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[numble]

NY/NJ state politics are poison to an up an coming career if you have national ambitions. The Governor's mansion is an endgame, not a stepping stone.

This is why running Clinton makes sense, you're not really giving up any opportunity cost.

If you can have a squeaky-clean Obama come out of Chicago, you can have someone come out of NY/NJ. Christie had a decent chance at the GOP primary in 2012, for instance.

Illinois, Nevada and California had horrible reputations for local politics but they are considered strong sources for Democratic candidates going forward.

 

[rjinaz]

This is going to sound weird, but rather than run for office again, I would rather Hillary either focus on charitable causes

OR play the role that everyone keeps accusing her of anyway. She could be the person who raises funds for democrats behind the scenes.

That seems like it would be a good idea.

Clinton doesn't need the money. She wants to work. She wants to do what she does best, and I would assume make a difference. I can understand wanting to stick with a politics but maybe there is another route she could take.

That said, I still think Clinton has a lot to offer and the fact that Republicans hate her so very much says to me that she should stick around. She must be doing something right.

 

[kirblar]

If you can have a squeaky-clean Obama come out of Chicago, you can have someone come out of NY/NJ. Christie had a decent chance at the GOP primary in 2012, for instance.

Illinois, Nevada and California had horrible reputations for local politics but they are considered strong sources for Democratic candidates going forward.

Obama didn't touch executive offices on his way up. That's the trick to doing it.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

None of them want to admit that Clinton did better or as well as all the other candidates except for the guy whose most famous as was him assembling a rifle quickly and had an NRA endorsement.

The country don't want socialists.

This is kind of misleading. Kander's whole thing was that he wanted to run as a normal progressive Democrat and talked about BLM and $15 minimum wage and basically every other bread and butter Democratic policy, including background checks, instead of Third Way-esque triangulation. Not sure where you're getting the NRA thing either, they've given him a D and a 7% score, maybe you're thinking of the Missouri governor candidate. Also, every non-populist also underperformed Clinton, so I guess McGinty and Murphy probably aren't the future either. A better candidate to illustrate your point would be Evan Bayh, who outran Hillary pretty well in Indiana even though he also lost, but he's a way more special case.

 

[Blader]

This is going to sound weird, but rather than run for office again, I would rather Hillary either focus on charitable causes

OR play the role that everyone keeps accusing her of anyway. She could be the person who raises funds for democrats behind the scenes.

If only she had some kind of foundation that would allow her family to pursue charitable causes around the world that hadn't been raked over the coals by misguided liberals.

 

[B-Dubs]

If you can have a squeaky-clean Obama come out of Chicago, you can have someone come out of NY/NJ. Christie had a decent chance at the GOP primary in 2012, for instance.

Illinois, Nevada and California had horrible reputations for local politics but they are considered strong sources for Democratic candidates going forward.

Christie was always a paper tiger though. Anyone in the region could have told you about all the times he was on the Atlantic City boardwalk yelling at people while governor (it's something he actually got caught on camera doing once early in his term).

Obama was a fairly unique case, he can't be taken as the norm. Plus the NY press is beyond ruthless when going after someone. Bill de Blasio was late for an event once and it's literally all we heard about for like 2 straight months. If there's even a drop of blood in the water you can consider your numbers tanked.

 

[Abounder]

Now as much as

Spoiler

most of

GAF hates her and refuses to recognize any good she's every done for our country, I think that this is a pretty great idea. Hillary still has time before her age would require her to start settling down for retirement. She's extremely popular in New York and I really want her to continue her political career. Lord knows the New York public school system could really use her help, and a lot of us really look up to her as a role model.

Thoughts? Inb4 she's poison, her career is over, Bernie would have won, she uses Gmail, etc.

Last sentence sums it up. Democratic party is screwed as long as the Clinton camp is in charge, especially Hillary whose top accomplishments include the Iraq War and Donald Trump. I'd also replace 'GAF' with most Americans.

But maybe she can do some good for NY schools or something.

 

[studyguy]

Last sentence sums it up. Democratic party is screwed as long as the Clinton camp is in charge, especially Hillary whose top accomplishments include the Iraq War and Donald Trump. I'd also replace 'GAF' with most Americans.

But maybe she can do some good for NY schools or something.

In charge of what? A stronghold blue state?
A 50 state strategy with a lifelong democrat holding one of the most difficult governorships in the country? What's the loss here. If she wins she goes nowhere beyond the state. Dems get a reliable ally there. What.

Again this has nothing to do with the election and people should frame it as such, for NY specifically. If Cuomo runs 2020 like he seems to be, SOMEONE will need to replace him and a younggun isn't gonna be the person to do cut it in NY.

 

[noshten]

Well Hillary had all the money and still failed while those candidates had none. The Republicans focused on the downticket races because they felt that Trump wouldn't win.

Feingold got 1,380,496 votes.
Hillary got 1,382,210 votes.

Hillary got about 2,000 more votes than Feingold, very impressive.

The last two times Democrats won Zephyr Teachout's seat was in 2006 and 1988.

Ted Strickland also ran against an incumbent Republican senator in state that has had only one Democrat win in the past 16 years. And that Democrat won in 2006.

Hillary is far more of a historic failure than these candidates. She is the first democratic presidential nominee to lose Wisconsin since 1984, Michigan since 1988, and Pennsylvania since 1988.

Thank you for the context

 

[legacyzero]

By point out overwhelming flaws, do you mean harping on the same played up gaffes and issues that are downright pedestrian for a politician with a career as long as Clinton's?

Are you going to ignore her history of being shamed, harassed, and demonized by her enemies for decades? The partisan circus of the Benghazi hearings, the ridiculous oversaturation of coverage of her emails? Do you really want to overlook the unprecedented and vastly more severe and numerous problems with the candidate she ran against?

How many times did you see a Bernie supporter yell about her emails or Benghazi? It just wasn't a thing. I would even go as far to say that Bernie supporters found those issues to be bullshit just like her supporters did. But those issues, and the history of sexist harassment towards her, were most often put up as straw-man arguments in contrast to her actual LEGIT issues. Her mega establishment, money hungry, conflict of interest, non-principal, trade supporting history is more valid.

Edit: clification- that's. It to downplay her history of harrassment in the face of the GOP.

At some point, I hope, you will take a cue from Bernie and move on with your life to focus your time and energies on more immediate and important fights, and not continue to relive the 2016 presidential primary.



What does the electoral college matter to electing the governor of New York?



Says the one who claimed Hillary would never campaign outside of NYC, despite having done to great effect already in two winning Senate races.

I just don't think it's wise to look forward without first looking back. Mistakes were clearly made, both in the campaign and the voters. Missteps with the polls, arrogance, assumption, overly political correctness, ID Politics, etc.

If we don't learn from these, and if both sides aren't open to reflection, we WILL fucking lose again.

I myself have already owned that , even before the GE, the Bernie or bust thing was fucking dumb. I moved on in the GE and supported Clinton, even apprehensively. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to appeal to all voters what I think would be best from my views. As should you.

That's ACTUAL discourse. This NEEDS to happen.

 

[Abounder]

In charge of what? A stronghold blue state?
A 50 state strategy with a lifelong democrat holding one of the most difficult governorships in the country? What's the loss here.

Charge of the party. The loss is another Trump/Republican whooping like what we've seen already. Dems are screwed as long as the Hillary camp is calling the shots, they need to retire

 

[numble]

Christie was always a paper tiger though. Anyone in the region could have told you about all the times he was on the Atlantic City boardwalk yelling at people while governor (it's something he actually got caught on camera doing once early in his term).

Obama was a fairly unique case, he can't be taken as the norm. Plus the NY press is beyond ruthless when going after someone. Bill de Blasio was late for an event once and it's literally all we heard about for like 2 straight months. If there's even a drop of blood in the water you can consider your numbers tanked.

People are already talking about Tammy Duckworth...

I don't think those things you stated actually mean much of anything. My point about Illinois, California and Nevada still stands. They were considered toxic places for national Democratic candidates but have turned the perception around by having good and effective politicians.

 

[kirblar]

Describing Hillary Clinton as "Money Hungry" is absolutely insane.

 

[studyguy]

Charge of the party. The loss is another Trump/Republican whooping like what we've seen already. Dems are screwed as long as the Hillary camp is calling the shots, they need to retire

I wasn't aware NYC governors exclusively ran the DNC.

 

[hodayathink]

I'm not talking total fledgling, but there's obviously a pretty large niche between, say, multiple term NY House representative on the one and former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary, former Presidential candidate on the other. If you're telling me the Democrats can't find a single candidate in that middle ground, they have a much bigger problem than I thought.

The problem is that the people that would fill that gap, you'd actually rather have them in the Senate and the House than as governor of NY, politically, as it would be a better jumping off point for them nationally.

If you can have a squeaky-clean Obama come out of Chicago, you can have someone come out of NY/NJ. Christie had a decent chance at the GOP primary in 2012, for instance.

Illinois, Nevada and California had horrible reputations for local politics but they are considered strong sources for Democratic candidates going forward.

Obama managed to come out of Chicago because he spent as little time there as possible, moving from a relatively small local position to a national one. He (and Duckworth) kinda prove the point that you'd rather have the up and coming politicians in that state run for the House and the Senate than run for the governor of the state.

 

[andythinkpad]

Why? She should keep fighting. We all should.

She is a terrible candidate with no charisma and terrible health. I won't be voting for her.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If you can have a squeaky-clean Obama come out of Chicago, you can have someone come out of NY/NJ. Christie had a decent chance at the GOP primary in 2012, for instance.

Illinois, Nevada and California had horrible reputations for local politics but they are considered strong sources for Democratic candidates going forward.

Obama wasn't an executive, though.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Please god let this happen

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Another interesting point wrt Feingold is that he actually won a lot of the traditionally blue counties in western Wisconsin that Trump flipped this year, just not by a large enough margin to save him from the Clinton-Johnson suburbanites. A Clinton campaign that tried to go get the traditional Democrats to remember why they are Democrats probably would have actually pushed him (and her) over the top.

Not that this is that relevant to her NY governorship bid, but this is dumb and we should get a young, skilled candidate to do this instead.

 

[Fhtagn]

Can't be worse than Cuomo, at least.

Yeah, Coumo is a horrible dem and I'd love to see his presidential ambitions derailed.

As registered NY Dem, I'll vote in the primary for almost anyone with a reasonable chance to take down Cuomo, they only have to be a little better than him for it to be worth it.

 

[B-Dubs]

People are already talking about Tammy Duckworth...

I don't think those things you stated actually mean much of anything. My point about Illinois, California and Nevada still stands. They were considered toxic places for national Democratic candidates but have turned the perception around by having good and effective politicians.

She's a senator, not a governor. How many people in executive positions in Illinois are actually on the radar? The mayor of Chicago? The Governor of the State?

Also, I really think you don't understand just how toxic Albany is. Or how ruthless the local press is. Any up and comers from NY will be Congressmen or Senators. We use governors and NYC mayors for target practice, even the good ones. If there's nothing real there something small will be exploded into a huge scandal.

If you're a New Yorker and want to run for President one day you don't do it by winning the Governorship, you do it by winning a Senate seat (like Gillibrand) or a seat in the House.

 

[SneakersSO]

Meh, I don't want it personally because, as a former Democrat myself, I have now come to detest the Clinton branch of the democratic party, and hate the idea of them remaining in power through this.

 

[Blader]

I just don't think it's wise to look forward without first looking back. Mistakes were clearly made, both in the campaign and the voters. Missteps with the polls, arrogance, assumption, overly political correctness, ID Politics, etc.

If we don't learn from these, and if both sides aren't open to reflection, we WILL fucking lose again.

I myself have already owned that , even before the GE, the Bernie or bust thing was fucking dumb. I moved on in the GE and supported Clinton, even apprehensively. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to appeal to all voters what I think would be best from my views. As should you.

That's ACTUAL discourse. This NEEDS to happen.

I am not really interested in a discourse that categorizes political correctness and "identity politics" as missteps.

 

[DragonSworne]

Great, another state that will get a Republican Governor.

 

[numble]

The problem is that the people that would fill that gap, you'd actually rather have them in the Senate and the House than as governor of NY, politically, as it would be a better jumping off point for them nationally.



Obama managed to come out of Chicago because he spent as little time there as possible, moving from a relatively small local position to a national one. He (and Duckworth) kinda prove the point that you'd rather have the up and coming politicians in that state run for the House and the Senate than run for the governor of the state.

Obama wasn't an executive, though.

He was involved in state politics, and he was there for 7 years.

There is no feasible path for a Congressperson in a Democratic minority to create a national profile. They aren't going to be authoring legislation or blocking legislation. The Senate slots are more or less taken for decade at a time. Schumer is the minority leader, he isn't giving up his Senate seat. Gillebrand is not giving up her Senate seat. So to say that up and coming politicians should avoid the governor's seat is really shortsighted.

 

[Abounder]

I wasn't aware NYC governors exclusively ran the DNC.

Maybe if it was just some governor, but she has a name and it's Hillary Clinton - you know the one that already ran twice for president, while having the backing of pretty much every big Dem and donor for decades and etc. The same person(s) that abandoned the 50 state strategy and had less than half the field offices Obama did in battleground states in 2012, but that's another tangent. Dem party is screwed anyway.

 

[kirblar]

He was involved in state politics, and he was there for 7 years.

There is no feasible path for a Congressperson in a Democratic minority to create a national profile. They aren't going to be authoring legislation or blocking legislation. The Senate slots are more or less taken for decade at a time. Schumer is the minority leader, he isn't giving up his Senate seat. Gillebrand is not giving up her Senate seat. So to say that up and coming politicians should avoid the governor's seat is really shortsighted.

It''s not shortsighted in the least- there's a simple solution - move.

If you want a national profile for a presidential campaign, the NY Gov's office is not how you get it..

Maybe if it was just some governor, but she has a name and it's Hillary Clinton - you know the one that already ran twice for president, while having the backing of pretty much every big (D) for decades and etc. The same person(s) that abandoned the 50 state strategy and had less than half the field offices Obama did in battleground states in 2012, but that's another tangent. Dem party is screwed anyway.

Obama abandoned the 50-state strategy after he won in '08.

 

[studyguy]

Great, another state that will get a Republican Governor.

I wonder when people say this if they realize the Republican bench has dudes like Carl Paladino sitting on it for the governorship.

You know,

“I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla.”

In regards to Michelle Obama.

That guy... Like come on. Get some context.

 

[Incognito]

time for new blood.

 

[Blader]

Maybe if it was just some governor, but she has a name and it's Hillary Clinton - you know the one that already ran twice for president, while having the backing of pretty much every big (D) for decades and etc. The same person(s) that abandoned the 50 state strategy and had less than half the field offices Obama did in battleground states in 2012, but that's another tangent. Dem party is screwed anyway.

The 50-state strategy is a party operation. It was Kaine and DWS who moved away from it.

 

[DragonSworne]

I wonder when people say this if they realize the Republican bench has dudes like Carl Paladino sitting on it for the governorship.

You know,

In regards to Michelle Obama.

That guy... Like come on. Get some context.

Dudes who beat Clinton once won't beat her again?

 

[kirblar]

Dudes who beat Clinton once won't beat her again?

Clinton's never been defeated in a statewide election in NY.

 

[legacyzero]

I am not really interested in a discourse that categorizes political correctness and "identity politics" as missteps.

In themselves, they aren't the missteps. It was The way they were used.

That's that closed-minded mentality I was just talking about. We're doing reeeeal great on the way to 2020 at the moment it seems.

 

[noshten]

Another interesting point wrt Feingold is that he actually won a lot of the traditionally blue counties in western Wisconsin that Trump flipped this year, just not by a large enough margin to save him from the Clinton-Johnson suburbanites. A Clinton campaign that tried to go get the traditional Democrats to remember why they are Democrats probably would have actually pushed him (and her) over the top.
.

Clinton's campaign was too busy flipping Republicans, Neocons and Republican donors

Let me remind people what Clinton's campaign did instead of appealing to unions and youth:

Hillary Clinton looks to win Republican voters in Ohio

The area has not voted for a Democrat since 1916. In 2012, Republican nominee Romney won the county by 61 percent, and in 2008, John McCain won 59 percent of the vote in the county.

Delaware County might not be friendly to Democrats, but it isn’t a hotbed of the kind of white working class grievance that has fueled Trump’s campaign. The median income in 2014 here was $91,936, and over 50 percent of the population has a college degree.

For the Clinton campaign, peeling off white Republican voters here could counters Trump’s potential gains with downscale white voters in more rural areas of Ohio.

Republicans for Hillary? Clinton campaign woos those lost by Trump

The Clinton campaign has been preparing for its Republican outreach effort for months. Around the start of the conventions, it went into gear. Since then, notable Republicans, military leaders and one GOP congressman have abandoned Trump and cast their lot with Clinton. Framing their defections as a moral imperative, the converts are urging fellow Republicans and independents to put “country over party” and join them on 8 November.

Ever since Trump claimed his party’s nomination, Republican-backed groups for Clinton have cropped up. Among them are Republicans for Her 2016, founded by the lobbyist Craig Snyder; Republican Women for Hillary, led by Jennifer Pierotti Lim, director of health policy for the US Chamber of Commerce; and a grassroots group, R4C16, led by John Stubbs and Ricardo Reyes, former officials in the George W Bush administration.

One veteran Republican consultant, Reed Galen, doubts Clinton’s campaign can overcome 25 years of mistrust among Republican voters, especially those who remember her husband’s administration.

“The trend of crossing party lines is happening among GOP elites – the establishment types – and GOP elected officials who are in safe districts or retired,” Galen said. “I can’t see there being a whole lot of crossover from rank-and-file Republicans.”

Hillary Clinton is looking for Republican voters with new TV ads

Hillary Clinton has made no secret of her desire to win over some Republican voters disillusioned with Donald Trump.

Now her campaign is releasing a series of videos that highlight Republicans who plan to vote for Clinton.

Here's one of them, featuring a woman who once worked with the party to elect former President Reagan.

The four videos are being run nationally on cable news channels and locally in battleground states.

They come on the heels of a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll that showed Clinton has more support among Democrats than Trump does among Republicans. While 85% of Democrats surveyed said they would back Clinton, only 72% said the same about Trump.

Its amazing how many bad moves a single campaign is able to generate running against Trump.

 

[B-Dubs]

Dudes who beat Clinton once won't beat her again?

Yes, Paladino is going to become NY governor if Clinton runs. Nevermind that he's hated by the entire state, already lost badly, and would be lucky to pull 30% of the vote again.

Do you not know anything about NYS politics?

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Clinton's never been defeated in a statewide election in NY.

Not sure this is the biggest accomplishment, she came into a primary with a ton of resources and name recognition and then won a GE in a safe blue seat. People are usually more willing to flip parties for governorships (see: Massachusetts)

I think she'd win if she ran for this too, but I'd rather she didn't run.

Edit: OH WAIT I'M A DUMMY and didn't read what you were replying too, yeah Paladino isn't going to beat Clinton lol

 

[numble]

It''s not shortsighted in the least- there's a simple solution - move.

If you want a national profile for a presidential campaign, the NY Gov's office is not how you get it.

You would tell the Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul to move somewhere else so that Clinton could run for governor? Or tell her to wait for a Senate seat to open up? It isn't a logical way to run the party. You want to try to push strong up and coming politicians in as many national profile spots as you can.

And carpetbagging rarely works. Would you tell Jason Kander to move to California and run for Feinstein's Senate seat in 2018? It's simply not how politicians work.

 

[Blader]

In themselves, they aren't the missteps. It was The way they were used.

That's that closed-minded mentality I was just talking about. We're doing reeeeal great on the way to 2020 at the moment it seems.

There is nothing open-minded about discounting the rights and dignities of minorities as political liabilities.

 

[SlimySnake]

#Iamwithhernomore

She lost to fucking trump. She left us with trump. She can try and make ny a liberal utopia but none of that is going to matter when trump crashes and burns everything.

If these guys and by guys i mean Obama as well, if these guys want to do something, spend the next four years making sure trump is either impeached, indicted or at the very least loses the next election.

Hire investigators, hire entire agencies, expose his tax returns, his dealings with Russia. Make his life hell. Don't go to his fucking inauguration ffs. He called you a nasty woman, brought your husband's accusers to the debate and made racist birther remarks about you. Have some self respect.

 

[Crocodile]

I mean if there was some amazing, younger candidate with an excellent head on their shoulders, great plans, had a chance of making it out of the NY Governor's office without being chewed up and could have a decent shot at the presidency in 4/8/12 years than sure, I don't think anyone would be opposed to them running.

But like, we aren't talking about hypotheticals here but rather reality.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that - Clinton and Cuomo are actually people we can talk about since they exist and we know them. Magic Unicorn candidate X would be awesome but we don't know them yet (if they exsist - they certainly could) so we can't talk about them yet.

I wonder when people say this if they realize the Republican bench has dudes like Carl Paladino sitting on it for the governorship.

90% of the people posting in this thread have never stepped foot in NY nor do they give a shit about NY politics

 

[B-Dubs]

Not sure this is the biggest accomplishment, she came into a primary with a ton of resources and name recognition and then won a GE in a safe blue seat. People are usually more willing to flip parties for governorships (see: Massachusetts)

I think she'd win if she ran for this too, but I'd rather she didn't run.

Edit: OH WAIT I'M A DUMMY and didn't read what you were replying too, yeah Paladino isn't going to beat Clinton lol

The thing is, the NYS GOP has no decent candidates left. They've all been killed off. I mean, they keep running the same lady for Senate over and over again. The exact same lady. She's literally jousting at windmills but they can't find anyone else to replace her.

 

[kirblar]

You would tell the Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul to move somewhere else so that Clinton could run for governor? Or tell her to wait for a Senate seat to open up? It isn't a logical way to run the party. You want to try to push strong up and coming politicians in as many national profile spots as you can.

And carpetbagging rarely works. Would you tell Jason Kander to move to California and run for Feinstein's Senate seat in 2018? It's simply not how politicians work.

If Hochul could leverage Cuomo out, they'd probably be going that direction already.

 

[studyguy]

90% of the people posting in this thread have never stepped foot in NY nor do they give a shit about NY politics

I mean I live in CA but not 5 minutes of reading about a gubernatorial race will illuminate a ton regarding potential candidates. Again there's too much smoke about the primary/general and not enough focus about strictly holding a solid blue state with a governorship historically fraught with all kinds of awful shit that can trip up lesser experienced people.

 

[legacyzero]

There is nothing open-minded about discounting the rights and dignities of minorities as political liabilities.

It seems like you're not even reading my posts at this point.

 

[B-Dubs]

You would tell the Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul to move somewhere else so that Clinton could run for governor? Or tell her to wait for a Senate seat to open up? It isn't a logical way to run the party. You want to try to push strong up and coming politicians in as many national profile spots as you can.

And carpetbagging rarely works. Would you tell Jason Kander to move to California and run for Feinstein's Senate seat in 2018? It's simply not how politicians work.

Hochul has like 0 clout, she can't do it. The only person in the state who could conceivably begin to challenge Cuomo is Schniderman and he'd still probably lose. Short of Chuck Schumer resigning from the Senate to force him out Clinton's the only one big enough to do it.

 

[Rentahamster]

Jeez folks, she can run if she wants to. It's a free country.

 

[Gattsu25]

I am not really interested in a discourse that categorizes political correctness and "identity politics" as missteps.

When did people start referring to civil rights as identity politics, anyway?

 

[Futureman]

#Iamwithhernomore

She lost to fucking trump. She left us with trump. She can try and make ny a liberal utopia but none of that is going to matter when trump crashes and burns everything.

Not true. Sure give up if you want, but blue states are going to lead the charge in not letting Trump do whatever he wants. Blue states/cities are going to be very important for environmental issues the next few years.

 

[Crocodile]

When did people start referring to civil rights as identity politics, anyway?

It has always been a not so subtle talking point but it really blew up November 9th from white liberals

 

[Muppet of a Man]

NY is a blue state, so she should win.

It's looking more like the USA will be divided pretty heavily along state lines now, as opposed to one united country with common, blanket federal laws across the land.

States like California, NJ, NY, etc... will attract the progressive/liberals and states like Texas and North Carolina will attract the Alt-Right conservatives.

Instead of a national healthcare plan, you'll have to settle for state healthcare plans. So, get ready to pick up and move, depending on your political leanings and economic needs.

This is what's most likely to happen. Sad it had to come to this.