen.

I mean, this should be the bar for release really.

 

[ReBurn]

Fuck investors. They are garbage level people.

Other thsn that nornal problems like every other company.

Idiots in managment vs. Developers

You mean the people who actually fund development of games so they can be made are garbage level people because they expect management to deliver on what was promised? It was a fair question. The investors didn't screw up the game.

 

[Pippelipeikko]

If only they had listened to Anita!

 

[Josemayuste]

If I were CDPR, I'd hire external teams to do the grunt work on PS4/One, and let in-house teams (maybe those on Cracow/Warsaw who were developing that multiplayer mode that no one asked for.) develop a proper next-gen version.

Maybe Saber Interactive might do a better job that CDPR in that regard, seeing as they managed to cramp a beast of a game like The Witcher 3 on a Nintendo Switch.

I'm sorry but I don't have any hope left that CDPR are able to manage this stuff properly already..

Who would have thought that after a game like The Witcher 3 they'd mess this game so much, what a pity.

 

[soulbait]

Hired or not is a technicality,
she took the glory from being in their game and then threw them under the bus.

It is this mentality that stops people from speaking honestly when something goes bad that they are apart of. From politics to the corporate world, saying someone cannot speak out about something simply because they were hired or did work for it is just the wrong take.

Kudos to her for pointing out this pile of console garbage even though she is associated to it.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

Not only they lied for 8 years, they weren't even competent enough to ship the lie.
They are admitting that they lied and fooled everyone.

The most amazing part?
There are people out there still willing to defend them.

 

[soulbait]

Get a decent PC or a next-gen console, if you want to play a next-gen game on a last-gen console you're asking for it to run like crap, there's no way around it. People are just entitled lately, the bugs maybe are inexcusable but performance and visuals? I still remember buying Half-Life 2 on a regular XBOX, it played like crap but all that mattered to me was finally playing the game, not sure why people expect miracles.

If you buy something for your console, you should expect it to be playable. That is not being entitled, that is just the standard way of buying goods work.

 

[ClosBSAS]

sounds like pc version is the way to go. and going i have been, great game. sucks for last gen consoles, but we all knew they were limitations but not as bad as this. I mean, look at rdr2. technical marvel with how big it is.

 

[ArtHands]

They just assumed that Sony and MS will make an exception for them and their broken game in their "apology" tweet. This gets even better day by day...

Seems like they didn't even negotiate with Sony/MS before.

It is likely they think refund on consoles are as fuss free as on PC, where Steam, GOG will refund with next to no issue. On Steam/GOG they will take a manual check if you exceeded the 2 hours rule but have legitimate reason (game breaking bugs etc). Who will have imagine the publisher actually needs to communicate with the store holder on how to proceed with refund, that's so backward. That's not how a digital store refund procedure should work in the year 2020 (and soon 2021).