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[King_Moc]

Well, any depiction of Mohammad is considered to be blasphemous from an Islamic perspective. It's not hard to see why an "ordinary British Muslim" who seemingly takes his religion seriously would find the cartoons unacceptable. The important thing to note is that they all condemned the attacks. If they went around showing support for what happened, then that would be an issue.

The key phrase was "brought it upon themselves". That's not a healthy attitude to have.

 

[Faith]

It was very worrying to hear a number of interviews with "ordinary British muslims" on Radio 4's Today programme. Of course they all condemned what went on in Paris, but one said he loved the prophet more than he did his own family and all said that what the cartoonists had done was unacceptable and that they "brought it upon themselves".

Isn't that how religions people normally talk?

 

[Lucky_Se7enty]

The fact that a lot of them still don't get that the cartoons were only targeting radical islam and are just focusing on "depicting the prophet is wrong" is extremely worrying.

i would not hold the first half of your sentence against them, i doubt they had seen the cartoon or even told what was depicted.

 

[Frodo]

Well, any depiction of Mohammad is considered to be blasphemous from an Islamic perspective. It's not hard to see why an "ordinary British Muslim" who seemingly takes his religion seriously would find the cartoons unacceptable. The important thing to note is that they all condemned the attacks. If they went around showing support for what happened, then that would be an issue.

Well, look around and see how many people mock Christianity in blasphemous ways. And even though some people are offended by it, the world still keeps spinning on like nothing has happened. Look at Madonna. She is still alive, and still criticising the church for over 30 years. Christ is often portrait in blasphemous (if you want to use that world) frequently. I have plenty of practising Christian/Catholic friends and if, for example, I post a image like this on Facebook (which I actually did), people will either not [Like] it, or if they are really really offended they will unfriend me. I don't have to fear if extremists will arson my house or if I will be violently targeted later on. None of my very, very, VERY Catholics aunts stopped talking to me because I posted that. But enough with silly examples and comparisons. My point is:

In the end, these are all religions. Religions you are not obliged to comply with, if you don't believe in them. Mainly because if you had to comply to every rule of every religion to not offend anyone it probably wouldn't be possible to live. We live in a secular state (speaking for myself) and I would like if it would remain secular. I agree there is little to no point in posting some of the images of the prophet that have been posted (and my example might be too mild compared to a few of those drawings), but then again, they are trying to de-sensitise it. I respect everyone's right to practice their faith, but they have to respect my right to not practice it as well. But it is extremely scary that some people today, with access to information and growing up in developed countries like the UK, still think that Charlie Hebdo brought it upon themselves, and even scarier to think that some people would actually say that they deserved it, because you have more empathy for your imaginary friend than for other (human) people.

 

[G.O.O.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't depictions of the prophet forbidden because you shouldn't worship a picture, thus leaving out mockery and satire ?

 

[Poltergust]

I'm a bit confused about what's going on. Was the terrorist(s?) in that video the same one that attacked Charlie Hebdo?

 

[UTIII]

I've not had a conversation with any Muslim that thinks they brought it upon themselves.

Pretty much everyone I've talked too are quite pissed actually and are in disgust.

 

[Joni]

I'm a bit confused about what's going on. Was the terrorist(s?) in that video the same one that attacked Charlie Hebdo?

He might have been the third participant who did not enter the building. He is certainly the guy that killed the cop on the second day as a distraction and/or second offensive.

 

[Poltergust]

He might have been the third participant who did not enter the building. He is certainly the guy that killed the cop on the second day as a distraction and/or second offensive.

That's unfortunate if he was a participant. If only the police acted quicker a few days ago, then the deaths of those hostages could've been avoided. =/

 

[Alx]

I'm a bit confused about what's going on. Was the terrorist(s?) in that video the same one that attacked Charlie Hebdo?

No, but he was in touch with them before the attacks at Charlie Hebdo to synchronize his own.
Two Kouachi brothers : killed 12 people at Charlie Hebdo, then fled, hid in an industrial area, got shot when they tried to storm out.
Coulibaly : shot a policewoman in the back the morning after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, entered a kosher grocery when the brothers got cornered and killed 4 more people there, asked for the release of the brothers, then was killed when the police raided the place at the same time the two brothers were killed.

 

[Poltergust]

No, but he was in touch with them before the attacks at Charlie Hebdo to synchronize his own.
Two Kouachi brothers : killed 12 people at Charlie Hebdo, then fled, hid in an industrial area, got shot when they tried to storm out.
Coulibaly : shot a policewoman in the back the morning after the Charlie Hebdo attacks, entered a kosher grocery when the brothers got cornered and killed 4 more people there, asked for the release of the brothers, then was killed when the police raided the place at the same time the two brothers were killed.

So as far as we can tell, the terrorist threat is over then?

Too bad they couldn't catch anyone alive, but I guess that would be borderline impossible without casualties.

 

[vityaz]

As I understand it...

About depicting Mohammad... it's not in the Koran, it's a tradition (hadith literature). So it's not the word of God, as muslims see it. Mohammad did not want people to depict him, in fear of people worshipping him the Prophet (or something else), instead of Allah.

I'm not too familiar with how all muslims really view the hadiths and what importance they give them, but they are not the Koran. IMO they should, in time (at least), be ready to accept the Prophet satire.

A reason for why muslims can't ignore certain parts of the Koran btw ("and change their ways like christians"), is because it is supposed to be the exact message of Allah. It was written down exactly like it was said (via the angel Gabriel). This is why you got students reading or repeating the Koran in the original language, if you translate it you will change the word of Allah. Doesn't change the fact that there are translations though.

 

[Ensirius]

So as far as we can tell, the terrorist threat is over then?

Too bad they couldn't catch anyone alive, but I guess that would be borderline impossible without casualties.

It was better to put a bullet in theirs heads and for it to be over with. A trial with them spouting nonsense propaganda wouldn't have helped. Plus your point on it being dangerous for the hostages.

 

[Joni]

That's unfortunate if he was a participant. If only the police acted quicker a few days

To be fair, if he was the theoretical getaway driver, they split up quite fast , they never had a real indication of his presence and the two brothers were rampaging through the city which lead them to amongst other things executing the cop and driving over the pedastrian.

So as far as we can tell, the terrorist threat is over then?

Too bad they couldn't catch anyone alive, but I guess that would be borderline impossible without casualties.

They have like 10 people in custody who could help getting answers.

 

[Alx]

So as far as we can tell, the terrorist threat is over then?

Too bad they couldn't catch anyone alive, but I guess that would be borderline impossible without casualties.

Yeah as far as we know it's over. The police is still in search of Coulibaly's girlfriend, but it doesn't seem she's had an active part in the attacks themselves. But she probably knows a lot.

Nice picture on Le Monde main page by the way.

 

[Mac_Lane]

That video is great :

http://t.co/yoyZmb1Jdg

Shows the creative process that led to the controversial 2006 Charlie Hebdo cover. Three of the people in that video (Cabu, Wolinski and Tignous) were killed on Wednesday.

 

[fanboi]

It was better to put a bullet in theirs heads and for it to be over with. A trial with them spouting nonsense propaganda wouldn't have helped. Plus your point on it being dangerous for the hostages.

No, it is never better to put a bullet in someones head.

Justice, lawful justice, is better, since then we could handle them in a modern way and not let them become martyrs.

 

[Naked Snake]

I've not had a conversation with any Muslim that thinks they brought it upon themselves.

Pretty much everyone I've talked too are quite pissed actually and are in disgust.

You should talk to my family or many of my Facebook friends

 

[UTIII]

Only talked to my family and friends here in the UK, we get together on Fridays and quite frankly, and happy to say, was a bit of a somber day rather than the usual happiness of being together.

Whilst some found the cartoons offensive they appreciate we are a free nation and with it comes freedom of speech for all people.

 

[Frodo]

As I understand it...

About depicting Mohammad... it's not in the Koran, it's a tradition (hadith literature). So it's not the word of God, as muslims see it. Mohammad did not want people to depict him, in fear of people worshipping him the Prophet (or something else), instead of Allah.

I'm not too familiar with how all muslims really view the hadiths and what importance they give them, but they are not the Koran. IMO they should, in time (at least), be ready to accept the Prophet satire.

A reason for why muslims can't ignore certain parts of the Koran btw ("and change their ways like christians"), is because it is supposed to be the exact message of Allah. It was written down exactly like it was said (via the angel Gabriel). This is why you got students reading or repeating the Koran in the original language, if you translate it you will change the word of Allah. Doesn't change the fact that there are translations though.

Which brings an extra dose of irony to this week's events.

 

[Zaph]

That video is great :

http://t.co/yoyZmb1Jdg

Shows the creative process that led to the controversial 2006 Charlie Hebdo cover. Three of the people in that video (Cabu, Wolinski and Tignous) were killed on Wednesday.

Was posted earlier, but yeah, great vid.

That last line is brutal.

 

[Nozem]

No, it is never better to put a bullet in someones head.

Justice, lawful justice, is better, since then we could handle them in a modern way and not let them become martyrs.

It is when he might be wearing a suicide vest and is close to pressing the button though.

 

[Wanchan]

A reason for why muslims can't ignore certain parts of the Koran btw ("and change their ways like christians"), is because it is supposed to be the exact message of Allah. It was written down exactly like it was said (via the angel Gabriel).

If it was, then why is there many differents versions of the Koran/Qur'an?

 

[fanboi]

It is when he might be wearing a suicide vest and is close to pressing the button though.

I am talking if it is possible to take them alive or kill them then it is Always better to take them alive.

Of course there will always be circumstances where you might not have a choice and have to think of the saftey of yourself and/or hostages.

But if you have a choice, then alive is always better.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I was subscribed to this guy for some reason. Sometimes you just want to be able to punch someone over the internet. Sure dude, concealed carry would have helped the situation and society as a whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vf2r7-xTI

 

[Raist]

If it was, then why is there many differents versions of the Koran/Qur'an?

Huh there aren't. At least not anymore. One "official" version was made in the mid-7th century. Other versions were destroyed. Of course, to which extent this version was the "true" one (if there were any) is unclear, since it was compiled from many different parts to begin with.

 

[Jb]

I was subscribed to this guy for some reason. Sometimes you just want to be able to punch someone over the internet. Sure dude, concealed carry would have helped the situation and society as a whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vf2r7-xTI

Don't you see? None of this would have happened if everyone had been wearing concealed handguns. And if the cops had Famas and SWAT gear.
Oh the fuckers had a RPG? Well, uh....

Jackass.

 

[M3d10n]

Which brings an extra dose of irony to this week's events.

Yep, we have people killing to avenge the honor of a prophet that wanted people to focus solely on God, to the point of forbidding depictions of himself to discourage people from glorifying him.

 

[King_Moc]

I was subscribed to this guy for some reason. Sometimes you just want to be able to punch someone over the internet. Sure dude, concealed carry would have helped the situation and society as a whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vf2r7-xTI

Yeah, these people are fucking mental. Sure, these 12 people would have had more of a chance, but what about everyone else in the country getting shot over petty arguments? 11,000 deaths from firearms in 2011 in the USA. Yes, that's exactly what France needs. Morons.

 

[Orthogonal]

video of the assault (uncensored)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

Looks like the RAID even threw a grenade inside.

Unreal. I can't imagine what made the guy think it was a good idea to run out there like that. He got destroyed.

 

[Chariot]

Unreal. I can't imagine what made the guy think it was a good idea to run out there like that. He got destroyed.

Like someone suggested: maybe the grenade.

 

[BaronLundi]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

 

[G.O.O.]

Damn you baron, was about to post this

 

[Chariot]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

Wow, respect for quick thinking if true. Did he stay outside?

 

[Koren]

About depicting Mohammad... it's not in the Koran, it's a tradition (hadith literature). So it's not the word of God, as muslims see it. Mohammad did not want people to depict him, in fear of people worshipping him the Prophet (or something else), instead of Allah.

I'd also add that it's a recent tradition, since they started forbidding the images of the prophet in the XVI-XVII e century.

There's PLENTLY of representation of Mahomet in Iran and Irak, for example.

 

[Orthogonal]

Like someone suggested: maybe the grenade.

Had to watch again, it was so fast. It was like a completely involuntary reaction to get away from the blast and it took him right into a wall of bullets.

 

[kamorra]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

A true hero.

 

[vityaz]

If it was, then why is there many differents versions of the Koran/Qur'an?

Because people still want to read/sell it I guess. It is still "wrong", though.

edit: I'm guessing you are talking about translations. I don't know of other "versions" other than that.

 

[G.O.O.]

Wow, respect for quick thinking if true. Did he stay outside?

yes

 

[Chariot]

yes

Holy hell. Yes. Super fucking respect. Another big hero.

 

[Palette Swap]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

A true hero.

 

[Odah]

Hope they give him a medal or something

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Makes no sense considering Russia has their own problems with Islamic extremism. Not like the US is doing this to undermine Russia or one of their allies. Makes no sense to make this assertion from their standpoint.

Russian propaganda deliberately makes no sense and aims to confuse everyone because confused people don't unite and oppose their shitty regime.

 

[marc^o^]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

He even left his place. Hero.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this employee of the Kosher supermarket, who happens to be a muslim from Mali, apparently saved 15 people by hiding them it the store refrigerator, including a 1 month old baby.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...rie-a-cache-des-otages-10-01-2015-4435025.php

Strange, the article first says 6 people and then 15 people.

In any case, wow, huge respect. He didn't even get in the refrigerator himself, he hid the people in there and said "vous restez calmes là, moi je vais sortir" ("You stay calm in there, I'm going upstairs").

I had read some reports of that store refrigerator yesterday but wondered how a baby could survive in it (or anyone for so long, for that matter). I have the answer now; this employee turned the cooling off.

 

[maquiladora]

Makes no sense considering Russia has their own problems with Islamic extremism. Not like the US is doing this to undermine Russia or one of their allies. Makes no sense to make this assertion from their standpoint.

It doesn't make sense in the real world, but when has Russian propaganda made sense recently? They roll hundreds of tanks into Ukraine in front of cameras and just say "nope, that's not us", exploiting the "niceness" of Western media to report "Ok. Russian government denies involvement..." regardless of what the reality actually is.

The reason why they are blaming the US for this is because it serves the broader agenda of painting the US and EU in as negative a light as possible to the population at the moment.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Interesting interview of one of the remaining caricaturist of Charlie Hebdo (in french though...).

In a nutshell: he's a bit dismaid at what people push Charlie to be (especially considering the next paper on Wednesday), aas Charlie Hebdo was fighting against symbolisms, and they now became (or were made to be) a symbol themselves.

I'm beginning to wonder what they'll do for their cover. Maybe something like this, or a mock on the march planned tomorrow... ?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Interesting interview of one of the remaining caricaturist of Charlie Hebdo (in french though...).

In a nutshell: he's a bit dismaid at what people push Charlie to be (especially considering the next paper on Wednesday), aas Charlie Hebdo was fighting against symbolisms, and they now became (or were made to be) a symbol themselves.

I'm beginning to wonder what they'll do for their cover. Maybe something like this, or a mock on the march planned tomorrow... ?

It's ironic but it's good irony IMO, nothing wrong with it. Charlie Hebdo was mocking everyone, and that was fine. Now everyone is doing the opposite of mocking Charlie Hebdo, and that's fine too. Freedom of speech.

 

[R_thanatos]

Man , this morning and nothing than grim news now that we know more about those "incidents"

The hostage situation was not only that , both places were riggued with explosives ready to blow.


And there was so many reports of retaliations against muslism last night ...hopefully we will be able to pass thourght this situation ASAP...

 

[ComputerMKII]

One of the hostages in the kosher grocery got killed after he grabbed a gun that Amedy Coulibaly had left on the counter because it got jammed after the first shootout. The weapon didn't work. The terrorist then turned around and shot at him. He died on the spot. (Source: France Info)

I guess it's too late to say "don't be reckless"