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[Dude Abides]

He's a whistleblower of the Illuminati. Assuming it is the same John Todd I wouldn't doubt he would be in prison, killed, or missing as reports I have come across.

His testimony is legit to me because it corrobates what Bill Schnoebelen has said, another former Illuminati member who Jesus delivered. It also corrobates with the documentary "They Sold Their Soul for Rock N Roll", a 4 hour documentary that goes through musician after musician who have openly admitted being involved with the occult and channeling spirits for their songs.

John Todd's testimony speaks the truth about Jesus Christ so I have no doubt he was telling the truth.

Ok. If you take things like the Illuminati and demonic influence over rock music seriously, we probably don't share enough fundamental premises about how the world works and what is fact and what is fiction for this conversation to be productive for either of us.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Ok. If you take things like the Illuminati and demonic influence over rock music seriously, we probably don't share enough fundamental premises about how the world works and what is fact and what is fiction for this conversation to be productive for either of us.

I think he is a troll....

refer to the 'not supporting Israel causes natural disasters' post.

 

[hellclerk]

He's a whistleblower of the Illuminati. Assuming it is the same John Todd I wouldn't doubt he would be in prison, killed, or missing as reports I have come across.

His testimony is legit to me because it corrobates what Bill Schnoebelen has said, another former Illuminati member who Jesus delivered. It also corrobates with the documentary "They Sold Their Soul for Rock N Roll", a 4 hour documentary that goes through musician after musician who have openly admitted being involved with the occult and channeling spirits for their songs.

John Todd's testimony speaks the truth about Jesus Christ so I have no doubt he was telling the truth.

Okay, first off, the only REAL music of the devil is the Blues, (and I play and sing them regularly). Rock, while derivative, has nothing on the Blues. Second off, you put faith into that tripe you may as well believe every word in The Da Vinci Code verbatim. The thing is, the Illuminati as an organization is historically a fraternity of intellectuals with shaky connections to large political events in the late 18th century. Not a secret society of satanists, not an organization bent on the destruction of the Church, protestant or Catholic, and definitely not something to give enough of a shit about.

What, next thing you'll tell me is that the World Trade Center collapse was orchestrated by the US government on 9/11?

 

[Chaplain]

Okay, first off, the only REAL music of the devil is the Blues, (and I play and sing them regularly)?

The Bible defines anything that is against God's truth as Satanic. A good example of a Satanic song would be this song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers:

Shallow Be Thy Game Lyrics

I was not created
In the likeness of a fraud
Your hell is something scary
I prefer a loving god
We are not the center
Of this funny universe
And what is worse
I do not serve
In fear of such a curse

Shallow be thy game
2000 years look in the mirror
You play the game of shame
And tell your people live in fear
A rival to the way you see
The bible let him be
I'm a threat to your survival
And your control company

You'll never burn me
You'll never burn me
I'll be your heretic
You can't contain me
I am the power free
Truth belongs to everybody

To anyone who's listening
You're not born into sin
The guilt they try and give you
Puke it in the nearest bin
Missionary madness
Sweep up culture with a broom
Trashing ancient ways
Is par for the bourse
It's fucking rude

To think that you're above
The laws of nature what a joke
Purple sashes feeding masses
Smoke on which to choke
I might be a monkey
When it comes to being holy
Fundamental hatred
Get down on your knees and...

You'll never burn me
You'll never burn me
I'll be your heretic
You can't contain me
I am the power free
Truth belongs to everybody

I was not created
In the likeness of a fraud
Your hell is something scary
I prefer a loving god
We are not the center
Of this funny universe
And what is something worse
I do not serve
In fear of such a...

You'll never burn me
You'll never burn me
I'll be your heretic
You can't contain me
I am the power free
Truth belongs to everybody

 

[Fernando Rocker]

The Bible defines anything that is against God's truth as Satanic. A good example of a Satanic song would be this song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers:

Wow... I have never heard about that song by the RHCP before... my respects for them went to the bottom just now.

 

[Chaplain]

Here is another example of a Satanic Song. I will only post a section of the song:

Jay-Z - Empire State Of Mind Lyrics

Lights is blinding,
girls need blinders
so they can step out of bounds quick,
the side lines is blind with casualties,
who sip the lite casually, then gradually become worse,
don’t bite the apple Eve,
caught up in the in crowd,
now you're in-style,
and in the winter gets cold en vogue with your skin out,
the city of sin is a pity on a whim.
good girls gone bad, the city's filled with them,
Mommy took a bus trip and now she got her bust out,
everybody ride her, just like a bus route,
Hail Mary to the city your a Virgin,
Jesus can’t save you, life starts when the church ends,
came here for school, graduated to the high life,
ball players, rap stars, addicted to the limelight,
MDMA got you feeling like a champion,
the city never sleeps better slip you a Ambien

 

[devenger]

Hey, guys, I'm back. I was having an interesting discussion with JGS, and wanted to pop over here when I saw GA post.

Do most Christians not believe in Hell?

For details:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27412325#post27412325

I just threw up the results of a search for hell from bible.org, and he had an interesting take on their meaning.

I want to be careful paraphrasing him, but basically that hell is more of, or simply, a second death, not an everlasting torture.

I've never heard that interpretation. I mean, I've heard of the second death, but I also took hellfire and brimstone and lakes of fire literally, which I guess isn't appropriate.

So ignore if I'm thread crashing, but I'll repeat my mantra that I'm not trolling.

Does anyone, you know, "burn" in Hell?

edit: sorry, scroll up from the link for JGS' breakdown

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Here is another example of a Satanic Song. I will only post a section of the song:

me thinks you didn't get the analogy.

 

[JCRedeems]

Here is another example of a Satanic Song. I will only post a section of the song:

Oh Jay Z, who has blatant Satanic/Illuminati/Occultic symbols in his music videos. The same with Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Rihanna etc. Look it up on Youtube. Some of it is so blatant there is no way you can explain it away.

Here you can see Jay Z wearing the shirt with the phrase popularized by Satanist Aleister Crowely, who considered himself the beast of Revelation and said he got the material for the book in which the phrase is in directly from Satan:

Many Rock N Roll stars idolized Aliester Crowely such as The Beatles and Led Zeppelin.

The truth is most secular music is of Satan and is used to pull people away from the truth which is Jesus Christ.

Before Satan was kicked out of heaven it is believed he lead worship of music. It reads instruments were part of his being:

Isa.14:11 – “Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.”

Ezekiel 28:13 - Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: THE WORKMANSHIP OF THY TIMBRELS AND OF THY PIPES WAS PREPARED IN THE DAY THAT THOU WAST CREATED.

It's no wonder Satan is using pop music today to sway the masses into his agenda.

As I said before many pop musicians openly admitted to be possessed by spirits. This is not something I am making up. Watch "They Sold Their Souls for Rock N Roll" by Joe Schimmel. He goes over artist after artist who openly admitted to it with direct quotes and/or interviews.

There are songs such as Another One Bites the Dust when played backwards you can hear "Start to Smoke Marijuanna" as clear as day. How is it possible to have a message played forward and backwards unless it came from the spiritual world?

Led Zepplin's "Stairway To Heaven" played backwards has several sentences words referring to Satan.

Some have even openly admitted they sold their souls to the devil for music playing abilities, fame and fortune. Satan has temporary control of the world until Jesus returns, otherwise he wouldn't have offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world if he worshiped him.

Katy Perry said she sold her soul to the devil in an interview. Some say she said it tongue in cheek, but did she really?

I don’t know if it is true but I read on the internet that in Snoop Dogg’s autobiography “Tha Doggfather” he admitted the devil came to him in a dream and offered him fame and fortune for his soul. Apparently he said yes. I know in one of his songs “Murder Was the Case” he talks about selling his soul to the devil and in in the video you can find blasphemous imagery such as upside cross.

Eminem admitted he sold his soul in several of his songs.

Kanye West said he sold his soul to the devil in a freestyle rap on stage.

Bob Dylan admitted or hinted that he sold his soul to the devil who he called the chief commander of this world and the world we cannot see. Kind of creepy. Some people in the Youtube comment section believe he was talking about God (Jesus), but we all know Jesus’ doesn’t make deals like that.

Here is a video on it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWpRv1JnuLE&feature=related

Here is a video of a regular joe who said while listening to Rock music devils offered him fame and fortune if he sold his soul. I think it’s a genuine testimony. I find it very interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONHU1c96PQY Part 1 of 8

I just read Lady Gaga said she channeled Alexander McQueen to write the song Judas (who is the person betrayed Jesus). She also said she bought a $5,000 "ghostbuster machine" because she is haunted by evil spirits. She said she has scary nightmares that she believes the devil is trying to take her but she uses the imagery of her nightmares for her shows. Lady Gaga is being used by devils to further Satan's agenda.

This is nothing unusual. Again, there are numerous musicians who openly admitted to being possessed or getting their music from spirits. There are so many musicians that Joe Schimmel's documentary is 4 hours long.

Christians know (at least I hope they know), that when people channel spirits they are really demons deceiving.

The Bible is clear: Satan seeks to devour, steal, kill and destroy. He's very subtle. He deceives the whole world. He's the father of lies, it's his native tongue.

 

[OttomanScribe]

Where is the Christian debate thread again? I couldn't find it in a search

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Thought I might get this debate back on track after the illuminati troll posts

The two most important questions I must ask before proceeding with a discussion. Thanks to the Theists who have already responded to my previous questions. I added in logical argument thanks to Ottomanscribe positing that position.

1: What evidence (if any), or logical argument persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any), or logical argument could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Oh Jay Z, who has blatant Satanic/Illuminati/Occultic symbols in his music videos. The same with Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Rihanna etc. Look it up on Youtube. Some of it is so blatant there is no way you can explain it away.

[lots of stuff]

Using literal interpretations of artistic analogy, allegory, metaphor, personification, hyperbole and creative color are usually poor ways to understand artwork of any kind, whether music, play or paint. Art is almost NEVER created to be taken at face value. What you see is the surface of more complicated points attempting to be made.

As such, in looking at them directly and literally, you just wind up wrong, as you miss all the context and purpose. This is not unusual, as most of us spend our time interpreting everything around us literally...but in the context of art, it's often times neither appropriate nor proposed by the artist as such.

I'd hate to see you at a modern art show.

 

[Nocebo]

The Bible defines anything that is against God's truth as Satanic. A good example of a Satanic song would be this song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers:

Thanks for the song recommendation. I hadn't heard this one yet. It's pretty good!

 

[Gileadxv]

Thought I might get this debate back on track after the illuminati troll posts

The two most important questions I must ask before proceeding with a discussion. Thanks to the Theists who have already responded to my previous questions. I added in logical argument thanks to Ottomanscribe positing that position.

1: What evidence (if any), or logical argument persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any), or logical argument could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

I was under the impression from the OP that this wasn't meant to be a debate thread, but a thread for Christians to gather and share their faith among each other. I fully respect the opinions of others, and I believe that discussion is a great way to broaden our knowledge and understanding of one another. However, I don't believe that was the intention of this particular thread.

The OP:

Hello, GAF!

Well... I decided to create this thread for all the Christians here on the forum. As you guys know, being a Christian here at GAF can be sometimes a little bit hard. There seems to be a predominat atheist population here at the forum. This thread is not created to discuss the existence of God. I respect Atheist-GAF, and I promise, I will never make a bad comment about you guys, and I will never try to convince you about what I believe. And I ask you the same kind of respect, please.

This thread is not created with the intention of discussing the existence of God. There are a lot of threads here at NeoGAF for that. In fact, I will post some links to those threads at the end of this post.

If you guys are posting here is because you believe in God.

I created this thread so we can share testimonies, stories about miracles that happened to you. We can share Bible passages, songs... anything you want!

God bless you, guys!


* Disclaimer: This post is still incomplete. I will update the OP with images, Bible passages, a brief introduction about Christianity, links, etc.


** I created this thread mostly for us Christian-GAF. If some of you guys want to debate about religion, you can go to this thread:

The Official Religion Thread

 

[hellclerk]

The Bible defines anything that is against God's truth as Satanic. A good example of a Satanic song would be this song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers:

Not only did you fail to pick up on my obvious joke, you also failed to comprehend the lyrics of that RHCP song as a criticism of fundamental abuse of religious structures. Rather, it speaks CLOSER to the truth than what you claim. "I prefer a loving God". And you don't?

The two most important questions I must ask before proceeding with a discussion. Thanks to the Theists who have already responded to my previous questions. I added in logical argument thanks to Ottomanscribe positing that position.

1: What evidence (if any), or logical argument persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any), or logical argument could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

1: None, or at least objective evidence. It's more of a spiritual thing. I suppose it's hard to describe. Filled with love perhaps? High on hope? I don't know, it was an understanding that sort of snuck up on me.

2: None. My understanding of God is broad enough that logic games don't really work, and sometimes the point is to not have a real, logical explanation. People are alot like that, but we still put our faith people daily. Putting faith in something I can't tangibly define, nor ever will isn't really something I care to do. There are more productive uses of my time.

Hope it helps, but I guess it's not really the place...

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Apologies, will post debate worthy topics in the Official Thread. Cheers

 

[Chaplain]

Not only did you fail to pick up on my obvious joke, you also failed to comprehend the lyrics of that RHCP song as a criticism of fundamental abuse of religious structures. Rather, it speaks CLOSER to the truth than what you claim. "I prefer a loving God". And you don't?

I prefer God who is Love:

"When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners. Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good. But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners."

As for the song, Jesus said the two greatest commands in life are to love God and our neighbors. These songs violate both commands.

 

[Raist]

Shallow be thy game a satanic song :lol
The fuck.

 

[Chaplain]

Shallow be thy game a satanic song :lol
The fuck.

Jesus said that the father of all lies is Satan. Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!"

These songs, as well as many others, lie about God and His Son. Thus, they are Satanic in origin because Satan is the one who is behind all lies.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

Jesus said that the father of all lies is Satan. Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!"

These songs, as well as many others, lie about God and His Son. Thus, they are Satanic in origin because Satan is the one who is behind all lies.

Good explanation.

Edit: By the way... is that from the 2011 New International Version Bible? I think I'm gonna buy that version.

 

[Raist]

Jesus said that the father of all lies is Satan. Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!"

These songs, as well as many others, lie about God and His Son. Thus, they are Satanic in origin because Satan is the one who is behind all lies.

These songs are the expression of their authors' views on the catholic church. It's not like we're talking about black metal here.

As for the bolded, so was the christian god before he became all peace and love.

 

[JGS]

Good explanation.

Edit: By the way... is that from the 2011 New International Version Bible? I think I'm gonna buy that version.

The thing to keep in mind is that Jesus was talking to people claiming to believe in God. So the implication of condemning something for being Satanic is far more reaching than music lyrics. It literally involves condemning anything expressly ungodly or ones who claim to be Christian but whose actions point to a contrary course.

Quite frankly, songs that outright oppose God are the least of a Christian's problem. The bigger danger is in listening to music that claims to praise God but doesn't or listening to artist who claim to worship him but don't really based on their actions. Those are the things that influence believers.

To be clear, I think if you know your stuff, most of this is of no consequence unless you are flat out listening to demon worship music.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

These songs are the expression of their authors' views on the catholic church. It's not like we're talking about black metal here.

As for the bolded, so was the christian god before he became all peace and love.

Well... He is the one who give you life and can take it away. That's not murder.

 

[Chaplain]

Good explanation.

Edit: By the way... is that from the 2011 New International Version Bible? I think I'm gonna buy that version.

It is from the New Living Translation.

To be clear, I think if you know your stuff, most of this is of no consequence unless you are flat out listening to demon worship music.

I think it would be of no consequence to any Christian grounded in the Word. The problem is that the majority of the entertainment created today is that it is done to push people away from God. Satan is the god of this world and his views can be seen in what we listen to or watch.

These songs are the expression of their authors' views on the catholic church. It's not like we're talking about black metal here.

As for the bolded, so was the christian god before he became all peace and love.

Well the lyrics do say that he was not created by God, that Jesus isn't loving, that there are no consequences for rejecting Jesus, & people are not sinners. Each statement is a attack on the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.

 

[Raist]

Well... He is the one who give you life and can take it away. That's not murder.

People who murder their children should definitely try that line of defense in court.

Well the lyrics do say that he was not created by God, that Jesus isn't loving, that there are no consequences for rejecting Jesus, & people are not sinners. Each statement is a attack on the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.

Religion is not immune to criticism. Deal with it.
Besides Kiedis is a Kabbalist so he does believe in god. Just not the same than you.

 

[JGS]

I think it would be of no consequence to any Christian grounded in the Word. The problem is that the majority of the entertainment created today is that it is done to push people away from God. Satan is the god of this world and his views can be seen in what we listen to or watch.

This is definitely true. However, one also has to be sure to not pick and choose.

The Bible makes it clear that to the best of our ability, we should be no part of the world although we have a tendency to slip. Therefore, if we condemn some music we would probably need to quit entertainment altogether since there's no reason to think any of it has God's backing even if it's "clean" unless it is specifically designed to praise him.

Of course, most of us realize that compromises are needed in order to enjoy entertainment, since most are not gifted within ourselves. I probably go further in my acceptance of things than most, but very few outright reject all entertainment the world has to offer.

 

[Chaplain]

Religion is not immune to criticism. Deal with it.

I was just explaining the Biblical view on lyrics that lie about God and His Son. That is all.

Besides Kiedis is a Kabbalist so he does believe in god. Just not the same than you.

God says there are many false gods. Here is a article on just some of the ones mentioned in the Bible:

Exodus 20:2-3
“I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. You must not have any other god but me."

In this simple phrase, we see a premise and a promise. The premise is that there are indeed other gods…

Baal was the god who supposedly hurled lightning down from heaven (1 Kings 18:24). Baal was the god of power. Munching on power bars, listening to power tapes, thinking they’re powerful and in control, lots of people still unknowingly worship Baal today.

Ashteroth was the goddess of sensuality, of pleasure—a goddess worshiped extensively in our society by those with the “if it feels good, do it” mentality.

Mammon was the god of money, the god of prosperity. Because it is the love of money, rather than money itself, which is evil (1 Timothy 6:10), it is not only the wealthy who are prone to worship mammon. Anyone who places a priority on money, worries about money, strives for money is vulnerable.

Molloch was the god of practicality. To earn Molloch’s blessing upon his new business, the Molloch worshiper would place his firstborn in an earthen jar and build the walls of his shop around it, believing that the baby entombed within the wall wasn’t really dead, but would reappear in his next child. Many a parent does virtually the same thing today when, in the name of practicality, they ignore their children in the name of advancing their career, mistakenly thinking that once their business is successful, their place in the company secure, they can reconnect with their kids. The problem, however, is that kids grow up; time is lost; and opportunity dies on the altar of practicality.

The Ten Commandments is the only law of antiquity that forbids the worship of other gods. All other codes and cultures allowed, even encouraged, the worship of other deities. Why? Because all other gods work as a team to bring hell into peoples’ lives and to damn them eternally. There will be no other gods before the true and living God because those gods will not come through ultimately. In the last day, every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus alone is Lord (Philippians 2:10, 11). And what a day that will be.

 

[Chaplain]

Here is a awesome explanation of 1 Corinthians Chapter 13:

• God says love should be directed torward others.
The world says love should be directed toward ourselves.
• God says love is patient and kind.
The world says love satisfies your immediate needs.
• God says love is never jealous or envious.
The world says love means that you deserve the "best".
• God says love is never boastful or proud.
The World says love isn't necessary to make people respect you.
• God says love is never rude.
The world says love lets you act as you please.
• God says love does not demand its own way.
The world says love gets in the way of what is in it for me.
• God says love is not irritable and it holds no grudges.
The world says love takes a backseat when it comes to seeking revenge.
God says love rejoices in justice and truth.
The world says love understands-even ignores-evil.
• God says love is loyal.
The world says love should be self-serving.

 

[Malajax]

Hey guys. I need some advice.

So, I would identify myself as Christian, but I tend to do my own thing. I listen to hip hop with a lot of obscenities, I go to clubs to hang out with friends, I like reading and learning about many things, like anthropology... In short, I'm probably not a good Christian. I do love going to church and getting some Word when I can. Don't particularly know why, but that's not really the point right now (maybe just a bit later though).

I have 3 sisters and we lived in the same house up until last April when our parents split. My older sister and my twin sister moved in together(they're the most religious and I'll refer to them as R&J), my younger sister moved in with her boyfriend, and I stayed with my mother. The only time I get to see R&J regularly is at church. We went to a big church at the time and it was great because I really didn't have to talk to anybody (I'm really shy around people I don't know).

It was great until the beginning of the year (2011). It was around this time that R&J (and by extension L because he married R early this year) got more involved with the duo I'll refer to as T&C. T&C are a married couple in their late 20s and are extremely religious. I think they're kind of crazy, but more on that later.

In early January we started going to a satellite church of Creflo Dollar, which was all well and good, but I was a bit uncomfortable due to it being much smaller than the church I was attending previously. This continued until about March when T&C decided to put the plans in motion for their own ministry. They're believing to have this building soon. In the meantime we have church outside this building. So church consists of prayer, followed by walking the grounds (Gen 13:14-18), praise and worship, and the Word. This was all well and good. I enjoyed it up until Easter.

For the longest, Easter Sunday was the target date we were supposed to be inside the building. That didn't happen, but whatever. The faithful walk not by sight (think I got that right), so I think they'll get into it eventually. This Sunday, though, seemed to be a bit more emotional. The first thing T asked me was if I was going to commit myself fully to their ministry. I said honestly that I hadn't thought about it. He then says to pray about it and moves on to the rest of the lesson, about how to know when you've found the right ministry and so on. He declared that he heard from God that, "the days of the weak Christian are over", and that if we're not fully committed to the ministry we should leave because he refuses to have "weak faith" or people not of God to bring down the ministry. "I'd rather you be mad at me and go to Heaven than loving me and going to Hell", he says.

Here's the problem: I don't want to fully join their church. For one, I'm not the best Christian. I listen to secular things, I watch secular TV, I think secular thoughts... my understanding is that anything not of the Lord needs to be done away with. The things that remain that are not of the Lord are temptations of the Devil and will lead to sin. Basically I'd have to stop talking to my friends, I'd have to stop reading and watching the things I enjoy (or at least severely limit them)... Basically I'd have to turn my entire life around. Right, that's what it means to get saved and all that, but I'm not ready for it. I guess you could say the devil has a hold of me... I don't want to be apart of their or any ministry if I'm not totally right with God. I end up lying to them enough about some of the things I do. If I join their ministry and continue with those things it would kill me.

Secondly, T&C can sound pretty nuts sometimes. I feel as though they're extremists, like not too far off from the KKK. Again, they encourage cutting off people who "are not of God". Many of my friends are of Muslim, a really good friend of mine grew up Mormon, I have no problem with gay people. I have to end all that? He speaks in cult terms that I've never seen other churches use aside from... well, cults. He claims to hear directly from God and that he's the "leader" of this big cause that's beyond the scope of my understanding. I guess you could say that's general faithful talk about being prosperous, but it weirds me out when he goes into that stuff.

Thirdly, he wanted me to pray about it. Well, I've never heard from God and have no idea what He sounds like. I've been saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, but that hasn't helped. I suppose it's my lack of faith. From my understanding, however, the Holy Spirit is basically a conscience. My conscience is definitely telling me no.

Fourthly, I might lose my sisters because of this. Again, T&C firmly believe that whatever is "not of God" or "disobeying God" needs to be cast out. For example, R got married to L in January. R's best friend was of course her bridesmaid. When T&C started their ministry they wanted R's bridesmaid and her husband to join. When they turned it down, T&C claimed that they were "disobeying God" and to stop contacting them. Well, I guess I'm in their shoes now.

So what do I do? What can I do? T&C are expecting an answer this Sunday and I really don't know. My sisters and I don't have much in common, but I do like spending time with them. T&C aren't so bad when they're not being crazy either. They're all nice people. It'd be a shame to lose them over something like this.

TL;DR I'm being asked to join a ministry that I don't agree with, but by refusing to join I am possibly losing my sisters.

I know I was all over the place, but I'll clarify if necessary. Thanks.

 

[JGS]

Hey guys. I need some advice.

TL;DR I'm being asked to join a ministry that I don't agree with, but by refusing to join I am possibly losing my sisters.

I know I was all over the place, but I'll clarify if necessary. Thanks.

I would face the truth and accept the fact that you will do what you want to do until something changes you. So I would not waste their time and avoid joining. Worship by force never works and you wind up deceiving your sisters just because you're scared to lose them. In the end you probably won't, but it still beats living a lie (Since they are usually exposed).

Holy spirit is not your conscience btw. It helps it by verifying what is right. However, if you don't know what's right, it's it's of no real use to you until you read up on right and wrong.

 

[kinggroin]

'Sup guys. If you can remember, my wife and I can use your prayers. She's about to start her medical degree but we cant move forward until we can find someone affordable to watch our kids. Daycare is too expensive, and we make too much for any assistance in regards to that. So hopefully some doors open up and my wife can complete her courses (shes excited too since she is one of only twelve that got accepted into the program for the year).


Thanks!

 

[marathonfool]

....

That's a tough situation. It sounds like you want to maintain your relationship with your sisters and you feel like the only way is to fully commit to this ministry.

The short answer is don't. From everything you wrote, it sounds like a bad idea. You don't trust the leader and you're not passionate about his ministry. It's not a good situation to put yourself in. The bigger issue is how your relationship with your sisters will change if you don't commit to the ministry.

Here's the long answer. From what I read, your sisters are your connection to the local church community. In your own mind or you have learned that there's a distinct separation between Christian or secular activities. This world view is an extension of a literal interpretation of certain Bible verses and themes. It is especially prominent in the contemporary Evangelical movement. Many Evangelical Christians strictly adhere to this principle and live in a vacuum of believers. I think the tension you feel in your interests and the ministry is that dichotomy.

I see two dilemmas. One that is concerned about your relationship with your sisters. The other one rooted in your(and your sisters) Christian worldview. The latter being a main culprit.

I don't have any easy answers or advice. I will say that Jesus is not one to cut people off from his life. He didn't view people as commodity to reaffirm his identity or worldview. I hope your sisters understand the gospel is not about dividing people into believers and non-believers. It was about reconciliation and community.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Thought I might get this debate back on track after the illuminati troll posts

The two most important questions I must ask before proceeding with a discussion. Thanks to the Theists who have already responded to my previous questions. I added in logical argument thanks to Ottomanscribe positing that position.

1: What evidence (if any), or logical argument persuaded you that there was an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator?

2: What evidence (if any), or logical argument could be presented that would change your mind about this creators existence?

if youre looking for that smoking gun to open your mind to christianity, its better to get to know another christian. taking someone's words on gaf is by itself accepting it by faith.
i dont can't speak for others, but experiences and testimony is much too fantastical to post here.
if you really do seek the God of the universe, i invite you to pray with your heart and not your mind. He always responds. one way or another. that i can guarantee.

 

[Fernando Rocker]

Hey guys. I need some advice...

My humble recommendation. Why don't you try to find a Church or a Congregation you really truly enjoy?

And I mean truly enjoy... one Church or Congregation that every Sunday you are really happy to go.

I really enjoy going to my Church. I enjoy the musical aspect of it (my Church is very very musical) and the Pastor is such a nice guy. It is a joy to go.

 

[jl4855]

i agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCoHxX1OC8

that girl is so pretty

that's brooke fraser. doesnt strictly sing with hillsong anymore has a few albums out pretty good live too.

 

[hellclerk]

TL;DR I'm being asked to join a ministry that I don't agree with, but by refusing to join I am possibly losing my sisters.

I know I was all over the place, but I'll clarify if necessary. Thanks.

Really, the best idea for your person and for your theology is to refuse. Though before you leave, I'd suggest pointing out that such a ministry that ejects those of softer faith is doomed to weakness and eventual failure. Christian ministry should be about love and acceptance, not single-mindedness and exclusion. Run this by your sisters too, and maybe you'll be able to convince T&C otherwise.

 

[Raist]

God says there are many false gods. Here is a article on just some of the ones mentioned in the Bible:

I'm not sure the correct interpretation is that they are "false gods" even according to what Yawveh (well, supposedly...) said. From the OT it appears that he acknowledges the existence of other (most probably babylonian) gods but just says that people shouldn't worship them. Then appears the notion of one ond only true god, but that was much later.

It's quite well explained in these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8&feature=related

 

[JGS]

You pretty much have to acknowledge there were other gods since they were being worshipped. Even atheists now have to acknowledge that god is worshipped. It didn't mean they existed though.

Biblically, the only other supernatural beings to worry about would be Satan and his clan who could easily mimic other gods' abilities, ghosts, or some other phenomena. In fact, Satan could mimic ones claiming to be with God.

 

[Chaplain]

Easter service sermons (right click and click save as):

4/24/2011 - Xavier Ries - Jesus Conquered Death - Selected Scriptures

04/24/11 - Chuck Smith - Psalm 96 through 105

Click to video stream:

Easter 2011 - Jon Courson, Ben Courson - 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 - 04-24-11

April 24, 2011 - With Mike MacIntosh - John 19 - Easter Service

4/24/2011 - Greg Laurie - Easter, So What? - John 21

Bob Coy - Salvation So Great - 04/24/2011

04/24/11 - Easter Service - Pancho Juarez

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Don't know if this has been posted here yet.

For the record, I usually don't like contemporary Christian music, or modern country music...but this is AWESOME. (And judging by the 3,000,000+ hits it's gotten, others agree)

At least it's a traditional hymn. And Carrie Underwood is undeniably gorgeous, and Vince Gill can play the crap outta that guitar:

Carrie Underwood with Vince Gill - How Great Thou Art

 

[DanteFox]

Derren Brown - Miracles for Sale

Fascinating documentary where Derren Brown uses an initially unsuspecting person to expose the "faith healing" industry.

It's sickening how some of these people twist the gospel for profit.

 

[Chaplain]

Here is the latest Bible study from my church last night. This study goes in depth about false teachers who are deceivers, believers that are deceived by false teachers & the destruction that it causes for believers:

Right click and then save as to download the mp3:

4/28/2011 - False Teachers & Their Victims - 2 Peter 2:17-22

2 Peter 2:17-22

"These people are as useless as dried-up springs or as mist blown away by the wind. They are doomed to blackest darkness. They brag about themselves with empty, foolish boasting. With an appeal to twisted sexual desires, they lure back into sin those who have barely escaped from a lifestyle of deception. They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves of sin and corruption. For you are a slave to whatever controls you. And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.” And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

 

[Chaplain]

Starting today I am going to start posting links to weekly verse-by-verse Bible studies from various churches. Just click on one of the links and watch the video:

Pastor Jon Courson - Revelation 12 (04-27-11)
Pastor Evan Wickham - Acts 2:22-41 (4-27-11)
Pastor Greg Laurie - Acts 1 (4/28/2011)
Pastor Bob Coy - Matthew 28:19 (04/27/2011)
Pastor Brian Brodersen - Romans 6:1-14 (04/27/2011)
Pastor Skip Heitzig - Exodus 19:1-20:7 (04/27/2011)

2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Dever]

Derren Brown - Miracles for Sale

Fascinating documentary where Derren Brown uses an initially unsuspecting person to expose the "faith healing" industry.

It's sickening how some of these people twist the gospel for profit.

Thanks, I love this kind of stuff.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Derren Brown - Miracles for Sale

Fascinating documentary where Derren Brown uses an initially unsuspecting person to expose the "faith healing" industry.

It's sickening how some of these people twist the gospel for profit.

is darren brown implying the healing through the holy spirit died in the first century church?

 

[DanteFox]

is darren brown implying the healing through the holy spirit is dead in modern times?

No. He even says so throughout various parts of the video that he's not trying to comment on religion or faith as a whole. He's just trying to expose what he sees as certain people taking advantage of people's faith.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

No. He even says so throughout various parts of the video that he's not trying to comment on religion or faith as a whole. He's just trying to expose what he sees as certain people taking advantage of people's faith.

from his own mouth:

"i dont believe that faith healers are somehow channeling the holy spirit. I think they are using the same tricks hypnotists, magicians, and phony psychics used to manipulate an audience. And despite what they claim, no healer has ever been able to produce a single piece of evidence of miraculous healing having actually occured."

i well accept there are frauds, many of them. but to claim God does not heal from prayers is dead set wrong.

 

[DanteFox]

he never said that God does not heal from prayers.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

if youre looking for that smoking gun to open your mind to christianity, its better to get to know another christian. taking someone's words on gaf is by itself accepting it by faith.
i dont can't speak for others, but experiences and testimony is much too fantastical to post here.
if you really do seek the God of the universe, i invite you to pray with your heart and not your mind. He always responds. one way or another. that i can guarantee.

I didn't ask for personal experience, I know Christians and have attended church before, I was once a christian (well at least I thought I was). I asked for evidence and/or logical arguments. I moved my questions to the official Religion thread anyway, so we can discuss it there.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

he never said that God does not heal from prayers.

what do you think laying of the hands is?
its a first century christian practice. where a prayer is made and the one praying may or may not put their hands on the prayee's body. and through their prayer, impartation occurs.


he said:

"i dont believe that faith healers are somehow channeling the holy spirit.

in other words, he's claiming the practice of faith healing is false.