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Christianity |OT| The official thread of hope, faith and infinite love.

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Yujin

Banned
TaeOH said:
Please explain. Add some context.

Sure. If I commit a crime and the victim forgives me for it, that doesn't mean that I automatically avoid being sentenced.

If Satan had a change of heart, God could forgive him, but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass. If that were the case, why would he have not already done so?
 
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..

I identify as Christian, but I'm a pretty terrible one. Last time I went to church was Christmas eve, and I remember feeling uncomfortable there, partly because I wasn't sure I feel as strongly as other people there. I still prey, and I believe in Heaven (but not hell), but really my beliefs are pretty simple. I'm not sure if I can stand up for Christianity because I'm not really sure if I qualify. I mean, I've always identified as one, and calling myself something different feels well... off. I'm certainly not agnostic. Am I Christian?
 

nateeasy

Banned
JGS said:
Any number of things but it's mainly for entertainment purposes. Gospel music is very inspirational to me. There's something about putting your all into a song for praise that impresses me even if I don't necessary think God is moving them to sing like that.

I don't go out of my way to engage in interfaith worship. I think secular interaction is good enough but I do research religious beliefs that interest me. On occasion I have to go to a church or something to pay respects to someone I know that died or go to a wedding.

I love me some gospel music. Most recently I have been listening to Willie and Bobbie Nelson.
 

smurfx

get some go again
Yujin said:
Sure. If I commit a crime and the victim forgives me for it, that doesn't mean that I automatically avoid being sentenced.

If Satan had a change of heart, God could forgive him, but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass. If that were the case, why would he have not already done so?
would it not be insincere if he had a change of heart just so god would forgive him?
 

Stridone

Banned
shanshan310 said:
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..

I identify as Christian, but I'm a pretty terrible one. Last time I went to church was Christmas eve, and I remember feeling uncomfortable there, partly because I wasn't sure I feel as strongly as other people there. I still prey, and I believe in Heaven (but not hell), but really my beliefs are pretty simple. I'm not sure if I can stand up for Christianity because I'm not really sure if I qualify. I mean, I've always identified as one, and calling myself something different feels well... off. I'm certainly not agnostic. Am I Christian?
"Blind hate"? More like rational, well-founded hate.
 

JGS

Banned
shanshan310 said:
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..
I don't so much ignore it as much as it doesn't mean anything to me.

The reality that religion haters are wrong so much really means that most of the stuff they say doesn't apply to me to begin with. Then when they say something stupid or, to be fair, a legitimate argument, then I try to know the answer. To be clear, a lot of the discussions are purely for the entertainment/challenge purposes. So starting out enjoying the discussion makes it easier to tolerate.

Honestly, a forum where no one knows you is the best place to either not give in to peer pressure of the narrow demographic gaf caters to or to share proudly what your beliefs are. The worst case scenario is the mods banning you for being religious which I don't see happening anytime soon and if it did I'd be the better for it not to assoiciate with it.
shanshan310 said:
I identify as Christian, but I'm a pretty terrible one. Last time I went to church was Christmas eve, and I remember feeling uncomfortable there, partly because I wasn't sure I feel as strongly as other people there. I still prey, and I believe in Heaven (but not hell), but really my beliefs are pretty simple. I'm not sure if I can stand up for Christianity because I'm not really sure if I qualify. I mean, I've always identified as one, and calling myself something different feels well... off. I'm certainly not agnostic. Am I Christian?
I would say Christianity is what you identify with. However, being a Christian requires faith which requires activity. In other words you may need to work at it and going to the church you're most familiar with might be best. If you hated that, then try another one. Keep in mind that there are tons of people think of themselves as Christians yet don't know much. It was impossible for me to worship without knowledge, but it works for some.

The fact that you dismiss atheism/agnosticism and view yourself as a Christian is a pretty good start to standing up for it. The challenge is to show what you know, since an atheist will never be able to tell you what you believe or why- no matter how some of them think they can.
Stridone said:
"Blind hate"? More like rational, well-founded hate.
This is a case in point. Seriously, how can anyone be bent out of shape by this? lol
 

Zaphod

Member
shanshan310 said:
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..

Sometimes the hate can come from childhood experiences. Most people don't take kindly to being told they are bad people and are going to hell just because they don't meet up at the same place on Sunday. Some people then just lash out at all religious people. I'm not justifying the hate just trying to give one explanation.

I would say that you are probably better off now as a Christian Gafer than if you were a third century Christian in Rome.
 

TaeOH

Member
shanshan310 said:
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..

I identify as Christian, but I'm a pretty terrible one. Last time I went to church was Christmas eve, and I remember feeling uncomfortable there, partly because I wasn't sure I feel as strongly as other people there. I still prey, and I believe in Heaven (but not hell), but really my beliefs are pretty simple. I'm not sure if I can stand up for Christianity because I'm not really sure if I qualify. I mean, I've always identified as one, and calling myself something different feels well... off. I'm certainly not agnostic. Am I Christian?

I admit I don't hang around here as much anymore as I don't enjoy the culture. But that also is because I am older and GAF is pretty juvenile.

I like to come back now and then to see how much Scientism is trying to crowd out those of other faith's. And have been pleasantly surprised by this thread.
 
TaeOH said:
I admit I don't hang around here as much anymore as I don't enjoy the culture. But that also is because I am older and GAF is pretty juvenile.

I like to come back now and then to see how much Scientism is trying to crowd out those of other faith's. And have been pleasantly surprised by this thread.
What exactly do you mean by "Scientism"?
 

TaeOH

Member
Yujin said:
Sure. If I commit a crime and the victim forgives me for it, that doesn't mean that I automatically avoid being sentenced.

If Satan had a change of heart, God could forgive him, but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass. If that were the case, why would he have not already done so?


I think you a bypassing the argument as I am sure the original intent was defining forgiveness with acquittal. But anyway the best answer has already been made, we already know Satan's end as it is revealed in Revelation.
 
Church time... I'm gonna and the Pastor how should I behave when I have to go to a Catholic Church... for example, later today I'm to a ceremony on a Catholic Church in memory of an uncle that died years ago...

All of my family is Catholic... only me, my mom and brother are Christians...

What are your opinions?
 
Fernando Rocker said:
Church time... I'm gonna and the Pastor how should I behave when I have to go to a Catholic Church... for example, later today I'm to a ceremony on a Catholic Church in memory of an uncle that died years ago...

All of my family is Catholic... only me, my mom and brother are Christians...

What are your opinions?
Hah. Some Catholics would scoff at such a statement.

Basically, just do what everyone else is doing. When the congregation stands, you stand. When they sit, you sit. When they kneel, you kneel. When they're saying something in Latin just mumble.
 

Zaphod

Member
Fernando Rocker said:
All of my family is Catholic... only me, my mom and brother are Christians...

What are your opinions?

Stop being so high and mighty and judgmental about the people that don't share your religion would be a nice start.
 
Zaphod said:
Stop being so high and mighty and judgmental about the people that don't share your religion would be a nice start.
What? I'm not being judgmental...

I don't have any promenade with my family... but Catholic Church is very different that sometimes O don't know how to behave... they have some very specific rituals and prayers... they pray to the Virgin Mary... anyway... I just want to know how to behave...

I don't even know how to do the sign of the Cross properly...
 

Chaplain

Member
I am in charge of my churches Sunday morning webcast and wanted to invite everyone to watch our live service right now. Today's message is titled:

“The Benefit of Godly Mother’s,” Selected Scriptures, by Pastor Xavier Ries

Click on the following link to watch the live stream:

http://azulweb.streamguys.com/calvary.mov

Service times (PST):

7:30 am, 9:30 am & 12:00 pm
 

Zaphod

Member
Fernando Rocker said:
What? I'm not being judgmental...

I don't have any promenade with my family... but Catholic Church is very different that sometimes O don't know how to behave... they have some very specific rituals and prayers... they pray to the Virgin Mary... anyway... I just want to know how to behave...

It was the statement that Catholics are not Christian that made me think that.

Just follow along and be prepared to do the sit-stand-kneel a few times. You'll also be asked to shake your neighbors' hands. Not much precipitation other than that.

Oh, also don't do communion.
 
Zaphod said:
Stop being so high and mighty and judgmental about the people that don't share your religion would be a nice start.
Such a comment as that stems from the belief that Catholics aren't true Christians because they believe that they gain salvation through sacraments and works instead of believing that the only way to be saved is by grace through faith in the work that Christ has done already.

So he not expressing that comment out of pride but out of concern.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Fernando Rocker said:
I don't have any promenade with my family... but Catholic Church is very different that sometimes O don't know how to behave... they have some very specific rituals and prayers... they pray to the Virgin Mary... anyway... I just want to know how to behave...

I don't even know how to do the sign of the Cross properly...

It's quite straightforward. In the main just follow the crowd. If you get stuck, check out with the person next to you. Like any ritual it takes a bit of getting used to, but nothing to be concerned about.

Catholics are mostly very easy-going about newcomers, there's nothing you need be embarrassed about. If you do something wrong it happens all the time and is no big deal.

Sign of the Cross goes (from your point of view) up, down, left, right - more specifically forehead, breast, left shoulder, right shoulder - but it doesn't matter at all if you get it wrong or don't do it at all.

Concentrate on the service, not on the little rituals that go with it and you'll be fine. There shouldn't be anything in the service that makes you worry or cross your fingers behind your back or anything.

Oh, and Catholics are Christians. It's a bit insulting to suggest otherwise in their company - so I'd avoid that topic if I were you.
 

TaeOH

Member
greycolumbus said:
Those words describe different ideas.

But they all can be used in describing the belief that the material world is all there is? Correct?

I could add the term philosophical in front of materialism to further define the concept if you like as I have often heard it described as "philosophical materialism".
 

TaeOH

Member
Atramental said:
Such a comment as that stems from the belief that Catholics aren't true Christians because they believe that they gain salvation through sacraments and works instead of believing that the only way to be saved is by grace through faith in the work that Christ has done already.

So he not expressing that comment out of pride but out of concern.

Christian is a fairly diluted term these days. I would not make such a claim. I prefer to identify myself as an Evangelical, because this identifies the mostly orthodox doctrine I hold too. I am actually involved with a Wesleyan church these days because it is close and bible believing, but I do not consider myself Wesleyan.

Catholics interpretation of the Bible is consistent and after Vatican 2, much closer to traditional Protestantism. I agree with you in that I do not follow their definition of Justification, but to declare them to be non-christian is going a bit far.
 

The Lamp

Member
If we're going to link messages, I STRONGLY encourage you guys to check out the college bible study podcasts from my college campus (thousands of students go). The speaker is Ben Stuart, and he's awesome.

http://breakawayministries.org/resources/podcast

Last semester was 1 Thessalonians and this semester was the gospel of Mark. They have videos of the teachings. They're great.

shanshan310 said:
Question: How do you guys cope with all the religious hate on neoGAF?
Seeing it just makes me really mad, but if I speak up there's always a heard of people that either crushes you or disregards you by saying "oh your religious you must be stupid". I know I should just ignore it but it upsets me to see so much blind hate. I know if the situation was in reverse I would probably try to find the middle ground there too..

I identify as Christian, but I'm a pretty terrible one. Last time I went to church was Christmas eve, and I remember feeling uncomfortable there, partly because I wasn't sure I feel as strongly as other people there. I still prey, and I believe in Heaven (but not hell), but really my beliefs are pretty simple. I'm not sure if I can stand up for Christianity because I'm not really sure if I qualify. I mean, I've always identified as one, and calling myself something different feels well... off. I'm certainly not agnostic. Am I Christian?


You need to be careful. Going to church or praying does not make you a Christian, just as much as being in a garage doesn't make you a car. Even the demons believe Jesus is the Son of God.

What makes you saved is that you have committed to following Christ, as rocky and difficult, but joyous and rewarding of a road that is; that you've acknowledged you were bought at a price (1 Corinthians) by God and now you've cast off the flesh of sin to be a new creation in Christ. (This however, doesn't mean you won't sin after being a Christian...it just means that you know it's wrong and you honor God by trying to focus on Him).

This link should really help you, I think:
http://www.mindsync.com/lam/saved.htm

And if you believe in Heaven but not Hell, that means you are ignoring parts of the Bible that talk about God's judgment, which means you don't believe it's true.

The problem with that is...

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (1 Timothy 3:16-17)

Christians believe that.


phisheep said:
It's quite straightforward. In the main just follow the crowd. If you get stuck, check out with the person next to you. Like any ritual it takes a bit of getting used to, but nothing to be concerned about.

Catholics are mostly very easy-going about newcomers, there's nothing you need be embarrassed about. If you do something wrong it happens all the time and is no big deal.

Sign of the Cross goes (from your point of view) up, down, left, right - more specifically forehead, breast, left shoulder, right shoulder - but it doesn't matter at all if you get it wrong or don't do it at all.

Concentrate on the service, not on the little rituals that go with it and you'll be fine. There shouldn't be anything in the service that makes you worry or cross your fingers behind your back or anything.

Oh, and Catholics are Christians. It's a bit insulting to suggest otherwise in their company - so I'd avoid that topic if I were you.

I don't think being Catholic makes or doesn't make you Christian. As long as you do what the Bible says you gotta do to be a Christian, you're a Christian, regardless of whatever tag you want to stick with it. I don't know why when I ask some people if they're Christian they say "I'm Catholic". Like....um...why is the clarification necessary? Lol. They always answer that question with "Catholic", it seems. Haha.

How do people feel about praying to the Virgin Mary?

I don't agree with it. The Bible is very specific about talking to dead spirits or worshiping false idols. Mary was just a human that God chose for a great purpose, but she's no different from you and me, and the Bible says that Christians don't need to go through anyone else or ask anyone else to intercede on our behalf to approach or talk to God. Jesus tore the veil of the temple in two with his death, signifying our open approach to the Father. And in some Catholic cathedrals that I've visited, it's just plain idolatry, with huge virgin statues (larger than any Jesus statue) with people kissing her feet and people carrying around little Mary statues on them in public.

OttomanScribe said:
Would you accept Muslim stories of faith healing?

To be honest, I've never even heard of, and therefore never considered, such things.

But I wouldn't put God in a box over something like that. God can heal who He wants to heal, I suppose, whether supernaturally or otherwise.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
The Lamp said:
I don't think being Catholic makes or doesn't make you Christian. As long as you do what the Bible says you gotta do to be a Christian, you're a Christian, regardless of whatever tag you want to stick with it. I don't know why when I ask some people if they're Christian they say "I'm Catholic". Like....um...why is the clarification necessary? Lol. They always answer that question with "Catholic", it seems. Haha.

It's quite understandable that Catholics will answer "I'm Catholic" in response to the "are you Christian" question. It's a defensive response because so many churches don't recognise Catholics as being truly Christian in some way. It helps avoid misunderstanding, particularly where the dominant religion is of a Protestant/evangelical nature.

There's been an unfortunate tendency going back centuries to classify Catholics as not being true Christians, or worse. You don't get this misunderstanding, or at least nowhere near so much, in predominantly Catholic (or even in Lutheran) countries.

Most Catholics take a relatively undogmatic definition of what "Christian" means - roughly corresponding to something like the Apostles' or the Nicene creeds, which cover a pretty broad range of beliefs. On the other hand protestant evangelicals tend to interpret Christianity more narrowly on Biblical grounds. Nearly all the various sects recognise that you don't have to be a perfect, or even a good Christian to be a Christian at all (there's the odd exception).

Fir the sake of mutual recognition and understanding I tend to take a very broad view and count as Christian anyone who believes that Jesus (a) existed and (b) has some sort of unique and intimate relationship with a single omnipotent God. The details of the relationship supposed between Jesus and God vary rather a lot between sects, but generally not so much as to prevent sane and productive conversation between Christians (taken broadly) of all faiths. The difficulty with taking too narrow a definition of Christianity is that such conversations tend to get chopped off at an early stage and we all carry on not understanding each other enough.
 
JGS said:
Any number of things but it's mainly for entertainment purposes. Gospel music is very inspirational to me. There's something about putting your all into a song for praise that impresses me even if I don't necessary think God is moving them to sing like that.

I don't go out of my way to engage in interfaith worship. I think secular interaction is good enough but I do research religious beliefs that interest me. On occasion I have to go to a church or something to pay respects to someone I know that died or go to a wedding.
So not much at all? Oh, do you consider other churches not to be the same religion :S I don't get what the second sentence implies.
To be honest, I've never even heard of, and therefore never considered, such things.

But I wouldn't put God in a box over something like that. God can heal who He wants to heal, I suppose, whether supernaturally or otherwise.
So faith in Christ isn't needed for faith healing?
 

JGS

Banned
OttomanScribe said:
So not much at all? Oh, do you consider other churches not to be the same religion :S I don't get what the second sentence implies.
Other churches are not the same religion. All of them may consider themselves Christian, but varying degrees of belief make it impossible to consider them all the same.

The second sentence explains my lack of inspiration from other sources. I don't go out of my way to involve myself in religions that are not mine. Most people we meet though are not the exact same religion I am and I've made good friends across faiths.

That's as far as I want to take it and am not interested in becoming their faith, recognize it as equal ( That sounds insulting, but I view the devoutness in one faith to be an admission of the inferiority of the others. I don't think that anyone who believes their faith actually thinks all religions are equal.), or even to be inspired by it.

I do respect all religions and from secualr view are most certainly equal. In other words, I have no interest in silencing religions or atheists for that matter.
OttomanScribe said:
So faith in Christ isn't needed for faith healing?
I know this wasn't responding to me but the answer is no.

Healings are not an ability exclusively ascribed to God. So you could go to a faith healer that had nothing to do with Christianity. This is another aspect of faith healing being possibly fraudulent.
 

Chaplain

Member
A great commentary on Psalm 53 that will hopefully help believers in this thread that have been attacking each other.

Psalm 53:1–3
Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good! God looks down from heaven on the entire human race; he looks to see if anyone is truly wise, if anyone seeks God. But no, all have turned away; all have become corrupt. No one does good, not a single one!


In this psalm, David is speaking of universal corruption. Paul will quote this psalm in his own letter to the Romans…

In Romans 3, talking to the Jews, those who had the promises of God, he says…

"Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous—not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.” Romans 3:9–12

The divine diagnosis of the Great Physician concerning all of human nature and endeavor is that no one does good because all have sinned.

The story is told of Abraham Lincoln who said, “Tell me, if we say that the tail of a dog is a leg, how many legs does a dog have?”
The answer would come back, “Five.”
And he would smile and say, “No. Four because calling the tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”

Calling man good doesn’t make him good. Regardless of what the philosopher says, David declares and Paul reiterates that there is none righteous.

This not only shows the need for salvation, but it’s also a key for compassion. That is, when my brothers and sisters stumble a bit, I don’t have to be shocked or offended, for the Bible says none of us do good. Instead of judging and condemning, I’m free to love people and enjoy them, to be tolerant of them and patient with them.

In verses 4 through 6, David writes not of universal corruption, but of a particular situation…

Psalm 53:4–6
"Will those who do evil never learn? They eat up my people like bread and wouldn’t think of praying to God. Terror will grip them, terror like they have never known before. God will scatter the bones of your enemies. You will put them to shame, for God has rejected them. Who will come from Mount Zion to rescue Israel? When God restores his people, Jacob will shout with joy, and Israel will rejoice."

The situation is that the enemies of Israel were encamped against Israel, feeling as though they had the right to annihilate, harass, and destroy the people of God due to their shortcomings. These enemies made a mistake Jude 11 refers to as the “error of Balaam.” Balaam was a prophet who realized that the host of Israel was sinning. So when Balak, one of Israel’s enemies, asked if he would come and curse the nation, Balaam agreed. The problem was, every time Balaam opened his mouth to curse, blessing poured forth instead. The error of Balaam was this: Balaam mistakenly assumed God would be eager to curse His sinful, defiled people (Numbers 22–24).

There are Christians who denounce God’s people because they see flaws and weaknesses in the church. Theirs is the error of Balaam. Balaam didn’t factor in grace or mercy, love or patience into the equation.

In the first three verses of this psalm, David readily admits that none is good. Nonetheless, the enemies of God’s people have no right to devour His people, for salvation will one day come. Jesus will come back and things will be right. How I’m looking forward to that.
 

Chaplain

Member
Slo said:
Those two verses are a great example of why some non-Christians resent Christians so much.

I think this hate can come from the fact that God's Word exposes humanities innermost thoughts and desires. People do not like to be told that they are evil and are under God's Wrath.
 

Orayn

Member
Game Analyst said:
I think this hate can come from the fact that God's Word exposes humanities innermost thoughts and desires. People do not like to be told that they are evil and are under God's Wrath.
This is one of the major points where I part ways with Christianity, and a number of other religions for that matter. Speaking in terms of humanist, utilitarian ethics, most people aren't evil, and some things considered sinful are either mild transgressions or morally neutral in my eyes.
 

Chaplain

Member
Orayn said:
This is one of the major points where I part ways with Christianity, and a number of other religions for that matter. Speaking in terms of humanist, utilitarian ethics, most people aren't evil, and some things considered sinful are either mild transgressions or morally neutral in my eyes.

From the humanist perspective, you are right. Most people are not evil.

From God's perspective, God sees everything a person thinks and does. He says everyone is evil because compared to Jesus they are. God's definition of good is sinless.
 

Slo

Member
Game Analyst said:
I think this hate can come from the fact that God's Word exposes humanities innermost thoughts and desires. People do not like to be told that they are evil and are under God's Wrath.

And here's why I resent Christians. "I have a book that encourages and enables me to criticize and scrutinize others, but my book should not be criticized or scrutinized or I'll have my feelings hurt. "
 

snacknuts

we all knew her
Game Analyst said:
From the humanist perspective, you are right. Most people are not evil.

From God's perspective, God sees everything a person thinks and does. He says everyone is evil because compared to Jesus they are. God's definition of good is sinless.

With that being the case, I think most non-Christians don't get too bent out of shape about a book telling them they're evil (I know I couldn't care less). The anger and resentment arises when Christians, who are themselves evil in God's eyes, tell non-Christians that they are evil. Pot and kettle and what have you.
 

JGS

Banned
zesty said:
With that being the case, I think most non-Christians don't get too bent out of shape about a book telling them they're evil (I know I couldn't care less). The anger and resentment arises when Christians, who are themselves evil in God's eyes, tell non-Christians that they are evil. Pot and kettle and what have you.
This doesn't happen too often though. In fact, it's used as an excuse to condemn all of Christianity when the reality is most of Christianity cares nothing about the non-religious considering their slight numbers.

In particular, the ire that non-religious have against the religious is totally irrelevant except for the few of us that actually engage with them.

The blatant exception to this is when they preach to others which is indeed a requirement for some but an extremely slight annoyance in one's life overall. If it's a big annoyance then deal with it just like other parts of life beyond our control. Yell at them as that'll teach them.
 

Pre

Member
zesty said:
With that being the case, I think most non-Christians don't get too bent out of shape about a book telling them they're evil (I know I couldn't care less). The anger and resentment arises when Christians, who are themselves evil in God's eyes, tell non-Christians that they are evil. Pot and kettle and what have you.

We're all evil. The basis of Christianity is that we're all inherently sinful - but through Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, we escape the condemnation of the law. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but that sin has been paid for. I'm no better than anyone else - I'm simply forgiven.
 

Chaplain

Member
zesty said:
The anger and resentment arises when Christians, who are themselves evil in God's eyes, tell non-Christians that they are evil. Pot and kettle and what have you.

Jesus said that his disciples were to go out into the world and tell people about the condition of man and what God did for them.

That being said, the reason Christians tell others that they are sinners and need God's forgiveness is because this is the best gift anyone can receive in life. Christians would not be loving if they did not tell others the truth they have found in Christ. I want everyone to experience what God offers through His Son: Forgiveness and Mercy from past, present and future sins.

Christians are viewed by God as adopted sons or daughters (John 1:12-13). They still have a sinful nature but now they have God's Spirit living in them. So they have two natures (one evil and one good). Christians have a daily struggle between both natures but we are offered victory over the evil by abiding in Christ (doing what he says).

Did what I said make sense?
 

Dunk#7

Member
Slo said:
And here's why I resent Christians. "I have a book that encourages and enables me to criticize and scrutinize others, but my book should not be criticized or scrutinized or I'll have my feelings hurt. "

The Bible actually does not encourage what you mentioned.

Just because you have select groups of people disobeying what the Bible says is not a reason to resent those who follow the Bible in general.

There are definitely people out there who put a bad name on Christianity, but that should not deter people from what the Bible actually says.

Don't judge the Bible based on actions of Christians around you. Everybody on this planet is sinful.
 

The Lamp

Member
Slo said:
And here's why I resent Christians. "I have a book that encourages and enables me to criticize and scrutinize others, but my book should not be criticized or scrutinized or I'll have my feelings hurt. "

Christians don't care (or at least shouldn't) if you persecute "their book", it's not "their problem". The book tells them and has warned them for millenia that people would persecute them and "their book". God has simply called them to deliver the message of the book, because it is His divine message to the inhabitants of earth, with His divine standards for righteousness and eternal life. If one has a problem with it, they can take that up with God, as far as a Christian's concerned. They're the messenger, not the legislature.

Though yeah, the Bible doesn't tell Christians to scrutinize or criticize other unbelievers, that's not their place, that's God's place. A Christian's job is just to joyfully give the Good News (gospel) and love others.

phisheep said:
Most Catholics take a relatively undogmatic definition of what "Christian" means - roughly corresponding to something like the Apostles' or the Nicene creeds, which cover a pretty broad range of beliefs. On the other hand protestant evangelicals tend to interpret Christianity more narrowly on Biblical grounds. Nearly all the various sects recognise that you don't have to be a perfect, or even a good Christian to be a Christian at all (there's the odd exception).

Fir the sake of mutual recognition and understanding I tend to take a very broad view and count as Christian anyone who believes that Jesus (a) existed and (b) has some sort of unique and intimate relationship with a single omnipotent God. The details of the relationship supposed between Jesus and God vary rather a lot between sects, but generally not so much as to prevent sane and productive conversation between Christians (taken broadly) of all faiths. The difficulty with taking too narrow a definition of Christianity is that such conversations tend to get chopped off at an early stage and we all carry on not understanding each other enough.

The Word of God is meant to be narrow.

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Well, like I said, if you follow Christ and repent of your sin, then you are a Christian (a.k.a. "of-Christ") regardless of what fancy denomination title you want to sparkle yourself with.
 

Chaplain

Member
zesty said:
As it pertains to your faith, I understand what you're saying, yes.

Thanks Zesty.

Let me ask you a question. If you went to a doctor and the doctor found that you had stage 4 cancer, but did not tell you this because he did not want to upset you, would this be ok to you?
 

snacknuts

we all knew her
Game Analyst said:
Thanks Zesty.

Let me ask you a question. If you went to a doctor and the doctor found that you had stage 4 cancer, but did not tell you this because he did not want to upset you, would this be ok to you?

I know where you're going with this, and I understand that it seems like an apt analogy from your viewpoint. As the patient in this case, a more analogous diagnosis would be terminal cooties.
 

cwmartin

Member
zesty said:
I know where you're going with this, and I understand that it seems like an apt analogy from your viewpoint. As the patient in this case, a more analogous diagnosis would be terminal cooties.

perfect response.
 

The Lamp

Member
zesty said:
I know where you're going with this, and I understand that it seems like an apt analogy from your viewpoint. As the patient in this case, a more analogous diagnosis would be terminal cooties.

Why cooties?
 
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