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[racooon]

I have not been proved wrong once in this thread in anything that isn't grammar. I've seen people here defend heliocentrism (really, XXI century???), not understanding the scientific method, considering theories as proven facts numerous times, saying Galileo made a relativism theory (what?), etc. And insulting me personally.

Pro tip; scientific consensus IS proven fact.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I've seen plenty of people with a Masters in Divinity now know even the simplest things. Ian Punnett, who hosts Coast to Coast AM on the weekends has a Masters in Divinity and still makes the most facepalm-inducing claims about the Bible on a regular basis.

How about instead of just saying 'Read Job' you actually supple a section that you'd like me to read which you beleive may have relevance to what I said. You may as well hae said 'Read the Bible'.

 

[krypt0nian]

Umm evolution doesnt say man evolved from monkeys but that both share a common ancestor.

You are wasting your time. He's way too far gone.

 

[Twilight Princess]

And that is fine. Just realize HE isn't holding you to a higher standard than he holds himself to. You are. You are holding yourself to a standard he never made, and then suggesting he is doing so. He clearly has no issues with killing of itself, given he repeatedly commanded the Israelites to do so.

And I would agree with you that a parent has no rights to do whatever they wish to their children, but would say that is because as his creation, only God retains that right, over all of us.

For an example, see the story of Abraham and his son Isaac. Abraham had no right to kill Isaac, but God considered it within his rights to command Abraham to do so. Only God retains the right to kill (or command the killing) of people, because we are his creation. Yes, even children he gives you.

I'd venture to guess in smaller matters you'd understand this principle. Let me ask this. Were you to fashion something out of modelling clay, would you be within your rights to press it back in to a ball and reform it?

so, we are pretty much like animals put into a zoo. we must obey god and god can punish us in whatever way it sees fit when we act like bad zoo animals. if god's having a bad day, it is ok to kill us because the physical body isn't all that impressive in god's standards anyway.
what about mental suffering brought by the killing? clearly god has no problem with causing people to suffer continuously, after all, we are just clay figures made by god anyway, i suppose it is within its right to torture people mentally.
and it also loves you? i suppose, in some sadistic way?

 

[PoliceCop]

Your first assessment doesn't make sense, the orbit of the sun around the Earth is exactly the same as the orbit of the Earth around the Sun.

Dear Lord. Do you understand the concepts of mass and gravity?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I have not been proved wrong once in this thread in anything that isn't grammar. I've seen people here defend heliocentrism (really, XXI century???), not understanding the scientific method, considering theories as proven facts numerous times, saying Galileo made a relativism theory (what?), etc. And insulting me personally.


A common monkey ancestor, I'm speaking of the family of the monkeys here, which includes apes. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

No, just a common ancestor.

 

[WillyFive]

Glad I was able to have a hand in this thread before it fell apart.

so, we are pretty much like animals put into a zoo. we must obey god and god can punish us in whatever way it sees fit when we act like bad zoo animals. if god's having a bad day, it is ok to kill us because the physical body isn't all that impressive in god's standards anyway.
what about mental suffering brought by the killing? clearly god has no problem with causing people to suffer continuously, after all, we are just clay figures made by god anyway, i suppose it is within its right to torture people mentally.
and it also loves you? i suppose, in some sadistic way?

You find no difference between having a child and having a pet? That's terrible.

 

[Haly]

No, I think he means relative to a person standing on earth, the motion of the sun across the sky is identical to the motion of the earth for someone standing on the sun.

But that's not what orbit means. An orbit is a physical phenomenon. If I recall correctly The sun does in fact orbit around the earth but the path is so slight as to be meaningless, disregarding the effects of gravity of every other body in the solar system, as well as the gravitational pull of the milky way on the solar system.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Glad I was able to have a hand in this thread before it fell apart.



You find no difference between having a child and having a pet? That's terrible.

A parent doesnt have power to stop their child from getting cancer, dying from a car accident, or dying in birth; God does have such power.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Well, I shall start with a question or 2 :

Why did Christianity divide into so many denominations ?

Rampant and institutionalized corruption all the way to the top of the catholic church didn't mesh well with the people's and more devout clergy's desire for a more simplified form of Christianity.

 

[Gorgon]

Your first assessment doesn't make sense, the orbit of the sun around the Earth is exactly the same as the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. If you model the Solar system, and "pin" the Sun, you get the Earth orbiting around it. In the same model, you can pin the Earth and voilà!. Magic!.

I have not been proved wrong once in this thread in anything that isn't grammar. I've seen people here defend heliocentrism (really, XXI century???), not understanding the scientific method, considering theories as proven facts numerous times, saying Galileo made a relativism theory (what?), etc. And insulting me personally.


A common monkey ancestor, I'm speaking of the family of the monkeys here, which includes apes. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

1) If you pin the earth, the sun will stay were it is with mercury orbiting it (mercury never orbits the earth even if you use earth as the reference point) and only mars and the other planets will "orbit" the earth in a very excentric eliptic. Both the Sun and Mercury are not affected by earth as a reference point and none of them will orbit the earth if this is stationary.

2) you can't even distinguish fact from theory, much less acuse someone of not understanding the scientific method

3) galilean relativity for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_invariance

4) no one confused theories with probven facts, only you

Dear Lord. Do you understand the concepts of mass and gravity?

Do you really think he does?

 

[Wyndstryker]

Checking in to this thread. Saw it go every which way which is not surprising since I know that religious beliefs are always a touchy subject.

I'm Christian, although I do wish I had better understanding of the Bible and so forth I do know that I have been put on this path out of my own choice. I was raised Christian, although I had my own issues with it during my teenage years, and eventually tumbled into a proverbial hell and it was only until I started looking back that things started getting back together.

I just wanted to say this to people cause this is really how I see whats going on in this thread, if you're coming into the debate to say a point and challenge a persons belief or coming into the debate without even considering what the other person says then it's not my right to judge. But what I will say is that it's everyone's choice to believe in God or not and don't shove any views down other peoples throat because that is trying to force someone to change their views against their choice.

I really just want the discussion to be civil with as little bias as possible. It's ok to bring your viewpoints in, but don't automatically say the other is wrong. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want to believe. I'd love to say what I view things but like I said I'm not that well versed in scripture and all the fancy knowledge stuff. I only know the basics which is pretty much to keep God first and center in life.

Good luck to you debaters and God bless regardless of views.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Rampant and institutionalized corruption all the way to the top of the catholic church didn't mesh well with the people's and more devout clergy's desire for a more simplified form of Christianity.

Even before Luther there were the Greek Orthodox, Romam Catholic, Antiochian church, and more. Luther and then Calvin in combination with the printing press just allowed it to speed up and become increasingly easy to create ones own denominatio. Lets not blame Rome for it. There was and is corruption in every denomination.

 

[threenote]

Dear Lord. Do you understand the concepts of mass and gravity?

You expect him to understand physics? He can't even formulate a logical argument.

 

[Haly]

I have no trouble with religion when it keeps to itself. I have an issue, however, when opportunists take their scripture of choice to be undeniable fact, and then use it as leverage to manipulate the opinions less zealous but sympathetic believers. Or when people cite scripture in an argument.

Scripture should never be taken as the truth without scientifically valid evidence backing it up (see: Archaeology).

 

[PoliceCop]

The 4th grade basics would be nice.

 

[ghst]

If you're a true Bible believing Christian, then you shouldn't be surprised to see such opposition, derision, scoffers, doubters etc. on this thread or anywhere else in the world. The Bible says the anti-christ spirit is already in the world- the world is an enmity with God (its really evident in Hollywood movies and the music industry). Jesus and his words are an offense to the world because it exposes their sins. Satan blinds them from truth and the light, which is Jesus Christ. There is only one person of whom one can have the free gift of salvation and that is through Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. And if you're not with him you're against. As you can see many are against him.

satan uses his powers of planting evidence, moulding the scientific properties of our world to suit his nefarious deception and encouraging the kind of rational discourse that destroys the baseless proselytizing of christians.

sounds like a baller, jesus could learn a few things about trying to reach people from this guy.

 

[KtSlime]

You expect him to understand physics? He can't even formulate a logical argument.

Faraday is the man, he knows his stuff.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

This is the sort of craziness I come to GAF for!

I know! that was probably the most awesome post in the history of GAF

 

[bonesmccoy]

I
I mean think about it... there can be a thread about Buddhism, Wicca, New Age, Hinduism or even Islam on any secular forum and you'll see very minimal "trolling." But make a Christianity thread you got to duck for cover from the shots fired. Just more evidence for me the Bible is the true Word of God.

That's probably because most of the posters on GAF are from the West, which is historically Christian and only very recently been experiencing religious plurality.

LovingSteam: I guess you missed my question before, so I'll ask it again.

With the tragedy you experienced in mind, what is your understanding of the Pasche/Passion? What do you think about the role of Mary?

 

[AndresON777]

you guys suck stop listening to the pharisees

lol

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

satan uses his powers of planting evidence, moulding the scientific properties of our world to suit his nefarious deception and encouraging the kind of rational discourse that destroys the baseless proselytizing of christians.

sounds like a baller, jesus could learn a few things about trying to reach people from this guy.

Naw. When Jesus and Satan where kickin it in the desert Satan was all like, "Dude, just give me mad props, and the world is yours." and Jesus was all like "My dad owns it all, I'll get it eventually." and they have never been on good terms sense.

 

[Kaizer]

Checking In. Just wanted to say that while I consider myself a Christian (Baptist to be exact), I use the term very loosely. I stopped going to Church when I was about 11 yrs. old and haven't been since, although I do read the bible from time to time. I also still pray over meals and at bedtime. I also did some mission work last summer in Costa Rica helping to paint Churches and fix up gardens while on a school trip. I think part of it had to do with the fact that Church seemed more about donating money so they could buy more Flatscreen TV's and trying to snatch up as many kids as possible for their youth choirs than honest worship. I'd consider what I believe in/my religious values as more Agnostic-Christian. While I believe fully in Jesus Christ, Heaven, etc. I also don't discount the possibility of other religions being true. So if for some reason it turned out Christianity proved to be false, I wouldn't be freaking out. I feel like no one truly knows anything until we die, so it doesn't really matter to me what religious or scientific values people carry. I'm not out to judge anyone. Life is too short to argue over what could be completely subjective or true, just enjoy the ride imo.

I've never liked how some Christians are "pushy" with their views, it's annoying as hell and embrassing. My biggest gripe has always been with homosexuality. I'm the kind of person that believes that people should have the freedom to do with they want with their lives and no one should really judge. I've got friends I've all races, religions and sexual views. I choose to not live my life around religion but rather to integrate religion into my life. I'd say I'm pretty happy overall.

 

[PoliceCop]

I know! that was probably the most awesome post in the history of GAF

I want credit for the assist.

 

[hellclerk]

Even before Luther there were the Greek Orthodox, Romam Catholic, Antiochian church, and more. Luther and then Calvin in combination with the printing press just allowed it to speed up and become increasingly easy to create ones own denominatio. Lets not blame Rome for it. There was and is corruption in every denomination.

No, Rome's pretty much to blame for most of it. Of course, everyone else was being petty and self-righteous, so it's not like I put ALL the blame on Rome for 1054, thought it was mostly based on Rome claiming that it's primacy meant it was the boss of all the other Sees while everyone else just said it meant we listen to you.

On the protestant side, it was rampant corruption in the lower levels of Church and the upper levels enabling them with their own corruption and people just being fed up about it. Martin Luther got excommunicated for pointing it out and thus started the whole line. A lot of bad theology got made off of that precedent, but hey, what can you do.

For the record, I'm Eastern Rite Catholic. I know my history and theology well, am a trained skeptic, but still believe in God. manueldelalas is an embarrassment to everything in this thread, that he might be so arrogant as to have such a limited view of the universe.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I have no trouble with religion when it keeps to itself. I have an issue, however, when opportunists take their scripture of choice to be undeniable fact, and then use it as leverage to manipulate the opinions less zealous but sympathetic believers. Or when people cite scripture in an argument.

Scripture should never be taken as the truth without scientifically valid evidence backing it up (see: Archaeology).

The problem is with Sola Scriptura, not with the Bible as a teaching or historical document. The Catholic Church advises that the books/letters of the Bible are disparate: Some are indeed allegorical (Genesis), some are Historical, some are Biographical, and some are Prophetic. It also advises to understand that these documents were written by someone, and are not the direct Word of God. That is to say, the Church tells its own to understand what they're reading and not attempt to apply it as a literal guide to the topic de jour.

A great deal, if not completely all, the anti-science nonsense you'll find spit from a Christian mouth is rooted in the tradition of Sola Scriptura.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

That's probably because most of the posters on GAF are from the West, which is historically Christian and only very recently been experiencing religious plurality.

LovingSteam: I guess you missed my question before, so I'll ask it again.

With the tragedy you experienced in mind, what is your understanding of the Pasche/Passion? What do you think about the role of Mary?

Not sure in what context you are asking my opinion of it in. Mary lost her son but Jesus chose to die. If you beleive in the faith aspect of the gospels than his death benefited millions of others which cpuld give Mary a peace of mind that his death had a purpose. My daughter didnt have the choice in her death and neither did my wife or I. The only one who had the power to decide was God.

 

[Haly]

The problem is with Sola Scriptura, not with the Bible as a teaching or historical document. The Catholic Church advises that the books/letters of the Bible are disparate: Some are indeed allegorical (Genesis), some are Historical, some are Biographical, and some are Prophetic. It also advises to understand that these documents were written by someone, and are not the direct Word of God. That is to say, the Church tells its own to understand what they're reading and not attempt to apply it as a literal guide to the topic de jour.

A great deal, if not completely all, the anti-science nonsense you'll find spit from a Christian mouth is rooted in the tradition of Sola Scriptura.

This is another thing I take issue with religion. When you have the church itself saying this you should probably consider reevaluating your views, but a lot of people don't for whatever reason.

It seems like their belief is completely self-serving, which in turn makes anything coming out of their mouths seem twisted and hypocritical.

 

[WillyFive]

A parent doesnt have power to stop their child from getting cancer, dying from a car accident, or dying in birth; God does have such power.

I hope you are not offended, but I did have this conversation before with another user (these conversations have reruns all the time, just with different posters), and if you don't mind, I would like to repost what I said in a previous discussion about this. It goes long because the user I was talking with also gave good rebuttals (which I summarized and italized), and their subsequent answers are following.

To understand why the benevolent God can allow all these terrible things to happen, you have to understand what happened for things to be this way. God created all people to live a perfect life by themselves, but since Adam and Eve disobeyed one of his orders, he punished him and those that came from him.

What he wants most is for his creation to love him, despite the chaos that has ensued by man and Satan. Even though he has omnipotence, remember that we were done of his image. We are not as far apart as people like to think.

Imagine we are talking about natural disasters. God does not cause natural disasters, he is not using them to inflict punishment. These natural occurrences have been going on since Creation. The Bible predicted those disasters (Lucas 21:10,11), but it did not mean God or Jesus or Satan were responsible for them, much like how a meteorologist is not responsible for the weather.

It is implied that we are responsible for problems resulting from those disasters, for not listening to warnings (Proverbs 22:3). Many things the Bible teaches is to be pay attention and heed warnings, so he does in fact help us with those problems. A person that stays behind on his house during a huge hurricane is going to have it tougher than one who evacuates.

But what if he had no choice? It is not God's fault, it's man's fault. While other countries enjoy great prosperity and order, third world countries do not, due to corruption. Even if the country was in an nonstrategic place for resources, trade would fix that, if it weren't for the inherent problems with politicians wanting stuff from each other. God is not going to intervene with human governments, because it is not his. You want to rule yourself, you are by yourself.

But does that mean God is allowing it to happen just 'to strengthen us'? That he is mean and evil and a jerk? The same thing happened to him! He sent his son to Earth to help and educate the Earth from Satan, as a sign of love (John 3:16), and we killed him. Those terrible things that happen to us are not to strengthen us, or to understand what others go through. He is just as sad of it happening to us as we are, which is why he publicly showed his power in ancient times, inspired the Bible, and sent his son in the first place.

But why he doesn't he still show his power now? I'm sure that would shut up all the Atheists! Because he tasked his son, and he tasked his disciples to spread the knowledge of his power, so that he wouldn't have to show it the hard way. He still listens to us, and gives opportunities for us for him to help us, but we have to realize it ourselves. It won't be worth anything if he does it all for us, as previous events showed. He wants you to believe it for yourself, because it might be taken for granted, and lead to another Adam and Eve event.

But if Satan caused everything, why didn't God stop him? That's not what a loving parent does! This is based on an opinion of what a loving parent is. Is the loving parent a good parent? A 'loving' parent would give his kid anything he wants, like give him all the candy and chocolate he wanted over real food, or buy him anything he wanted, no matter the price. But since the high amount of sugar would lead to disease, and high amount of spending would lead to financial problems, this would mean a very bad parent, even if he/she was well meaning.

But God is all-knowing, and knows the consequences. Because he loves us, he does not allow everything to be as we wanted it to be, even if it makes us angry or sad or devastated. He purged Satan from heaven, and now he is running amok on Earth. He trusts us to make the right decisions and not fall for his traps, no matter how good they are, because they will be good. (Ephesians 6:13)

 

[bonesmccoy]

good points

That's true, but after his initial reform movement, Luther himself got very caught up in the spirit of the day. He ended up just as corrupt as the rest of them.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

The problem is with Sola Scriptura, not with the Bible as a teaching or historical document. The Catholic Church advises that the books/letters of the Bible are disparate: Some are indeed allegorical (Genesis), some are Historical, some are Biographical, and some are Prophetic. It also advises to understand that these documents were written by someone, and are not the direct Word of God. That is to say, the Church tells its own to understand what they're reading and not attempt to apply it as a literal guide to the topic de jour.

A great deal, if not completely all, the anti-science nonsense you'll find spit from a Christian mouth is rooted in the tradition of Sola Scriptura.

Agreed. Sola scriptura has been a nightmare for the church. Judaism relies on tradition, the Talmud, Mishna, etc. Catolicism has tradition, rites, etc.

 

[Laurentius]

Anybody up for sharing some of their favorite scriptures?

Here's one of my favorites:

John 14: 16-19

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

I love the book of John.


LovingSteam, just out of curiosity, have you ever read "A Grief Observed" by C.S. Lewis?

 

[Morn]

I hope you are not offended, but I did have this conversation before with another user (these conversations have reruns all the time, just with different posters), and if you don't mind, I would like to repost what I said in a previous discussion about this. It goes long because the user I was talking with also gave good rebuttals (which I summarized and italized), and their subsequent answers are following.

Best post of the thread so far.

 

[Haly]

I like Psalm 23, which has been popularized by various forms of media. I was kind of disappointed when I skimmed through some other Psalms, they aren't nearly as awesome.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Not sure in what context you are asking my opinion of it in. Mary lost her son but Jesus chose to die. If you beleive in the faith aspect of the gospels than his death benefited millions of others which cpuld give Mary a peace of mind that his death had a purpose. My daughter didnt have the choice in her death and neither did my wife or I. The only one who had the power to decide was God.

I guess I'm trying to flesh out what your understanding of death, loss and tragedy was as a Christian before your daughter died. I'm sorry about not making myself clearer; it's just as a parent of 2 young children myself, I've often wondered how I would cope with the loss of my sons.

 

[Laurentius]

I like Psalm 23, which has been popularized by various forms of media. I was kind of disappointed when I skimmed through some other Psalms, they aren't nearly as awesome.

Agreed. Great scripture. Here it is, for anybody that would like to read it. (KJV).

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

 

[Sh1ner]

AHAHAHA. No. You know nothing about children. I have right here with me a 2 years old specimen (my daughter) that does all of the above and much more (a lot more than a gorilla), and is certainly thousands of times more capable then the monkey in the video.

Me knowing nothing of children as a lame attempt to undermine my position, I don't have a child of my own but I have looked after many in my time. Yes some are very smart and some are not, each is different and lovable in their own way. That was a terrible cheap shot from you there.

Here is the same section I quoted from your post earlier, I have bolded the bit that I have issues with:

The origin of man is also something completely unproven. We may share 99% of our DNA with a Gorilla (or chimpanzee, choose your favorite monkey), but the fact stands that there is more resemblance between a frog and a monkey than between monkey and man. We are a whole universe superior to monkeys. You can pick any monkey you want, train it, try to instruct him, but he would get stuck to the knowledge of a 3 year old boy. And still, there's that damn missing link that can't be found. It is really hard for me to accept that man evolves from a monkey, because of how radically different we are from them. No 3rd step, hence, it's only a theory.

You mentioned a 3 year old boy. Not your 3 year old girl you know personally. So I assumed your statement meant generally. You said pick any monkey, so I picked the first monkey I found on youtube. There are smarter monkeys than the chimp I linked to but I am not gonna go youtube searching for this debate.

By the way if you got access to the internet, time to chat on gaf, your in the 1/10th of the richest population of the planet. So your daughter would be smarter than the average child. Now generally, a 3 year old boy would have trouble with language at the level as trained monkeys have achieved in their lifetime.

You should try and meet a monkey in your lifetime outside of a zoo if you haven't already, they are smarter than you think especially in different environments such as the cities of india or in the temples there or in the jungle where a certain specifies of monkeys have learnt to use their own tools, move rocks that weigh more than their own body weight +8km to help break nuts from the trees.

The shift from a general child to your daughter in your latest post? I am gonna chalk that up to shifting goal posts.

Just for clarification, I don't think I can win this debate.

 

[hellclerk]

That's true, but after his initial reform movement, Luther himself got very caught up in the spirit of the day. He ended up just as corrupt as the rest of them.

No, he just went the same way as any other philosophical revolutionary: he got old and bitter. His theology radicalized further, but only because the Catholic Church continued to be dildos to him. Really, if Rome recognized and cracked down on Luther's complaints, hell if they just RECOGNIZED and accepted his criticisms, Luther would have probably stuck it out with the Church and very possibly become a very prominent modern theologian.

I think the only protestant church that really came about WITHOUT Rome being dildos was the Anglican Church. Then it was British Royalty being dildos, but hey, what else is new.

 

[Haly]

Best post of the thread so far.

I take issue with the justification posted by Willy, primarily because there is no way to verify it. It is simply one person's, or a group of people's interpretation of the Will of God, and is thus subject to inherent the biases or shortsightedness present in every single person. For people who find it convincing, they can rest easy in their belief. But for some others whose beliefs have been shaken to their very foundation, it is simply not enough to say "Deal with it".

That post is meant for someone who wants to believe in God and wants an argument to display to non-believers, not for someone who is questioning their faith, because it doesn't consider alternate explanations at all. For example, "God doesn't care anymore." That's simple enough, and backed by the fact that there have been no clear and verifiable displays of God's existence and dominion for the last few thousand years. Considering the globalization of humanity through advances in communication technology, now would be a better time than ever to show that He still cares, because His message can easily cross the globe with minimal effort on His part or the part of whatever prophet He chooses.

But He doesn't, why? It's unknowable. And to say you and you alone understand His thoughts and His plans seems like false propheticism, to say the least.

 

[manueldelalas]

Pro tip; scientific consensus IS proven fact.

erm no it isn't, but your statement is a proven wrong fact (I mean, really, read what you wrote, it's unbelievable).

Dear Lord. Do you understand the concepts of mass and gravity?

Do you understand the concept of relativity?

No, just a common ancestor.

Glad to see you understood

1) If you pin the earth, the sun will stay were it is with mercury orbiting it (mercury never orbits the earth even if you use earth as the reference point) and only mars and the other planets will "orbit" the earth in a very excentric eliptic. Both the Sun and Mercury are not affected by earth as a reference point and none of them will orbit the earth if this is stationary.

2) you can't even distinguish fact from theory, much less acuse someone of not understanding the scientific method

3) galilean relativity for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_invariance

4) no one confused theories with probven facts, only you

1) What I proposed is just a change of coordinates. If you can explain both the Earth's and Mercury's movement in relation to the sun, then you can explain Mercury's movement with the Earth's movement. It's not an wasy equation, but if you do it numerically, any computer today should be able to do that with ease. You could explain the whole Solar system (and universe) movement doing coordinate changes, it's not difficult.
2) There have been a number of people saying theories are facts, see the first quote on this post.
3) I stand corrected, congratulations, didn't know about that, neat.
4) see 2).

 

[Meus Renaissance]

How do people here feel about dealing with interest when it comes to finances/loans? Is it something you try to avoid or is it something you don't take part in regardless?

 

[KtSlime]

manueldelalas: What do you think of my marbles?

 

[threenote]

How do people here feel about dealing with interest when it comes to finances/loans? Is it something you try to avoid or is it something you don't take part in regardless?

That issue comes up in Islam, not Christianity.

 

[RustyNails]

That being said, I support the original purpose of this thread. Organized religion of any kind just isn't for me, but I've known many who truly use it (Christianity in particular) as a means of becoming better people and enriching the lives of others. I really can't hate on that; there aren't enough decent people in the world to be picky about why they choose not to be selfish asshats.

General Butt Naked, a Liberian cannibal warcriminal who used to drink the blood of children before going into battles, "found jesus" and turned his life upside down. Now he's an agent of peace, and maintains a shelter for children orphaned in war while at the same time educating against the evils of war and also the message of Jesus.

Watch Vice Guide To Liberia documentary here.

I think religion can be a force of good, and Gen. Butt Naked's transformation is a testament to that.

 

[Kusagari]

I mean think about it... there can be a thread about Buddhism, Wicca, New Age, Hinduism or even Islam on any secular forum and you'll see very minimal "trolling." But make a Christianity thread you got to duck for cover from the shots fired. Just more evidence for me the Bible is the true Word of God.

This is one of the most hilarious things said in this thread. It's so obvious why Christianity gets trolled more on this forum. 99% of us live in America where Christianity dominates daily life and politics. We never even hear about any of those other religions except Islam.

 

[Gorgon]

erm no it isn't, but your statement is a proven wrong fact (I mean, really, read what you wrote, it's unbelievable).

Do you understand the concept of relativity?

Glad to see you understood

1) What I proposed is just a change of coordinates. If you can explain both the Earth's and Mercury's movement in relation to the sun, then you can explain Mercury's movement with the Earth's movement. It's not an wasy equation, but if you do it numerically, any computer today should be able to do that with ease. You could explain the whole Solar system (and universe) movement doing coordinate changes, it's not difficult.

2) There have been a number of people saying theories are facts, see the first quote on this post.

3) I stand corrected, congratulations, didn't know about that, neat.

4) see 2).

I think both you, me, and everyone else in this thread knows how much spin you try to put into your former arguments after someone proves you wrong. All of a sudden, what you were trying to say wasn't really what we, dumb fucks, thought it was.

1) no, you weren't just proposing a change in coordinates. Your new statement has absolutely nothing to do with what you tried to imply in the first place, that is, that the sun orbiting the earth was equivalent to the earth orbiting the sun by changing the reference point, and it isn't. Change all you want, the sun will never orbit the earth no matter what reference point you choose.

2) and 4) fine, they were wrong

3) fine, now you could start admiting that you are wrong about 1) too because your first remark is available for everyone to see and no amount of spining is going to change what you said in the first place.

Glad to see you understood

So now you're ok that Man and the other primates evolved from a common ancestor but before you had problems with Man not looking like a monkey?!??! You know Man looks even less with that common ancestor, right?

 

[Kermit The Dog]

And how in the world the idea of the Earth being the center of the universe is worse than the idea of the Sun being the center of the universe??? Are you crazy?? If you must put a center of the universe anywhere, obviously it is the Earth, which is thousands of times more important than the Sun. The Sun is just 1 from an infinite number of stars, there is nothing relevant or especial about the Sun, except the fact that the Earth circles around it (or you could say the Sun circles the Earth, both are equally valid, just changing a point of reference). The Earth, is a planet full of life that homes the most intelligent beings of the universe, that is a fact, thus, the Earth is FAR more important than the Sun.

What is this... I don't even...?

Life on earth would cease to exist without the Sun. On the other hand, if the Earth spontaneously combusted, the Sun would be entirely unaffected and would continue on projecting its wondrous rays.

Thus, the Sun is more important than the Earth.

Simple as that.

...Right?

 

[PoliceCop]

I think religion can be a force of good, and Gen. Butt Naked's transformation is a testament to that.[/QUOTE]

Of course it can be, but part of the reason he was slaughtering kids seems to have been a religious belief that Satan granted him magical powers.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Pro tip; scientific consensus IS proven fact.

Consensus is fact, now? Please substantiate this. If that were true then we'd all still believe the earth was flat, right?

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Man, this thread is mostly awful. Sorry Christian-gaf, that you couldn't discuss things without people preaching dumb science and whatnot.