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[DECK'ARD]

I see now why people put these sorts of things on their own sites rather than attempting discussion at the same time as research.

I will do that as well, although it only seems to have become a problem with the 3rd summary which left the confines of GAF.

 

[Sage00]

Careful, if I was Lord McAlpine I could sue you for that.

I forgot to mention that yon Cyclops fellow is clearly a Tory apologist tool, if that makes it up to you.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

As with the others i appreciate all the work you are putting into your posts, info gathering and summaries. I can appreciate you not wanting to blindly put everything into a summary until you are as sure as you can be about it.

I do wish there were more sources for some of this information though given the length of time since the events occurred and the previous exercises in evidential destruction. With that and the deaths of several witnesses it's not entirely surprising that corroborating information is so hard to find.

I hope you keep this thread going, even though it's a horrible scenario you're keeping it in our minds and not letting it slip away again.

 

[DECK'ARD]

As with the others i appreciate all the work you are putting into your posts, info gathering and summaries. I can appreciate you not wanting to blindly put everything into a summary until you are as sure as you can be about it.

I do wish there were more sources for some of this information though given the length of time since the events occurred and the previous exercises in evidential destruction. With that and the deaths of several witnesses it's not entirely surprising that corroborating information is so hard to find.

I hope you keep this thread going, even though it's a horrible scenario you're keeping it in our minds and not letting it slip away again.

It's quite lucky we have as much as we do actually, things like that Usenet post by Simon Regan.

The Internet has preserved an awful lot, I'm sure there is more out there for everything in the summary and anyone who researches any of the individual sections should post anything new that they find.

But with it jumping from one bit to the next so quickly I think it's important to sum up each new area as quickly as possible when there is enough to support it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The Jersey child abuse scandal especially is a complete mess, so I left most of it out even the most damning claims as I couldn't find a clear picture of what exactly had gone on at all.

 

[phisheep]

Hello!

Proof is actually buried away on the BBC site that he DIDN'T name Lord McAlpine:

Ah, now this is where my post #859 comes into play.

There were three "Lord McAlpines": Alastair (life Peer from 1984), Edwin (his father) (hereditary Baronet from 1983, life Peer from 1980, died 1990), and Tom (his uncle, hereditary baronet, died 1983).

Any of the three of them could have been referred to (but only two of them strictly correctly) as "Lord McAlpine" by the police. Two of them tory politicians.

And that's quite apart from cousin Jimmie.

It's quite possible that Scallywag picked the wrong one.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Ah, now this is where my post #859 comes into play.

There were three "Lord McAlpines": Alastair (life Peer from 1984), Edwin (his father) (hereditary Baronet from 1983, life Peer from 1980, died 1990), and Tom (his uncle, hereditary baronet, died 1983).

Any of the three of them could have been referred to (but only two of them strictly correctly) as "Lord McAlpine" by the police. Two of them tory politicians.

And that's quite apart from cousin Jimmie.

It's quite possible that Scallywag picked the wrong one.

Yes, this is very interesting.

The other thing being that neither Lord McAlpine nor anyone else directly accused by Scallywag sued in 1994. Unlike in 2012 where he has sued multiple people over not being directly accused.

The direct accusations in 1994 being far more serious, and indeed graphic. It's also hard to understand the interviews he has given where he has said this has ruined his life when he had already faced much worse 18 years ago.

Edit: There's also the thing about the boys being bussed to 2 of the McAlpine family homes to do work, Jimmie's and ... ? Jimmie has been named separately from Messham, I believe one of Messham's statements refers to the accused being dead at that point which your posts means we have a few possibilities now as well as Jimmie.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Also:

The accuser, a former care home resident, unreservedly apologised, stating that as soon as he saw a photograph of McAlpine he realised that he had been mistaken

This doesn't add up because the Scallywag article that we know Messham was a source for was full of photos of him. Also he didn't look for a photo of his abuser in 30 years? And is apologising for an accusation he didn't make.

Lord McAlpine's Wikipedia page which that is from makes no mention of Scallywag of course.

This is all very confusing, I feel sorry for any of the victims on the receiving end of cross-examination. Simon Regan's letter regarding the Waterhouse inquiry spoke of that in particular.

Come to think of it, he was abused for 2 years in a care home by someone outside it. Why would it just be one visitor over those 2 years?

He is saying that he was shown a photo of his abuser who was named as Lord McAlpine to him by police which was actually Jimmy Mcalpine. Messham also specifically named him as a former top Tory poltician.



They didn't name him specifically on Newsnight but were going to as of 6 hours before (their journos tweeted as such) but were either injuncted or more likely the Lawyers got involved.

From this I'd conclude the BBC got lent on, ran the thing anyway but for a certain desired outcome. Sally Bercow as a 3rd person filling in the gap that now existed, conveniently being wife to the Speaker of the House Of Commons.

psisheep, if he had actually named him would suing the BBC have involved more? Because that situation would be parallel to 1994 when he didn't sue.

As a fellow resident of the home was abused by Jimmie I think Messham would have known the difference by now.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Ok, massive contradiction here:

http://www.channel4.com/news/photographs-of-abuse-was-handed-to-police

He told Channel 4 News that he broke into the flat of one of his abusers to steal photographs of the abuse he endured, but that nothing was done after he handed them into the police.

Mr Messham was 16 when he allegedly entered the flat in Wrexham in 1979. "I broke in knowing he was away, and I found all these photographs and I handed them to the police - and out of that two people got prosecuted, and one got a caution and that was it.

"And what was on those pictures was unbelievable, it doesn't make sense. The police do admit there were pictures, but not to the extent I say .... crazy."

The photos captured lots of men raping boys, including the prominent Conservative figure he accuses of abusing him, Mr Messham alleges. He says he could see men's faces clearly, but the police said they could not identify the men from the pictures.

These photos are confirmed to have existed, and because of a court order were destroyed.

Not only was there a photo of the man concerned before, he handed it into police along with all the others. Why would the police have to show him a photo when he was showing them photos?

The care homes being alleged by Scallywag to have been used for the production and sale of child pornography through a company in Copenhagen.

16 was when Messham was released from the care home which ties up with what Simon Regan said.

The whole Cameron/McAlpine/BBC trifecta seems very dodgy now, and supports the set-up theory I already suspected. You could even argue the BBC was never lent on either and never intended to name him just Tweet about it to set people's expectations which Sally Bercow then did. Also on Twitter, leading to a frenzy of Twitter writs.

Either way the BBC was the pawn here.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Sorry for the multiple posts but we are back in plain horrible territory again and something I had missed. I also want to keep things posted as we go along to be able to call back individual posts if required.

In the section titled fate of some of the victims in Update #2, R4 and R10 were directly linked. They were brothers.

R4 died in the arson attack in Brighton in 1992, verdict unlawful killing. R10 survived and tried to get them to investigate further and reopen the case. They didn't. All these details can be got from the Brighton article:

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/arson-cover-up-north-wales-child-abuse.html

In January 1995 R10 gave evidence in the trial of John Allen, head of the children's home company in North Wales. Allen is Mr X in the Scallywag article from 1994, and he was convicted. The person referred to as Paul in the Scallywag article also lived in Brighton in a flat paid for by Allen. Paul was said to have identified Lord McAlpine from 4 photos and made a sworn affidavit to this effect. Scallywag said they had that sworn affidavit, and Paul went to the police about it with the photos. You can read about that here:

http://i.imgur.com/sEUuX.jpg

R10 was awarded substantial compensation by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, but on February 1st 1995 he was found dead in his flat from an apparent heroin overdose. Shortly after his death police raided his flat and seized a video tape, alleged like the photos Messham handed to the police to be of the child pornography that Scallywag said was being produced in the care homes. Through a company owned by Allen's niece in Copenhagen. You can read about that here:

http://i.imgur.com/mXWi6.jpg

Julian Lewis MP got the contents of Scallywag's office seized over an alleged rent dispute. When it was resolved and the contents were returned all the documents relating to North Wales were missing.

Angus Wilson co-founder of Scallywag died in 1994, in a car crash in Cyprus, aged 31. Simon Regan co-founder of Scallywag and who stood against Lewis in an an election saying he was unfit for office died in 2000, aged 58.

The Scallywag article published in 1994 was written by Angus James. Angus James Wilson:

http://i.imgur.com/ccFfC.jpg

John Allen went into hiding in 2003 when he was cleared of 36 further offences under European Human Rights legislation.

Allen is now working as a porter in a Premier Inn:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-north-wales-care-home-1430164

From the end of the Scallywag article:

Should Lord McAlpine choose to consult his solicitors about the story we have printed, we would welcome the opportunity of dragging his name through the courts. Should he choose not to take action, then let his silence incriminate him.

We shall defend our story assiduously, for no one was there to defend the children continually abused by their rich and powerful overseers.

http://i.imgur.com/r6OXa.jpg

The Scallywag article was published in 1994 ahead of the trial in case of a miscarriage of justice, and to expose that it went far beyond Allen.

I have no words again.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The whole Cameron/McAlpine/BBC trifecta seems very dodgy now, and supports the set-up theory I already suspected.

Don't forget prince Charles and John Major.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Don't forget prince Charles and John Major.

I love how you always appear after an important post.

Please stick to what you said you'd do earlier, as post #1138 is quite depressing and now much more important.

PS: We already know Major is dodgy for suing about an affair while he was having an affair.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Well I think he sued them because they were printing things as fact that were not true. That's what most libel cases are about.

The whole story is, indeed, tragic.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I don't think tragic begins to cover it really.

I'm trying to think of a word that does.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Well I think he sued them because they were printing things as fact that were not true. That's what most libel cases are about.

The whole story is, indeed, tragic.

So as John Major sued them for libel about the affair which he was having but with the wrong person, and Lord McAlpine didn't sue them doesn't that say they were printing things as facts that were true?

Because Lord McAlpine now has a precedent for suing over such things.

 

[justjohn]

I love how you always appear after an important post.

Please stick to what you said you'd do earlier, as post #1138 is quite depressing and now much more important.

PS: We already know Major is dodgy for suing about an affair while he was having an affair.

This thread is bizzare. Instead of actually discussing what's going on, we have this mini Stalin snapping at anyone who dares to criticize his holy mission.
This thread isn't about you dude. Lets stick to why we''re all here in the first place.

 

[DECK'ARD]

This thread is bizzare. Instead of actually discussing what's going on, we have this mini Stalin snapping at anyone who dares to criticize his holy mission.

Post #1138, any comments?

 

[CyclopsRock]

So as John Major sued them for libel about the affair which he was having but with the wrong person, and Lord McAlpine didn't sue them doesn't that say they were printing things as facts that were true?


Because Lord McAlpine now has a precedent for suing over such things.

No, it doesn't. Not suing someone is not the same as admitting guilt. Of course I don't know, but there is at least one very good reason not to sue the Scallywag - the Streisand Effect. Did you know Lord McAlpine had been accused of being a paedophile before these past few weeks? Did anyone else? This was not a magazine with a big circulation, to the extent that they don't even know how many editions were even printed. This was a very small magazine - which of course says nothing to the chances of it being true (though Major's later successful libel suit does suggest that they're not beyond printing things that aren't true) - but to action a law suit would draw masses of attention to the issue.

That wasn't the case with the BBC when you have clowns like Monbiot and Bercow effectively naming them to hundreds of thousands of followers.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No, it doesn't. Not suing someone is not the same as admitting guilt. Of course I don't know, but there is at least one very good reason not to sue the Scallywag - the Streisand Effect. Did you know Lord McAlpine had been accused of being a paedophile before these past few weeks? Did anyone else? This was not a magazine with a big circulation, to the extent that they don't even know how many editions were even printed. This was a very small magazine - which of course says nothing to the chances of it being true (though Major's later successful libel suit does suggest that they're not beyond printing things that aren't true) - but to action a law suit would draw masses of attention to the issue.

That wasn't the case with the BBC when you have clowns like Monbiot and Bercow effectively naming them to hundreds of thousands of followers.

I can't find many holes in post #1138, can you?

 

[travisbickle]

I stopped following this after Cameron's "let's not turn this into a gay witch hunt".

Tory back benchers homophobia saved his arse on that one, now he can bury it because noone wants be accused of partaking in "a gay witch hunt"!!!

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

... - which of course says nothing to the chances of it being true (though Major's later successful libel suit does suggest that they're not beyond printing things that aren't true) - ...

I just want to respond to this point. John Major WAS having an affair at the time described in the article. The things Scallywag got wrong were the name and occupation of the woman involved. They said it was caterer Clare Latimer. In fact it was Edwina Currie, who admitted it in her book which led to a scandal.

The papers concerned considered launching efforts to have their rulings overturned but they didn't have the finances to pursue their claims.

Currie's Diaries (1987–92), published in 2002, caused a sensation, as they revealed a four-year affair with John Major between 1984 and 1988 while both were married to other people.

From Wikipedia:
http - Edwina_Currie - Affair with John Major

Telegraph article with Clare Latimer:
http Telegraph uk - I-was-a-decoy-for-Majors-affair-says-former-Downing-Street-cook

 

[DECK'ARD]

I stopped following this after Cameron's "let's not turn this into a gay witch hunt".

Tory back benchers homophobia saved his arse on that one, now he can bury it because noone wants be accused of partaking in "a gay witch hunt"!!!

Judging by the reaction to post #1138 on Facebook I wouldn't be so sure.

The Major thing and everything else is in post #923.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It should also be noted of course that Lord McAlpine just got £185,000 of tax payer's money by suing the BBC for not saying he was a paedophile. For the new page:

Sorry for the multiple posts but we are back in plain horrible territory again and something I had missed. I also want to keep things posted as we go along to be able to call back individual posts if required.

In the section titled fate of some of the victims in Update #2, R4 and R10 were directly linked. They were brothers.

R4 died in the arson attack in Brighton in 1992, verdict unlawful killing. R10 survived and tried to get them to investigate further and reopen the case. They didn't. All these details can be got from the Brighton article:

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/arson-cover-up-north-wales-child-abuse.html

In January 1995 R10 gave evidence in the trial of John Allen, head of the children's home company in North Wales. Allen is Mr X in the Scallywag article from 1994, and he was convicted. The person referred to as Paul in the Scallywag article also lived in Brighton in a flat paid for by Allen. Paul was said to have identified Lord McAlpine from 4 photos and made a sworn affidavit to this effect. Scallywag said they had that sworn affidavit, and Paul went to the police about it with the photos. You can read about that here:

http://i.imgur.com/sEUuX.jpg

R10 was awarded substantial compensation by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, but on February 1st 1995 he was found dead in his flat from an apparent heroin overdose. Shortly after his death police raided his flat and seized a video tape, alleged like the photos Messham handed to the police to be of the child pornography that Scallywag said was being produced in the care homes. Through a company owned by Allen's niece in Copenhagen. You can read about that here:

http://i.imgur.com/mXWi6.jpg

Julian Lewis MP got the contents of Scallywag's office seized over an alleged rent dispute. When it was resolved and the contents were returned all the documents relating to North Wales were missing.

Angus Wilson co-founder of Scallywag died in 1994, in a car crash in Cyprus, aged 31. Simon Regan co-founder of Scallywag and who stood against Lewis in an an election saying he was unfit for office died in 2000, aged 58.

The Scallywag article published in 1994 was written by Angus James. Angus James Wilson:

http://i.imgur.com/ccFfC.jpg

John Allen went into hiding in 2003 when he was cleared of 36 further offences under European Human Rights legislation.

Allen is now working as a porter in a Premier Inn:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-north-wales-care-home-1430164

From the end of the Scallywag article:

Should Lord McAlpine choose to consult his solicitors about the story we have printed, we would welcome the opportunity of dragging his name through the courts. Should he choose not to take action, then let his silence incriminate him.

We shall defend our story assiduously, for no one was there to defend the children continually abused by their rich and powerful overseers.

http://i.imgur.com/r6OXa.jpg

The Scallywag article was published in 1994 ahead of the trial in case of a miscarriage of justice, and to expose that it went far beyond Allen.

I have no words again.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I just want to respond to this point. John Major WAS having an affair at the time described in the article. The things Scallywag got wrong were the name and occupation of the woman involved. They said it was caterer Clare Latimer. In fact it was Edwina Currie, who admitted it in her book which led to a scandal.

The papers concerned considered launching efforts to have their rulings overturned but they didn't have the finances to pursue their claims.



From Wikipedia:
http - Edwina_Currie

I know, but when you're a newspaper or magazine printing things about people's private lives, even when it is in the public interest, the onus is on you to get the facts right, and they didn't - you don't get points for getting close, because it suggests that whatever source they had (even if it was an intentional plant as Latimer seems to think) was faulty. The fact is that they printed things that weren't true. The injustice that occurred not to Major but to Latimer could be replicated with those implicated in the paedophile article, add they now have a track record of doing just that.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Just sent it to the Mirror who ran the recent article on John Allen so they could provide more background to the story.

Short link for anyone who wants it:

http://bit.ly/WlPLpQ

Edit: Channel 4 news and Tom Watson done as well, the wider details must start coming out soon.

 

[Htown]

I feel like DECK'ARD is the guy in the movie who is sitting in the corner of his room, rocking back and forth while muttering to himself, with newspaper clippings plastered across his walls and floor and pieces of yarn connecting random articles in inscrutable patterns.

Now I'm just waiting for the plucky and pretty young reporter to interview him, decide he's crazy, then suddenly find a small but crucial piece of evidence that supports DECK'ARD's story before returning to his apartment to find him missing and the room mysteriously swept clean.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Thanks for the update to the OP.

After post #1138 should I suddenly stop posting you should be alarmed

I feel like DECK'ARD is the guy in the movie who is sitting in the corner of his room, rocking back and forth while muttering to himself, with newspaper clippings plastered across his walls and floor and pieces of yarn connecting random articles in inscrutable patterns.

Now I'm just waiting for the plucky and pretty young reporter to interview him, decide he's crazy, then suddenly find a small piece of evidence that supports DECK'ARD's story before returning to his apartment to find him missing and the room swept clean.

Oh I'm quite sane thank you, you have to be sort of logical when you teach yourself to code videogames.

If you disagree with post #1138 and find holes in it just explain why so we can look into it more.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

So this is basically the real-life version of 'House of Silk', with prominent politicians and people moving in the same circles as the royals being involved in systematic sexual abuse of kids, which has been going on for decades, and seemingly the involved parts are willing to kill to protect their asses?

Holy fuck.

This shit needs to be blown wide open regardless of how many prominent people it will bring down.

 

[DECK'ARD]

So this is basically the real-life version of 'House of Silk', with prominent politicians and people moving in the same circles as the royals being involved in systematic sexual abuse of kids, which has been going on for decades, and seemingly the involved parts are willing to kill to protect their asses?

Holy fuck.

This shit needs to be blown wide open regardless of how many prominent people it will bring down.

Seems so, as hard to comprehend as it is.

I can find no holes in post #1138, and everything can be dated and cross-checked.

 

[robertsan21]

Someone needs to do a break down on what has come to light, with pictures of suspects(if there are any) and a short summery of what he has done under each suspect.

A simple guide for us who like to know the story but cant read through 24 pages of posts

Would be appreciated.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Someone needs to do a break down on what has come to light, with pictures of suspects(if there are any) and a short summery of what he has done under each suspect.

A simple guide for us who like to know the story but cant read through 50 pages of posts

Would be appreciated.

Check the OP.

That is the quickest summary possible unfortunately, and I don't think we are finished yet.

Bristol / South Wales / Amsterdam / Northern Ireland all need to be added but are contained in the thread.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is there evidence for all the claims in 1138?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Is there evidence for all the claims in 1138?

There's a thread full of it, unless you are referring to the physical evidence that was deliberately destroyed.

That's not my job.

 

[CyclopsRock]

There's a thread full of it, unless you are referring to the physical evidence that was deliberately destroyed.

That's not my job.

I was just asking if there was evidence. There are lots of claims - like 'it is said' and that Scallywag had evidence but then it was taken and not given back etc - which may well be true but do you know if there is any evidence that attests that they are?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I was just asking if there was evidence. There are lots of claims - like 'it is said' and that Scallywag had evidence but then it was taken and not given back etc - which may well be true but do you know if there is any evidence that attests that they are?

It's rather concise and can all be dated and cross-checked.

I can't see any holes in it, and any more investigation into each part should just further confirm the other parts.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

There's just one thing that seemed unclear to me due to how it was worded, but was Allen's niece running a company that sold the child porn that was produced at the institution(s), or did I misunderstand that part?

 

[robertsan21]

wow, just read the OP and my god this goes deep..

Hopefully the lid is blown on this thing very soon so justice can take its course

 

[DECK'ARD]

There's just one thing that seemed unclear to me due to how it was worded, but was Allen's niece running a company that sold the child porn that was produced at the institution(s), or did I misunderstand that part?

Apparently.

There will be records for all this, as well as money trails. Now the Scallywag article can be corroborated the whole thing should be opened up.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's rather concise and can all be dated and cross-checked.

I can't see any holes in it, and any more research into each part should just further confirm the other parts.

That's not evidence, though. A story can make perfect sense and not be true. Again, not saying that's the case but we should be careful not to get carried away with unsubstantiated claims.

There is a fantastic episode of the Simpsons from about 20 years ago that deals with the nature of how child abuse is responded to, when Homer is falsely accused of touching up a young babysitter. There is a chat-show about it and a sobbing woman said: ‘I don’t know Homer Simpson, I — I never met Homer Simpson, or had any real contact with him, but — I’m sorry, I can’t go on.’ ‘That’s OK,’ says the interviewer, ‘your tears say more than real evidence ever could.’ The point is that you can make claims and they can make sense, and with such an emotionally demanding topic as this they carry a lot of weight - but it is evidence that proves things, not believability.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's not evidence, though. A story can make perfect sense and not be true. Again, not saying that's the case but we should be careful not to get carried away with unsubstantiated claims.

There is a fantastic episode of the Simpsons from about 20 years ago that deals with the nature of how child abuse is responded to, when Homer is falsely accused of touching up a young babysitter. There is a chat-show about it and a sobbing woman said: ‘I don’t know Homer Simpson, I — I never met Homer Simpson, or had any real contact with him, but — I’m sorry, I can’t go on.’ ‘That’s OK,’ says the interviewer, ‘your tears say more than real evidence ever could.’ The point is that you can make claims and they can make sense, and with such an emotionally demanding topic as this they carry a lot of weight - but it is evidence that proves things, not believability.

There's a lot of people who's job it is to find the evidence for this.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Lots more on Sir Cyril Smith, mentioned in the OP:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/cyril-smith-abuse-claims-covered-up-8326431.html

Cyril Smith abuse claims 'covered up'

Theresa May will this week be challenged to launch an investigation into allegations that an "establishment cover-up" prevented claims that Sir Cyril Smith was a child abuser from being revealed for almost 50 years.

Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk will ask the Home Secretary to order an inquiry into the handling of a police investigation into the activities of the former Liberal MP, who died two years ago, after a series of men came forward to claim they were abused by him in the town in the 1960s.

The Independent on Sunday reported last week that Mr Danczuk had called for "the truth" about Sir Cyril, after allegations of abuse at a hostel he founded re-emerged in the wake of the Jimmy Savile affair and the row over the BBC Newsnight report that led to Conservative peer Lord McAlpine being wrongly accused of child abuse.

Mr Danczuk told MPs that young boys at Cambridge House hostel had been "reduced to quivering wrecks by a 29-stone bully imposing himself on them", in the years before Sir Cyril became Rochdale MP in 1972. He said seven men had since told him of their experiences, which included being subjected to "sexual punishments" by Sir Cyril. A Manchester solicitor is representing a number of alleged victims.

However, the surge of interest in the allegations has also raised new questions about the police, prosecutors, politicians and the security services, who are alleged to have intervened to prevent Sir Cyril being prosecuted.

Although Lancashire Police investigated the claims in the 1960s, no action was taken. Tony Robinson, a former Special Branch officer with Lancashire Police, last week said a dossier "thick" with allegations against Sir Cyril was seized by MI5 in the 1970s and taken to London. He also said that the then Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) examined the allegations but decided a prosecution was "not in the public interest".

It has been claimed that Sir Cyril was protected because his party had become pivotal when the then Conservative leader, Ted Heath, invited the Liberals to form a coalition government after he failed to gain an overall majority in the first general election of 1974. At the time, it appeared that Sir Cyril might have become a government minister.

A former detective has claimed that around the same time, a Special Branch officer had tried to prevent him interviewing a man who alleged Sir Cyril abused young boys. Paul Foulston, a former detective constable with Thames Valley police, told The Guardian that two Special Branch officers said he couldn't interview a 20-year-old suspect at a remand centre in 1976 because they were "working on an inquiry relating to an MP" and the suspect should not be interviewed. Mr Foulston and his senior officer ignored the demand and went ahead; the man later told detectives he was angry because he had had a relationship with Smith and had been rejected by him.

But Sir Cyril's brother, Norman, has dismissed the claims as "nonsense", adding: "It's been proved on more than one occasion that there's no case."

Mr Danczuk, who will confront Mrs May with the concerns over the case during Home Office questions in the House of Commons, said last night: "What happened to the victims is tragic, but it is only half of the story; the other half is the shocking cover-up after the events were first reported more than 40 years ago.

"We have heard that Special Branch took the original police files, and that the DPP decided a prosecution was not in the public interest. These were incredible decisions and suggest someone was keen to keep a lid on this case whatever happened. We need to get all the information on this case published, but we need someone to bring it together and get to the bottom of what went on and how it was all allowed to happen."

Abuse against children is currently the subject of around 1,000 compensation claims, according to legal experts, with more expected.

w Senior BBC staff responsible for the flawed Newsnight investigation will this week learn if they still have a job, after an inquiry by Ken MacQuarrie, director of BBC Scotland, found that basic journalistic checks were not made. Liz Gibbons, who was Newsnight's acting editor when it claimed a "top Tory" was a paedophile on 2 November, will find out her fate this week.

Retired teacher: 'I wonder how she fared. I hope she's had a good life'

The article and photograph on the Johns family in last week's Independent on Sunday stirred up some memories for me that are over 40 years old. Adrian and Lee, who were on the left of the picture, and their two brothers had been abused at the Bryn Estyn care home in North Wales in the 1970s. Adrian was to die in an arson attack in Brighton in 1992, while Lee died of a drugs overdose three years later.

In 1969, I began my first teaching job after completing my training. It was in a Catholic high school in Flintshire. (Three years later, in 1972, Flintshire became part of the new county of Clwyd. Clwyd itself was abolished in 1996 and Flintshire was reborn.)

Something that I had not expected was that the pupil population would include a number of "orphans" who lived in a convent housed in a great Gothic complex in the middle of nowhere. The children were bused in and out every day.

I remember quite clearly all the convent orphanage children, including the Johns family. Leander (Lee) was the youngest, about 11; Julian (Jay) was about 13; Lisa was 14 and Adrian was 15. I think I knew there was another older brother, but I never met Chris. All the convent children were sent to school immaculately turned out. The Johns family was no exception. They were a very handsome family and their names were very unusual for that time and that area. Lisa, the only girl, was lovely. She was quiet, pleasant and friendly and never gave us a minute's trouble. In my first year, I was mostly responsible for a particular class and Lisa was in it. I wonder how she fared. I hope she's had a good life.

The boys were charming and very likeable but you had to watch them like hawks. I have memories of laughing at them and with them, and also of being furious with them. I remember Leander being really mischievous.

I left the school in 1971. The next time I heard their names was in connection with that dreadful fire which claimed Adrian. Throughout the Clwyd child abuse scandal I never associated them with what was going on.

I taught hundreds of children but I have never forgotten the convent children from 1969-71. What happened to the Johns family was and is unbearable. To one very young and inexperienced teacher, this lovely, troubled family made a lasting impression. I will always remember them.

BBC's 'Children in Need' raises nearly £27m

Children in Need raised £26,757,446 during Friday's live BBC show, allaying fears that the Jimmy Savile sex claims and two botched Newsnight investigations would adversely affect donations.

"I'm surprised and absolutely thrilled," said the charity's chairman, Stevie Spring. "It's a sign of the whole of the UK getting behind Pudsey, coming out in force."

Sir Terry Wogan, who fronted the show, strategically tiptoed around the Savile crisis in a video segment he introduced.

"We know that children are vulnerable, and news in recent weeks has been an awful reminder of how terrible that can be," he said. "Here at Children in Need we have been supporting children suffering all kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. We hope you can help us to continue that support."

It is hoped this year's final total will beat last year's £46.9m.

Paul Cahalan

 

[DECK'ARD]

Thanks for the thread title change.

 

[DECK'ARD]

http://cllrkevinedwards.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/possible-sabotage-of-north-wales-child.html?m=1

Possible Sabotage of North Wales Child Abuse Whistleblowers Car

THE whistle-blower who exposed the Welsh children’s home sex abuse scandal has cheated death in a suspect car smash ­after his brakes failed.


Police have seized care boss Malcolm King’s motor to see if it was sabotaged.

The car, a regularly-maintained Volvo S60, careered across a busy A-road and was hit side-on by an Alfa Romeo.

Afterwards Mr King, 68, who suffered a broken leg, found his brake pedal unattached and lying on the car floor.

The outspoken former boss of social services in Clwyd, where much of the abuse took place, told the Daily Star yesterday: “I guess I’ve pissed a lot of people off over the years.

“My friends tell me I’m crazy not to be more suspicious about it, but I can’t live my life being ­paranoid.

“If a man could die from paranoia I’d have been dead a long time ago.”

Labour councillor Mr King blew the whistle on a ­paedophile ring ­operating at north Wales children’s homes in the mid-1980s.

It allegedly ­involved shamed TV star Jimmy Savile and other ­celebrities, politicians, police chiefs and judges.

Mr King, a county councillor and former chair of North Wales ­Police ­Authority, was one of only 12 people given copies of the 1996 Jillings Report, which named ­every abuser.

The married dad-of-two’s brake pedal mysteriously failed on the A525 near Ruthin days ­after the ­scandal blew up again two weeks ago.

Mr King said: “I pushed my foot down hard on what I thought was the brake pedal but nothing happened.

“I’ve no idea whether the pedal was attached at this stage or not.

“The car flew across the junction and a car coming from my right smashed into my side.

“If I’d shot across the junction a split-second sooner I’d be dead because it would have hit where I was sitting rather than the bonnet. It doesn’t bear thinking about. My car, which is a write-off, is now in the hands of the crash investigators.

“It’s a good car and I’ve always maintained and serviced it regularly at the best garage in town.

“The police officer at the scene told me they’d examine it very thoroughly. They said they’d go over it with a fine-tooth comb.’’

The Jillings Report was so explosive insurers ordered it to be pulped but a copy has been found in council archives.

Mr King has renewed his campaign for a fresh probe in the wake of revelations about Savile’s depravity.

“I’m someone who speaks his mind,” he said. “If I know something is happening that I don’t like I will always speak out and try to change things.

“I spent a lot of time when the allegations first surfaced being incredibly paranoid.

“I didn’t know who to trust other than family. It was a terrible time.”

A North Wales Police spokesman confirmed officers are investigating the cause of the crash.

Clwyd County Council leader ­Dennis Parry, 64, said the controversial report should be made public.

 

[Nicktendo86]

http://cllrkevinedwards.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/possible-sabotage-of-north-wales-child.html?m=1

Fuck, this is getting really scary

 

[DECK'ARD]

Fuck, this is getting really scary

They can't kill the Internet.

http://bit.ly/WlPLpQ

 

[DECK'ARD]

Just post the link and spread it around, a bit of information should never harm anyone. Tick them off as you do them.

So far I've done:

- My Facebook
- Channel 4 news
- The Mirror newspaper
- The Independent
- The Independent's Facebook wall
- Tom Watson MP
- Some other journalists
- Some other councillors
- Some other MP's

Should any of these sources choose not to start reporting the wider details do make your displeasure known.

 

[Dambrosi]

They can't kill the Internet.

http://bit.ly/WlPLpQ

They have tried.

Just wanted to post to thank you for all your hard work, and to say, well...take care. This shit is really important, and it needs to be gotten out there, because even if only the Internet knows the truth, at least it will have been told.

 

[DECK'ARD]

They have tried.

Just wanted to post to thank you for all your hard work, and to say, well...take care. This shit is really important, and it needs to be gotten out there, because even if only the Internet knows the truth, at least it will have been told.

If the creator of Worms should suddenly die that would look fucking terrible.

 

[Dambrosi]

You created Worms? That game was part of my formative years, Sir. I thank you doubly for that.

Back on topic, I'm not sure what I can do that you haven't already, but I'll look into it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

You created Worms? That game was part of my formative years, Sir. I thank you doubly for that.

Back on topic, I'm not sure what I can do that you haven't already, but I'll look into it.

Share http://bit.ly/WlPLpQ in whatever ways possible, causing others to do the same.

It's what the Internet is designed to do and it's very powerful at it. There's safety, and power, in numbers.

If anything should go viral, this should.