Support NeoGAF

[FalsettoVibe]

dude, what the fuck is your problem, read the lawsuit. Maybe you missed the many pages where they talk about the similarities in story, lore, map design, character design, mechanics, logo & font, marketing campaign, etc., but it's all in there.

Even the part on the machines, you are being highly disingenuous. It's not just the robot dinosaur but the designs that are extremely similar.

I refuse to believe you are actually this dumb and for some reason are just deciding to act so for some reason.

Don't refuse. Believe.

 

[Skifi28]

If this one turns out any good, the other Horizon MMO will be DOA.

It's so fucking predictable, I can see the guy with girlfriend meme already.

I don't disagree, but they can't stop the game from releasing and being good, best case scenario for Sony is forcing minor art changes which don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Is that really worth souring their releasonship with China? I'm no expert, but to me it looks like they're missing the forest for the trees.

 

[Danjin44]

So you do ADMIT they share similarities and that Sony doesn't sue them because they would be stupid to do so? Which I agree and my point was that Sony is hypocritical in doing this. It has nothing to do whether they should sue or not and more with the fact of why now?

They endorsed Palworld so they had no problem with that,They endorsed Dark Souls after being a direct copy of Demon's Souls so no problem with that,no problem with Duskbloods,an exclusive on a competitor platform that shares countless direct similarities to one of their most acclaimed games... Yet a Horizon clone? Fuck that, that's where we draw the line!

My whole point was to showcase Sony's hypocrisy in all this!

Because it was made by same devs.

 

[FeralEcho]

Perphaps, unless you somehow think that Sony could have a case over similarly-implemented Gothic principles of architecture.

Nothing would surprise me in this industry nowadays,even something as ridiculous as that notion. It's so filled with greed and stupidity from all 3 platform holders that it's hard to make a rational assessment.

 

[FeralEcho]

Because it was made by same devs.

Thanks for missing the entirety of my post

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I don't disagree, but they can't stop the game from releasing and being good, best case scenario for Sony is forcing minor art changes which don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Is that really worth souring their releasonship with China? I'm no expert, but to me it looks like they're missing the forest for the trees.

Tencent != China
And you don't let another company blatantly rip from your IPs uncontested. No matter who it is.
All of these companies have shareholders to answer to.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

I

dude, what the fuck is your problem

chill papi, I just don't think Sony has a case here

you clearly disagree

all good, keep defending those mega corps. they'd be lost without you

 

[Astray]

I disagree here, but time will tell.
I think China will out perform "traditional publishers" in terms of revenue in the next 2 to 4 years.

They have the freedom to create the content, they have the talent, and they have the drive...they also have the resources since they can make titles at a fraction of the cost we do.

I hope I am wrong, but this one looks like an easy on to call based on their trajectory in mobile and pc gaming from the last few years.

Tencent are excellent at this yes, but if Sony gets a federal injunction in the US, then Xbox, Steam and Epic will be legally forbidden from carrying the game.

That's a death blow if I've ever seen one.

 

[nial]

Nothing would surprise me in this industry nowadays,even something as ridiculous as that notion. It's so filled with greed and stupidity from all 3 platform holders that it's hard to make a rational assessment.

But okay, there's a reason it hasn't happened yet while an actual blatant copycat like Light of Motiram is actually being targeted at, that came from a failed pitch using the Horizon IP.

 

[Astray]

Even assuming Sony "wins" all they'll probably get is Tencent changing the hair color from red to black in the promotional material or something trivial along these lines to differentiate the games enough. I don't see how this is worth the amount of time and money being poured, they can't really cancel the game so what does Sony really get out of this? Is it just a show of force?

They are asking for damages and a federal injunction.

 

[diffusionx]

I

chill papi, I just don't think Sony has a case here

you clearly disagree

all good, keep defending those mega corps. they'd be lost without you

You're defending Tencent which is a much larger company than Sony

 

[Danjin44]

Thanks for missing the entirety of my post

You saying if Sony suing Tencent making similar game to Horizon they should do same thing with Duskblood.

And I'm telling you that comparison doesn't work. Duskblood is similar to Bloodborne same way Muramasa similar to Odin Sphere, you can tell it's made by the same devs.

 

[LordOcidax]

 

[FalsettoVibe]

(Ironically and shamelessly stollen from the other place)
From page 19 of the document:

Tencent suggested that the pitched game could "maintain [Horizon's] original open world setting" but "introduce[e] Eastern aesthetics" to the Horizon Franchise, and "incorporate[e] gameplay elements such as survival and crafting, pet taming, [multiplayer game modes], etc." The pitch deck included mock-ups of Eastern-inspired designs and settings, including one of Aloy—Horizon's lead female character—standing on the Great Wall of China:

And Tencent asked multiple times........

Say what you want, but this is pretty shameless. And Tencent cannot pretend they are unaware of Horizon. Them asking for permission, getting denied twice, and saying eff it, we'll just steal your homework makes this entirely different than the Palworld thing imo......

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

You're defending Tencent which is a much larger company than Sony

if you read my post history you'll see how much I shit on Tencent and China more generally. I've been called racist because of it.

I fucking hate China and Chinese businesses

My hatred of China doesn't mean Sony has a strong case all of a sudden

 

[bender]

There is a joke here somewhere about Enix doing these designs first with Dragon Quest, but I'm too lazy.

 

[Hero_Select]

This is extremely entertaining to read through and comparing the mental gymnastics of some people saying this is fine but the Palworld one is CoMPLEtELy different

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

This is extremely entertaining to read through and comparing the mental gymnastics of some people saying this is fine but the Palworld one is CoMPLEtELy different

Sony is worse than Nintendo given that Sony is trying to set precedent through copyright which has way broader implications than patent

So Sony is objectively way worse than Nintendo when it comes to this

 

[Killer8]

It's pretty shameless, but i'm more pissed that Horizon of all things is the game that is successful enough to want to rip it off.

 

[Loboxxx]

It's one of the most blatant copies the industry has ever seen. They're literally idea thieves.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

This is extremely entertaining to read through and comparing the mental gymnastics of some people saying this is fine but the Palworld one is CoMPLEtELy different

One game being born as an expansion of an existing IP is a completely different scenario. If you can't see it, I dont know what else you need.

A very different matter is whether or not Sony is screwing up with this one. Tencent offers them to expand the IP in China and they say fuck off? Dumb decision until proven wrong.

Sony is worse than Nintendo given that Sony is trying to set precedent through copyright which has way broader implications than patent

So Sony is objectively way worse than Nintendo when it comes to this

It's the same bullshit. Compete in the market, not in the courtroom.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

It's the same bullshit. Compete in the market, not in the courtroom.

copyright law implications are by far more sweeping than patent law

 

[ReBurn]

Everyone knows that Sony created robots, lens flare, and dystopian futures.

 

[daxgame]

This is extremely entertaining to read through and comparing the mental gymnastics of some people saying this is fine but the Palworld one is CoMPLEtELy different

my thoughts.

 

[FeralEcho]

But okay, there's a reason it hasn't happened yet while an actual blatant copycat like Light of Motiram is actually being targeted at, that came from a failed pitch using the Horizon IP.

The only reason it hasn't happened is because Sony respects From Software enough to not do it not because they couldn't whereas Sony doesn't give too much shit about a Tencent dev. But again...it highlights their hypocrisy as some companies are allowed to do it while others don't.

I do agree that the Horizon rip off is more blatant and egregious but not by too much,like you could definitely make a case for this:

When you have a case for this:

Let's be real here...

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

This looks different enough. At least they fixed the ugly girl.

Now Palworld... they actually stole the 3D model mesh files from Pokemon.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

This is extremely entertaining to read through and comparing the mental gymnastics of some people saying this is fine but the Palworld one is CoMPLEtELy different

Posts like this make zero sense unless you can point out the exact people making those statements.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Posts like this make zero sense unless you can point out the exact people making those statements.

it makes plenty of sense to people who don't have Sony avatars

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Did a little more reading....so it seems like Tencent kinda did to SIE what EA did to SEGA back in the late '80s. They "reverse engineered" a clone, then approached the other party with an offer for an official (I assume special in Tencent's case, similar to what EA wanted from SEGA) licensing agreement. And in the case the other party (SEGA, Sony) declined, they'd go ahead with their own unofficial versions/clones. In case you need context, the EA/SEGA example is in relation to Genesis publishing (and EA getting to manufacture their own carts as a result).

SIE should've looked back in history, and probably did what SEGA did back then. Tencent's a much bigger company than SIE is a subsidiary in Sony, same way EA was a big 3P at the time too important for SEGA to just push aside. It'd also be stupid to upset relations with the biggest native player in a market you as a games platform have stressed as a major territory for market growth, at least before you've fully established your brand in that market.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

it makes plenty of sense to people who don't have Sony avatars

Another brain-dead post from you. You didn't read the document or my post thoroughly. Instead, you call out my avatar as if that is supposed to be a gotcha.
Good job. Your credibility drops every post.

I've tried to ignore your posts in this thread but you just had to reply to me.
Anyway....back to ignoring...lol

 

[violence]

I don't know Sony, this girl's not redhead. She's probably only 25% ginger.

Spoiler: .

 

[IAmRei]

i don't know how to react with this : ))

 

[cormack12]

I honestly think Sony are going for this because it will resemble their GaaS much more than the two mainline games.

It seems more melee focused as well, and very spongey enemies that dont react or stagger at all.

 

[Durin]

It's not just the idea of dino robots, it's the music, the art style, the robo designs, costume designs, the red-haired female protagonist, etc. etc. One of the most blatant clones I"ve ever seen.

It's no doubt derivative, but my point is the most identifiable part of the Horizon games outside tribal red-hair lady is the dinosaur robots...and those robo designs in Horizon are straight up derivative of stuff I'd see in the hard surface sections of 3d art websites. They just made a game out of them, like Warframe did with their techno-organic tenno, and I had seen stuff so close (like dead-on close) on Zbrushcentral for years.

It will be interesting if this goes anywhere, but I've seen mobile companies skirt buy making more overt clones of games.

 

[kruis]

It's no doubt derivative, but my point is the most identifiable part of the Horizon games outside tribal red-hair lady is the dinosaur robots...and those robo designs in Horizon are straight up derivative of stuff I'd see in the hard surface sections of 3d art websites. They just made a game out of them, like Warframe did with their techno-organic tenno, and I had seen stuff so close (like dead-on close) on Zbrushcentral for years.

It will be interesting if this goes anywhere, but I've seen mobile companies skirt buy making more overt clones of games.

Well, how many other game are there where you battle dino robots on a prehistorical looking world of the future?

None of the individual elements in Horizon Zero Dawn were unique, but the sum of those parts absolutely was. And that's what Tenscent is copying.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

BMW, Mercedes, Porsche cant do fuck all against Chinese rip-off lookalikes of their version of cars. They know exactly how far they can go and how much to change to look like a familiar product but not enough ammo to be able to sue them succesfully. The 3 car brands I mentioned all lost in court against China lol. Whats PlayStation gonna do

 

[Kikorin]

We could possibly finally have a good Horizon game tho.

 

[Ebrietas]

The only reason it hasn't happened is because Sony respects From Software enough to not do it not because they couldn't whereas Sony doesn't give too much shit about a Tencent dev. But again...it highlights their hypocrisy as some companies are allowed to do it while others don't.

I do agree that the Horizon rip off is more blatant and egregious but not by too much,like you could definitely make a case for this:

When you have a case for this:

Let's be real here...

Sony wouldn't have any case suing over Duskbloods. Not only are Duskbloods and Bloodborne completely different games in terms of genre/mechanics, the only art style they share is that they are both...dark and gothic looking? And there is a clocktower? A lot of games have gone for that style recently, that is not patented by Sony. Any other similarity you see is simply due to the fact that they are both made by From, so of course there will be some level of asset reuse, similar presentation, etc.

Similarly Dark Souls itself merely resuses the same gameplay mechanics/structure as Demons Souls (which has since been copied by many other devs as well). The art style is just different enough. Sony can't sue them for that any more than Nintendo can sue a dev for making a colorful 2D sidescroller or a kart game. Even then, From had to be really careful not to infringe on any Demons Souls copyright while making what was effectively Demons Souls 2 under a different publisher.

What is happening here with this game is a straight up copy. This goes above and beyond just taking inspiration from another series. This would be like making a platformer with an italian plumber who looks like Mario saving a princess who looks like Peach, and just naming him something other than Mario. And also having similar looking levels with goombas, pipes, etc. You think Nintendo wouldn't have grounds to sue in that scenario?

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Sony has done the impossible, they've gotten me to root for Tencent

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Yep, as I said, shallow similarities. Where exactly do you think both Bloodborne and The Duskbloods take their inspirations, aesthetic-wise, from?
Call me when The Duskbloods has its own equivalent to this:

As we say in Brazil:
Aí é foda

 

[Cre8]

Sony should buy the IP and rename it as Horizon III Forbidden East as PS5 Console Exclusive and tell Herman to go back making a new Killzone game.

 

[violence]

There's other Techno Shaman they could've ripped off but they chose what's already a video game.

 

[diffusionx]

if you read my post history you'll see how much I shit on Tencent and China more generally. I've been called racist because of it.

I fucking hate China and Chinese businesses

My hatred of China doesn't mean Sony has a strong case all of a sudden

you're defending Tencent by misrepresenting Sony's case.

You may not think it is a case but it is not just about "robot dinosaurs" as the lawsuit clearly spells out.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Surprise, surprise every company does this, they will do what it takes to protect their property…..and like I said with Nintendo thread I have no sympathy these guys and Palworld devs who blatantly copy.

Same Nintendo rip off and copy too?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

There's a similar game in development at NCSoft, that would be a revolutionary dumb idea.

So why pick the NCSoft game over Tencent's? I think Tencent has a better track record for these types of GAAS titles anyway, and they're a bigger player in the Chinese (and global) market. Tencent and SIE have already been shadowing one another in other investments for several years; giving Tencent an official license for this would've been a decent way to maybe get something official going in terms of a partnership or just having another Horizon GAAS, then let the market decide which one sticks around (Tencent's or NCSoft's).

Also:



So Tencent tried to make this work not once, but twice, and SIE rejected both times? That's a bold strategy. Again, they'll probably win a way to block Tencent's game from Steam in America & Japan, and some other Western countries (unless Tencent has the studio do heavy graphics revisions), but SIE has literally zero chance to get the game blocked in China, for obvious reasons.

 

[iHaunter]

I mean look at this...

Horizon: Forbidden Chyna

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

It's not like it was that good a game.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

A cheap Chinese copy of a western product. That so isn't like the Chinese.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

you're defending Tencent by misrepresenting Sony's case.

You may not think it is a case but it is not just about "robot dinosaurs" as the lawsuit clearly spells out.

again, me criticizing Sony doesn't mean I'm defending Tencent

you are coming off as a corpo dick rider in your inability to frame it any other way. I think you have trouble beliving some people don't have allegancies to major companies

you defending Sony's scummy tactics in this thread speaks volumes for you.

video game companies trying to set precedent using copyright law is something none of us should cheer for, but Sony fanboys are so blinded by their loyalty they can't see this and instead think Sony is doing the right thing here

 

[Jigsaah]

These guys are making PalWorld blush.

They aren't even trying to hide it. At the risk of sounding somewhat prejudice...is it just common practice for Chinese devs to just copy everybody else?