LordCBH
Member
It’s managed to climb out of Mostly Negative on Steam so that’s something I guess?
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Chris Dring at GDC: Xbox sales flatlining in Europe, majority of Xbox games coming to PS5 at some point, MS putting less focus on GamePass
It’s managed to climb out of Mostly Negative on Steam so that’s something I guess?
Ashamam
Member
Radical_3d
Member
Ey! You were right! XDBethesda
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Annoying every time somebody says anythIng positive about ms they are labeled a fanboy, super lame and narrow minded.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Well, you have to look outside the gaf bubble. The casual mainstream gamer never visits here and didn't realize they were supposed to hate starfield.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
its seems that wayHmmm, to be a little more objective? No doubt a lost cause.....
Nydius
Gold Member
You really do just live in your own reality, I guess.
We DO know those numbers.
Back in February, Microsoft announced they had 34 million total Game Pass subscribers. That's including Game Pass Console, Game Pass Ultimate, Game Pass Core, and Game Pass PC. From the accidental FTC file dump (that was later pulled down and properly redacted), we know that, as of April 2022, they had 33.6M total subscribers across Game Pass (excluding PC) and Xbox Live Gold.
We can measure those numbers just fine and they're not growing.
They have the same total number of subscribers in February 2024 as they had in April 2022.
Neither Starfield nor Forza Motorsport moved the needle for Game Pass subs.
[Edit: Typed "retracted" when I meant "redacted".]
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The casual mainstream gamer doesn't know Starfield exists and that's the major problem.
If your game is not on PlayStation or Switch it may as well not exist in the UK & EU console markets.
That may sound harsh but it's the reality. You have to feel sorry for the devs at Bethesda pleading to have a multi-platform release for their titles.
All that hard work that will fade away into irrelevance without a port.
T10 are not what they once where.
With the contractor policy much of the talent has left, and with it their knowledge. Many wanted to remain but where forced out after 18 months.
That's why we see recurring issues title-to-title. No one is ever in position long enough to address them - they have their hands full dealing with their immediate tasks.
People say Halo is dead but I genuinely belive it could have a revival if it came to PlayStation. Forza Motorsport on the other hand - there's little hope. The Xbox community has moved onto the Horizon series and sim players have long since gone elsewhere. They can't even give the series a boost by bringing it to PlayStation due to Gran Turismo. I'm not even sure the Motorsport series will continue beyond bare bones update with their GAAS model. I can't imagine MS putting in the investement to turn things around - they'll just pump out another Horizon.
clarky
Gold Member
Sorry to jump in here but I consider myself a Forza fan and Motorsport is hands down the worst entry in the series. Huge technical issues on PC, online races are fucked due to the broken beyond belief penalty system, safety ratings and match making, graphical issues on both systems (I also own a series X as well as a PC), piss poor career mode and a progression system so bad the dev's had to basically abandon it a few months after launch. I could go on.
I'm sorry you can point to the metacritic scores all you like, and I'm glad you like it but this is objectively the worst Forza in the series. The only the handling model using a pad its its saving grace, and even that has its problems.
Super disappointed by this release in particular. Its fucking bad, really bad.
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clarky
Gold Member
That's very sad man.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
So with.your amazing insight, you know how many subs they would have had without starfeild and force? You can bet your ass it would be less. So go ahead, measure it for me Nostradamus.
But go ahead, live in fantasy and say those two games affected gamepass in no way whatsoever.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
The casual mainstream gamer who owns an xbox for sure knows it exists. Greater sales on other platforms? Sure.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
T10 actually put out a very good game, whether they want to make another does depends on the metrics that we can't see.
Halo is far from dead, a retooling back to a regular on rails great graphics story driven halo and it can easily be back on track. Part of the reason Sony is doing so well is polished story driven titles like tlof, spideman, God of war. Ms went of track with scope and scale of Halo infinite which let it a bit lost.
Ashamam
Member
The point was the metacritic average has a firm fanboy finger on the scales. No one in their right mind could see Starfield as a 10. An 8 sure, arguable, 9 if you squint and only score it off your own internal scale, but 10? Yeah that IS certifiable fanboy territory and I just found it funny the top entry was literally labelled Attack of the fanboy.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, bit if we are talking about the performance of a game, we can't talk anecdotally and personally in terms of its importance for the platform. There are some AAA games out there that I hate that other people love.
Skifi28
Member
You're the one claiming record engagement and "maybe it was responsible for 3 million gamepass sales". Thanks for bringing all that objectivity to the thread.
Meanwhile on all the actual engagement metrics we have, like how many people are still playing the game after 6 months, it's a huge failure.
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clarky
Gold Member
I love the Forza games, just this one is broken. Its not an opinion, its a fact.
TransTrender
Gold Member
FM is a disaster as it's not in the top 50 Exksbawx most played and still tracking 500 something players on Steam Charts.
clarky
Gold Member
Much better options on PC if you fancy a race. Hell there's better option's on xbox, FM7 for starters.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
I hope The Duck is getting paid, because otherwise I don’t understand why provide free MS defense services, lol.
Edit: And my god was Forza disappointing. Tried it on PC and XSX and while the latter was a bit better, it was still utter shit. I can’t fathom WTF the studio spent 8 years on.
I spent like $15 or whatever it was for 1 month of Ultimate to try out Starfield and Forza (after Starfield DLSS official support came out) and oh boy was it not worth it. I should have got to Panera for lunch or something.
Edit: And my god was Forza disappointing. Tried it on PC and XSX and while the latter was a bit better, it was still utter shit. I can’t fathom WTF the studio spent 8 years on.
I spent like $15 or whatever it was for 1 month of Ultimate to try out Starfield and Forza (after Starfield DLSS official support came out) and oh boy was it not worth it. I should have got to Panera for lunch or something.
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Daneel Elijah
Member
Are you talking about FM not being a flop from a "technically correct" position, your feelings when playing it, or your logical opinion about what you have seen online and the data that we do have?
Technically yes we can't say it is a flop without knowing the numbers. And you can like whatever game you want to like. But as a guy who never played the franchise I see the game reception as closer to Forspoken than let's say Vampire survivors. Tech problems and lack of engagement outside of the launch window. But maybe you had other experiences in other sites? If yes I would be curious to learn where.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I never once said record anything, nice made up bs there. Feel free to quote exactly where I said record engagement. So your objectively that 2 large releases for xbox had zero effect on gamepass subs? Ok you run with that.
You mean those brilliant steam metrics on the platform that most people don't own the game on?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Don't you think it's a bit odd that most of the professional reviews don't flush this out? And that 70% of users reviews don't say that either? If it's so broken, where is backup?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Anyone who's played can tell the game is polished both gameplay and graphics wise.
There's some division about execution, online play etc. (Same with gt7 really)
This is also backed up by proffesional reviews.
Again, not sure if the engagement is bad or great. Or what the expectation really was in terms of the above. Without all the data, how would we know. Bit the whole "it's crap" has very little credibility.
It wasn't for me, or I didn't like the progression system, or I had some tech issues make a lot more sense.
Daneel Elijah
Member
Thanks for the answer. I consider exageration the standard in social medias sites like reddit and NeoGaf, so I don't really mind it when some games are considered trash when they are not. I know that I don't like it when it is done for games I liked like Horizon Forbidden west so I simply don't go to threads that are all about how it was a flop for x reasons. For FM neogaf consensus was that it was dissapointing and some posters that I respect said it too so that was it for me.
Skifi28
Member
You're right, you said "large" not "record". Let's focus on semantics while ignoring the actual point. It's not like you provided any number to focus on.
I'm claiming Forza flopped so yes, it probably had little to no effect on subs. If you have numbers showing otherwise, do shows us.
I just proved to you that the other Forza game also on steam has 30 times the player numbers despite being three years older and also on gamepass. The same is true for other Microsoft games on steam that are also on gamepass. It's odd that the issue only affects motorstorm, which happens to be the most recent release and the entire single player is designed around getting as much engagement as possible by constantly removing and time gating content. It also gets regular updates, but that doesn't seem to help either. They ruined the single player and made it as little fun as possible in order to drive engagement, which they failed at getting anyway.You mean those brilliant steam metrics on the platform that most people don't own the game on?
A bit. But the upside to this I think is that Sony would now be competing with PC instead.
Then, having a much expensive Pro X PS6 at $999 wouldn’t be too crazy of an idea. And devs having to program for 3 PS6 configuration (PS6 base, PS6 Pro, PS6 Pro X) wouldn’t be too much considering it’s the only player left on consoles.
In fact it would viable now for Sony to release two configuration at the start of PS6 now that MS is no longer a competition. PS6 base should still be next gen specs at 399-499 though and not like the gimped Series S so the baseline for next gen would be high.
I’m a PS fanboy so you wouldn’t scratch your head where I’m coming from.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I don't get it, I don't have numbers, but neither do you, so I'm wrong?
Same as above, apply your own standard to question. If neither has proof, why are you right?
As explianed, the other forza game has broader appeal, launched at a cheaper price, and was also for sale long before this game, and has had more time to sell. In addition, it has been on sale many times at a considerable discount, once again furthering it's sales on steam. Maybe compare in 2 years when the game has been on sale multiple times for $30 instead of $70? The cheapest it has ever been is $45 for a whopping 1 day, and was $56 twice which is basically full price of horizon.
I'm not sure what you guys expected, it's the sequel to a game that sold 1.5 million copies, not 15 million. Take away all the gamepass subs interested and people playing on console, how many people do you think you have left ready to buy it on steam?
Daneel Elijah
Member
I always like to give this link when Xbox naming conventions are talked about.
In their defense, each Xbox console got made by another team and another leader. Bill gates was there for the Xbox name. The 360 was felt necessary by Peter Moore team. The Xbox One was under Don Mattrick and was not that bad now that we moved from it IMHO. I have no fucking idea how they got to the series name, but they dared to say that they had thought about it a lot and this will always be funny to me.
Skifi28
Member
I have provided numbers, the only actual numbers we have and they show the game not doing well. You are the one with no numbers to support your claim.
That's not how steam concurrent users work though. The peak is always shortly after a game's launch and then it only drops, with occasional increases after updates. The game can be on sale for a decade for a dollar, the concurrent users will still be on their highest close to launch. Motorsport has already peaked, it's only dropping now. Even the large updates didn't move the needle. No wonder considering some things they updated are worse now and none of the main issues were addressed. They mostly added some of the content they removed since Forza 7.
Look at horizon 5, it's been selling for over three years and the peak of 80k was achieved at launch, there is no increase after that despite how much it may sell in total:
Forza Horizon 5 - Steam Charts
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.
Yeah, Motorstorm was never a 20 million seller and now they made a new game that most fans of the series dislike, it's unfortunate they'll never release any official data to see just how much the game flopped. By the metrics we do have though, 500 users is a joke for a large AAA Gaas game in a popular and long running series that took 6 years to make and is barely 6 months old. Indie games have more users, ancient sims have more users, anything really has more users.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I have provided numbers, the only actual numbers we have and they show the game not doing well. You are the one with no numbers to support your claim.
That's not how steam concurrent users work though. The peak is always shortly after a game's launch and then it only drops, with occasional increases after updates. The game can be on sale for a decade for a dollar, the concurrent users will still be on their highest close to launch. Motorsport has already peaked, it's only dropping now. Even the large updates didn't move the needle. No wonder considering some things they updated are worse now and none of the main issues were addressed. They mostly added some of the content they removed since Forza 7.
Look at horizon 5, it's been selling for over three years and the peak of 80k was achieved at launch, there is no increase after that despite how much it may sell in total:
Forza Horizon 5 - Steam Charts
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.steamcharts.com
Yeah, Motorstorm was never a 20 million seller and now they made a new game that most fans of the series dislike, it's unfortunate they'll never release any official data to see just how much the game flopped. By the metrics we do have though, 500 users is a joke for a large AAA Gaas game in a popular and long running series that took 6 years to make and is barely 6 months old. Indie games have more users, ancient sims have more users, anything really has more users.
You have only provided numbers for the most unimportant platform with the least expected sales by a landslide, and we've gone over this, so your "numbers" are irrelevent.
Peak might be right at launch but if you look at sales overall for the regular forza series you will find a game that doesn't do huge number day one but has good overall long term sales.
Don't confuse active players online on steam with all players on all xbox systems, again, its not the benchmark MS is looking at.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Please, I have all the self respect a gamer needs. I sold my antique switch (hoping the new one has some juice at least), I'm playing mostly PS5 and steam deck oled these days (the combo of PC, XBplay and Chaiki4deck is great), and recently build a new gaming pc with another stab at that (always seem to gravitate away though due to annoying setup/maintainence, at a TV I'm not crazy about grabbing the mouse). No sell out here, just a little bit of objectivity not collored by a "favorite" console. I have an investment in all the console game libraries.
Banjo64
cumsessed
And despite all of that, Xbox is the platform you shill for.
Skifi28
Member
Again, I have provided the only numbers we actually have. Steam might not be the platform where the game sells most, but it's always a good indication of a game's overall health in a smaller scale. Horizon 5 might be on gamepass and sell most on xbox, but its numbers on steam are also very positive. If a game failed on steam, it probably didn't do well anywhere else either. If you have more numbers to add to help us reach a different conclusion, by all means. You made claims about your objectivity, but I've yet to see it.
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
And that in a nutshell shows the imaturity of many people on this board, say anything positive about MS and you are a shill. Sad position really, maybe grow up a little.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I fail to see how lower numbers on a platform nobody expected it to sell on mean anything. I already explained why Horizon 5's numbers are better, but you discard that as it doesn't fit your narrative. Since you have ZERO xbox or game pass engagement numbers based on that game, you grasp at whatver you think might support your position. In the abscense of concreted numbers, choosing ones that are irrelevent do not make a strong position. It's akin to saying mcdonalds can't sell burgers at the location where they have tills that don't take take debit cards. Cash only here, but why are your sales so low? Must be the worst mcdonalds in the country I guess, based on thier "bad sales". Since the vast majority of gamers who wanted the game were paying via another method (xbox or gamepass), steam had no bearing on most sales.
GHG
Member
Banjo64
cumsessed
no u
GHG
Member
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Skifi28
Member
No, you didn't expect it to sell anything. Microsoft didn't put the game on Steam for shits and giggles, but to sell it. Millions on PC don't want or have gamepass and buy their games instead.
Yes, you have explained it's a more popular game, I agree. But it's 30 times more popular, that is an astonishing amount for a game that just came out and is gaas vs a game that is three years old. An objective person such as yourself, should ponder that difference for a bit.
Wait, does that mean that you expected Horizon 5 to sell on steam...despite being on gamepass? That's quite interesting.
Yeah, I'm not even gonna try and make sense of your Mcdonalds analogy, just don't. Say what you want to say about the topic at hand, not weird roundabout examples about planes, cars or fastfood restaurants. As I explained (which you disregarded since it doesn't fit your narrative, heh) :
"Steam might not be the platform where the game sells most, but it's always a good indication of a game's overall health in a smaller scale. Horizon 5 might be on gamepass and sell most on xbox, but its numbers on steam are also very positive. If a game failed on steam, it probably didn't do well anywhere else either."
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Actually Phil and I met last night with valve and our steam box X-TREME is due out this fall. No need for paltry consoles anymore, they will just buy the Steam box X-TREME.
Ships for $299, 30tf, elite xbox controller in the box.
