ProfessorLobo
Banned
So is there a result here? What happened to the bakery?
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Christian Cake Company Refuses to Create Cake for Group in Support of Gay Marriage
- Thread starter Deaf Spacker
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BlueBadger
Banned
I don't quite understand why either tbh :S.
Pops Maellard
Member
I was raised in a catholic family, and one of the things I distinctly remember being hammered into me at a very young age (by both my family and the church) was that it's never acceptable to lie to someone unless doing so would prevent "hurting their feelings".
CyclopsRock
Member
They got a letter. They haven't been charged with a crime (yet), nor are they necessarily liable to be successful sued (though obviously that doesn't stop one from trying).
whats wrong with that post
once your religion encourages you to discriminate against people thats pretty fucking bad
888
Member
So if I walk into a McDonald's with no shirt and shoes they have to serve me? I know it isn't on par with the same topic. These people didn't toss them out of the bakery, they said they didn't feel comfortable making the cake. If the Christians went into a LGBT bakery knowingly and asked them to make a cake that was obviously not in line with their beliefs and they said politely they would not feel comfortable doing it, would we be having this same conversation?
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
I'm a Christian and never once have I been encouraged to discriminate against people. Of any kind. Gay, straight, confused, or otherwise. Ever.
Sweeping generalizations are just the best, aren't they?
I'd still be saying it's discrimination. As long as the cake didn't have hate speech on it, it's terrible to refuse a design because it is religious.
I'm trying to think of a cake that would offend LGBT people but all I can think of is a cake that says "God hates gays", which is pretty different from a queer couple requesting a cake for a wedding. I can't see any reasonable queer folks turning down making a cake just because it's got a cross on it or something.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Over here I regularly go to food places that have signs requesting that customers do not enter the premises without a t-shirt on etc.
that post specifically says that "if you're ____ religion and that religion encourages you to discriminate against _____ person and if you ascribe to that belief then yes, you're discriminatory."
it doesn't say that ALL people of that religious sect is homophobic
As a liberal, gay-rights supporting parent who has had to watch a lot of Sesame Street -- I hate any sexualization of their characters. The bakery should have refused the cake because Bert and Ernie are kids, in the same way they shouldn't make a cake of Oscar the Grouch feeling up Abby Cadaby. (that would be a hetero couple, for those of you without kids)
GingerNathan
Member
I keep seeing this, the thread title is misleading. It wasn't a wedding cake, and it wasn't for a Gay couple.
Liamario
Banned
I have no problem with it insofar as it's their decision to make.
A similar incident happened in Rep. of Ireland in a popular stationary shop. The owner refused to stock gay cake toppers. Needless to say, there was massive backlash and he no longer owns the shop.
http://jrnl.ie/1107532
I wish bakeries would stop making political statements with their cakes, like when they have a man and a woman figure as part of the decoration. Do they really need to be pushing straight marriage on people? Hell, let's not even get started when you have political cakes pushing marriage between different social classes, or *gasp*, interracial marriage.
888
Member
How about a cake saying (I just did a google search to find something) "Bring back the 1996 DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act)"
I would imagine someone could be offended by that considering the fight to legalize same sex marriages. But I digress if I am wrong.
One that has a slogan on it saying "man and woman - as it was meant to be" or something to that effect. I wouldn't fault a LGBT bakery fornot making tthat cake same way I don't fault these guys.
Read their previous posts and the responses to them. If you don't see a pattern, there's not much more I can say.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Uh yeah the church definitely doesn't teach that. All their teachings relate to bible passages, and nothing like that exist.
crazygambit
Member
Good thing the store didn't discriminate against them then. They refused a commission for a cake, they didn't refuse service.
These are both pretty good, but although the cake had a gay-positive slogan, there's a difference between supporting a cause and supporting a cause by being negative about others. :/ I dunno. Being queer obviously colors my feelings on this.
Yeah, I should have read the article before jumping in. My bad.
I laughed really hard at this though
Because supporting gay marriage is totally comparable to porn and bad language. Nice.
lol this is the worst defense. don't post like this.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Figure out what a protected class is. Being Matthew McConaguay and walking around shirtless is not a protected class. Black people or gay people can't just put on a shirt.
Indeed. From the article:
"Muir, the outgoing mayor of North Down and a gay member of the centrist Alliance party, said the Bert and Ernie cake was for an event he was hosting in the constituency in May. He said it was ordered to coincide with the International Day Against Homophobia on 17 May."
This wasn't for a wedding, it wasn't a wedding cake. The cake as pictured on other sites (sorry , on mobile so no links) is basically a rectangular sheet cake with Burt and Ernie, the message "Support Gay Marriage" across the top, and the queerSpace logo and "Born 1998" in the middle.
It's basically a political fliar on a cake.
888
Member
Again tho they turned down a job for a cake design. They didn't say they wouldn't make a cake for the couple just not that particular cake. Perhaps we all don't have every facts. Maybe they did turn down the cake because of the couple themselves, maybe not.
crazygambit
Member
Legally, it should be the best defense. As far as people boycotting or PR, people are free to do whatever they want.
AdventureMike
Member
Mmm...that particular quote, I'm not sure he was trying to compare gay marriage to those though. It sounds more like he was trying to prove that he has refused other orders as well, not just ones dealing with gay marriage.
Escape Goat
Member
I want to see the cake.
GingerNathan
Member
While I don't agree with the bakery's stance, in this instance I think they had a right to choose.
Deified Data
Banned
It's a less grievous sin than hate, and a lot easier on the conscience.
Yeah, my response would be "we're a bakery and we don't want an edible political flier attributed to our business".
vas_a_morir
Banned
Yeah, this is actually a fair point... I grew up Presbyterian and never experienced any of the fanatical hateful shit that other people talk about in church. Presbyterians are relatively disinterested in the lives of other people.
This is a fair point, too. You might not want to create any controversial cakes. Like Swastika, fetishes, Pro/Anti Israel, Abortion, and so on. I don't think it's fair to force anybody to do anything they don't want to do. I'm tolerant. In the same way, people have a choice where they choose to buy their goods, and if it offends you, you are free to take your business elsewhere. In fact, if it makes you that upset, I think you should. Use your dollar to change the world around you.
Escape Goat
Member
Presbyterians recently voted to allow gay marriages too.
AnAngryPillock
Neo Member
They're not refusing to serve them because they're gay, they're refusing to make that specific cake. Same thing if a straight person went in there and asked the bakery to make a porn themed cake or something along those line.
Not sure how much more clear cut it has to be. Cake was commissioned by a politician for an event that has a specific agenda. How can you force someone to create a work that they don't support in? The design isn't even subtle, why would you take it to a known religious business and be surprised you might be refused? It's like you're looking to pick a fight.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Yeah, but believe it or not, more people are upset in the church about the Israel decision by far. That's causing a huge stink.
Escape Goat
Member
Bert and Ernie are now on the same level as pornography?
But they can put on a beard! Hey-o!
Based on the image a few pages back of what they wanted on the cake, it sounds like they weren't asking for an artist to render their vision. It sounds to me more like one of those print-a-picture-on-a-cake jobs. And yeah, I feel like a print shop shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on political grounds.
If a print shop owned by a Democrat were asked to print out a Romney 2012 poster, then yeah, he should have to do it (barring other factors, eg the shop was already running at capacity, legitimately profane requests, etc.). Fox shouldn't be able to deny Democrats a fair shot at buying their ad space.
How dare you lower B&E to the same levels as mere pornography. Their mere existence is hardcore pornagraphic. They themselves are pornithalogical level 6.
Deified Data
Banned
This is a good point. Where do we draw the line between a cake that a bakery should reasonably be allowed to refuse (for whatever reason - in this case the cake is ugly as hell) and a bakery refusing a cake because the customers requesting it are gay? I support the former and oppose the latter, but how do you tell the difference?
AdventureMike
Member
The cake in question was more than just bert and ernie.
gay marriage is not porn or vulgar, or the equivalent to it.
AnAngryPillock
Neo Member
I didn't say it was on the same level, it was just an example about how they can refuse to make any damn cake they don't want to make. Plus to those store owners porn and gay marriage are on the same level.
AdventureMike
Member
Like it or not, in northern ireland, gay marriage is a controversial and contentious topic. The surrounding area is heavily religious. The request was going to ruffle feathers in the region. He was trying to state that the request would be treated as a controversial topic in a religious bakery in that area.
ab.aeterno
Member
Equating a textual support for gay marriage, a logo of an advocacy group, and a cheeky depiction of characters to fucking pornography is an exceptionally silly and disingenuous comparison. It undermines whatever point is being made.
Good idea... im going to sue some jewish bakeries around here for not creating my shellfish cake.
So they can refuse to make a pornographic cake because it is against their morals, but have to make a gay cake that is also against their morals?
Yes. Refusing to make a porn cake and refusing to make a gay cake are completely different, even if the reasoning to do so is the same.
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