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[Skyzard]

Are you kidding me man???

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc

This video is a lot clearer

Wow...so yeah that's just murder. He reached for the ignition. Was trying to push him off and the officer didn't want him to leave so he killed him.

All the stuff about the bottle instead of the license...the officer specifically asks what's that bottle on the floor, and the guy hands him a bottle that looks full:

 

[dave is ok]

You do realize the car started moving after he killed the guy, right?

It's impossible to tell based on the footage released.

That being said, the worst case scenario is the car was moving at sub 5mph speeds for all of two seconds before the officer shot him. Completely indefensible, whether the car was moving or stopped.

 

[BobTheFork]

I hadn't read about the way three officers lied to try and help cover this up. I do hope we see charges for them, rather than paid vacations.

To me, that's accessory to murder.

 

[heyf00L]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc

This video is a lot clearer

I could easily be wrong about the dialog, but going by that video's time:

0:39 cop: "What's the bottle on the floor there?"
0:41 DeBose: "Oh, that's a bottle of air freshener."
0:42 cop: "Bottle of what?"
0:43 Debose passes out bottle: "You can smell it. It's air freshener. It's not a liquor or anything."

1:47 cop: "Well until I can figure out if you have a lisence or not, go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me."
1:50 cop opens door, Debose reaches for ignition: "I didn't even do nothing, what are you--"
1:51 DeBose closes door, cop: "Go ahead and take your seatbelt off."
1:52 DeBose starts car then reaches for shifter with right hand
1:53 cop reaches into car and grabs at wheel/keys: "Stop. Stop!", DeBose reaches for cop's arm with left hand
1:54 cop grabs the seatbelt and pulls gun, DeBose sees gun and cringes away, both hands in the air
1:55 cop shoots DeBose

Now this is difficult to tell, but it seems to me the officer shoots before the car moves, but the car moving is what knocks the officer down. Look at the distance to the cop car behind them to tell. It looks the same distance at 1:54 before shot, 1:55 during shot, but further away at 1:56 when the cop falls. That's what I see.

 

[abuC]

He lied on the report, if it weren't for the body cam this would be swept under the rug. Now ask yourself just how many cops out there have lied on their reports.

 

[SimpleGamer]

Fuck, if you slow it down to .25 it looks like he even pins him down with his left arm to shoot him.

Fucking Christ, and my blood is already boiling.

 

[RulkezX]

It's fucking incredible that whether the vehicle moved or not is even a discussion. He turned on the ignition and the cop shot him in the head.

Even if the vehicle did move there is no justification for the use of lethal force.

 

[Ke0]

Yeah, I didn't realize I was talking to a child.

Ah cool, no worries man. Most people don't know when they're talking to themselves until it's pointed out to them. Glad to see we came to an understanding though, that's the important part. You're an okay guy Squalor. Anyways if you want to continue whatever this is. That's what PMs are for mate.

I need to see the receipts.

Anyways, the cop was a fool to think that he was going to get away with it considering the body cam footage.

I don't think the officer was even thinking about the body camera. Good thing he wasn't, I can't even begin the imagine the outrage that would occur if the police released some statement like "The body cam video was "accidentally" erased" or something.

At this point I think bodycams should be a thing nationwide. IIRC wasn't Obama pushing for just that? Hopefully he can get that passed before his term ends.

If Americans have no problem paying for a $1.58t jet, then they should welcome paying for bodycams, something that will actually keep them safe as opposed to a non production jet 98% of the population will never actually see.

 

[Arcia]

All the stuff about the bottle instead of the license...the officer specifically asks what's that bottle on the floor, and the guy hands him a bottle that looks full:

Christ, that bottle IS full, probably never even opened. And people were trying to say that Dubose was drunk and waving a beer can around :/

 

[GK86]

Christ, that bottle IS full, probably never even opened. And people were trying to say that Dubose was drunk and waving a beer can around :/

Are you surprised? People always look for something to point to for the reason the person was beaten/shot. If they can find something, they will dig into the person's past. If that fails, then they look into family members.

 

[Squalor]

It's fucking incredible that whether the vehicle moved or not is even a discussion. He turned on the ignition and the cop shot him in the head.

Even if the vehicle did move there is no justification for the use of lethal force.

Yeah, the cop lied on his report, multiple times might I add. And he shot a seated, unarmed man in the head.

There is no discussion on our end.

*Childish behavior*

Your being obstinate? No thank you. You misinterpreted what I said because you were looking for a fight for some reason, so you got angry. It's cool. There are a lot of people like you on the Internet.

 

[heyf00L]

It's fucking incredible that whether the vehicle moved or not is even a discussion. He turned on the ignition and the cop shot him in the head.

Even if the vehicle did move there is no justification for the use of lethal force.

It could be relevant, but I'll explain why it's not. What I see is that the cop reaches in, and DuBose grabs the cop's arm. Now if he held on and started to drive, I could understand shooting. But at the time of the shot DuBose has clearly let go, and I don't see any evidence that the car had started to move anyway.

 

[Karkador]

Christ, that bottle IS full, probably never even opened. And people were trying to say that Dubose was drunk and waving a beer can around :/

Yeah, it looks unopened to me

 

[abuC]

It's fucking incredible that whether the vehicle moved or not is even a discussion. He turned on the ignition and the cop shot him in the head.

Even if the vehicle did move there is no justification for the use of lethal force.

When the victim is black, people will reach for whatever bullshit they can to justify the killing.

 

[heyf00L]

Yeah, it looks unopened to me

He says it's air freshener, or am I hearing things?

 

[Arcia]

Are you surprised? People always look for something to point to for the reason the person was beaten/shot. If they can find something, they will dig into the person's past. If that fails, then they look into family members.

Oh I'm not surprised, just voicing my disappointment.

 

[Ke0]

Are you surprised? People always look for something to point to for the reason the person was beaten/shot. If they can find something, they will dig into the person's past. If that fails, then they look into family members.

Yup.

It's hard to tell but I honestly don't even think he's moving when he shoots him. If he was moving it wasn't fast that's for sure

Honestly doesn't look like the car moved at all until after he was shot. Seems like Dubose tried to get out of there after being shot, but then crashed because he died.

 

[johnny956]

It's hard to tell but I honestly don't even think he's moving when he shoots him. If he was moving it wasn't fast that's for sure

 

[Earendil]

The only possible defense I could see is:
When the cop reached in (to either turn off the car or remove the seatbelt), the victim grabbed his arm. Cop drew his weapon because the car was still in drive, so he feared the victim was going to drag him. Maybe he only drew to threaten, but it went off in the struggle?

I'm not sure. It looks to me that he put the gun into the car and fired. And the victim never laid a hand on his right arm. Based on that, I would certainly agree it was an intentional action. However, I could only handle watching the video once, so I may be wrong.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

He lied on the report, if it weren't for the body cam this would be swept under the rug. Now ask yourself just how many cops out there have lied on their reports.

Yup.

Imagine back in the 80's during Reagan's War on Drugs.

 

[Grym]

Christ, that bottle IS full, probably never even opened. And people were trying to say that Dubose was drunk and waving a beer can around :/

Definitely full. When the cop brings it closest to himself before setting it down, it looks like the seal is unbroken too. Definitely can't tell for certain but it looks that way to me. I wonder if the (probably) broken bottle is in evidence and whether the seal is intact or was opened (if so opened before? or after the fact by the cop?)

 

[Skyzard]

Don't think it was that long ago that they killed a man for running away and tried to cover it up:

Nothing changed that was effective except for the cameras.

 

[ReAxion]

It's fucking incredible that whether the vehicle moved or not is even a discussion. He turned on the ignition and the cop shot him in the head.

Even if the vehicle did move there is no justification for the use of lethal force.

I believe we're all in agreement this was totally unjustified. We're trying to pin this down as yet another lie by the cops.

 

[onadesertedisland]

A search for Barton Gin only brings up clear liquors. So I would tend to believe him that the bottle did not contain gin or was only gin.

 

[GK86]

Definitely full. If you slow down the video, when the cop brings it closest to himself before setting it down, it looks like the seal is unbroken too. Definitely can't tell for certain but it looks that way to me. I wonder if the (probably) broken bottle is in evidence and whether the seal is intact or was opened (if so opened before? or after the fact by the cop?)

He said it was a bottle of air freshener.

 

[HariKari]

Don't think it was that long ago that they killed a man for running away and tried to cover it up.

Don't some countries automatically charge the officer, then use evidence to clear them of wrongdoing? That would discourage covering up the cameras, as they'd be the only way to be exonerated. Flies in the face of the current court system, but it would be interesting.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Don't think it was that long ago that they killed a man for running away and tried to cover it up:

Nothing changed that was effective except for the cameras.

Yeah, I remember that video was pretty chilling.
Starting to think all cops should be required to have body cams on. The crooked ones ruin it for the ones actually trying to do good, but that happens. That is why schools have metal detectors and such.

 

[Gattsu25]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc

This video is a lot clearer

Will watch this when I get home

 

[Grym]

He said it was a bottle of air freshener.

Yeah he did. That doesn't make sense to me.

So it was an opened/empty bottle of gin with some sort of minty liquid in it instead or something? How does it freshen anything when it is a closed bottle on the car floor? Or I'm not aware that most people keep their Lysol in old Gin bottles?

 

[Malvolio]

We clearly can't have people driving our streets sans front tags. Think of all the lives this courageous young officer has saved.

 

[Squalor]

Don't some countries automatically charge the officer, then use evidence to clear them of wrongdoing? That would discourage covering up the cameras, as they'd be the only way to be exonerated. Flies in the face of the current court system, but it would be interesting.

Nothing like that will ever happen in this country. They just get paid vacation until, most of the time, "proven" innocent.

The union is too strong.

 

[RulkezX]

It could be relevant, but I'll explain why it's not. What I see is that the cop reaches in, and DuBose grabs the cop's arm. Now if he held on and started to drive, I could understand shooting. But at the time of the shot DuBose has clearly let go, and I don't see any evidence that the car had started to move anyway.

When the victim is black, people will reach for whatever bullshit they can to justify the killing.

I'm not from the US (Scottish) so generally stay away from these threads , and I don't want to push the "American cops suck" narrative when my view point is biased by what I read online , but I just can't grasp how this situation goes from A > Death.

I guess I just can't grasp how the officers thought process goes " shit he's started the car , bang"

 

[Ke0]

Don't some countries automatically charge the officer, then use evidence to clear them of wrongdoing? That would discourage covering up the cameras, as they'd be the only way to be exonerated. Flies in the face of the current court system, but it would be interesting.

Would be an interesting experiment to see if it was effective. Keep it in place for like 5-10 years and track if the number deaths decreases or not.

 

[dave is ok]

It could be an empty bottle of gin that was peed into.

 

[onadesertedisland]

 

[Arcia]

He said it was a bottle of air freshener.

Yeah he did. That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he filled the empty gin bottle with cleaner?

Not that any of this is all that relevant in justifying lethal force. This was only ever brought up as an attempt to make Dubose look bad.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I could easily be wrong about the dialog, but going by that video's time:

0:39 cop: "What's the bottle on the floor there?"
0:41 DeBose: "Oh, that's a bottle of air freshener."
0:42 cop: "Bottle of what?"
0:43 Debose passes out bottle: "You can smell it. It's air freshener. It's not a liquor or anything."

1:47 cop: "Well until I can figure out if you have a lisence or not, go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me."
1:50 cop opens door, Debose reaches for ignition: "I didn't even do nothing, what are you--"
1:51 DeBose closes door, cop: "Go ahead and take your seatbelt off."
1:52 DeBose starts car then reaches for shifter with right hand
1:53 cop reaches into car and grabs at wheel/keys: "Stop. Stop!", DeBose reaches for cop's arm with left hand
1:54 cop grabs the seatbelt and pulls gun, DeBose sees gun and cringes away, both hands in the air
1:55 cop shoots DeBose

Now this is difficult to tell, but it seems to me the officer shoots before the car moves, but the car moving is what knocks the officer down. Look at the distance to the cop car behind them to tell. It looks the same distance at 1:54 before shot, 1:55 during shot, but further away at 1:56 when the cop falls. That's what I see.

You might be wrong on Freshener its hard to hear, but i'd debate that DeBose tried to reach for the gun at all, i mean a left handed grab for a gun on the cop?, it seems the cop had it drawn already, or as usual hand on the grip with it ready to draw

*Looks to me the cop leans in to get the keys,
*DeBose does move but i'd suspect he goes to push the officer away (debatable if he *connects),
*at which point the cop raises the gun/upholsterer the gun fully and raised it
*DeBose recoils in terror (he was stopped for a flimsy reason and now he's a gun in his face) ARMS RAISED
*Cop shoots him point blank in the face
*DeBose's lifeless body dead weights down the accelerator and the car careers off uncontrollably

Whether that was an air freshener or just an unopened gin container is a bit odd, but the officer does ask to see it, he didn't just brandish it in his face like the cops atempt at mitigating the circumstances in that original bogus report

Murder charge is so justified, best he could hope for is Manslaughter if he can prove he accidentally pulled that trigger, but DeBose's hands were up, he was surrendered, iits an uphill struggle to claim anything

 

[Plasmid]

Sad and unnecessary. Over a no front plate? Fuck man. The cop definitely over reacted.

 

[heyf00L]

Yeah he did. That doesn't make sense to me.

So it was an opened/empty bottle of gin with some sort of minty liquid in it instead or something? How does it freshen anything when it is a closed bottle on the car floor?

This will probably be cleared up since the bottle will be evidence.

 

[TheSlySoul]

It could be an empty bottle of gin that was peed into.

Google search shows gin as clear, so you are probably right.
That is a bottle of piss...

 

[Arcia]

Google search shows gin as clear, so you are probably right.
That is a bottle of piss...

Well, maybe he said it was air freshener because he was embarrassed...

 

[Malvolio]

Any discussion about the bottle is missing the point. He could have been on his sixth bottle of the day. There still is no justification for pulling his firearm let along pulling the trigger.

 

[Grym]

Maybe he filled the empty gin bottle with cleaner?

Not that any of this is all that relevant in justifying lethal force. This was only ever brought up as an attempt to make Dubose look bad.

This will probably be cleared up since the bottle will be evidence.

yea. it really isn't relevant in regard to using force. Just a weird part of the video to me that I'd like to understand.

 

[Starviper]

Watched the high quality video. From what I gather:

Cop pulled him over for the plate. Guy has plate in the passengers compartment, but not on the front.

(At this point in time, guy turns the car off.)

Cop asks about the bottle on the floor. Guy says it's not liquor, it is air freshener, hands it to the cop to smell. It is in a gin bottle. Cop does not open it; places it on top of the car.

Cop asks for license. Guy says he does not have it. Says cop can run his name and check.

Cop asks the guy to take his seatbelt off and step out of the car; places hand on the door frame. Guy freaks out and turns on the ignition, says he didn't do anything.

Cop grabs the guys arm, pulls out pistol and shoots him in the head.

Guy's foot slams the pedal, car goes out of control and smashes into something down the road. Car continues to rev after crash.

--

There is definitely something up with the guy being stopped; I think he may have had no license or it was actually suspended.

I am unsure why the cop didn't step away from the vehicle and chase. The use of deadly force was not needed.

 

[heyf00L]

You might be wrong on Freshener its hard to hear, but i'd debate that DeBose tried to reach for the gun at all, i mean a left handed grab for a gun on the cop?, it seems the cop had it drawn already, or as usual hand on the grip with it ready to draw

*Looks to me the cop leans in to get the keys,
*DeBose does move but i'd suspect he goes to push the officer away (debatable if he *connects),
*at which point the cop raises the gun/upholsterer the gun fully and raised it
*DeBose recoils in terror (he was stopped for a flimsy reason and now he's a gun in his face) ARMS RAISED
*Cop shoots him point blank in the face
*DeBose's lifeless body dead weights down the accelerator and the car careers off uncontrollably

Whether that was an air freshener or just an unopened gin container is a bit odd, but the officer does ask to see it, he didn't just brandish it in his face like the cops atempt at mitigating the circumstances in that original bogus report

Murder charge is so justified, best he could hope for is Manslaughter if he can prove he accidentally pulled that trigger, but DeBose's hands were up, he was surrendered, iits an uphill struggle to claim anything

DeBose doesn't reach for the gun; I didn't say he did. At 1:54 he reaches for and grabs the cop's left arm which is inside the car. But by 1:55 he's let go and has both hands up.

 

[Curufinwe]

Thank god these body cameras are becoming mandatory and everyone has a phone camera with them. God only knows how many other innocent citizens have been murdered by cops in the past only for the cop to make up some bullshit story that was plausible enough to get them off.

 

[Skyzard]

Yup, air freshner like he says...probably, He says he can smell it and he passes it to the officer when he specifically asks for the bottle, not the license at that time. Officer brings it closer, says okay and puts it on the car.

Tries to get him to leave the vehicle for not having a front plate, guy thinks about getting away and starts the car, officers tries to hold him down, then kills him.

Yeah, I remember that video was pretty chilling.
Starting to think all cops should be required to have body cams on. The crooked ones ruin it for the ones actually trying to do good, but that happens. That is why schools have metal detectors and such.

I think so too...

Don't some countries automatically charge the officer, then use evidence to clear them of wrongdoing? That would discourage covering up the cameras, as they'd be the only way to be exonerated. Flies in the face of the current court system, but it would be interesting.

Wow, I'd hate to be a police officer there

 

[norm9]

This one is going to be tough to defend.

 

[gutterboy44]

Seeing as this was a one off traffic stop, not some suspect in a murder case or some shit, I don't care if the guy was piss drunk, handed the cop a cup full of gin, screamed, "I have no license you fucking pig, I'm out of here!" and jammed on the accelerator. At no point, unless the cop was standing in front of the car, should pulling a gun and shooting the person in the face enter the equation. Period. Not only are all of the above scenarios disproved or only slightly plausible based on the video, none of them even if 100% true justify what the officer did. Have people forgot that you are allowed to commit a crime in the US without being executed on site? This is why we have courts. Police aren't Judge Dredd.

 

[heyf00L]

I'm not from the US (Scottish) so generally stay away from these threads , and I don't want to push the "American cops suck" narrative when my view point is biased by what I read online , but I just can't grasp how this situation goes from A > Death.

I guess I just can't grasp how the officers thought process goes " shit he's started the car , bang"

Well I'd say most cops are pretty good. And cops are allowed to defend themselves of course. But the position attracts people who get a rush off power. And resisting makes them mad. And it's really difficult to prosecute cops. Then there's racism. You mix all that up, and you get what happened here.