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There's basically been a steady uptick in passive aggressive hostility towards Christians and the church and it has been going on for years. More and more are leaving the faith, more and more at least appear to be blaming Christians for societal ills instead of embracing Christians and faith as part of the cure. Does it qualify as outright persecution? No, I don't believe so. But the tide at least to me appears to be changing in the public square.

It is biblical that persecution has happened early in the church history, and many interpret the prophecies of the old and new testament to point to persecution in the end days. So if you're a Christian, it's not unreasonable to see current reality and believe that the path has been set towards the inevitable. If you're not a Christian, not one to believe in prophecy, then of course you would draw different conclusions.
 

Chaplain

Member
There's basically been a steady uptick in passive aggressive hostility towards Christians and the church and it has been going on for years. More and more are leaving the faith, more and more at least appear to be blaming Christians for society ills instead of embracing Christians and faith as part of the cure. Does it qualify has outright persecution? No, I don't believe so. But the tide at least to me appears to be changing in the public square.

It is biblical that persecution has happened early in the church history, and many interpret the prophecies of the old and new testament to point to persecution in the end days. So if you're a Christian, it's not unreasonable to see current reality and believe that the path has been set towards the inevitable. If you're not a Christian, not one to believe in prophecy, then of course you would draw different conclusions.

Well said bro.
 

Chaplain

Member
I am Michael Bolton,

One last thing. Things are changing in our country that just a year ago would of been unheard of. Like the following story:

LAS VEGAS (CN) - Henderson police arrested a family for refusing to let officers use their homes as lookouts for a domestic violence investigation of their neighbors, the family claims in court.

Police took Anthony and Michael Mitchell to jail and booked them for obstructing an officer. They were jailed for at least nine hours before they bailed out, they say in the complaint. All criminals charged were dismissed with prejudice. They claim the defendants filed the baseless criminal charges "to provide cover for defendants' wrongful actions, to frustrate and impede plaintiffs' ability to seek relief for those actions, and to further intimidate and retaliate against plaintiffs."

None of the officers were ever subjected to official discipline or even inquiry, the complaint states.

The Mitchells seek punitive damages for violations of the third, fourth and 14th Amendments, assault and battery, conspiracy, defamation, abuse of process, malicious prosecution, negligence and emotional distress.
 
There's basically been a steady uptick in passive aggressive hostility towards Christians and the church and it has been going on for years. More and more are leaving the faith, more and more at least appear to be blaming Christians for societal ills instead of embracing Christians and faith as part of the cure. Does it qualify as outright persecution? No, I don't believe so. But the tide at least to me appears to be changing in the public square.

It is biblical that persecution has happened early in the church history, and many interpret the prophecies of the old and new testament to point to persecution in the end days. So if you're a Christian, it's not unreasonable to see current reality and believe that the path has been set towards the inevitable. If you're not a Christian, not one to believe in prophecy, then of course you would draw different conclusions.

Sure, that is true. My issue is that this notion that we're being persecuted in this terrible way in the U.S. isn't accurate (I don't believe you hold this position GA). You constantly hear it in certain evangelical circles, talk radio, and your lay person theorizing. There's an eb and flow in life, at least in this country. I will say that the evangelical community in the U.S. hasn't helped itself in terms of trying to communicate that there'a persecution that may exist, atleast on a micro level.

There is no more powerful group in this country than the evangelicals and yet you'll consistently hear on Sunday's from the pulpit that they're being treated terribly and can fully appreciate and understand what the first century Christians went through or those from other countries. That because the government doesn't allow public employee's or those who earn tax benefits due to their business or piece of land to deny service to gays and lesbians that somehow this world is close to the rapture or it's a sign of Satan's influence and power.

Too often you have churches, pastors, and lay persons alike trying to talk about prophecy and what the signs are telling us. The end times have been happening according to one community or another since the first century church. The believers in the first century expected Armageddon to happen in their life time. Same with the second, third, fourth, and fifth generation of believers. For some reason, especially since the 19th century with the influx of the Millenial groups like the JW's, LDS, Seventh Day Adventists, and others, the U.S. churches have been absolutely OBSESSED with end times and they don't seem to ever miss an opportunity to claim that what ever the current event is is proof that the rapture is at hand.

It's annoying.


I am Michael Bolton,

One last thing. Things are changing in our country that just a year ago would of been unheard of. Like the following story:

No. This isn't unheard of. The only difference now is there is a 24/7 media, internet, and social networking. You're telling me that there weren't crooked cops, attorneys, and courts 50 years ago? Did you not pay attention to the Civil Rights movement? Innocent men, women, and children being beaten, arrested, imprisoned day and night simply for being black. Did you not pay attention to WW2 when we locked up people in camps simply for being Japanese? Did you not pay attention to the Civil War when Pres.Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus? You're simply trying to find evidence of something that isn't there. Sorry.
 

Chaplain

Member
No. This isn't unheard of. The only difference now is there is a 24/7 media, internet, and social networking. You're telling me that there weren't crooked cops, attorneys, and courts 50 years ago? Did you not pay attention to the Civil Rights movement? Innocent men, women, and children being beaten, arrested, imprisoned day and night simply for being black. Did you not pay attention to WW2 when we locked up people in camps simply for being Japanese? Did you not pay attention to the Civil War when Pres.Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus? You're simply trying to find evidence of something that isn't there. Sorry.

You are right. My example did not flow with everything else I shared. Ty for the correction.
 

Chaplain

Member
New Audio Bible Studies:

(Right Click/Save As)

Sunday Morning (Expostional Sermon)

7-7-2013 - The God of Daniel (Daniel 2,3,4,6)

Sunday Evening (Through the Bible, Verse by Verse)

7/7/2013 - Daniel 7:1-14

Tuesday Evening Summer Series

7/9/2013 - Ephesians 4:20-21 (Summer Series)

Apologetic Lectures

2/13/2010 - John Lennox: Transforming Our Workplaces
6/29/2011 - John Lennox: The Historical Prophecy Of Isaiah
12/16/2012 - John Lennox: The Virgin Birth
10/12/2008 - John Lennox: Responding To The New Atheism (Part One)
10/12/2008 - John Lennox: Responding To The New Atheism (Part Two)
3/13/2013 - John Lennox & Michael Ramsden: Questions and Answers - Has science made God irrelevant?
3/14/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds - Is Faith a Delusion?
3/14/2013 - John Lennox & Michael Ramsden: Questions and Answers - Is Faith a delusion?
3/17/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds (looking at the beginning of the book of John)
3/17/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds (looking at the life of Daniel)
6/26/2013 - John Lennox: National Prayer Breakfast (at the House of Parliament)

The Way, The Truth, The Life

6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Way - Don’t All Paths Lead to God? (Session 1)
6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Truth - That's just for you! (Session 2)
6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Life - A world of suffering, is life worth living? (Session 3)

Christianity: Dangerous, Divisive and Delusional?

1/5/2008 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Dangerous (Session 1)
1/5/2008 - Michael Ramsden: Divisive (Session 2)
1/5/2008 - Revd Joe Boot: Delusional (Session 3)
1/5/2008 - Question & Answer Session (Session 4)

The West and the Rest – Contemporary Challenges

1/7/2008 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Jihad or Tolerare Malus? (Session 1)
1/7/2008 - John Lennox: The Dawkins Delusion and the Singer Syndrome (Session 2)
1/7/2008 - Michael Ramsden: The West and the Rest (Session 3)
1/7/2008 - Michael Ramsden: God is good...some of the time? (Session 4)

Uncertain Times, Certain Hope – Confidence in a Time of Doubt

2/7/2009 - Alister McGrath: Engaging the New Atheism - Science and Faith (Session 1)
2/7/2009 - John Lennox: Engaging the New Atheism - Ethics (Session 2)
2/7/2009 - Michael Ramsden: Divorce from Reality (Session 3)
2/7/2009 - Michael Green: Confidence in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Session 4)
2/7/2009 - Question & Answer Session (Session 5)

Faith or Fantasy? Reasons for the Hope

6/28/2010 - Michael Ramsden: To Be or Not to Be - The Reality of the Hope (Session 1)
6/28/2010 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Why Trust the Bible? (Session 2)
6/28/2010 - John Lennox: Reasonable Faith (Session 3)
6/28/2010 - Michael Green: Are you Trying to Convert me? (Session 4)

Good God, Bad God? Vital Questions for a Confused World

7/26/2010 - Michael Ramsden: Good God, Bad God? (Session 1)
7/26/2010 - Alister McGrath: Science and Faith (Session 2)
7/26/2010 - Michael Lloyd: Darwin, and the Problem of Evil (Session 3)
7/26/2010 - Amy Orr-Ewing: God of War (Session 4)
7/26/2010 - Question & Answer Panel Session (Session 5)

Is God Really Good?

9/20/2010 - John Lennox: If God is so great why is there so much suffering? (Session 2)
9/20/2010 - Michael Green: Can we really trust the New Testament (Session 3)
9/20/2010 - Question & Answer Session (Session 5)

Doubt

4/22/2011 - John Lennox: Doubt and Confidence - A Biblical and Scientific Perspective (Session 2)
4/22/2011 - John Lennox: Doubt and Confidence - Question and Answer Session (Session 3)
4/22/2011 - Michael Ramsden & Amy Orr-Ewring: Contemporary challenges faced by those of faith (# 4)
4/22/2011 - Tonya Walker: Cultural Doubt (Session 5)
4/22/2011 - Question & Answer Session (Session 6)

The Pursuit of Happiness

5/2/2012 - Michael Ramsden: Restrained by Religion?
5/16/2012 - Michael Ramsden: One God, Many Paths?

Big Issues

6/6/2012 - Tom Price: How could a good God let bad things happen?

The Pursuit of Happiness

6/10/2012 - Vince Vitale: Loving God: World of Pain

Backgrounds on each of the people who give lectures:

"John Lennox is Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, and Adjunct Professor at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. He is also a Fellow in Mathematics and Philosophy of Science at Green Templeton College, Oxford. Interested in the interface of science, philosophy, and theology, he lectures worldwide and has written books on Christian apologetics, including God’s Undertaker, Has Science Buried God?, God and Stephen Hawking, Seven Days that Divide the World and Gunning for God. In the past six years, Professor Lennox has debated a number of the world’s leading atheists including Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Hitchens."

"Michael Ramsden has been European Director of RZIM Zacharias Trust since its foundation in 1997. He is also Director of the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics and Lecturer in Christian Apologetics at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. While at Sheffield University doing research in Law and Economics, Michael taught Moral Philosophy and lectured for the International Seminar on Jurisprudence and Human Rights in Strasbourg. He has been invited to lecture in settings from Madrassas in Pakistan, to the White House staff in Washington, D.C., and has addressed leaders at NATO HQ in Brussels and Members of the European Parliament."

"Amy Orr-Ewing is the Training Director of the RZIM and Director of Programmes for the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. She speaks at many universities, churches, and conferences. Her book Why Trust the Bible? (published as Is the Bible Intolerant? in North America) was shortlisted for the 2006 UK Christian Book Awards, and But Is It Real? (published as Is Believing in God Irrational? in North America) was released in the summer of 2008."

"Rev. Joe Boot is the senior pastor of Westminster Chapel in Toronto and founder of the Ezra Institute for Contemporary Christianity. He and his wife are originally from England, having come to Canada to work in Christian apologetics, worldview education and evangelism, focusing on students and those that shape the ideas of culture. He served with Ravi Zacharias for seven years as an apologist in the U.K. and Canada, working for five years as Canadian Director of RZIM. Prior to this, he served as an associate pastor with Christ Church in Fulham, London U.K. In his first ministry role, he travelled extensively as National Evangelist for Saltmine Trust in the U.K. Joe has spoken all over the world in 25 countries, in numerous universities, seminaries, churches, colleges, and conferences, including venues like Eton College Windsor, Oxford University, the University of Western Ontario, Ottawa University, London School of Theology, Virginia Tech, and Forman University in Lahore, Pakistan. He has regularly addressed business leaders and professionals in North America and the Middle East and has publically debated leading atheistic thinkers and philosophers in Canada and the USA. Joe did his undergraduate studies in theology at Birmingham Christian College, England, and earned his Master's Degree from the University of Manchester for his research in the field of missiology which focused on 'Christian Apologetics' and the 'Cultural Mandate.' As well as being a contributing author to Thomas Nelson's major apologetics volume, Beyond Opinion, Joe's own apologetic works include, Searching for Truth, Why I Still Believe, and his latest volume, How Then Shall We Answer, which have been published in Europe and North America. His new work on biblical missiology, The Mission of God, is soon to be released. In 2011, Joe was recognized by Toronto's Centre for Mentorship and Theological Reflection as 'Best Preacher Apologist' for his contribution to apologetic and expository preaching. He is general editor of the EICC's journal, Jubilee, and can be regularly seen on the Michael Coren Show or heard on the John Oakley morning show for "Culture Wars." Joe lives in Toronto with his wife, Jenny, and their three children, Naomi, Hannah, and Isaac."

"Alister McGrath is Professor of Theology, Ministry, and Education at King’s College, London, Senior Research Fellow at Harris Manchester College, Oxford, and President of the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. He travels extensively to speak at conferences and missions. His writings include his acclaimed book on apologetics, Bridge Building, his widely popular Christian Theology: An Introduction and various titles on science and religion, such as A Fine Tuned Universe and The Open Secret: A New Vision for Natural Theology. He has also written a number of titles on atheism including Dawkins’ God, The Dawkins Delusion? and The Twilight of Atheism."

"Dr. Michael Green, Chaplain and Lecturer at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. Dr. Green is a prolific author, having written over 50 books, and has been heavily engaged in evangelism and apologetics for many years, being involved in radio and TV debates with prominent atheists and opponents of Christianity , and writing on the subject for Christians, skeptics and agnostics."

"Michael Lloyd, who is Tutor in Theology at St. Paul’s Theological Center (SPTC), completed his doctoral thesis on the problem of evil at Oxford University. Following this, he was on staff at St. James the Less in Pimlico before returning to Oxford to teach doctrine at St. Stephen's House. He was also a member of Oxford University's Faculty of Theology. He also is the author of Cafe Theology, published by Alpha International."

"Tanya Walker is an Apologist for RZIM Europe and a guest lecturer at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. Her undergraduate degree was in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from Christ Church, Oxford University, and she holds an MA in Islamic Studies and a PhD which considers the implications of Islamic law in the West (both from the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London). Tanya co-leads the Evangelists Network for the European Leadership Forum, and the RZIM Europe training weekends. She has been invited to address a range of groups and contexts, including the Parliamentary Forum on Religious Freedom in Ottowa and the Global Church Forum arising from the Lausanne Congress, as well as university missions and church groups. Tanya is married to Toby and they are based in Oxford."

"Tom Price is an Academic Tutor at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics, and an Associate Tutor at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He holds degrees in Christian Apologetics (MA) and Philosophy (BA). Tom is also a speaker for RZIM Europe as well as Damaris, and was previously the founding Editor of UCCF’s website bethinking.org. Tom’s specific interests include: meta-ethics, analytic and continental arguments for God, faith and reason, suffering, cultural apologetics, film and C. S. Lewis. He is passionate about mission that engages with where people really are."

"Vince Vitale is Senior Tutor at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics, Tutor in Philosophy and Mission at Wycliffe Hall, a member of the Faculty of Theology and Religion at the University of Oxford, and a speaker for RZIM. He holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy and an M.Phil. in Theology, both from the University of Oxford. He has also taught at Princeton University in the Philosophy and Religion Departments. His primary research interests are in philosophy of religion, epistemology, and ethics."

Illogical Unbelief: Common excuses people give to avoid the truth of the Gospel

Excuses for Not Coming to Christ, pt. 1 (Selected Scriptures)

What is discussed:

1. I can't believe in something I can't see or understand.
2. I can't believe in a God who would send people to hell.
3. I can't accept that a man is evil.
4. I don't want to be around to be around hypocrites.

Excuses for Not Coming to Christ, pt. 2 (Selected Scriptures)

What is discussed:

1. I don't believe in a heaven or a hell.
2. I can't believe God became a man.
3. I can't believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible.
4. I can't believe in a God who allows the atrocities of this world to take place.

New Blog Studies

Deuteronomy 25 - Limits on Corporal Punishment, Why Is There a Command to not Muzzle an Ox?, Marriage Obligations for Married Brother's who have Died, Wives were Forbidden to Interfere in their Husband’s fight, What did the Amalekites do to Israel?, & Why is Amalek a Type of the Flesh?

Deuteronomy 26 - Instruction for bringing the Firstfruits to the Priests, Why did God send Jacob and his family to Egypt?, What is the proper way to worship God?, Does God want us to be happy?, Who was the tithe given to on the third year?, The prayer for the giving of the tithe, & Moses’ exhortations to Israel

Deuteronomy 27 - Moses instructs Israel to set a special altar, Becoming the people of the LORD our God, The division of the tribes between the two mountains, The declaration of the curses & Is it possible to keep God's Laws (all 616) without ever breaking any of them?

Deuteronomy 28 - A list of Blessings and Curses given to Israel if they chose to obey or disobey & Prophecies that occurred because Israel disobeyed God

Deuteronomy 29 - Renewal of the Palestinian Covenant, Seeing is not Believing?, God’s great works for Israel in the wilderness, What should be the response to a person who sees God's great works?, Can a person be at peace if they are in willful rebellion? & Are there secrets that God has not revealed to mankind?
 

Chaplain

Member
New Audio Bible Studies:

(Right Click/Save As)

Sunday Morning (Expostional Sermon)

7/14/2013- The Arrival of God's Kingdom (Daniel 7:9-14)
7/21/2013: Past/Current events regarding the One World Government & the Antichrist (Daniel 8:23-25)

Sunday Evening (Through the Bible, Verse by Verse)

7/14/2013 - Daniel 7:15-28
7/21/2013 - Daniel 8

Tuesday Evening Summer Series

7/16/2013 - Ephesians 4:22 (Summer Series)

Thursday Evening Bible Study (In-Depth)

7/18/2013 - Faith is Active (James 2:14-17)

Pastor's Conference Study

Should Christians Drink Alcohol? (Ephesians 5:18)

Apologetics Lectures

7/31/2011 - John Lennox: Spreading the Flame, Word and Spirit 1
7/31/2011 - John Lennox: Spreading the Flame, Word and Spirit 2
8/7/2011 - John Lennox: The Nature of Christ's Kingdom
8/14/2011 - John Lennox: The Nature of Christianity Worship
8/21/2011 - John Lennox: Breaking Down the Boundaries
9/25/2011 - John Lennox: From Prison to Power
4/22/2012 - Naomi Zacharias: Irregular Beauty (Job 14:7-9)
8/12/2012 - Os Guinness: Not Missing the Moment (Luke 19:41)
8/19/2012 - Os Guinness: Serving God's Purpose in Our Generation (Acts 13:32-39)
8/26/2012 - Os Guinness: No Way, Either Way (Daniel 3:8-18)

New Blog Studies

Deuteronomy 30 - God’s promise to regather Israel in the Promised Land, Has the spiritual regathering of Israel happened yet?, Is life and death a choice?, Is doing good or evil a choice? & What is God's desire for all people of Earth?

Deuteronomy 31 - Why was Moses unable to enter the Promised Land?, God would be with Israel every step of the way through their journey, Joshua to lead Israel after Moses, Did Moses write the first books of the Bible? & Why were the Priests (the Levites) charged with reading the Law to Israel every seven years? (Part 1)

Deuteronomy 31 - Joshua’s inauguration as leader of Israel, Why does God inaugurate Joshua by pointing out his weaknesses?, A song of Moses to warn Israel in a time of future apostasy, & Moses preserves the Law of God as a witness against Israel (Part 2)

Deuteronomy 32 - The Song of Moses (Part 1)

Deuteronomy 32 - The Song of Moses (Part 2)
 

Chaplain

Member
What are peoples thoughts on the following news article?

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

link
 
Not all genes have a one-to-one relationship with a phenotype. It's possible that genes change the likelihood of someone ending up with a certain sexual orientation. There are also other mechanism, like epigenetics, that have been discussed as a possible explanation. The comment "no-one is born gay" completely ignores the regulation of genes.

Also, why does it matter if sexual orientation is genetic or not? Shouldn't gay people have the same rights as the rest of us regardless?
 

frequency

Member
It doesn't matter if it's genetic or not. And to be completely honest, to question it at all really comes off as trying to justify hating other people.

And it is not like every person with same sex attraction sat there one day and thought, "You know... I think I'll try being attracted to my own gender instead. I would hate to be able to live a normal life without persecution. So I'm going to go against my genetics and try this really popular homosexuality thing."

Environmental and whatever other influences and events that shape a person while they grow are not that person's fault. If God is going to reject someone for things out of their control, then...
 

DEATH™

Member
A fetus or an infant isn't in control of their actions. Environmental factors can be as difficult to change as genes.

All these things, it's our choice. We cannot blame our sitations, our genetics or even other people for what we chose to do. There's a reason the road to the Father is a "long and narrow road".

It doesn't matter if it's genetic or not. And to be completely honest, to question it at all really comes off as trying to justify hating other people.

And it is not like every person with same sex attraction sat there one day and thought, "You know... I think I'll try being attracted to my own gender instead. I would hate to be able to live a normal life without persecution. So I'm going to go against my genetics and try this really popular homosexuality thing."

Environmental and whatever other influences and events that shape a person while they grow are not that person's fault. If God is going to reject someone for things out of their control, then...

First, please don't say it us hating on you. I know some of us christians can be a bit crossing the line (which is our own sin that we are gonna be accountable for in judgment day). But the goal is "Hate the sin, love the sinner", we all got sets of sins but we all group together to help each other to not fall, which is not only exclusive to gays but also with other sins, not exclusive to sexual ones. But on our defense, some gays make it harder for us lol

And yep, all things start small, it's already known. But again we can't excuse ourselves to God that we still did the things we did. A caught robber cannot excuse himself in the court that he got screwed by the bank, his friends let him hanging, and his family is real hungry and he became desperate. He still robbed the bank. And if you think that is harsh, just look at how Job endured horrible things that would make everyone close to slander God.

Which everything comes back to the beautiful gospel. The whole point of the old testament laws is we all sinned and can't get God favor in ourselves. When we face God , we are all accountable to our sins. In that we are all going to get judged. God can easily call it quits but no, God loves us so much that He sent his own Son to us. Not only Jesus took the punishment for us, he also understands us and our situation since He also went there, yet He went to high road despite all the screwed up situations to give example on how we should live pleasing the Lord.

TBH, the hardest part for us humans is admitting we are sinners and we sinned. Which is not only exclusive to homosexuality. It's atough pill to swallow because it requires us to humble ourselves to God. But then in hindsight, God did us a lot of favors and just humbling ourselves are least of the things to pay him back.
 

frequency

Member
DEATH™;73007686 said:
First, please don't say it us hating on you. I know some of us christians can be a bit crossing the line (which is our own sin that we are gonna be accountable for in judgment day). But the goal is "Hate the sin, love the sinner", we all got sets of sins but we all group together to help each other to not fall, which is not only exclusive to gays but also with other sins, not exclusive to sexual ones. But on our defense, some gays make it harder for us lol

And yep, all things start small, it's already known. But again we can't excuse ourselves to God that we still did the things we did. A caught robber cannot excuse himself in the court that he got screwed by the bank, his friends let him hanging, and his family is real hungry and he became desperate. He still robbed the bank. And if you think that is harsh, just look at how Job endured horrible things that would make everyone close to slander God.

Which everything comes back to the beautiful gospel. The whole point of the old testament laws is we all sinned and can't get God favor in ourselves. When we face God , we are all accountable to our sins. In that we are all going to get judged. God can easily call it quits but no, God loves us so much that He sent his own Son to us. Not only Jesus took the punishment for us, he also understands us and our situation since He also went there, yet He went to high road despite all the screwed up situations to give example on how we should live pleasing the Lord.

TBH, the hardest part for us humans is admitting we are sinners and we sinned. Which is not only exclusive to homosexuality. It's atough pill to swallow because it requires us to humble ourselves to God. But then in hindsight, God did us a lot of favors and just humbling ourselves are least of the things to pay him back.

Edit: Re-reading my post, this sounds harsh and hostile. I don't mean it to be. So please forgive me as you read this post.


1. I'm not a lesbian so I don't consider you hating me. I am just capable of empathy.
2. I'm a Christian.

As for the anti-homosexuality sentiments in Christian communities, I think it's gross. And I see zero value in saying, "See! It's a choice!" It just gives an excuse to continue hating people.

It's not our job to judge others. We love them and show them the way Jesus lived and show them why Jesus is the only way. When a person accepts Jesus as their Saviour, they can deal with the issues themselves. If, after accepting Christ, they decide that their sexual orientation is not ideal, they can deal with that then. If it means asking the Church for help or praying or whatever.

Not one of us is without sin. Homosexuality is no more damning than thinking impure thoughts about your neighbour's wife or whatever. None of us is good enough and none of us has is more worthy than another. So instead of sitting in our ivory towers hurling hate speech and threats of destruction by God's wrath at everyone who passes by, we should welcome them with loving arms. Their sin is not our business. It's between them and God. Not us and them.

Our business is spreading the Good News and introducing the lost to Jesus - the Jesus who dined with sinners.
 

DEATH™

Member
Edit: Re-reading my post, this sounds harsh and hostile. I don't mean it to be. So please forgive me as you read this post.


1. I'm not a lesbian so I don't consider you hating me. I am just capable of empathy.
2. I'm a Christian.

As for the anti-homosexuality sentiments in Christian communities, I think it's gross. And I see zero value in saying, "See! It's a choice!" It just gives an excuse to continue hating people.

It's not our job to judge others. We love them and show them the way Jesus lived and show them why Jesus is the only way. When a person accepts Jesus as their Saviour, they can deal with the issues themselves. If, after accepting Christ, they decide that their sexual orientation is not ideal, they can deal with that then. If it means asking the Church for help or praying or whatever.

Not one of us is without sin. Homosexuality is no more damning than thinking impure thoughts about your neighbour's wife or whatever. None of us is good enough and none of us has is more worthy than another. So instead of sitting in our ivory towers hurling hate speech and threats of destruction by God's wrath at everyone who passes by, we should welcome them with loving arms. Their sin is not our business. It's between them and God. Not us and them.

Our business is spreading the Good News and introducing the lost to Jesus - the Jesus who dined with sinners.

That's why I'm saying WE all the time... cause WE all have our own sets of sins. I acknowledge my own sins and I want to show people that WE as christians struggles with the same things and we totally understand their pov or at least try to go to their shoes which is God's example. I try to make sure that when I say these things, I would acknowledge their position.

But at the same time we cannot go in front of God like a macho man and say that its God's fault we are put in a situation that we are gonna sin. Which is the message I'm trying to point across. We gotta be accountable for our sins, which is also a hard thing to do, yet we gotta do it.
 
DEATH™;73020071 said:
That's why I'm saying WE all the time... cause WE all have our own sets of sins. I acknowledge my own sins and I want to show people that WE as christians struggles with the same things and we totally understand their pov or at least try to go to their shoes which is God's example. I try to make sure that when I say these things, I would acknowledge their position.

But at the same time we cannot go in front of God like a macho man and say that its God's fault we are put in a situation that we are gonna sin. Which is the message I'm trying to point across. We gotta be accountable for our sins, which is also a hard thing to do, yet we gotta do it.

I'm not even going to get into a debate about whether being gay is a sin or even being in a monogamous gay marriage/relationship is but I have to admit that I was quite offended that you used rape in the same discussion as explaining why there is no excuse for one taking part in a homosexual relationship. Even if you believe that homosexuality is sin you should know better than to conflate the two. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe someone is born gay. As a Christian you do have a responsibility to be respectful and I'm sorry, that isn't being respectful of gay people. I'm straight and even I was offended.
 

DEATH™

Member
I'm not even going to get into a debate about whether being gay is a sin or even being in a monogamous gay marriage/relationship is but I have to admit that I was quite offended that you used rape in the same discussion as explaining why there is no excuse for one taking part in a homosexual relationship. Even if you believe that homosexuality is sin you should know better than to conflate the two. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe someone is born gay. As a Christian you do have a responsibility to be respectful and I'm sorry, that isn't being respectful of gay people. I'm straight and even I was offended.

Sorry for that... I was in the fence of using that but I dunno sorry... My fault

Post edited...
 
You are still comparing a couple expressing their love with a violent crime. Personally I find considering homosexuality a sin offensive in itself.
 

DEATH™

Member
Personally I find considering homosexuality a sin offensive in itself.

Cause sadly, it is. TBH I would let anybody do their thing as long as they wanted to, which is what the homosexual community wants. They have their freedom and they chose what they seem fit.

But if we decide to please the Lord, you don't want to do what isn't pleasing to him. Even if we argue about Moses' Book of Laws and Paul's mentioning of homosexuality's validity, the fact still remains that God doesn't tolerate sexual sins, and other sins too.

Which comes back to the Word being a "sharp double edged sword". There's no way to sugarcoat the Word unless you completely warped the message. We can argue in this thread all day, but we will know it in our heart if we sinned to the Lord, especially once we go face to face with Him. Which again comes back to us humbling ourselves to the Lord and admitting we have sinned to Him. Which is a CONSTANT theme in the Bible, and even now is still happening.
 
DEATH™;73033291 said:
Cause sadly, it is. TBH I would let anybody do their thing as long as they wanted to, which is what the homosexual community wants. They have their freedom and they chose what they seem fit.

But if we decide to please the Lord, you don't want to do what isn't pleasing to him. Even if we argue about Moses' Book of Laws and Paul's mentioning of homosexuality's validity, the fact still remains that God doesn't tolerate sexual sins, and other sins too.

Which comes back to the Word being a "sharp double edged sword". There's no way to sugarcoat the Word unless you completely warped the message. We can argue in this thread all day, but we will know it in our heart if we sinned to the Lord, especially once we go face to face with Him. Which again comes back to us humbling ourselves to the Lord and admitting we have sinned to Him. Which is a CONSTANT theme in the Bible, and even now is still happening.

You say sugarcoat many say interpret. Your interpretation of a verse could be radically different than another person. You would appeal to the authority of the Holy Spirit as would the other person. Both of you claim to be Christian. Both of you confess Jesus as Lord. Both of you believe the Bible to be the inspired word of YHWH. Both of you interpret the same verse differently.

It happens in all churches, denominations, countries. There are those who believe baptism and confession happen together. There are those who believe that all one has to do is confess to be saved. There are those who are complimentarian and those who are egalitarian. Those who believe the charismatica of the Holy Spirit is still happening while others believe tongues, prophecy, etc., are no longer needed. There are those who believe that being gay is sinful while others believe there is nothing sinful about it. Some will argue that engaging in homosexual sex is sinful while others interpret the Biblical verses as applying to a non committal/marriage/monogamous relationship just like sex for heterosexuals outside of marriage.

Appealing to the authority of the H.S. or the Bible doesn't put you on higher ground than another because at the end of the day the Bible like any other book/collection of books is an interpretive work. This
 
Just curious as to ya'lls Bible reading habits mainly in terms of what medium you use. I've found myself more and more using my iPad as my main Bible and rarely pick up my physical copy anymore. Seems like I can get more out of the Olive Tree Biblereader app using the notes, cross references, etc.
 
Just curious as to ya'lls Bible reading habits mainly in terms of what medium you use. I've found myself more and more using my iPad as my main Bible and rarely pick up my physical copy anymore. Seems like I can get more out of the Olive Tree Biblereader app using the notes, cross references, etc.

I have a the Word of God Study bible from Kingsword Press.
I love it because it shows the meanings of old English words and shows the original Hebrew or Greek words underneath the verse. It was the first bible I found when I converted last year. I believe the Holy Spirit led me to it.
But I think these apps are online tools are great. Any way you can get it!
 

Chaplain

Member
New Audio Bible Studies:

(Right Click/Save As)

Marriage Bible Study

7/27/2013 - Boaz and Ruth (Ruth 1-2)

Sunday Morning (Expostional Sermon)

7/28/2013 - The Prayer Warrior Daniel (Daniel 9:1-19)

Sunday Evening (Through the Bible, Verse by Verse)

7/28/2013 - Daniel 9

Tuesday Evening Summer Series

7/23/2013 - Ephesians 4:23 (Summer Series)

Thursday Evening Bible Study (In-Depth)

7/25/2013 - Faith and Works Are One (James 2:18-20)

Series on Discouragement & Trials (problems, anxiety, stress, hopelessness, etc.)

What About Anxiety? (Matthew 6:19-34) #1
Forgotten of Man, Not of God (Genesis 41) #2
Completely Discouraged (1 Samuel 27:1) #3
Lord of Storms (Mark 4:35-41) #4
The Problem of Suffering (Job 2:7-13) #5
When We're Overwhelmed (Isaiah 59:19) #6
The Storms of Life (Matthew 8:18-27) #7
When Our World Falls Apart (Matthew 14:22-36) #8

Apologetics Lecture

7/21/2013 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Knowing and Telling Our Stories (2 Timothy 4:7)

New Blog Studies

Deuteronomy 33 - Moses Blesses the Tribes of Israel (Reuben, Judah, Levi, Benjamin, & Joseph) and short Biblical Summaries for each of the Tribes (Part 1)

Deuteronomy 33 - Moses Blesses the Tribes of Israel (Zebulun, Issachar, Gad, Dan, Naphtali, Asher, & Simeon) & the Conclusion (Part 2)

Deuteronomy 34 - Moses is shown a vision of the Promised Land, God’s last words to Moses, Moses dies, Why did God bury Moses' body? & What made Moses' legacy so unique?

Introductions to the book of Joshua

News & Articles on Christian current events:

The Bible According to Hollywood
Entertaining blasphemers
Seven Marks of a False Teacher
Pope Francis offers reduced time in Purgatory for Catholics that follow him on Twitter
A message some are afraid of
Christ: The Answer to Superstition
The Gospel According to ‘Me’
Iran's Secret Interfaith Outreach in America
Homeschooling Skyrockets in the US
Malaysia: move to legalize forced conversion of minors -- government attempts to further Islamize the law by stealth
Bono: David sang the blues and Jesus did some punk rock
The WatchWord Bible and Human Reasoning
Find from era of King David may confirm Old Testament text -- if politics don't interfere
This Little Church Had None: A Church in Search of the Truth
Questions for David James
Question: I never quite understood your objection to Calvinism [but] in the last year I have been beaten up pretty badly by many covenant theology people....
Question: I think the pre-trib [supporters] have pulled scriptures out of context to stitch their position together....If the Rapture is a secret event that is imminent, why would God say to “watch”?
 

Onikaan

Member
Just a quick thank you to GA for leading me to Ravvi's ministry.

Listen to his radio show everyday. Quality stuff, the man is sound.

Thanks!
 
any Tim Keller fans in here? Love his stuff.

I have a the Word of God Study bible from Kingsword Press.
I love it because it shows the meanings of old English words and shows the original Hebrew or Greek words underneath the verse. It was the first bible I found when I converted last year. I believe the Holy Spirit led me to it.
But I think these apps are online tools are great. Any way you can get it!

That's cool. I have an ESV study bible that I really need to use more.
 

Chaplain

Member
Just curious as to ya'lls Bible reading habits mainly in terms of what medium you use. I've found myself more and more using my iPad as my main Bible and rarely pick up my physical copy anymore. Seems like I can get more out of the Olive Tree Biblereader app using the notes, cross references, etc.

Everything is online for me (do not like physical copies anymore) as well. For my phone I use the Youversion Bible App. Online I use multiple websites for commentaries and Bibles. The best ones that I found so far are these:

Blue letter Bible
Bible Gateway
Precept Austin

Just a quick thank you to GA for leading me to Ravvi's ministry.

Listen to his radio show everyday. Quality stuff, the man is sound.

Thanks!

Your welcome bro. You might be interested in listening to some of Ravi's crew that he travels with (they all work for his ministry). I have about 83 lectures now on my soundcloud from many of the people he travels with:

Apologetics Lectures
 

Chaplain

Member
New Audio Bible Studies:

(Right Click/Save As)

Sunday Morning (Expostional Sermon)

8/4/2013 - Following Jesus, Part 1 (Hebrews 12:1-2)
8/11/2013 - Following Jesus, Part 2 (Hebrews 12:2-4)

Tuesday Evening Summer Series

8/6/2013 - Ephesians 4:24 (Summer Series)

Tuesday Evening Women's Bible Study

7/30/2013 - Passion for the Word (Selected Scriptures)

Tuesday Evening Men's Bible Study

7/30/2013 - 2 Peter 1:10-14

Bible College Series on "Church History"

Introduction and Overview: The Genesis of the Church #1
From Paul to Persecution #2
Persecution & The Growth of the Church #3
Divisions, Invasions & Heresies #4
East & West Monks & Monasteries #5
Pope, Missionaries, & Barbarians #6
The Holy Roman Empire & Eastern Church Missions #7
Power of the Pope - The Inquisition #8
Schisms, Mystics, & Wycliff #9
Foundations of the Reformation #10
Reformation Part 1 #11
Reformation Part 2 #12
Reformation Part 3 #13
The Great Missions Century #14

Random Studies & Sermons

Righteousness in the Midst of Judgement (Ezekiel 14)
The Truth About Sin (Isaiah 59:1-4)
What About Hell? (Matthew 10:26-42)
Why Each Person Must Be Born Again (John 3:1-8)
Jesus talks about Heaven (John 14:1-6)
God's Thoughts Toward Sinners (Luke 15)
Why Church? (Matthew 16:13-18, Ephesians 4:4-16, Hebrews 10:19-25, 1 Peter 2:4-10)
The Life of a Follower of Christ (Matthew 5:10-12)
Predestination & Prayer (Exodus 32:7-14)

Apologetics Lecture

7/28/2013 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Questions Jesus wants to ask us (John 2)

New Blog Studies

Joshua 1 - What does Joshua's name mean?, Why couldn't Moses take the Jews into the Promised Land?, What does it mean to be a servant?, How has God assured us victory?, How to be bold for God, What are the rules to success in life?, & What is the cure for fear and anxiety?

Joshua 2 - The Salvation of Rahab: Spies sent to the city of Jericho, Spies enter the prostitute Rahab’s house, Rahab lies to protect the spies, Is it right to lie in certain circumstances?, God saves Rahab, Rahab’s confession of faith, & Was lowering the scarlet cord a symbol for something?

Joshua 3 - Israel Camps at the Jordan River, The ark of God leads Israel, What does it mean to Sanctify Ourselves?, Where did Joshua's Wisdom come from?, God encourages Joshua, Joshua encourages Israel, What is the purpose of trials? (Part 1)

Joshua 3 - The parallels between Joshua and Jesus (Part 2) & Joshua 4 - Memorial Stones

Joshua 5 - The Typology of the Jordan River and the Passover, Why did Israel circumcise themselves at Gilgal?, Is God the only one who can heal our mental scars?, Why did God stop providing manna for Israel? & Joshua meets Jesus (the Commander of the army of the LORD)
 
Do you guys ever get to thinking "when will people begin to see that the way things are, are a result of not obeying God?" I'm going to keep praying for people. That their eyes and ears open and the heart soften. People know about Pharaoh's heart being hardened but never think that they might have the same condition. I decided to post this because of whats going on all around us. Especially the teenage boys that shot the Australian baseball player. When your eyes are open you can see that the youth are being attacked by Satan. Remember this verse?
Matthew 6
22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

To me it means things on a physical AND spiritual level. Look at the mugshot of those 3 teenagers. Look at their eyes.
 

womfalcs3

Banned
CNN explaining the trinity. No alterations made.

"According to Christian tradition, God begets a son who is somehow also Him but not Him to atone for Original Sin. He sacrifices that son though a brutal death and thus achieves humanity's salvation.

But the son, who also is God, rises from the dead. And that sacrifice redeems eternally all who accept and believe in it. Faith, not behavior, is the essential measure of salvation."


This sounds so ridiculous. First of all, a god who rises from the dead means they had to have died, removing the immortality attribute. How can a god not be immortal? Secondly, God sends a son "who is him but not him". What?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...lims-and-jews-worship-the-same-god/?hpt=hp_c2
 
CNN explaining the trinity. No alterations made.

"According to Christian tradition, God begets a son who is somehow also Him but not Him to atone for Original Sin. He sacrifices that son though a brutal death and thus achieves humanity's salvation.

But the son, who also is God, rises from the dead. And that sacrifice redeems eternally all who accept and believe in it. Faith, not behavior, is the essential measure of salvation."


This sounds so ridiculous. First of all, a god who rises from the dead means they had to have died, removing the immortality attribute. How can a god not be immortal? Secondly, God sends a son "who is him but not him". What?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...lims-and-jews-worship-the-same-god/?hpt=hp_c2

1 Corinthians 2:14

edit: sorry for such a brief reply. I think that verse speaks for itself. There's a lot of ignorance around the world. People would rather hear about Jesus through a regular author than read about Him in the bible...
 
Hey guys! I had no idea we had a Christianity |OT| on here but I saw Randolph Freelander's post mentioning he subscribed to one. I've read over the last page discussing the homosexual issue within the church but what do you guys normally talk about? Stuff you see on here?
 
We could talk about this board all day but I don't think anyone wants to condemn.
I recently picked up this documentary called Father of Lights. Anyone seen it? You can read about it and watch the trailer here.
I'm relatively new to this forum so I just try to talk about my own experiences and my opinions on things. I guess everyone else has been doing the same. The bible is always something to talk about. Also personal testimonies of how you came to God. Mine is very strange and throws off people.
 

zethren

Banned
CNN explaining the trinity. No alterations made.

"According to Christian tradition, God begets a son who is somehow also Him but not Him to atone for Original Sin. He sacrifices that son though a brutal death and thus achieves humanity's salvation.

But the son, who also is God, rises from the dead. And that sacrifice redeems eternally all who accept and believe in it. Faith, not behavior, is the essential measure of salvation."


This sounds so ridiculous. First of all, a god who rises from the dead means they had to have died, removing the immortality attribute. How can a god not be immortal? Secondly, God sends a son "who is him but not him". What?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...lims-and-jews-worship-the-same-god/?hpt=hp_c2

Jesus is God on earth. Jesus' earthly body dies, but he is God and so is not bound by the death of his earthly body's mortality. Jesus exhibited this life giving power on Lazarus as well.

And by having faith, it affects the behavior. Loving God and loving others, as commanded by Jesus, brings everything else into place.

In regards to the debate over homosexuality, no I do not believe it is a sin. God is love, and while not all love is God I do not believe that loving another human being can be sin.

Jesus represents a new covenant between God and man, and not all rules or regulations of the old testament still apply. Do you also not cut your hair?

Many modern Christians are doing it wrong.
 

Chaplain

Member
New Audio Bible Studies:

(Right Click/Save As)

Annual Women’s Luncheon Bible Study 2013

9/14/2013 - Eternity In My Heart (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

Sunday Morning (Expostional Sermon)

8/18/2013 - What are the First 69 Weeks of Daniel about? (Daniel 9:24-26)
8/25/2013 - The 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:27)
9/1/2013 - The Horror of the Great Tribulation (Daniel 12:1)
9/8/2013 - What is the Resurrection of the Just & Unjust? (Daniel 12:2)
9/15/2013 - Equip to Live Abundantly: Is it possible to live like Jesus lived? (2 Peter 1:3-4)

Sunday Evening (Through the Bible, Verse by Verse)

8/4/2013 - Fatal Mistake (2 Kings 5:1-15)
8/11/2013 - To Sin, or Not to Sin? (Genesis 39)
8/25/2013 - Daniel 11:1-35
9/1/2013 - Daniel 11:36 to 12:3
9/8/2013 - Daniel 12:4-13

Tuesday Evening Summer Series

8/20/2013 - Ephesians 4:26-27 (Summer Series)
9/3/2013 - Ephesians 4:28 (Summer Series)

Tuesday Evening Women's Bible Study

8/27/2013 - Passion for Service (Selected Scriptures)

Tuesday Evening Men's Bible Study

8/27/2013 - The Revealing (2 Peter 1)

Wednesday Evening (Verse by Verse)

3/20/2013 - Psalm 1-2
3/27/2013 - Psalm 3-4
4/10/2013 - Psalm 5-7
4/17/2013 - Psalm 8-10
4/24/2013 - Psalm 11-14
5/1/2013 - Psalm 15-17
5/8/2013 - Psalm 18
5/15/2013 - Psalm 19
6/12/2013 - Psalm 22
6/19/2013 - Psalm 23
6/26/2013 - Psalm 24
7/10/2013 - Psalm 25-26
7/24/2013 - Psalm 27
7/31/2013 - Psalm 28-30
8/7/2013 - Psalm 31-32
8/14/2013 - Psalm 33-34
8/21/2013 - Psalm 35-36
8/28/2013 - Psalm 37-38
9/4/2013 - Psalm 39-40
9/11/2013 - Psalm 41-43

Thursday Evening Bible Study (In-Depth)

8/8/2013 - Set Your Mind on Things Above (Colossians 3:1-4)
8/15/2013 - Models of Faith & Works (James 2:21-26)
8/22/2013 - So, You Want to Be a Teacher of God's Word? (James 3:1-2a)
8/29/2013 - The Master of the Tongue (James 3:2b-5a)
9/12/2013 - The Tongue is Vile (James 3:5b-6)

Series on "Apologetics to Islam"

4/19/2012 - Islam Through the Eyes of Muslims (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/19/2012 - The History and the Law of Islam (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - History of Muhammad (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - Critical Issues in Islamic Studies (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - A Look at the Quran (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/21/2012 - Everything Else to Know About Islam (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/21/2012 - Jesus of Islam vs Jesus of Christianity (Nabeel Qureshi)

"Nabeel Qureshi unpacks the culture, history, major teachings, beliefs, and attitudes of the Islamic faith. Beyond providing an incredible amount of factual information, Qureshi uses his personal conversion from Islam to Christianity in order to demonstrate tangible considerations for understanding this people group. In this seven part series, listeners can expect to learn about the deepest roots of a major modern religion."

Who is Nabeel Qureshi?

"Dr. Nabeel Qureshi is a former devout Muslim who was convinced of the truth of the Gospel through historical reasoning and a spiritual search for God. Since his conversion, he has dedicated his life to spreading the Gospel through teaching, preaching, writing, and debating. Nabeel has given lectures at universities and seminaries throughout North America, including New York University, Rutgers, the University of North Carolina, the University of Ottawa, Eastern Virginia Medical School, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Biola University. He has participated in 17 moderated, public debates around North America, Europe, and Asia. His focus is on the foundations of the Christian faith and the early history and teachings of Islam. Nabeel is a member of the speaking team at Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. He holds an MD from Eastern Virginia Medical School, an MA in Christian apologetics from Biola University, and an MA from Duke University in Religion."

Apologetics

9/15/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Who is God? (2 Chronicles 20)
9/15/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: The Uniqueness of Jesus (John 18)

Marriage Ministry Bible Studies

2/9/2013 - Valentine's Banquet (1 John 4:16)
2/23/2013 - Adam & Eve (Genesis 2-3)
3/23/2013 - David & Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11-12)
4/27/2013 - Jacob and Rachel (Selected Scriptures)
6/22/2013 - Ahab and Jezebel (Selected Scriptures)
7/27/2013 - Boaz and Ruth (Ruth 1-2)

Series on "The Holy Spirit"

The Holy Spirit is God PT.1
John 14: The Person of the Holy Spirit Pt. 2
The Fruit of the Spirit Pt. 3
Being Sealed by the Spirit Pt. 4
The Spirit at Work in the World Pt. 5
The Holy Spirit and the Believer Pt. 6
The Conforming Work of the Holy Spirit Pt. 7
The Holy Spirit Does Not Cause Division Pt. 8
The Baptism and Power of the Holy Spirit Pt. 9
Power of the Spirit Today Acts 1 Pt. 10

Random Studies & Sermons

Righteousness in the Midst of Judgement (Ezekiel 14)
How The Real Spiritual Battle Is Over Our Minds (2 Corinthians 10:1-7)
How to Discern if God's work is True or False (2 Corinthians 10:7-18)
Why is God Jealous for Us? (2 Corinthians 11:1-14)
How to Recognize Spiritual Counterfeits (2 Corinthians 11:5-15)
The Apostle Paul in God's Seminary (2 Corinthians 11:16-23)
The Distortion of God in Politics (Psalm 103)
Joy, Wisdom and Hope in the Midst of Trials (James 1:2-8)
Overcoming Barriers to Faith (John 4)
8/25/2013 - God's Grace is Sufficient (2 Corinthians 12:1-10)
8/25/2013 - How Do We Resist temptation? (Matthew 4)
9/1/2013 - Having the Heart of God (Ezekiel 22:30)
9/1/2013 - Confidence vs Insecurity (Isaiah 40:12-17)
9/8/2013 - Defending God's Ministry (2 Corinthians 12:11-13:4)
9/15/2013 - 2 Corinthians 13:5-14

Prophecy Conferences, Seminars & Studies

Interpreting Bible Prophecy (Thomas Ice)
What 2 Look 4: Discerning the Signs of the Times (Mark Hitchcock)
Prophetic Fulfillment: Literal or Spiritual? (Ed Hindson)
When Will the Believing Be Leaving? (Mark Hitchcock)
A History of the Literal Interpretation of Bible Prophecy (Thomas Ice)
Israel's Prophetic Future (Ed Hindson)
Amir Tsarfati - The Burden Against Damascus (7-14-2013)

New Blog Bible Studies

Joshua 6 - The Fall of Jericho (Part 1)
Joshua 6 - Why are the people of the city killed after the walls come down?, The impact (past, present, & future) of Rehab responding in faith to God, & Joshua curses the man who would re-fortify Jericho (Part 2)
Joshua 7 - The Lessons to learn from Israel being defeated at the Battle of Ai (Part 1)
Joshua 7 - Battle of Ai: Why was Israel defeated?, Who sinned that caused Israel's defeat?, How sin affects a persons life, How our sins will always find us, and the dangers of covetousness (Part 2)
Joshua 8 - God gives Joshua and Israel victory over Ai
Joshua 9 - The Gibeonites Deceive Joshua and Israel (Part 1)
Joshua 9 - Joshua and Israel deal with the Gibeonites deception (Part 2) & Joshua 10 - The southern kings of Canaan assemble to take out Israel (Part 1)
Joshua 10 - God miraculously fights on behalf of Israel, Why did Joshua execute of the Canaanite kings?, & What were the key (s) for Joshua and Israel winning these battles? (Part 2)
Joshua 11 - Joshua and Israel Defeat the Northern Canaanite Armies
Joshua 12 - List of the Conquered Kings, Joshua 13 - The Remaining Land; Allotments East of the Jordan, & Joshua 14 - The Western Land to be Divided
Joshua 15, 16, 17 - The Inheritance of Judah, Ephraim and Western Manasseh & Joshua 18, 19 - Inheritance of the Remaining Tribes
Joshua 20 - The Cities of Refuge & Joshua 21 - Cities Appointed for the Levites
Joshua 22 - How gossip led to a misunderstanding that almost caused a division between the tribes of Israel
Joshua 23 - Joshua’s Farewell Address:, total obedience to the Word of God, don’t make peace with the enemy & God’s faithfulness works both ways
Joshua 24 - Are all prophecies prophetic?, Is our future determined or do we have freewill? Cautions against a lightly made commitments, & The deaths of Joshua and Eleazar
 
What do you guys think about Job, who thought he was righteous in his own eyes? What about people thinking they are more righteous than their Creator?
 
I thought about Job just yesterday and came to the conclusion that I would have fallen so short of his example. I am simply not strong enough.
I would probably crack if I was in his position. Especially since Job didn't have a book like his own to read back then. The Lord's response to him makes my jaw drop every time. I really need to go back and reread Job more often so I don't fall into the same trap.
 
I would probably crack if I was in his position. Especially since Job didn't have a book like his own to read back then. The Lord's response to him makes my jaw drop every time. I really need to go back and reread Job more often so I don't fall into the same trap.
If I ever heard the Lord say "Brace yourself like a man" I would probably die from a heart attack. Job is such a comforting story though.
 

Chaplain

Member
What do you guys think about Job, who thought he was righteous in his own eyes?

It seems that Job was defending himself because his friends were trying to convict him (Job 27:6, Job 35:2-3). Yet, Job does repent when God confronts Job in the last couple of chapters.

I think we can all fall for this trap, the trap that we think we know the full story about why people suffer when only God really knows whats going on.

We can also fall in Job's situation where we feel the need to defend ourselves and pride kicks in. Pride (sin) influences us to believe that we have a right to know why bad things happen to us or that we are better than others (thus, we don't deserve what is happening to us).

What about people thinking they are more righteous than their Creator?

This is normal behavior for most people until they meet Jesus. When a person meets Jesus it usually affects people in different ways:

1. Peter is a good example of a person realizing who Jesus is by humbly confessing his true condition (his own spiritual bankruptcy) before our Lord:

"When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!” (Luke 5:8)

2. The towns people who lived with the man who was possessed show us what happens when people reject Jesus:

"People rushed out to see what had happened. A crowd soon gathered around Jesus, and they saw the man who had been freed from the demons. He was sitting at Jesus’ feet, fully clothed and perfectly sane, and they were all afraid. Then those who had seen what happened told the others how the demon-possessed man had been healed. And all the people in the region of the Gerasenes begged Jesus to go away and leave them alone, for a great wave of fear swept over them." Luke 8:35-37

Two interesting quotes about the story:

"The work of Jesus had unified the whole multitude, and they had all come out to meet with and to talk to Jesus; but it was not in a good way. “Here was a whole city at a prayer meeting, praying against their own blessing…Horrible was their prayer; but it was heard, and Jesus departed out of their coasts.” (Spurgeon)

"When people are more afraid of what Jesus will do in their lives than what Satan does in at the moment, they often push Jesus away - and He may leave asked to." (Guzik)
 
"The work of Jesus had unified the whole multitude, and they had all come out to meet with and to talk to Jesus; but it was not in a good way. “Here was a whole city at a prayer meeting, praying against their own blessing…Horrible was their prayer; but it was heard, and Jesus departed out of their coasts.” (Spurgeon)

"When people are more afraid of what Jesus will do in their lives than what Satan does in at the moment, they often push Jesus away - and He may leave asked to." (Guzik)

These quotes are interesting because I've been reading through Revelation with a mentor and two passages stuck out to me.

"Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” -Revelation 6:15-17 ESV

"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood..." -Revelation 9:20 ESV

Humanity united together in spite of God because of what is happening instead of repenting and following Him. It's so sad to think how much sin blinds us (all, including those saved) and it's incredibly convicting to not let my sin nature have any ground.
 

Chaplain

Member
Humanity united together in spite of God because of what is happening instead of repenting and following Him. It's so sad to think how much sin blinds us (all, including those saved) and it's incredibly convicting to not let my sin nature have any ground.

I think the following quote fits with both sets of scriptures you gave: “What sinners dread most is not death, but the revealed presence of God.” (Swete)

Sin is so powerful and is alive according to God's Word.

"But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes." (Romans 7:8-13 NLT)

The most amazing thing to me is that Jesus comes on the scene to prove God exists, offers a cure for the virus of sin that all mankind is infected with, and people still reject him for offering the cure that cost Him his life.

On the flip-side to all of this is that even now we can be given over to the power of sin if we choose to do evil. God is amazing that He offers each of us freewill to do good or continue to do evil.
 
Great discussion!

John 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


This world is a dwelling place for sin. It's interesting how people would rather live in darkness or actually believe there is no such thing as Light and dark. This world has definitely blinded us all and hardened our hearts towards God.

I used to think I was a good person and that Christian's were hypocrites so I didn't need to be one. When certain things happened in my life, I came to a turning point and actually read the bible for myself. That's when my eyes opened. I was in shock how long I had been living in darkness. How long I could be blind. It is a terrible condition.

It's also interesting how when you're in darkness how the light is almost repulsive to you.
It's like you've been in darkness so long that it hurts to even look at light even though it's what's best for you.

Not surprisingly, when I see those who are in darkness, I can tell what their end will be if they continue.
I am reading through Proverbs, where wisdom and understanding are said to be worth more than silver and gold. We as people, before we come to the Lord despise instruction.
Even instruction from the One who created us. I'm praying more people will come into the light. Also that Christian's, instead of just having head knowledge of the bible, have a change in their hearts as well.
 

Chaplain

Member
Sorry I haven't posted here more guys. Saw Game Analyst linked some Veritas Forum stuff. The speakers they get are fantastic. Can't say enough about them.

http://www.youtube.com/user/VeritasForum

I have over 80 apologetic lectures on my soundcloud site by Ravi's team of speakers (most of them do the Veritas Forum lectures). Here are all the lectures.

(Right Click/Save As)

Ravi Zacharias: "Need God? What if I don't?"
10/14/2012 - Michael Ramsden: Doubt - The Lost Sheep (Luke 15:1-7)
10/14/2012 - Michael Ramsden: The Beauty of Christ (Luke 7:36-50)
10/20/2012 - Ravi Zacharias: Raised to Run (Genesis 25:1)
10/21/2012 - Ravi Zacharias: Worship As A Clue To Meaning In Life (Malachi 1:1)
2/24/2013 - Michael Ramsden: Be Kind To People... In Acts Of Loving Service (Luke 10:25-37)
3/10/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Deuteronomy 8:1-5;10-14
3/10/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Hosea 1:1-9
3/28/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Lessons from History (At Iowa Prayer Breakfast)
4/14/2013 - Ravi Zacharias teaches from Matthew 4:1-11
3/19/2010 - Ravi Zacharias: Jesus among many gods
3/19/2010 - Ravi Zacharias: Jesus among many gods (Q&A)
9/30/2011 - Ravi Zacharias: Conference (Session 1)
9/30/2011 - Ravi Zacharias: Conference (Session 1 Q&A)
10/1/2011 - Ravi Zacharias & Peter Kreeft: Conference (Session 2 & 3 Q&A)
10/1/2011 - Ravi Zacharias: Conference (Session 3)
4/29/2012 - Ravi Zacharias: The Challenge to the Christian Faith
2/6/2013 - Vince Vitale: Indifferent, where is God when I suffer?
5/11/2013 - Michael Ramsden: The Fall of Man, its effects, and the solution (Genesis 3)
10/24/2009 - Ravi Zacharias: The Barriers to Evangelism
3/17/2013 - Michael Ramsden: The Reason for Hope (1 Peter 3:13-18)
5/18/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Is Jesus the only way to God?
6/9/2013 - Nathan Betts: Do Not Be Conformed (Romans 12:1-2)
2/13/2010 - John Lennox: Transforming Our Workplaces
6/29/2011 - John Lennox: The Historical Prophecy Of Isaiah
12/16/2012 - John Lennox: The Virgin Birth
10/12/2008 - John Lennox: Responding To The New Atheism (Part One)
10/12/2008 - John Lennox: Responding To The New Atheism (Part Two)
3/13/2013 - John Lennox & Michael Ramsden: Questions and Answers - Has science made God irrelevant?
3/14/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds - Is Faith a Delusion?
3/14/2013 - John Lennox & Michael Ramsden: Questions and Answers - Is Faith a delusion?
3/17/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds (looking at the beginning of the book of John)
3/17/2013 - John Lennox: Engaging Hearts and Minds (looking at the life of Daniel)
6/26/2013 - John Lennox: National Prayer Breakfast (at the House of Parliament)
6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Way - Don’t All Paths Lead to God? (Session 1)
6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Truth - That's just for you! (Session 2)
6/14/2004 - Michael Ramsden: The Life - A world of suffering, is life worth living? (Session 3)
1/5/2008 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Dangerous (Session 1)
1/5/2008 - Michael Ramsden: Divisive (Session 2)
1/5/2008 - Revd Joe Boot: Delusional (Session 3)
1/5/2008 - Question & Answer Session (Session 4)
1/7/2008 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Jihad or Tolerare Malus? (Session 1)
1/7/2008 - John Lennox: The Dawkins Delusion and the Singer Syndrome (Session 2)
1/7/2008 - Michael Ramsden: The West and the Rest (Session 3)
1/7/2008 - Michael Ramsden: God is good...some of the time? (Session 4)
2/7/2009 - Alister McGrath: Engaging the New Atheism - Science and Faith (Session 1)
2/7/2009 - John Lennox: Engaging the New Atheism - Ethics (Session 2)
2/7/2009 - Michael Ramsden: Divorce from Reality (Session 3)
2/7/2009 - Michael Green: Confidence in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Session 4)
2/7/2009 - Question & Answer Session (Session 5)
6/28/2010 - Michael Ramsden: To Be or Not to Be - The Reality of the Hope (Session 1)
6/28/2010 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Why Trust the Bible? (Session 2)
6/28/2010 - John Lennox: Reasonable Faith (Session 3)
6/28/2010 - Michael Green: Are you Trying to Convert me? (Session 4)
7/26/2010 - Michael Ramsden: Good God, Bad God? (Session 1)
7/26/2010 - Alister McGrath: Science and Faith (Session 2)
7/26/2010 - Michael Lloyd: Darwin, and the Problem of Evil (Session 3)
7/26/2010 - Amy Orr-Ewing: God of War (Session 4)
7/26/2010 - Question & Answer Panel Session (Session 5)
9/20/2010 - John Lennox: If God is so great why is there so much suffering? (Session 2)
9/20/2010 - Michael Green: Can we really trust the New Testament (Session 3)
9/20/2010 - Question & Answer Session (Session 5)
4/22/2011 - John Lennox: Doubt and Confidence - A Biblical and Scientific Perspective (Session 2)
4/22/2011 - John Lennox: Doubt and Confidence - Question and Answer Session (Session 3)
4/22/2011 - Michael Ramsden & Amy Orr-Ewring: Contemporary challenges faced by those of faith (# 4)
4/22/2011 - Tonya Walker: Cultural Doubt (Session 5)
4/22/2011 - Question & Answer Session (Session 6)
5/2/2012 - Michael Ramsden: Restrained by Religion?
5/16/2012 - Michael Ramsden: One God, Many Paths?
6/6/2012 - Tom Price: How could a good God let bad things happen?
6/10/2012 - Vince Vitale: Loving God: World of Pain
7/31/2011 - John Lennox: Spreading the Flame, Word and Spirit 1
7/31/2011 - John Lennox: Spreading the Flame, Word and Spirit 2
8/7/2011 - John Lennox: The Nature of Christ's Kingdom
8/14/2011 - John Lennox: The Nature of Christianity Worship
8/21/2011 - John Lennox: Breaking Down the Boundaries
9/25/2011 - John Lennox: From Prison to Power
4/22/2012 - Naomi Zacharias: Irregular Beauty (Job 14:7-9)
8/12/2012 - Os Guinness: Not Missing the Moment (Luke 19:41)
8/19/2012 - Os Guinness: Serving God's Purpose in Our Generation (Acts 13:32-39)
8/26/2012 - Os Guinness: No Way, Either Way (Daniel 3:8-18)
7/21/2013 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Knowing and Telling Our Stories (2 Timothy 4:7)
7/28/2013 - Amy Orr-Ewing: Questions Jesus wants to ask us (John 2)
4/19/2012 - Islam Through the Eyes of Muslims (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/19/2012 - The History and the Law of Islam (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - History of Muhammad (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - Critical Issues in Islamic Studies (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/20/2012 - A Look at the Quran (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/21/2012 - Everything Else to Know About Islam (Nabeel Qureshi)
4/21/2012 - Jesus of Islam vs Jesus of Christianity (Nabeel Qureshi)
9/15/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: Who is God? (2 Chronicles 20)
9/15/2013 - Ravi Zacharias: The Uniqueness of Jesus (John 18)
 
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