Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Oh wow. That is indisputable. 110% murder. He deserves, at least, life in prison.
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Cincinnati braces for footage release in campus cop killing (Up: Murder charge)
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This is just not true. How can anyone credibly argue that someone driving away was an imminent danger to the public that justified killing someone? When he was pulled over because he didn't have a front license plate? That's just stupid and I can't even believe someone would argue otherwise.
It's important that people understand that even though UC PD are technically a private force they are state sanctioned and trained and should be no different than any other PD in Ohio.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
No one in this thread has defended the cops actions. It's pretty clear he murdered someone.
Doesn't mean the debate over the more trivial elements of what happens in the video is completely invalid.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
The hivemind is real.
I can understand why people are sensitive to this, since it's taken as victim blaming. But some people want to known what happened from A to Z instead of just A and Z.
Who would say that it justifies murder? That's not the connection.
The man died. It's possible that if he had gotten out of the car he wouldn't have been killed. Those are facts.
It's also a fact that he shouldn't have been killed.
What happened during the struggle?
The officer asks him to step out and to take his seat-belt off, the guy says but I didn't even do anything...touches something near the steering wheel I think it's the keys, perhaps to start up, the officer reaches in. I assume the guy tries to push him out and that's why the camera is swinging so much, then the officer shoots him in the head after very quickly saying stop, stop, it basically wasn't even a warning.
The officer asks him to step out and to take his seat-belt off, the guy says but I didn't even do anything...touches something near the steering wheel I think it's the keys, perhaps to start up, the officer reaches in. I assume the guy tries to push him out and that's why the camera is swinging so much, then the officer shoots him in the head after very quickly saying stop, stop, it basically wasn't even a warning.
Miles Quaritch
Member
The US is a fucked up place. Some schools over there even have cops roaming the halls and are called on when a student is acting out.
I don't want to live in a world where it's totally ok if a cop shoots you because they think letting you drive away is imminent danger to the public on the same level as pulling a gun with intent to kill.
onadesertedisland
Member
The video removes doubt that the officer's original claims had validity and cements the reality that this was not a legitimate use of deadly force. The focus on minute details derails the narrative to focus on what-ifs that might paint the victim in a negative light, lessening the perpetrator's culpability.
Beer Monkey
Member
I can speak from firsthand experience that at one time (not sure about now) part of the job of University of Cincinnati police officers was to talk students out of filing charges when physically or sexually assaulted.
Universities want low crime stats as to not scare away prospective students. This creates an inherent conflict of interest.
Even if this were relevant, this isn't the case for manual transmission cars, if this was one.
I think I know what you're trying to say, but...
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Yeah, sounds fucking insane.
?
It's a fact that it's possible for my power to go out today. Not likely, but it is possible.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
Fucking piece of shit cop. Glad he's getting charged. Give him life see how long he lasts behind bars. Fucking murderer.
If the cop believed so strongly in what you said, he wouldn't have felt the need to lie about what actually happened.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Some people are arguing the fact he was a campus cop made it easier to make the murder charge. Because they're different, when they're the same thing as local/state police in many cases.
The second part will likely be used in the cop's defense in court, so it's not that shocking it would be brought up, discussed, and dissected.
And a person died needlessly. That's horrible and should not have happened, happens too often, and happens disproportionately to black people at the hands of police. I'm not sure what there is to debate on that.
Many people will be discussing many different things here.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
So why have a thread at all?
It's a chaotic video because the camera is attached to a moving body. People are discussing what happened.
I watched the cop walk up to the car.
People are pulled over for stupid crap all the time only for the police to find something more heinous going on. Right?
A drunk driver is a threat to public safety. Right?
Quick search gave: http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/140#cont142
Now I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm in the "murder" camp. But I am saying that the car not being in park could be relevant. We'll see.
Absolutely. If this were true he would have said "He was drunk and driving away" not "My arm was caught, and he tried to run me over." But that won't stop him from using it as a defense if his lawyers think it could work.
After several rewatches:
I can't tell at all what is actually being said, but both parties sound calm up until:
00:52 he hasn't drawn his weapon (you can see his open hand on the car).
00:53 "let's take your seatbelt off(?") cop reaches in. Struggle, boom.
The only possible defense I could see is:
When the cop reached in (to either turn off the car or remove the seatbelt), the victim grabbed his arm. Cop drew his weapon because the car was still in drive, so he feared the victim was going to drag him. Maybe he only drew to threaten, but it went off in the struggle?
Not saying that's what happened or that the cop was right in drawing his weapon, just that that's the only possible defense I could see for his actions. I definitely don't think he stopped the guy with the intention of shooting him.
I can't tell at all what is actually being said, but both parties sound calm up until:
00:52 he hasn't drawn his weapon (you can see his open hand on the car).
00:53 "let's take your seatbelt off(?") cop reaches in. Struggle, boom.
The only possible defense I could see is:
When the cop reached in (to either turn off the car or remove the seatbelt), the victim grabbed his arm. Cop drew his weapon because the car was still in drive, so he feared the victim was going to drag him. Maybe he only drew to threaten, but it went off in the struggle?
Not saying that's what happened or that the cop was right in drawing his weapon, just that that's the only possible defense I could see for his actions. I definitely don't think he stopped the guy with the intention of shooting him.
Agree.
PandaShake
Member
Couldn't watch the video. I read a text description instead. My stomach is churning. Fucking disgusting.
Well, it goes pretty fast so you don't actually see the shot, just hear it really. I was nervous to watch too, and it is pretty disturbing, at least not graphic.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Acting out? Are you talking about middle/high schools? Yeah, police response on secondary schools is a problem. But university campuses make sense given their population, physical size, and complexity.
Now if you want to debate if it should just be another precinct of a local police force rather than a campus police department, then that's a different thing.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This. People forget the police in the US started as the slave catching patrol. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is how a lot of this stuff goes down.
When it comes down to it, it usually ends up being the word of a police officer vs thug and we all know who wins that battle.
Halcyon
Member
Yea I agree. Some people here sometimes think that the threads on neogaf actually resolve issues.
Everyone basically instinctually goes 'oi that's pretty terrible' in our brains but coming here and posting 'oi that's terrible' and leaving it at that is boring.
So here you have people talking about it all. Who cares if that doesn't lead towards the forum collectively solving why cops keeps shooting people.
Mass Effect
Member
The rate of escalation in that footage is insane. It goes from zero to death in less than 2 seconds.
This is a prime example of why body cams need to be mandatory nationwide. If not for them, they probably would have been successful in their coverup.
This is a prime example of why body cams need to be mandatory nationwide. If not for them, they probably would have been successful in their coverup.
Sorry - I didn't mean to single you out on it as almost everybody that uses the english language does it and really it's irrelevant to the thread, but I'll explain. Facts are things that have happened or already exist. Otherwise you could say something like "I know for a fact that it is possible that Obama is going to run for a 3rd term". Apologies for taking it a bit off topic.
American Eskimo
Banned
Exactly.
He was pulled over for not having a front license plate, which is how cars in many states are sold.
He wasnt an armed and dangerous felon escaping from a bank heist or something.
Even if he did flee, the cop should get in his car, follow, and call for backup.
I'd like to see the dashcam. It would give a better perspective of what the officer was doing position wise when he fired.
Looks to me like when the officer asked him to step out, the guy was thinking no way, reached for the keys - possibly started the car. The officer catches on and tries to stop him, the guy tries to get him off with the officer replying stop, stop, and within a second or two the officer shoots him in the head even though his hands were being used to push away the officer and so it's likely that the officer knows there was no weapon, but before he can get away he shoots him in the head.
I imagine he drew the weapon to control the situation. But he went for the kill instead. I'm not sure if the guy was holding his hand, I mean it's obvious there's no other weapon - one hand on the wheel, the other fighting off (or holding onto?) the officer...
Wish the cameras weren't so blurry. What good is that if they aren't useful during movement?
Mammoth Jones
Member
All he had to do was run his name and realize he forgot is license. Cops have wide discretion to do that or just arrest you for not having it. But at no point was shooting him in the head justified.
Agreed. One of my buddies is a campus cop. He get the same training and same glock and right to make arrests as any other cop.
SliceSabre
Banned
It's a factor. It's not the only factor thankfully. IANAL, I just see this being a big point in the defense.
I know. I don't like it either.
ISWThunder
Member
That's what struck me, too. There was like 15 seconds left in the video and all I could think was, "how can it possibly go from this to murder in the time that's left?"
A ton! There'd be no murder charge at all without it.
Gif of shooting
Slowed down gif is excellent.
Three other officers lied or distorted the facts in this incident to help cover it up. Charge them as a group.
Tertullian
Member
Wow, that's crazy. That was some straight-up murder.
Man, Pennsylvania v. Mimms was an awful SCOTUS decision. Maybe if cops had to have a reasonable basis for suspecting that a man is a threat before ordering him out of his car, they wouldn't feel entitled to try and yank people out of their cars and kill them or get them killed in the process.
Not that, you know, the fault isn't entirely with the murderer in this case. I just mean that PA v. Mimms is one small feature of our justice system that contributes to this stuff.
Man, Pennsylvania v. Mimms was an awful SCOTUS decision. Maybe if cops had to have a reasonable basis for suspecting that a man is a threat before ordering him out of his car, they wouldn't feel entitled to try and yank people out of their cars and kill them or get them killed in the process.
Not that, you know, the fault isn't entirely with the murderer in this case. I just mean that PA v. Mimms is one small feature of our justice system that contributes to this stuff.
Thing is though you can't tell if the guy is holding onto his arm in attempt to drag the officer (which seems dumb), or trying to push him off to get away - but why didn't the car move till later?
Perhaps he didn't want to drive while the officer was still in the car...
Fun fact: same guy who said Sandra Bland would be alive if she wasn't so arrogant.
Veritigo_X
Member
Did the cop not think anyone would check it or did he forget it was on? His story was a complete fabrication.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Didn't he already have a bullet in his head when the car started moving?
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