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[Cosmonaut X]

You cant touch the Royals

There's a joke in there somewhere... ;-)

 

[Mascot]

Jimmy Saville And The Sexy Kids - Kunt And The Gang

Jesus Christ, I cracked up watching that...

 

[StealthGoblin]

Jesus Christ, I cracked up watching that...

He's come a long way since I was dancing around in his video for 'Use my arsehole as a cunt'.

 

[Ether_Snake]

You cant touch the Royals

Which is probably the source of the problem. The closer you are to them, the more untouchable you become.

I think it is the very core of the problem; royalty, the titles, etc. The UK isn't a true democracy, it really still is a monarchy. In fact, I'd say the monarchy is safer in the current system than at any point prior in history. It has become untouchable. Wasn't always the case.

The French probably have the same problem as the UK when it comes to pedophiles though, but that is simply because the monarchy has been replaced by other similar institutions, but which at least are certainly not constitutionally and culturally protected.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I laughed....

 

[Jackpot]

I think it is the very core of the problem; royalty, the titles, etc. The UK isn't a true democracy, it really still is a monarchy.

I think people are getting a tad hysterical here.

 

[Violet_0]

Reading this stuff you'd think the entire male population of this country is at it.

I'm sure this is not exclusive to Britain. It's much worse in less developed countries.

 

[God...frey Jones]

Finally got around to watching the Louie Theroux documentary with Saville. What a strange, strange man. Seemed to exist in a fantasy world. His life seemed very depressing in a lot of ways. He was almost a David Brent like character, with the relentless self-promotion, that self-important persona, the arrogance, the lack of social awareness, someone clinging to their fame for all it was worth.

That said, I thought Theroux went a bit hard at times. He seemed a little disrespectful for what we knew about Saville at the time. In hindsight though, maybe it was fitting?

 

[Cosmonaut X]

That said, I thought Theroux went a bit hard at times. He seemed a little disrespectful for what we knew about Saville at the time. In hindsight though, maybe it was fitting?

That's kind of Theroux's thing, though. I'm also fairly sure that - given the kind of things that are coming out now - that Theroux went in knowing a lot more than the viewer did, at least in terms of rumours he must have heard from people he knew in the business.

 

[God...frey Jones]

That's kind of Theroux's thing, though. I'm also fairly sure that - given the kind of things that are coming out now - that Theroux went in knowing a lot more than the viewer did, at least in terms of rumours he must have heard from people he knew in the business.

Yeah, fair point. I got that sense from the way he was framing the questions, particularly how he continually hounded Saville's disinterest in girlfriends throughout his life, and then the leading questions about the hebephilia rumours.

I thought Louie went a bit hard with the interrogation of Saville's relationship with his mother, and the 'finding booze' bit was a little unfair. Still, a fascinating documentary in a odd, depressing way.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's kind of Theroux's thing, though. I'm also fairly sure that - given the kind of things that are coming out now - that Theroux went in knowing a lot more than the viewer did, at least in terms of rumours he must have heard from people he knew in the business.

Yeah, Louis dismantles people without them realising.

He goes in fully-armed but draws the other person out instead of hitting them with it all. He's very clever indeed at reading people.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Yeah, Louis dismantles people without them realising.

He goes in fully-armed but draws the other person out instead of hitting them with it all. He's very clever indeed at reading people.

Precisely. Instead of trying to hang them, he just bumbles around with the rope and lets them do it themselves.

 

[Willkiller]

Louis always seems to be strangely uncomfortable in that doc. Not in the sense that Saville was playing him like he thought he was, but that Louis seemed to sense there was something Saville was hiding but couldn't put his finger on it.

 

[onken]

Claims that Rigsby was at it too, spotlight back on the BBC (this is what you get for touting a naming and shaming without making good on it):

Noooo not Rossiter..

 

[War Peaceman]

Louis always seems to be strangely uncomfortable in that doc. Not in the sense that Saville was playing him like he thought he was, but that Louis seemed to sense there was something Saville was hiding but couldn't put his finger on it.

Can hardly blame him. Savile is defensive from the offset, makes him sleep in his mother's old bed, has his name and number (that was it, right?) on a notepad without reason. Theroux has no reason to be suspicious and yet Savile is prickly throughout.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Not sure if Louis has a big background in psychology or if he is self-taught, but he definitely knew Saville was obsessed with his own mother before going in. That's why he was bugging him so much about it; to him it was the string to pull to see the real fucked up Saville. Parent problems are often the source of fringe personal issues.

 

[War Peaceman]

Not sure if Louis has a big background in psychology or if he is self-taught, but he definitely knew Saville was obsessed with his own mother before going in. That's why he was bugging him so much about it; to him it was the string to pull to see the real fucked up Saville. Parent problems are often the source of fringe personal issues.

You don't need any form of psychological training to see that he has issues with his mother. His Scarborough house is a shrine to her.

 

[Mascot]

It was hilarious hearing Paul Gambaccini outing Savile as a corpse-fucker on Radio Five Live Breakfast a couple of weeks ago. NOT the type of stuff you want to hear when munching on your cornflakes...

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Jimmy Savile: Necrononce.

 

[Mascot]

Jimmy Savile: Necrononce.

Maybe he was simply trying to reanimate them using the static electricity generated by rubbing the crotch of his nylon shell-suit.

 

[Walshicus]

I'd kind of switched off from the Savile story, but now it looks like there's even more to it with senior politicians involved. Is there a summary of what the fuck's going on?

 

[PJV3]

I'd kind of switched off from the Savile story, but now it looks like there's even more to it with senior politicians involved. Is there a summary of what the fuck's going on?

The welsh situation is fucked up, the original inquiry's terms of reference were so controlled that there wasn't going to be any justice for the abused.
Couldn't name people, couldn't talk about abuse that happened outside of the area( kids were booked by phone and sent to rape parties) etc.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I laughed....

Wasn't aware Wyman was into kiddos, but this part cracked me up

On 2 June 1989, aged 55, Wyman married 18-year-old Mandy Smith whom he had been dating since she was 13 and he was 50 years old. According to Smith, their relationship was sexually consumated when she was 14 years old. Their relationship was the subject of considerable media attention. The marriage ended in spring 1991, although the divorce was not finalised until 1993. In 1993, while Wyman was still married to Smith, Stephen, his son from his first marriage, became engaged to Smith's mother.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

1 - he's a dirty old man
2 - 13-16 aren't young girls. They're either young women, or girls. Young girls is usual tabloid sensationalism.
3 - arguably not even a pedophile, just a vanilla criminal.

what the fuck

 

[Dabanton]

what the fuck

I bet you he regretted that post as more and more stuff has come out.

Quite frankly if your fucking 13-16yr old girls and boys and you're a grown man consider yourself a sick twisted fuck. No excuses.

Savile was from the sound of things raping and abusing kids from ages 8 to 16

 

[DJMicLuv]

I'd kind of switched off from the Savile story, but now it looks like there's even more to it with senior politicians involved. Is there a summary of what the fuck's going on?

Briefly - Jimmy Saville raped everyone at some point, even you and me. Everyone in the entertainment industry in the 1970s in the UK was raping up a storm - from Arthur Mullard to Pat Coombes. 93% of all politicians have at some point buggered a boy against their will, most were in the presence of Leonard Rossiter when it happened.
In general - tons and tons of bunty men overtaking the UK, and there's NOTHING we can do about it.

 

[Temrer]

Just on the point of "13-16 year olds" etc. etc. - the UK age of consent for women is 16 and has been 16 since 1885.

Between males it was illegal until 1967, after which point it was 21 until 1994 (18, lowered to 16 in 2000).

 

[strobogo]

Is there any "Western" country in the world that doesn't think dudes over like...19-20 having sex with 16 year old girls isn't creepy? And each year it gets exponentially creepier. I'm 24 and I can't imagine fucking a 16 year old. And I can't imagine anyone I know thinking that it'd be totally cool and fine for me to do so, even if it is legal in my area. When you can go to bars or have a pension, you probably shouldn't be nailing sophomores in high school.

 

[Fritz]

Like every country outside the US including Vatican City.

 

[Gavarms]

Light Entertainment
Andrew O’Hagan writes about child abuse and the British public

Amazing piece of writing on this

Bakewell says it’s odd to see how the ethos now looks so horrible and so bent. ‘You can’t re-create the mood of an era,’ she said. ‘You just can’t get into the culture of what it was like, transfer our sensibilities backwards from today. It would be like asking Victorian factory owners to explain why they sent children up chimneys. It’s the same with the BBC that I first entered. It had habits and values that we just can’t understand from the point of view of where we are now. What we now find unacceptable was just accepted back then by many people.’

This was the milieu – so far unmentioned in all the hoohah – that Jimmy Savile entered when he left Radio Luxembourg. But nobody will feel sorry for him because he was made to the public’s specifications and to the specifications of the tabloid press, which has the skill to carry both the public’s worst fantasies and its deepest shame into print. For forty years people believed Savile was the hero of Stoke Mandeville Hospital and for forty years the red-top papers promoted his image as the nation’s zaniest and most lovable donor. He may have abused two hundred children during that time.

In 1959, the new pop show Juke Box Jury was produced by Johnnie Stewart. ‘I wanted to use Jim [Savile] as a bit of variety to give David Jacobs a little break,’ Stewart explains in The Story of ‘Top of the Pops’. ‘My boss at the time, the late Tom Sloan, said: “I don’t want that man on the television.” I said: “Sorry baby, but that man is box office. In his own sweet way – boy is he box office.” It is true to say that with his two-tone non-regulation hair, a somewhat bizarre taste in clothes and his rather buoyant personality, Jimmy Savile was not the typical “righter than right” BBC presenter.’

 

[Jackpot]

‘You can’t re-create the mood of an era,’ she said. ‘You just can’t get into the culture of what it was like, transfer our sensibilities backwards from today. It would be like asking Victorian factory owners to explain why they sent children up chimneys.

The difference being it was legal to send kids up chimneys back in those days. Pretty sure even the Victorians had laws against raping little boys.

 

[phisheep]

Amazing piece of writing on this

The difference being it was legal to send kids up chimneys back in those days. Pretty sure even the Victorians had laws against raping little boys.

That's a fantastic piece, and (sorry quoting you here Jackpot, but just to make the point) it's worth reading all the way through, and slowly.

EDIT: nvm

 

[kinn]

Just such a shame that after a successful jubilee and Olympics in which the eyes of the world were on us, and you felt sort of proud to be British again, that one of the great British institutions is revealed to the world to be run, staffed, and presented by a veritable shitload of nonces and nonce apologists. It's all very embarrassing.

Agreed. 2012 felt like a great year for the country. But with all this now...its unbeliveable. Defo dont feel proud being a Brit at the moment.

 

[Violet_0]

Is there any "Western" country in the world that doesn't think dudes over like...19-20 having sex with 16 year old girls isn't creepy? And each year it gets exponentially creepier. I'm 24 and I can't imagine fucking a 16 year old.

I find neither of these scenarios particularly creepy *shrug*

 

[Raistlin]

A 13 year old is not a young woman. A 13 year old is a child. So is a 14, 15 or 16 year old.
And no, there is no argument. He is a pedophile. A criminal. A low life piece of shit and the world is better off without him in it.

Language ... how does it work.

 

[Agent Unknown]

So, basically this guy was like a British version of Bill Cosby.

His headstone is being removed from his grave tomorrow at the request of his family.

If only Jerry Sandusky's idiot family had this kind of attitude.

 

[justjohn]

So, basically this guy was like a British version of Bill

Wtf

 

[Agent Unknown]

^^^^^

It's REAL, just google "Bill Cosby rape." Bill Cosby has allegedly drugged and molested many young women. Just that like Savile and the BBC, the American MSM has been covering for Cosby for decades because he's "America's favorite dad."

Edit: One example of many articles on this, Cosby's dark stuff started coming out in the early 2000s, but he successfully paid off all his victims:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20059561,00.html

 

[strobogo]

I find neither of these scenarios particularly creepy *shrug*

I don't know, I just feel like the difference in maturity levels between a 30 year old and a 16 year old is so immense that it seems like it is wrong. Even the smartest, most level headed and mature 16 year old is still an idiot kid. A lot of 16 year olds are hot, sure, but they're 16 and 16 year olds are still emotionally stupid kids. When you get to the point where one person in the relationship could be a parent or grandparent to the other, you're getting into some really bizarre and creepy shit. To me, at least. My sister is 17, so I know a lot of 15-18 year old girls.

I can't imagine even hanging out with them for a night, let alone enter some kind of physical relationship.

 

[SmokyDave]

I can't imagine even hanging out with them for a night, let alone enter some kind of physical relationship.

I can happily imagine getting into a 'physical relationship' with an 18 year old but I couldn't bear to hang around with one all night.

In essence, I agree with you. Something not quite right there, even if it's legal.

 

[strobogo]

I can happily imagine getting into a 'physical relationship' with an 18 year old but I couldn't bear to hang around with one all night.

In essence, I agree with you. Something not quite right there, even if it's legal.

18, maybe. But 16? Just the idea is sketchy to me. Even though, legally, I could go plow some 16 year olds right now in my city. I'd feel like a creeper for sure.


EDIT: WTF Billy Cosby the rapist?

 

[FGMPR]

I have to say, the way Savile's family have handled this whole affair has been very dignified.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Savile was paid to attend a charity event, with a tent of 6 young girls

Im only really getting up to date with all the stories coming out lately, some of this shit is fucking sick.

 

[DECK'ARD]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article3581584.ece

"Savile, the police and the social club that lasted 20 years

Jimmy Savile cultivated the friendship of a group of senior police officers through weekly meetings at his penthouse apartment, while being investigated over a string of abuse cases, a friend of the star has told The Times.

The broadcaster's "Friday Morning Club" included up to nine serving and retired police officers. The meetings were held regularly for almost 20 years until shortly before his death.

There is no suggestion that the men had any idea that Savile was involved in abuses, or that during this period police in other parts of the country were investigating at least six allegations that he had sexually abused children. Scotland Yard has been contacted by more than 300 possible victims with accounts of abuse over 40 years.

Most of the officers who attended the "club" at Savile's home in Leeds were from West Yorkshire Police, the force now investigating claims that Savile abused vulnerable children while working as a volunteer at Leeds General Infirmary.

Joseph Barker, a friend of Savile's since primary school and a founder member of the club, recalled yesterday: "They used to meet every Friday, about a dozen of them. Three quarters of them were police."

He described how Savile would "hold court", leaning back in a black leather armchair with a cigar. "We just drank tea and made light conversation. He was more of a listener when we were there - he liked to get people's opinions," Mr Barker, 85, said.

"Princess Di used to phone him while we were there in the Friday Morning Club. Just like that."

He said the BBC Radio 1 DJ and host of Top of the Pops and Jim'll Fix It had befriended some of the officers while giving talks at corporate functions or community events.

Mr Barker was one of Savile's oldest friends alongside the DJ's long-serving BBC radio producer, "Uncle" Ted Beston.

He met Savile when they were pupils at St Anne's Primary School in Leeds. They became close friends, cycled together in the Yorkshire Dales and threw a joint 21st birthday party. Mr Barker filmed two documentaries with Savile about mining, one for the BBC and one for ITV. He and his wife, Iris, would go on holiday to Scarborough three times a year and tried to co-ordinate their visits with Savile.

He is devastated by the revelations about Savile, saying: "He never mentioned women. It was always racing, cycling and music. I just can't believe it. It's like Jekyll and Hyde."

His wife, who knew Savile for 50 years, thought it was odd that he had never mentioned women.

"I'd never known him have an attraction to a woman his own age," Mrs Barker said. "We always thought he saw himself as one of the mafia. Any problem that arose, he used to say, 'My people will take care of it'. Now we are wondering who 'my people' were."

Savile wrote in his autobiography about an incident in the 1960s when he spent the night with an attractive girl, who had run away from a remand home, before handing her over to police in Leeds. He said a high-ranking woman police officer was persuaded by her colleagues not to charge him as "it was well known that were I to go, I would probably take half the station with me".

Other members of the club included Howard Silverman, a hairdresser and friend for 40 years, Jeffrey Marlowe, a running companion, and David Dalmour, a singer, who along with Mr Barker were each left [pounds sterling]1,000 in Savile's will. Mick Starkey, who retired from West Yorkshire Police as an inspector shortly before Savile's death, was also a member of the Friday Morning Club. The DJ joked that the officer was his "bodyguard".

Mr Starkey, 61, could not be contacted yesterday, but after Savile's death he told his local newspaper how he often drove Savile in his [pounds sterling]150,000 Rolls-Royce, including taking him for a spin in the Yorkshire Dales four days before his death.

"He was a part of my life as I grew up. He was a distant figure associated with Top of the Pops, Pan's People and everything that was trendy," Mr Starkey said. I never thought for a minute that in later life, as a serving police officer, I would meet him professionally or that subsequently we would become close friends."

Another officer named as a club member, Sergeant Matthew Appleyard, who was on duty at Wetherby Police Station in West Yorkshire yesterday, refused to comment. Other officers in the club could not be traced. Savile received recognition for his community work from police forces across the country. An auction of his possessions in July included a table lighter inscribed "To Jimmy Savile from his friends at the Fraud Squad", along with a series of plaques and awards including the Metropolitan Police 150th Anniversary medal.

A spokesman for West Yorkshire Police said that the force had not conducted any past investigations into Savile but had received calls from victims as a result of the recent media coverage. "None of these alleged any failure by police to investigate previously," he added.

The spokesman said Savile had publicly supported some West Yorkshire Police campaigns, although none in recent years. He said that the force had no information about officers attending Savile's Friday Morning Club but that they were free to do what they wished when off duty."

 

[Ether_Snake]

There is no suggestion that the men had any idea that Savile was involved in abuses, or that during this period police in other parts of the country were investigating at least six allegations that he had sexually abused children.

Yeah RIGHT. Knowing Savile (especially if you were a man) must have inherently mean knowing he was a pedo. He already said himself that if he was rattled, he would take half the station down with him. edit: it's right there in the quote actually.

"I'd never known him have an attraction to a woman his own age,"

Idiot.

They all knew.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Also a solicitor for the victims says that the youngest victim so far was 8yo, at Stoke Mandeville hospital.

So many people must have collectively let all this continue, it's plain depressing.

 

[God...frey Jones]

Just in regards to the 13 - 16 'pedophile thing', isn't the whole point of puberty readying the body for sexual function, and consequently appearing attractive to the opposite sex for the purposes of procreation? So when people say "finding a 14/15 year old boy/girl attractive is wrong' I tend to disagree. I think it's perfectly natural to find people of that age attractive.

Where it becomes wrong is when these attractions are acted upon. We've been around long enough to know that although a person may be physically maturing, these changes often don't correlate to mental maturity. Quite rightly, we have laws that protect these circumstances and don't allow people to take advantage of mentally-immature individuals.

So I guess I don't agree with people who regard attraction to pubescent people wrong. They deserve all they get when they act upon it though, and that's where I believe it becomes a mental disorder.

 

[UrbanRats]

Just in regards to the 13 - 16 'pedophile thing', isn't the whole point of puberty readying the body for sexual function, and consequently appearing attractive to the opposite sex for the purposes of procreation? So when people say "finding a 14/15 year old boy/girl attractive is wrong' I tend to disagree. I think it's perfectly natural to find people of that age attractive.

Where it becomes wrong is when these attractions are acted upon. We've been around long enough to know that although a person may be physically maturing, these changes often don't correlate to mental maturity. Quite rightly, we have laws that protect these circumstances and don't allow people to take advantage of mentally-immature individuals.

So I guess I don't agree with people who regard attraction to pubescent people wrong. They deserve all they get when they act upon it though, and that's where I believe it becomes a mental disorder.

I don't think being an asshole qualifies as a mental disorder, though i might be wrong.
A pedo who doesn't act upon his desire, is a person with a mental disorder, that has to be helped by a specialist.
Someone with an attraction to a young, yet past puberty person, that acts upon it, doesn't have a mental problem, just a moral one.
EDIT: How young is too young is ofcourse up to debate, but my point still stands.

 

[FGMPR]

Just in regards to the 13 - 16 'pedophile thing', isn't the whole point of puberty readying the body for sexual function, and consequently appearing attractive to the opposite sex for the purposes of procreation? So when people say "finding a 14/15 year old boy/girl attractive is wrong' I tend to disagree. I think it's perfectly natural to find people of that age attractive.

Where it becomes wrong is when these attractions are acted upon. We've been around long enough to know that although a person may be physically maturing, these changes often don't correlate to mental maturity. Quite rightly, we have laws that protect these circumstances and don't allow people to take advantage of mentally-immature individuals.

So I guess I don't agree with people who regard attraction to pubescent people wrong. They deserve all they get when they act upon it though, and that's where I believe it becomes a mental disorder.

I dunno about this, for me anyway. If I see a pretty girl who is around 13 or so, I can see she is pretty, and I'll say to myself "she's going to be beautiful when she grows up" or what have you, but the underdevelopment of the rest of her body will just totally block any kind of sexual attraction from forming in my mind.

I agree with there being no moral wrongdoing with simply being attracted though, and not acting out on it. I kind of wonder how often that occurs though. How many people who are attracted primarily to young people (illegal), actually fight through the urge their entire lives without slipping up?

On that last point, another Louis Theroux docu is pretty interesting. It's about a mental institution (for the lack of a better term) where convicted pedo's who are deemed hopeless are put through a process where it is hoped they are cured of their urges. Here it is anyway for those interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEt3-kuVl5Y

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Also a solicitor for the victims says that the youngest victim so far was 8yo, at Stoke Mandeville hospital.

So many people must have collectively let all this continue, it's plain depressing.

Yup. It's why I think trying to land all of this on one organisation - be it the Beeb or whoever - is wrong, and potentially damaging. This seems to have been a massive failure across multiple organisations, a huge cultural failure and the personal failure of dozens (hundreds?) of people who could have and should have done *something*. That needs to be accepted and addressed, otherwise it can happen again.