Christianity |OT| The official thread of hope, faith and infinite love.
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Herpes Reasons
Banned
i myself got the impression that he was talking about all faith healers.DanteFox said:
his speech in the beginning didn't imply certain but the general practice of laying of the hands. With that said, i agree with his venture, fake healers should be exposed on a broader media.
edit: just watched it some more. starting from 38:30, he clearly states
"to watch at first hand a genuine healing service"
but he easily dismissed the practice afterwards.
Pristine_Condition said:
That was pretty amazing, and I'm typically not a fan of country music.
Game Analyst said:
That's a really good idea! I attend the Rock church in San Diego, and our Pastor Miles McPherson going to be tackling the issue of Jesus for his next series starting this upcoming Sunday. The services can be watched live, or downloaded at a later time. If you get the opportunity, or if you have some friends who are struggling with the question of who Jesus is, check out the site they've created for this series: http://jesusdilemma.com/
Sutton Dagger
Member
viakado said:
And?
Has there ever been a verified case of faith healing?
Chaplain
Member
Yes, but that doesn't mean it was caused by God.Sutton Dagger said:
I remember something in NT indicating that basically once Scrioture is complete, miracles would no longer be necessary, so modern day healers may conflict with this. In all honesty, I'm not sure and it doesn't concern me since I'll assume I'm stuck with whatever malady I've got unless there's a medical cure for it.
That doesn't mean that healers (& in particular the healed who often are the ones that can verify) are all phony though, just that they get their abilities from another source.
OttomanScribe
Member
Are Christians allowed to recieve inspiration from the works of other religious groups? In terms of things like poetry, moral stories or whatever?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Sure. Ill tell my own accounts.Sutton Dagger said:
First is myself. I had injured my knee from basketball over the years. My doctor says I need surgery around my knee caps. I've had pain in my knee for almost a decade. So a friend of mine takes me to a church in pasadena, ca. I receive prayer from one of the women there. She puts her hands on my knees and starts praying. I felt moderate heat coming from within my knee. The prayer stops and the heat sensations stop. The pain is still there. She said many times it takes many prayers and sometimes God does not heal at all. So I go home. Go to bed. And the next morning, the pain is gone. Its been 4 months now pain free. That church never pressured me to pay up or return. I go back to my doctor and does another xray and he's dumbfounded on how my knee miraculously healed on its own.
Or how how about a man that goes to my church for years stricken with parkinsons disease? He's pretty much a vegetables now and in a wheel chair. He battled with it for years and years and after much prayers and laying of the hands, the disease got worse and worse because its degenerative.
Well, last month my pastor decided to pray for him again during service. He put his hands on his shoulder. He didn't shout. He didn't make any loud gestures. And finally it happened. The man in the wheelchair stopped shaking. He slowly got up and started walking. And after a few minutes he was so happy he started running everywhere. I would like to add his mind is still damaged. He has trouble speaking. But he walks now. No more shaking. Its been about a couple months since.
I have other miraculous stories to tell from my own account. If you would like to know id be gladly to share them.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
This position is called cessationism. Its the idea that spiritual gifts of the holy spirit including healings pretty much died off in the First century church.JGS said:
There's no verse in the bible that says anything to indicate that. Its a false assumption that has been accepted by the evangelicals
Your Excellency
Banned
viakado said:
Holy shit, seriously? Guys, guys, guys, burn all your science books, we've just received word this very second that the laws of physics, biology and chemistry have been broken. Replace them with books on faith healing, praying, and charlatanism.
Oh yeah, we need to close all the hospitals and research centres too: it's quite clear that the laws of magic are far more powerful and costly than such studies, and we need to invest instead in the Harvard School of Prayer Healing.
OttomanScribe
Member
I think people should avoid asking for personal accounts of things like faith healing. It gives the impression that an anecdotal account, rather than an actual clinical trial, is legitimate proof.
If you think you know a faith healer who is legit, might I suggest you refer them to the James Randi Educational Fund's 1 million dollar challenge? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
Basically if you can prove such a power, they give you a million dollars. If it is legit, there is no fear right? If you think a person might not want the money, then it is just sitting in the bank, it could be doing something for charity! If you think you know someone who can perform such an amazing feat, then you are morally obliged to get the million dollars, to give to charity, or to yourself. Either one.
If you think you know a faith healer who is legit, might I suggest you refer them to the James Randi Educational Fund's 1 million dollar challenge? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
Basically if you can prove such a power, they give you a million dollars. If it is legit, there is no fear right? If you think a person might not want the money, then it is just sitting in the bank, it could be doing something for charity! If you think you know someone who can perform such an amazing feat, then you are morally obliged to get the million dollars, to give to charity, or to yourself. Either one.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
You might want to read the new rules on Gaf. The mods have been quite strict on these kind of pointless postings.Your Excellency said:
But like I said before, believing some random poster on the internet takes a lot more faith than believing in the bible.
OttomanScribe
Member
A person whose youth passes over them, and they don't learn, recite four takbirs over them, because they are dead! - Imam Shafi'i 
Atramental
Banned
What I learned at my private Christian school was that as long as those works do not conflict with what scripture says then it is okay to accept. For example, one of my elementary school teachers read us stories from Aesop's Fables and showed us how some of the stories relate to some of Jesus's parables.OttomanScribe said:
Dude Abides
Banned
Sutton Dagger said:
No. The claim that "a wizard did it" by its very nature cannot be verified. There are, however, verified accounts of horrible parents letting their kid die because they put their trust in superstitious nonsense.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23882698/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/
I'm not an evangical and it's not that important to me. I'm just saying faith healers should be taken with a grain of salt simply because of the rampant fraud in their practice.viakado said:
There's a pretty logical reason why there's no verification in the Bible of it ending. It wasn't complete so there was no reason to do away with them at that time along with other works. I found the verses at 1 Corinthians 13.
Thessalonians also mentions that these works may be performed by Satan, so again, it bears watching. After all, if a faith healer is doing nothing of import outside of his healing, then what exactly makes them so special?
On the flip side, if a faith healer is able to do that, then why the heck is no one flat out joining that denomination which I would assume to be their goal?
These all match up with the warning Jesus gave at Matthew 7 to watch out for ones claiming to do works in his name but not really doing so.
This is just opinion. I haven't dine any research in it as, generally speaking, I dont believe it. At the same time, I don't see the danger in believing in it unless it leads ones down the wring path. I'm not willing to take that chance myself.
This is also different from ones praying to God to help heal someone.
Sutton Dagger
Member
viakado said:
I'm sure most would agree with me in regards to anecdotal 'evidence' being inadequate in relation to verification.
Actually Ottomanscribe has the best advice, if you think it's a legitimate case of supernatural healing, take it to the James Randi foundation to claim your 1million dollar reward.
OttomanScribe
Member
The example I was thinking of was the poetry of Rumi or ibn Arabi. When I say inspiration I am talking about inspiration for faith.JGS said:
I find great solace and inspiration in such things, especially the poetry of the Sufis. I remember a Christian friend giving me Paulo Coelho's 'The Prophet' and being quite confused, I knew the story, it is a Muslim story from the Masnavi. When I told him he was weirded out, he didn't know that Coelho openly admits to taking Muslim traditions and transmitting them to a Western audience (and even an uneducated Muslim one) and good on him lol.
God hath slaves of insight: they
The world divorced have, lest she tempt them.
They thought on her, and when they knew her,
To be no homeland for the living,
They took her as a sea, embarking
On best of deeds as boats to cross her.
'Abd al-'Aziz at-Tunisi (Translation: Martin Lings)
I like this thread.
It's pretty hard being a Christian on GAF, to the point where I'll take long breaks or stick just the gaming side because a lot of the threads here simply devolve in the bashing of religion. It's good to have a place here where I can read and talk about my faith without having to worry about constantly being belittled by the rest of the board.
To briefly touch on where I'm at right now, I've been struggling with staying on the righteous path so to speak. A close friend of mine revealed to me tonight that she's recently gotten serious about her faith, and it's got me thinking about my relationship with Christ and how I need to make a change.
I'll use this thread as a resource for helping get my life focused around the Creator.
I don't mind atheists/agnostics/followers of other faiths using this thread to ask serious questions, but let's keep stuff like this out of here, shall we?
It's pretty hard being a Christian on GAF, to the point where I'll take long breaks or stick just the gaming side because a lot of the threads here simply devolve in the bashing of religion. It's good to have a place here where I can read and talk about my faith without having to worry about constantly being belittled by the rest of the board.
To briefly touch on where I'm at right now, I've been struggling with staying on the righteous path so to speak. A close friend of mine revealed to me tonight that she's recently gotten serious about her faith, and it's got me thinking about my relationship with Christ and how I need to make a change.
I'll use this thread as a resource for helping get my life focused around the Creator.
Your Excellency said:
I don't mind atheists/agnostics/followers of other faiths using this thread to ask serious questions, but let's keep stuff like this out of here, shall we?
Fernando Rocker
Banned
Church time... see ya guys later!
If you guys get a chance, be sure to check out http://sdrock.com/jesusdilemma/. 4 more live streams today at 10am, 12pm, 5pm and 7pm pst.
I just wanted to pop back in and say thank you to those that pointed out Lecrae to me several pages back.
Generally I do not expect much when I try to find Christian rap and hip-hop.
They are usually not very talented and use very simplistic rhyme schemes.
Lecrae has changed my perception of this. He is so genuine in what he is saying and he is also talented.
I can't believe I had never heard of him. It's great to finally have music that I enjoy not only the style but also the message.
Anybody interested should definitely check this guy out. Several of his songs have already convicted me of things I need to work on in life.
Generally I do not expect much when I try to find Christian rap and hip-hop.
They are usually not very talented and use very simplistic rhyme schemes.
Lecrae has changed my perception of this. He is so genuine in what he is saying and he is also talented.
I can't believe I had never heard of him. It's great to finally have music that I enjoy not only the style but also the message.
Anybody interested should definitely check this guy out. Several of his songs have already convicted me of things I need to work on in life.
Chaplain
Member
There seems to be a divide between those happy and those upset about Bin Laden's death. As Christians, is it right of wrong to feel good about his death?
‎1) I've seen several Scriptures brought up to say it's wrong to be happy about the death of the wicked. To that I ask: If a murderer or rapist of your family member was executed, would you feel happy or not? Would that happiness stem from seeing justice done, or of the perpetrator himself dying?
‎2) Fast-forward to the judgment of Satan. His sins will all be accounted for, and he will be condemned to eternal wrath in the Lake of Fire. How will you feel in that time? Sadness for such a fate? Sadness for his immense fall? Happiness for his day of reckoning? Happiness for closure?
3) Do you think that the Scriptures often being referenced are a little one-sided? There are Scriptures elsewhere that have a more-or-less just happiness about the judgment of the wicked. How do you balance them?
4) A lot of Scriptures brought up may also seem to come from an individual command perspective. Like pray for your enemy. Collective commands, however, can be different at times. Do you allow evil to be done to another or do you step in and defend them? For instance, you do not have the right to avenge yourself; but the government has the responsibility to do it for you (as God's agent). In the same way, doesn't the gov't have a responsibility to avenge the attackers of 9/11? How should we feel? Should we be happy about a man's death, or should we be happy about justice prevailing?
‎5) "They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." 1 Thes. 2:15-16
How do you feel about the rejoicing of Paul on the judgment of the antagonizing Jews?
‎6) Do you think it's possible that we take one Scripture and craft a full doctrine around it at the expense or ignorance of other Scriptures? Are we just looking for easy answers when in reality we need to wrestle with these matters intensely?
‎1) I've seen several Scriptures brought up to say it's wrong to be happy about the death of the wicked. To that I ask: If a murderer or rapist of your family member was executed, would you feel happy or not? Would that happiness stem from seeing justice done, or of the perpetrator himself dying?
‎2) Fast-forward to the judgment of Satan. His sins will all be accounted for, and he will be condemned to eternal wrath in the Lake of Fire. How will you feel in that time? Sadness for such a fate? Sadness for his immense fall? Happiness for his day of reckoning? Happiness for closure?
3) Do you think that the Scriptures often being referenced are a little one-sided? There are Scriptures elsewhere that have a more-or-less just happiness about the judgment of the wicked. How do you balance them?
4) A lot of Scriptures brought up may also seem to come from an individual command perspective. Like pray for your enemy. Collective commands, however, can be different at times. Do you allow evil to be done to another or do you step in and defend them? For instance, you do not have the right to avenge yourself; but the government has the responsibility to do it for you (as God's agent). In the same way, doesn't the gov't have a responsibility to avenge the attackers of 9/11? How should we feel? Should we be happy about a man's death, or should we be happy about justice prevailing?
‎5) "They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." 1 Thes. 2:15-16
How do you feel about the rejoicing of Paul on the judgment of the antagonizing Jews?
‎6) Do you think it's possible that we take one Scripture and craft a full doctrine around it at the expense or ignorance of other Scriptures? Are we just looking for easy answers when in reality we need to wrestle with these matters intensely?
My personal opinion is it's inappropriate to cheer aother person's death even if we want it.
Osama was an enemy of the US so it makes sense that they would want him dead and would cheer it once it happened considering it took 10 years to do. Secularly and militarily, it makes sense to be glad that the leader of a terrorist organization died.
I don't think that should translate to universal praise of a miltary action that had little to nothing to do with God.
Cheering is not the opposite of siding with Osama so although I am perfectly content with his death just like I was with the thousand of others who died before him, I fail to see the need to go "Woohoo!" either. I personally stay pretty neutral to that especially when I reflect on the sheer amount of wasted effort and lives lost in both wars.
Osama was an enemy of the US so it makes sense that they would want him dead and would cheer it once it happened considering it took 10 years to do. Secularly and militarily, it makes sense to be glad that the leader of a terrorist organization died.
I don't think that should translate to universal praise of a miltary action that had little to nothing to do with God.
Cheering is not the opposite of siding with Osama so although I am perfectly content with his death just like I was with the thousand of others who died before him, I fail to see the need to go "Woohoo!" either. I personally stay pretty neutral to that especially when I reflect on the sheer amount of wasted effort and lives lost in both wars.
I didn't mean to ignore this for so long after your clarification.OttomanScribe said:
My initial response would no, but that didn't sound quite right. I also didn't want to say that it may inspire but only because it reinforce my Christianity.
I think I would say yes, but for me it's largely in one particular area - music.
OttomanScribe
Member
JGS said:
I wouldn't expect it to undermine your Christianity lol, that would be silly.
I have in the past gained inspiration from Christian poetry and psalms for example (as long as they aren't committing shirk) along with some of the writings of early theologians. I find great love for some of the great Jewish thinkers too, at least as my Rabbi friend conveyed the stories to me.
That is more what I am asking.
I know. I was trying to be polite. Oftentimes, when I see other religious stuff, it doesn't really inspire me in a particular way, but rather reinforces why I chose Christianity. That's not to say that I don't enjoy other stuff, just that it usually doesn't link up with my faith.OttomanScribe said:
Music is the primary exception to this. I can listen to just about any religious thought and it not bother me except Satanic which always bothers. Further if it's about a different belief but sung with conviction, it does indeed inspire me regarding spirituality.
viakado said:
I am Evangelical and I do not accept this. BUT...
Of course there is a but.
I distrust most of what I see in some of the more charismatic gifts such as Tongues and Faith Healing. I do not know anyone personally who has these gifts, but I do have friends that I trust who claim to know people with these gifts. These are biblical gifts, I trust these friends, so I take it on faith in them that these gifts still exist. I doubt I will ever experience them though, well, manly because I do doubt I suppose.
bonesmccoy
Banned
TaeOH said:
I think, speaking as a Catholic Christian, you most certainly should not celebrate this man's death. It's utterly incompatible with Imago Dei to look at the death of another person and rejoice.
The inclination to take the death of another human being, and turn it into a cause for joy, I think, is just as perverted as those who cheered when the towers fell.
Sutton Dagger said:
I've experienced it in my personal life and seen others.
My mother survived a coma from a chemical poisoning exposure that no one else in medical history had ever survived. They said she would be completely mentally retarded or paralyzed for the rest of her life if she ever even woke up from the coma, and that she would never recover. No doctor would have told you she would be alive today. Well she woke up, and recovered, as she was prayed over. Besides some side effects from nerve inflammation from dystonia, she's completely normal from anyone else walking around and you wouldn't be able to tell. She gave birth to me.
Beyond that, my personal friend told me someone from his church was born crippled and unable to walk, bound to a wheelchair his whole life. Someone at the church felt led by the Spirit to pray over him and lay hands on him. He prayed for his healing, and the boy got up and started walking.
People who aren't Christians don't really talk about it because they believe it's impossible.
You don't have to believe me, though. I don't really care. I just know what I've seen.
Anyway, on the subject of Bin Laden, I didn't rejoice. I don't feel comfortable with celebrating elatedly over the death of man who was led by a lie and led others into deception. Christians should be sorrowful that the man never got to know Christ, and instead caused so much hurt to the world.
On the other hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with being relieved that he can no longer hurt us and that justice has been dealt.
jdogmoney said:
Kind of a useless "what if" because Revelation already tells the ultimate fate of Satan and sin, and that he doesn't have a change of heart.
But no, I don't believe so, because Christ's sacrifice/God's forgiveness is extended to humans, not angels. Angels have either pledged allegiance to God or to Lucifer, and God already determined judgment for those beings that rebelled against Him.
As the story goes, the angels have not changed their minds since Lucifer took 1/3rd of them with him.
OttomanScribe
Member
What other religious stuff do you engage with?JGS said:
The Lamp said:
Would you accept Muslim stories of faith healing?
What do you guys think about this... situation?
The End is Nigh? We'll Know Soon Enough
Basically, it's about a group of Christians who think a bunch of stuff in the bible very clearly shows that Judgment Day is May 21 of this year. Many of them have apparently quit their jobs to spread the word, planning on not needing money or anything else as of 5/22. Do you find this stuff inspirational? Bonkers? Something else?
The End is Nigh? We'll Know Soon Enough
Basically, it's about a group of Christians who think a bunch of stuff in the bible very clearly shows that Judgment Day is May 21 of this year. Many of them have apparently quit their jobs to spread the word, planning on not needing money or anything else as of 5/22. Do you find this stuff inspirational? Bonkers? Something else?
zesty said:
I see a few of their billboards as I drive to church on Sundays. It's complete rubbish. This organization predicted the same thing would occur in the mid 90's. More importantly, Jesus is explicitly clear that no one but God the Father knows the day and hour of Jesus' return.
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father... Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come."
-Matthew 24:36,42
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. Its like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch. Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come backwhether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. "
-Mark 13:32-35
Chaplain
Member
This weeks weekly Bible studies are now online. Click on any of the links to watch a video:
Pastor Jon Courson - Revelation 13 (05-04-11)
Pastor Evan Wickham - Acts 2:42-47 - "The Biblical Model of a Church" (05-04-11)
Pastor Greg Laurie - Acts 2 - "The Church's First Prayer Meeting" (05/05/2011)
Pastor Chet Lowe - John 16:33 - "The Word Overcomes" (05-04-11)
Pastor Bob Coy - Joel 1:15 - "What's A Warning Worth?" (05-01-11)
Pastor Brian Brodersen - Romans 6:14-23 - "Slaves to Righteousness" (05-04-11)
Pastor Skip Heitzig - Exodus 20:8-26 (05-04-11)
He committed the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against God so there would be no reason to forgive him. Very few are guilty of this (Although I believe that many of the guilty ones are religious leaders) and the word is used too much, but none of them deserve foregiveness and I actually can't think of any that were seeking it.jdogmoney said:
There's also no particular reason why Satan would have a change of heart considering how much "success" he's had. He knows he's doomed so might as well take as many as you can and enjoy the ride.
Any number of things but it's mainly for entertainment purposes. Gospel music is very inspirational to me. There's something about putting your all into a song for praise that impresses me even if I don't necessary think God is moving them to sing like that.OttomanScribe said:
I don't go out of my way to engage in interfaith worship. I think secular interaction is good enough but I do research religious beliefs that interest me. On occasion I have to go to a church or something to pay respects to someone I know that died or go to a wedding.
Chaplain
Member
JGS said:
I agree.
I think Satan enjoys knowing that he has humanity enslaved. Almost identical to how the movie the Matrix portrayed humans in those pods. Satan wants to take what God loves most, humans, away from him and influence them to not believe in God by controlling all forms of education, entertainment and media. Satan starts off by lying to children from when they can first comprehend. Examples like with Santa and the Easter Bunny. Those lies might seem trivial to an adult but to a child it hurts them. This begins the process of not being able to trust people who are there to tell you the truth and protect you from those who lie.
Here are some scriptures that show where I am coming from:
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who dont believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They dont understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
the devilthe commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those peoples hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devils trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.
So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.
And I will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among Gods people, who are set apart by faith in me.
Fernando Rocker
Banned
I love this thread.
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