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Christianity |OT| The official thread of hope, faith and infinite love.
- Thread starter Fernando Rocker
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Christianity gets trolled because, again, the majority of GAF comes from the U.S., and more or less grew up hearing about radicals doing dumb things in the name of religion, all the way up to the highest echelons of the government.
A sizable population of GAF were also RAISED Christian, and then revoked their belief later in their life.
Of course it gets trolled, there's a very significant amount of personal anxiety and disgruntlement on this board when it comes to Christianity.
And then you make a post saying that the general criticism levied against Christianity is more reason to believe in the Word of God? Ludicrous. If anything, prolonged and persistent criticism should make you question your beliefs, rather than solidify them. It reeks of "us vs them" mentality, an attitude that is at the root of many conflicts throughout history.
A sizable population of GAF were also RAISED Christian, and then revoked their belief later in their life.
Of course it gets trolled, there's a very significant amount of personal anxiety and disgruntlement on this board when it comes to Christianity.
And then you make a post saying that the general criticism levied against Christianity is more reason to believe in the Word of God? Ludicrous. If anything, prolonged and persistent criticism should make you question your beliefs, rather than solidify them. It reeks of "us vs them" mentality, an attitude that is at the root of many conflicts throughout history.
Meus Renaissance
Member
threenote said:
My apologies. I was in a Paltalk room once and it was being discussed in a Catholic room
Fernando Rocker
Banned
Thank you for the respect I asked in the OP, Atheist-GAF.
Scientific consensus. Since we're not in the dark ages anymore, scientific consensus is as good as fact.BigNastyCurve said:
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
SenseiJinx said:
No, I haven't. Read his other stuff but haven't gotten around to that one.
Halycon said:
Who's saying that?
And why does it have to be "Deal With It"? What I wrote back then never said that you can't do anything about it. What it said was that there is a reason for what is going on, which is a response to those saying there is no reason to it.
Sure, a lot of people would like God to be the Space Police and bring justice to the world, kinda how Psalms 10:1 said. But the answer, at least in Christianity, is going to be as I said before: It's our job to live up to it.
Besides, sure, he could restart the whole thing and send another prophet and do terrifying acts of God and do the Messiah thing again (but this time with the help of Youtube and Twitter!), but then he just would be doing the same thing he already did a long time ago in the ancient times, which would contradict him letting us go on our own. You want Daddy to come back to us after we left him, essentially.
Shanadeus said:
I take more importance in how smart she is and how much I can trust her. Going primarily after sex is retarded in so many ways.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Shanadeus said:
I knew this one girl who would argue that her Christian faith had nothing against sleeping with her boyfriend, so the idea of fornication was non-existent to her. Interestingly however, I did manage to find one priest who echoed her sentiments. Paraphrasing what he said..
"A lot of couples, when they're here [at the Church] to get married, I tell them "Well if you've been together for all these years, then you are already are married".
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
The first few pages of this thread were pretty good. I'm not a Christian nor from a Christian background but I find Christian theology infinitely interesting. I don't have much to add to the discourse and will mostly remain as a reader but I hope this thread veers back to the debates and discussions within the confines of Christianity.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Fernando Rocker said:
Well what did you expect? It's probably been brought up but I wonder if the outcome of a Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim thread would garner the same reaction.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
1) I'm sorry, english is not my first language. All I tried to say was that with a simple change of coordinates you could situate the Earth in the center, I think you understood it wrong the whole time, and I apologize for it (and that's why I didn't reply to your posts about the universe having no center earlier, because it was not what I argued). I've been trying to say that heliocentrism is a stupid theory and it is not better in any way to geocentrism.Gorgon said:
3) I'm fine when admitting being wrong when I'm wrong, i see no fault in it, and I think a lot of people should do that, still that is not the point I wanted to argue about Galileo.
The last point, what I've been saying is that it is difficult for me that men and monkeys come from the same ancestor, not because of the physical similitude (which is admirable, many human beings are very alike some monkeys I know). I even said that human and apes shared like 99% of DNA code. Ths physical similarities between man and monkey are obvious, we are very alike; physically a chimpanzee resembles more a man than a orangutan (IMO of course, even if it's wrong, please try to get the point). Even though there this similarities, a human differs greatly from other monkeys and apes in a great way. They are FAR more intelligent, the difference between the reasoning of man and that of apes is much more than the difference in intellect from say a chimpazee and a frog. That's why I have difficult accepting the theory of a common ancestor, because of how radically different we are.
Fernando Rocker said:
I respect you as a human, just not some of the 'out there' beliefs. It's nice to say we should have freedom of religion, but when religion attempts to subvert secular thought, the correct course of action for the secularists is not to simply say "Well, we did say they could believe whatever they wanted". Education is the only means we have from freeing people from believing ancient ghost stories.
If this was a thread talking about cool parts of the Bible, or writing fanfic, drawing awesome pictures, etc based off of the Bible as a work of literature that would be one thing. But to go around promoting these stories as the truth, and encourage people to form policy around these stories while at the same time claiming you don't want to infringe on seculars rights is asinine and needs to come to an end.
Gorgon
Member
racooon said:
Yes, but it isn't fact and it's widely accepted that consensus change. Irrespetic of individual scientific positions, consensus isn't a fact and is expected to eventually change, amd it has done so in the past.
this part is important:
So it's not as good as fact, and it has been shown wrong many times.
Laurentius
Member
LovingSteam said:
I love it for how candid it is -- they were from journal entries after his wife died. Almost painful to read. He talks about how despite everything he had written and believed about Christianity, it almost came crashing down on him when his wife died. He finds some measure of peace and understanding by the end, but you can still tell it wasn't a full resolution.
It was powerful for me, reading those words from such a profound Christian author. It showed such a human side of him. He truly believes, but the pain of that loss caused him to doubt at the very least the goodness of God for a time. I believe he found a measure of peace in it and certainly regained his faith before he died, but you can tell how it shook him.
I just like the stark honesty in it. Nothing about "it's fine, she's in a better place now" or "I guess it's just part of God's plan". It was his honest emotions.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Theories are supported by facts, btw....People seem to get this wrong...ivedoneyourmom said:
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
racooon said:
Clearly you didn't read the OP.
edit: it's funny because you are doing exactly what you hate.
If you believe in that interpretation, then it means you must also reject other interpretations. Unless you maintain belief in multiple interpretations? Because if not then it means you find it the most convincing, and if you use it as in an argument then it means you take it as fact. And if you take it as fact then, well, you might as well be asserting your opinion as truth.Willy105 said:
But that's what "Deal with it" implies doesn't it? That the responsibility lies on you and no one else. Either you try to change it or you don't.
I'm not sure why you think the only way he can prove his existence is with terrifying acts of vengeance and indignation. It would be as simple as sending someone down to perform a few miracles in front of some cameras in a credible setting. Or just implanting a small message into the head of every person alive. Or just coming down in all His glory and say "Hey guys, let's stop fighting okay?". And then spending a few days to fix the current situation before going back to his heavenly throne. Or give us a newer testament more in tune with the modern age. It's pretty evident we have trouble governing ourselves. Even if your child leaves home after he graduates college, wouldn't you step in to help him if it looks like he needed it?
If we take the Genesis literally and we are all the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, then was it not their choice that drove us out of Paradise? Certainly, I had no say in it, I'm just wallowing in the consequences. Why should the children be held responsible for the sins of the parents?
Meus Renaissance said:
Ive heard that too, but the distinction between sex with a boyfriend and sex with a future husband/wife is significant according to the priest who stated it. Its in the attitude you have towards a relationship.
I think most people choose to ignore that forbidden aspect of christianity simply for convenience though. Like many other parts too unfortunately. Pick and choose what is suitable to your lifestyle.
Fernando Rocker said:
It was a good try but it's not happen bud. People just come in here and troll over and over. Unless everyone just ignores the people that are here just to ruffle feathers, this thread was pretty much destined to fail. Not saying everyone here is trolling, there are some with genuine questions, and want discussion, but let's face it a lot aren't in this thread for that.
Anyways, Catholic here. I loved going to church in Mexico when I was younger, but I stopped going less and less when I moved to the US. I'm not quite sure why. I still go every once in a while though.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
JCredeems said:
This is as poor of a statement as those who say that Christianity/Catholicism being the most popular religion in terms of numbers is more evidence that the Bible is the true word of God. Or when groups like Jehovah's Witnesses use the fact that they're shrinking in number proves that the end times are coming and that the chaff is falling from the wheat. Or when any group uses any manufactured reasoning to support their belief in a particular ideology.
I believe that I speak for many both Christian and non Christian alike when I say that one of my most significant issues with evangelicals is their need to see the world as purely good vs evil, God vs Satan, Christian vs non Christian, theist vs atheist. Everything is so black and white that in their world gray is non existent. Fact of the matter is that even within the Bible, gray exists.
Christianity wasn't created within a vacuum. It developed within a particular time, place, culture, and context. Jesus asking the Pharisees whether they'd save a sheep that had fallen into a hole on the Sabbath wasn't just some what if scenario. Such a situation is mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls as being an issue that the community of Qumran had to face and they decided that the Sabbath took preeminence over the life of the animal. Jesus disagreed.
Mark starting his gospel by referring to Jesus as the true Son of God wasn't just a statement for his community, it was also a strong statement AGAINST the claim of Caesar being referred to as son of god. Paul stating that women shouldn't teach men in Timothy wasn't a statement for all churches for all time, especially when we see he also said in Corinthians that women shouldn't even speak in church and yet they also prophesied.
Fact is that by seeing the Bible as purely black and white and not allowing any gray to enter into your hermeneutic process and exegesis you're not only limiting your own understanding of what you believe to be God's word, you're also damaging the people you speak to as well. Everybody interprets the Bible since every person interprets any piece of literature they happen to read. Your life experiences, fears, dislikes, prejudices will influence how you interpret Scripture. The only way to limit how much it influences your exegesis is to be cognizant of such thoughts beforehand.
Halycon said:
What does Christianity have to do with their issues? Their issues are with people who call themselves Christians. That's a huge difference.
What are the basic tenets of Christianity? (Now I'm talking about straight from the Bible and not man made rules). It means to believe in your heart Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and confess with your mouth he died for your sins and was raised from the dead. To repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. To follow the teachings of Jesus Christ such as loving your enemies, pray for those who do harm to you, follow the commandments (honor your parents, don't lie, steal, commit adultery etc.), love your neighbors, love God with all your heart, soul, mind etc. Of course there is much more to it but that's the gist of it.
Are those really bad things? Do you really find that offensive? That's what Jesus taught.
Again, they should take their issue with the people who supposedly oppressed them in the name of Christianity than Christianity itself. This whole Christianity bashing thing is tedious and unoriginal.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Friend of a friend was like that in high school. She and her boyfriend were like rabbits, because they were "already married in the eyes of God" and "never ever going to be apart"Meus Renaissance said:
They broke up a few months ago.
Mind you, she was also completely non-denominational, in the "whatever I feel is right is what God is putting in my heart, so I'm justified in my every opinion" kind of way.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I think if you did a bit of research on the subject you might change your opinion, but I digress.manueldelalas said:
Christianity is kind of the root source of Christians.JCRedeems said:
Can you say with certainty that you've followed his teachings to the letter? And how can you be certain he said these things? You have the Bible as evidence, but I hope you at least agree that the Bible was written by people, not by God, or Jesus. It is a matter of faith that the New Testament is also the word of Jesus, and without this initial leap in faith you have nothing. I and many others question how and why Christians made that first step necessary to their belief.
I'll leave it to others to nitpick particular passages about stuff that's out of tune with modern thought. Simply put, not everything he taught would fly today. When Jesus was alive, the world was very different. People were different, the way they lived was different, the way they communicated with each other was different. It's silly to assume his teachings are universal from the first days of Creation even to the last days of existence.
I agree with this mostly. But I also enjoy debate. And this is a discussion board. If you present yourself as a target you will be bashed, that's the long and short of it. And you sounded less like an open-minded Christian who accepts science along with his faith in your first post, and more like a hardcore bible thumper who takes His word as infallible truth.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
No, why do you ask?Shanadeus said:
I think the best point for Christianity or religion may be that it can encourage people to honor their commitments when no one is looking. As far as the Bible's explanatory power, its batting average is painfully low. In fact, I'm trying to think of anything it did get right (maybe some of the kosher stuff back in the day was a decent forerunner to New York's health department restaurant ratings). Age of the earth, origin of the species, language, etc., etc.
opticalmace
Member
What kind of commitments do you mean?exwallst said:
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
I still believe that this question should be answered.Meus Renaissance said:
Jesus told us to render unto Cesar what is Cesar's. The lesson was referring to taxes, but the same holds true when it comes to the interest on a loan. You enter into a contract to borrow money with the agreement that a price is to be paid on that money. It is a service provided just like the government provides a working infrastructure for running water.
I hope this sheds some light on the subject.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
exwallst said:
To be fair the age of the earth isn't written in stone. Within Judaism there are differing views in terms of how what the Tanakh says the age of the Earth is. For many, the creation account wasn't meant to be taken literal but had more to say about the superiority of YHWH/Elohim compared to the pagan deities of Mesopotamia. Of course evangelicals would find such arguments anathema; nevertheless such an argument does exist.
I don't like this, it makes religion seem like a crutch for morality.exwallst said:
You should take responsibility for your actions and your decisions because it's the right thing to do, not because Jesus says so. And if you ask "How do you know what's right?" well, that's a question you should figure out for yourself. There's no trouble with using someone else's system of morals. After all, everyone's development is affected by the environment they live in and thus no standards are completely objective. But the chief motivation for adhering to your morals should be internal, not external.
But then you can get into stuff like "Well Jesus is in my heart" and it all goes to shit.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
At the risk of turning this into an evolution thread, I would need to see some sort of proof for that last assertion. Maybe in sheer reasoning that could be true, but you seem to be making a few unwarranted assumptions. I want to make two points here. 1) There are many different dimensions to the mind. We can talk about social IQ, emotional capacity, self-awareness, and tool use. In those aspects, a monkey's mind is far more developed than that of a frog's. 2) Without understanding the difference between our minds and the ways in which those differences could have evolved, it is impossible to say just how big of a gap it is. Even on a cursory level, I think that we are beginning to understand that the evolution of the human mind could have been the result of a few simple yet very unlikely changes that, when they occurred, opened the so-called floodgates to allow the rapid expansion in mental capacity. In other words, there might have been a road block to the evolution of an incredibly sophisticated mind that was abolished on the path to humanity.manueldelalas said:
And anyway, monkeys are at least very child-like and probably have the intelligence of a toddler. We can see part of ourselves in them. But a frog can barely even be compared to a human. It does have consciousness but doesn't have much else. Besides, there are lots of proofs for the common descent of creatures. Incredulity is not an argument.
EDIT: If you really want to argue this, then perhaps you should PM me or head to the official evolution thread, because I won't be discussing evolution in here again. This one doesn't really need another argument that barely pertains to its original intentions.
Blatant trolling is unnecessary. If you want to debate then do it rationally and respectfully, regardless of how the other side behaves. Otherwise you're no better than the hateful radicals plaguing every human institution.racooon said:
It is also exceedingly ironic to tell someone to "go somewhere else" when that's essentially what they're asking of you, and yet you ignore it anyway.
Lionheart1337
Member
It was inevitable.
teruterubozu
Member
racooon said:
But you're not humorous
So your justification for being a dick is "well I'm less of a dick than those other guys"?
And I guess all Muslims are terrorists trying to take away our freedom. Your brush, can it be any broader? I think so, let's go one step further. Since humans do stuff like rape and murder, and you are a human (at least I assume you are), then that means you must also be a rapist and murderer. You should be ashamed of yourself.
And I guess all Muslims are terrorists trying to take away our freedom. Your brush, can it be any broader? I think so, let's go one step further. Since humans do stuff like rape and murder, and you are a human (at least I assume you are), then that means you must also be a rapist and murderer. You should be ashamed of yourself.
opticalmace
Member
Admitting you were trolling?racooon said:
Wyndstryker
Member
I think the general consensus here is, even if you're Christian or not, you're trolling this thread and everyone is saying "get out".
Then keep your dark knight shit out of the white knight thread. Don't expect to enter into a thread to make comments insensitive to those the thread was made for and expect to not be called out on trolling. You're being a greater hypocrite than manueldelalas and his incoherent bad theology. Be mad at those who use Christianity for un-Christian means in their proper threads, like in poli-GAF or whatever other thread. This is a thread for Christians to discuss their faith with other Christians on the same level, something you are incapable of doing with me. You are incapable of going toe-to-toe with me theologically because you're just some bitter armchair internet atheist trolling on the basis of a limited and 2nd grade understanding of Christian theology. Prove me wrong. I really want you to.racooon said:
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