jamesinclair
Banned
All the undefeated teams should be in the top 10
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CFB Week 9: Humble Pie, Driskel, 280,000 defrees, Driskel, riots, and more Driskel
- Thread starter Frustrated_Grunt
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xD
Randolph Freelander
Member
Nobody close enough in front of them lost, and they only beat Rutgers. Meanwhile, a team in their rearview mirror beat a top 3 opponent. LSU was going to jump, it was just a question of how much.
That's an irrational expectation. Ole Miss lost a close game on the road to a ranked opponent. Why anyone would expect them to go from 3 to (minimum) 11 is beyond me. Meanwhile, of course Auburn moves up. A team in front of them lost, and who's going to jump them?
8 spots is a lot to jump for beating Bo Wallace and an overrated Ole Miss offense especially for a team with 2 losses.
Randolph Freelander
Member
What can I say, SEC bias, though maybe Nebraska would get similar favorable treatment if they were beating ranked opponents. It's hard to say, since their non-conference schedule was weak and their Big Ten schedule isn't doing them any favors.
I know youre the top or in the top 3 biggest supporters of small schools, But do you really think Marshal deserves to be in the top 10. It is interesting they are gaining basically nothing in votes though.
Also yesterday really sucked. Thankfully I was downtown at the bars to drown my sorrows.
Let's be honest, though; how impressive is that really? Tech's terrible defense aside, they were still throwing deep (and even ran a flea flicker) when their lead was already pretty much insurmountable.
Remember back when everybody was impressed by Arkansas' offensive numbers after they played Tech back in week 3?
theprodigy
Member
hopefully the SEC kills each other to the point where at best there's two 1-loss teams (or Mississippi State could run the table while everyone else has 2+ losses, this also works)
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Blame Craig James.
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
Just accept it. The top 4 is going to be Ole Miss, Miss St, Auburn, and Alabama. We'll get rematches of the Iron Bowl and Egg Bowl in the semifinals.
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
I suppose we can allow a Playoff Bowl Buster into the mix.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Ole Miss losing to LSU is a shame, though. SEC could have had 3 teams in the playoff if it played out perfectly. Now they'll have to settle for 2.
Battlezone
Member
11 picks and 3 MOV wins this week. Might be my best week ever.
I wonder, since we're all assuming SECSECSEC is getting two teams in, if they'll get paired off in the semi, or if the committee will just seed them however, and accept the possibility of an all-SEC final? I know in the NCAA basketball tourney, they try to avoid conference rematches early in the bracket. I wonder if that thought process will come into play here.
I wonder, since we're all assuming SECSECSEC is getting two teams in, if they'll get paired off in the semi, or if the committee will just seed them however, and accept the possibility of an all-SEC final? I know in the NCAA basketball tourney, they try to avoid conference rematches early in the bracket. I wonder if that thought process will come into play here.
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
I feel your frustration. ASU beats (now) 5-3 Washington on the road, Arizona beats (now 2-5) WSU on the road and then jumps ahead of ASU in the rankings.
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
Shoot. I was looking up game times to plan the next weekend and forgot we have a bye week.
I estimate the chances this is real at 1%. Still funny though.
I was literally expecting LSU to vault into the top 5
But in my honest opinion: most SEC teams are the toughest. I'm definitely not as familiar with or knowledgeable about college football as most of the other people here, but I've always just kind of sensed a different level of football when an SEC team plays.
And no, I don't work for ESPN =p
EDIT: That's why I love the idea of the playoff. But if they're all filled with SEC teams, that REALLY defeats the whole purpose, IMO (or at least the underlying purposes)
Randolph Freelander
Member
The purpose is to get the top 4. If that's 2 or 3 SEC teams, then so be it.
On that point, I was listening to ESPN radio yesterday while running some errands, and it sort of amazed me as I listened to one of their guys argue the issue from what you think would be mutually exclusive vantage points. They were talking about the perception of SEC bias with the conference dominating the top of the polls, and the guy went on about how the computers were all in agreement about the SEC with Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Auburn, and Alabama at the top of the rankings and Georgia, as well. Take away the human element and SEC still dominates. Then a caller called in and complained about the human polls being too heavily influenced by preseason polls, a point of view the particular host said was literally brain dead and anyone too married to the preseason poll shouldn't have the right to vote, but also once again cited the computer polls to validate the human rankings.
And then a segment or two later, the very same guy said it would be an outrage if one conference got more than one team in the playoff, since the regular season has to "mean something," (and don't even get dude started on expanding the playoff to 8 teams).
I'm sorry... what? You just get through defending the SEC dominating the top of the rankings, but you wouldn't want the SEC dominating the playoff? Really? If we're not looking for the top 4, exactly why are we doing this?
Give me the top 4. I don't care if they're from the same conference, same division, or if the entirety of the playoff is composed of teams from 2 adjacent states in the deep south. If they're the best, put them in. I don't think it's going to work out that way, of course, as I think teams with 2 losses will inevitably be on the outside looking in and with the Ole Miss loss, no more than 2 SEC teams can finish with 1 loss or fewer (after the CCG).
BertramCooper
Banned
This playoff is going to be a disaster. People are going to turn on it even quicker than they turned on the BCS.
You need at least 8 teams for a satisfactory playoff.
You need at least 8 teams for a satisfactory playoff.
The main reason I want the 4 teams to come from different conferences is that, through your standard conference championship system, you've already "proven" who the best team in that conference is, using actual games and mathematical standings. If, say, Mississippi State wins the SEC, then they have already done, on the field with actual standings, what it takes to be given a trophy over all other SEC teams. They have not, however, proven in any actual standings that they are better than the Pac-12 champion, the Big XII champion, etc.
That's why, through pretty much the whole BCS era, I thought you should have had to win your conference to be eligible for the MNC game, whether voters actually thought you were the best team or not. Sometimes a "lesser" team does beat a "better" team in a CCG (see Kansas getting into the Big XII CCG over Missouri in 2007, for example), but those are the breaks.
That's also why I think the 8 team playoff is the way to go. That would give you a system kind of like the professional leagues of various sports; conference champions (from at least the P5) would get in automatically, like Division champs do in the NFL then you have space to add some Wildcard teams on top of that.
theprodigy
Member
no, Missouri beat Kansas, won the Big 12 North, then lost to Oklahoma again in the CCG, thus screwing them out of a BCS bowl
but point taken, including the 8 team playoff (each P5 champ, top champ from the rest, 2 wild cards)
I knew something sounded wrong about that as I was typing it but didn't bother to fact check.
The real example I was thinking of, and should have used but didn't because of the ultimate outcome, was how I think it's BS that LSU had to play Alabama again in the MNC for the 2011 season (even though I personally thought Alabama was the better team that season).
Don't get it done in the regular season and you shouldn't move on IMO.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Forget conference champs in a 4 team playoff. One would be left out by default, so that's already a value judgment, why not make more. I'm almost OK with automatic entries for all P5 champs if there are 8 teams, but even then, just take the top 8. If a conference is a dumpster fire, that conference should not have mediocrity rewarded.
If I have Alabama and Auburn at 13-0 and 11-1, respectively, and they're up against a 11-2 or 10-3 "champ" of the ACC, why am I going to favor the ACC champion over Auburn? If the best of the Big Ten is ranked #11 at the end of the season, why should they be in a top 4? Go out on the field. People have eyes, they can see which teams are good and which ones aren't, and the computers can help validate that, just in case there are doubts. If a P5 conference champ isn't better than another conference's 2nd or 3rd place team, leave them out.
Yep. 4 is too small, and 16 is too big. There's pretty much never a time when #16 has a claim unless its that year's mid-major that went undefeated.
Not really a fan of AQ bids for power conferences. If a non-SEC major conference team ha a good season, they usually will land in the top 8.
Exactly. Otherwise, the playoff system could just turn into round robin event (after conference championships). "You've already proven yourself....now do it again".
I would favor the idea of the playoff system being composed of the top teams of the 4 highest represented conferences (AP poll).
For example: if the regular season were to end today, it would be:
1. Mississippi State (SEC)
2. Florida State (ACC)
3. Oregon (Pac 12)
4. Notre Dame (FBS Independents)
This way, even though the playoff slots are few, it's theoretically expanded because only one conference can be represented.
(edited to make more sense, lol)
perfectchaos007
Member
We need at least 2 play in games. 5 conference champions + the highest rated FBS independent OR mid major will get playoff bids. The top 2 ranked teams will get automatic berths to the semi finals. Seeds 3-6 will have to play a QF round.
Due to conferences settling out a champion, the committee's only job would be to decide which mid-major/Independent team gets in.
Now, if you want to make it an even 8 teams, that would open up 2 at-large bids which would make the committee more relevant and wouldn't render OOC games totally useless.
devildog820
Member
Ugh, the bad old days of ND having more power than they should.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Oh gracious, there's nothing that would ruin the playoff and bring ridicule faster than purposefully not including the top 4, giving conference champs and highest ranked mid majors inclusion because "fairness." Take the top 4 (or top 8), as it's the easiest, most equatable thing to do. I don't care if the ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, Pac 12, or SEC has hurt feelings in any given year. If their champ isn't good enough, tough cookies.
I'm like the one guy here that will purposefully watch ACC games over top 5 matchups in other conferences. I recall watching Georgia and Georgia Tech last year when everyone else was watching Alabama and Auburn (I think those two games overlapped... if not GT/UGA, it was another one I was watching instead of the Iron Bowl). Heck, I was watching Clemson and Syracuse last night when y'all were watching LSU and Ole Miss. I love me some ACC. But there have been plenty of years when the ACC champion hasn't been any good. Between Florida State's downturn over a decade ago and and the resurgence of the past couple of years, do you recall just how bad the ACC was? How terrible it fared in BCS games? Wasn't the mark something like 2-11 or 2-12 or some such horrible statistic? I want to see that conference's champ automatically in some playoff? There were years people joked they shouldn't even be automatically in a (relatively) meaningless BCS bowl!
I love the ACC, but forget that. Be top 4 (or top 8, if expanded). If you're not there, try harder next year.
I'm like the one guy here that will purposefully watch ACC games over top 5 matchups in other conferences. I recall watching Georgia and Georgia Tech last year when everyone else was watching Alabama and Auburn (I think those two games overlapped... if not GT/UGA, it was another one I was watching instead of the Iron Bowl). Heck, I was watching Clemson and Syracuse last night when y'all were watching LSU and Ole Miss. I love me some ACC. But there have been plenty of years when the ACC champion hasn't been any good. Between Florida State's downturn over a decade ago and and the resurgence of the past couple of years, do you recall just how bad the ACC was? How terrible it fared in BCS games? Wasn't the mark something like 2-11 or 2-12 or some such horrible statistic? I want to see that conference's champ automatically in some playoff? There were years people joked they shouldn't even be automatically in a (relatively) meaningless BCS bowl!
I love the ACC, but forget that. Be top 4 (or top 8, if expanded). If you're not there, try harder next year.
perfectchaos007
Member
It works well for NCAA basketball, but they have a lot more spots to give. I still think every P5 conference champ should get in with a bracket of 8 or more.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Big East isn't the only conference to produce shit tier BCS bowl participants. Besides, Big East never really sent anyone to the MNC after Miami left. And they were competitive and actually won.
zyxwvu4321
Member
Hey now, the Big East was 8-7 in the BCS (5-5 without Miami and VT) plus the American went 1-0. The problem was that anytime somebody from the BE not named WVU or Louisville played, it was a goddamn abomination.
Right, but that's my point: a playoff spot shouldn't be wasted on a bad team simply because they won a historically successful conference.
A field of 8 is still too small for that. Giving a bid to the MEAC champion or whoever might screw a decent team, but it doesn't screw a top 10 team.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Correct. There's something like 31 automatic bids and 37 at large slots in college basketball. (New conferences seemingly arise every year, so the actual numbers may differ.) Given that some of the automatics would have made the field anyway, you're looking at the top 40-45 being in the tournament, with single-bid AQ schools filling out the rest. It's a much different argument for the 46th place team maybe being left out of a 68 team field versus a 3rd or 4th best team being left out of an 8 team field. The middle of the pack ACC school that was left out of the NCAA tournament (historically: Virginia Tech -- sorry, Seth Greenberg) was never going to win the tournament anyway. I think I like the SEC 2nd place team's chances a bit better than that in a college football playoff.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I was just getting at that the ACC should be the example due to their horrific performance in BCS level games.
Big East/American ultimately held their own in big games.
I'm of the idea that it should be the champions of the Power 5 plus an at large(another P5 contender, mid-major, independent). I do see the downside of a P5 champion simply being awful like it was with the Big East and ACC. You aren't going to get a perfect system, but I think you'd want a system where it it's screwing over deserving teams as little as possible.
JJDinomite
Banned
How much longer til Florida State is in the SEC?
Fair enough. Big East just stood out to me because it seemed to have the largest disparities between top and bottom in recent memory.
Lol, why would we ever do that.
It turns out being a high profile team in a weak conference works pretty well for us.
We get the attention of a top tier SEC team with a quarter of the competition.
JJDinomite
Banned
Florida State doesn't deserve to be in the playoff because it's not in the SEC.
Selection committee is going to come back and tell us the SEC regular season was the playoff.
Jesus Christ. There was never a season in the BCS where you could make an intellectually honest argument that there were maybe more than 4 teams that might be the best in the country. All but four seasons, it was pretty fucking clear at the end who the two best teams in the country were.
8 team playoff is my limit. Anything beyond that, and we'll just have Ohio State, USC, Bama, and Oklahoma automatically make it every single season.
Football is an 11-on-11 game with huge rosters where depth will absolutely be challenged and makes a huge difference throughout the season.
8 team playoff is my limit. Anything beyond that, and we'll just have Ohio State, USC, Bama, and Oklahoma automatically make it every single season.
Why are you comparing two completely different sports? It works in basketball because it's a 5-on-5 game with small rosters where one or two players can have an outsized impact on your team.
Football is an 11-on-11 game with huge rosters where depth will absolutely be challenged and makes a huge difference throughout the season.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I would have loved to see 3 SECW teams go 11-1 (prior to the CCG), with the top 3 going 1-1 against each other. Good luck to any "traditionalist" who wants only a conference champ. Sure, one of those teams will win a tiebreaker and go to the CCG, but come on.
Stupid Ole Miss had to go and ruin it, however.
(It would have been Ole Miss > Miss State, Auburn > Ole Miss, Miss State > Auburn OR Ole Miss > Alabama, Alabama > Miss State, Miss State > Ole Miss, with those teams obviously winning against everybody else [games in italics already happened])
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