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Circana (NPD) Hardware Sales for 2022 - NSW 5830k | PS5 5660k | XBS 4480k

Not sure what the arguing is about.

Series X + Series S + Series S 1TB vs PS5 + PS5 DE

That's basically what's available for consumers to buy at this moment. Sales are not going to be broken down between all those different models. If the PS5 outsells the Series that means it sells more than all the systems they offer to consumers. It's as simple as that.

Not it isn't

That's like saying that a RTX 4090 targets the same customers of a 4060 because they are both NVIDIA Ada Lovelace cards....

You compare in the same spec and price segment

PS5 vs Series X

That's apples to apples


Series S was made by MS to boost sales combining both consoles.

They should have killed Sony in 2022 as PS5 hasn't been available widely until the last quarter....

And instead they finished beaten also by Nintendo with a 2017 (portable) hardware
 
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Woopah

Member
I'll agree that they went with different strategies to hit lower price points. Microsoft went with a much weaker system while Sony simply removed the disk drive.
Yes I think MS' strategy was to undercut Sony with the Series S model, and they weren't expecting the PS5 Digital model to be so competitively priced.
 

KU_

Member
Nintendo stopped competing with Sony in 2006 when they launched the Wii (aka GameCube 2.0)

Nobody has only the Switch as their console. Most games don't even get ported to it.

It's a "companion console" for Nintendo exclusives
Nintendo has rode this mentality all the way to the bank. At the end of the day, they’re competing for your dollars and mindshare. Doesn’t matter how they accomplish that so long as they do.
 

Woopah

Member
Not it isn't

That's like saying that a RTX 4090 targets the same customers of a 4060 because they are both NVIDIA Ada cards....

You compare in the same spec and price segment

PS5 vs Series X

That's apple to apple


Series S was made by MS to boost sales combining both consoles.

They should have killed Sony in 2022 as PS5 hasn't been available widely until the last quarter....

And they finished beaten also by Nintendo with a 2017 (portable) hardware
Who is "you" in this situation? Because spec and price have never been a factor in the comparisons/tracking Circana does. They compared dedicated video game devices.

As you yourself point out they are comparing Xbox Series to Switch, which have very different specs.
 
As you yourself point out they are comparing Xbox Series to Switch, which have very different specs.

I wasn't: I was just pointing out that Xbox with 2 consoles got beaten in sales by a VERY old portable console

But I don't consider Xbox competing with Nintendo, just like Sony isn't...

Still, MS should have dominated this (skewed) chart and somehow they finished LAST, once again.

And some people here are calling it a success :D
 
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Robb

Gold Member
But I don't consider Xbox competing with Nintendo, just like Sony isn't...
How could you not? Do you think Sony doesn’t care they’re being obliterated in Japan? Had Nintendo not been a thing Sony would be crushing it over there as Xbox is pretty much nonexistent.
 

Woopah

Member
I wasn't: I was just pointing out that Xbox with 2 consoles got beaten in sales by a VERY old portable console

But I don't consider Xbox competing with Nintendo, just like Sony isn't...

Still, MS should have dominated this (skewed) chart and somehow they finished LAST, once again.

And some people here are calling it a success :D
It's a fair chart comparing the different competing platforms, similar to how pretty much every other professional tracker does it. It's not skewed.

I agree with you that MS had a great opportunity to come 2nd in the US in 2022 (maybe even first) but they squandered it with a lack of exclusive content and so came 3rd behind Nintendo and Sony.
 
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Deerock71

Member
Excited Donkey Kong GIF

So many of you love to shit on the Switch, but the Switch sure loves flinging it back. 😆
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I seriously wonder if Microsoft can get away with not putting out a rival to the PS5 Pro.

If the PS5 Pro is uniquely the best console to play games on and the PS5's price point is the same or cheaper than the XSX, Microsoft is going to be in a difficult sandwich, not aided by people's lack of interest in the XSS.

As more people buy 4KTVs (over 60% of US smart tv owners have a 4KTV), the XSS is less and less appealing. Given the cost of games the price advantage of the XSS is almost nonexistent, especially if you look at the carbon black XSS.

50 dollars more and you can get a PS5 Digital. That's not even the price difference of one game and you get a much better console...
 

Luigi Mario

Member
Xbox One v Xbox Series

2013: XBO - 1.82 million 2020: XBS - 1.49 million
2014: XBO - 4.37 million 2021: XBS - 3.73 million
2015: XBO - 4.93 million 2022: XBS - 4.48 million
2016: XBO - 4.73 million 2023: XBS - ?????

For 2023 compared to 2016 the PS5 will be massively up on PS4's 5.10 million and XBS will struggle to match XBO's 4.73 million.
This paints a clearer picture of the hardware situation and as many have already speculated, Xbox Series numbers are indeed down compared to the Xbox One in their most important market.
 
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Yes I think MS' strategy was to undercut Sony with the Series S model, and they weren't expecting the PS5 Digital model to be so competitively priced.

The new Series S model is kind of strange especially when compared to the PS5 DE. Makes me wonder if they planned it on being priced so closely with the PS5.

It can be true that the PS5 DE caught them off guard.
 
I seriously wonder if Microsoft can get away with not putting out a rival to the PS5 Pro.

If the PS5 Pro is uniquely the best console to play games on and the PS5's price point is the same or cheaper than the XSX, Microsoft is going to be in a difficult sandwich, not aided by people's lack of interest in the XSS.

As more people buy 4KTVs (over 60% of US smart tv owners have a 4KTV), the XSS is less and less appealing. Given the cost of games the price advantage of the XSS is almost nonexistent, especially if you look at the carbon black XSS.

50 dollars more and you can get a PS5 Digital. That's not even the price difference of one game and you get a much better console...

I really find it hard to believe that Microsoft won't have a competitor to the PS5 Pro. I'm fully expecting one from them to be honest.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I really find it hard to believe that Microsoft won't have a competitor to the PS5 Pro. I'm fully expecting one from them to be honest.

It's a double-edged sword though.

If they do, they'll have to commit to THREE different skus (the higher of which will be held back by the Series S).

There are also difficulties in marketing three skus and the manufacturing bottleneck in doing so.
 
It's a double-edged sword though.

If they do, they'll have to commit to THREE different skus (the higher of which will be held back by the Series S).

There are also difficulties in marketing three skus and the manufacturing bottleneck in doing so.

Exactly, they are not selling the two consoles they are making right now...

Why should they make a THIRD one???

Where is the demand?
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
If they come out with a XSX Pro, I would anticipate at the very least they'd discontinue the manufacturer of new Series S.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Exactly, they are not selling the two consoles they are making right now...

Why should they make a THIRD one???

Where is the demand?

I think depending on the price and specs of the PS5 Pro, you truly risk losing hardcore gamers semi-permanently.

When you look at GTA5 and people look at what system plays it at its best, it'll be clear that it is the PS5 Pro. As people build their digital libraries, they are going to be more locked into one ecosystem over another. The inability to compete now can have a direct impact on the next generation. What people buy this generation has the largest impact on what they will buy in the next generation.

That wasn't the case with the PS2 going into the PS3, especially as they eschewed backward compatibility, not to mention the lack of enhancements.

But you have friends lists, digital libraries, control scheme preferences, 1st party titles that people grow accustomed to...

Having no competitor to PS5 Pro will ultimately be a mistake, but it might be a mistake they've already boxed themselves into.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Would they kill support for it after selling it as: "Same as Series X, but at 1440p".... ???

Good luck with that

You'd still have to support it, but you don't need to make new hardware. By moving away from manufacturing the Series S, they could focus on directly competing with and marketing against the PS5 and PS5 Pro.
 
Looking back at these records it is incredible how successful the DS and Wii were during 2008, 2009 and 2010. These yearly and monthly records may never be beaten.

Top 15 Record NPD years

2009: NDS - 11.19 million
2008: Wii - 10.17 million
2008: NDS - 9.95 million
2009: Wii - 9.59 million
2020: NSW - 8.98 million
2010: NDS - 8.58 million
2007: NDS - 8.43 million
2002: PS2 - 8.39 million
2003: GBA - 7.78 million
2021: NSW - 7.61 million
2011: XB360 - 7.24 million
1999: GBC - 7.21 million
1998: PS1 - 7.11 million
2004: GBA - 7.08 million
2010: Wii - 7.07 million

Top 15 Record NPD months

Dec 2009: Wii - 3.81 million
Dec 2009: NDS - 3.31 million
Dec 2008: NDS - 3.04 million
Dec 2002: PS2 - 2.69 million
Dec 2010: NDS - 2.51 million
Dec 2007: NDS - 2.47 million
Dec 2010: Wii - 2.36 million
Dec 2003: GBA - 2.26 million
Dec 2008: Wii - 2.15 million
Dec 2002: GBA - 2.14 million
Dec 2020: NSW - 2.12 million
Dec 2019: NSW - 2.08 million
Dec 2004: GBA - 2.06 million
Dec 2001: PS2 - 1.95 million
Dec 2003: PS2 - 1.93 million

Note: missing GBC monthly data. XB360's 2011 data is missing, XB360's Dec 2010 was 1.86 million and because 2011 was XB360's peak year it's Dec 2011 may have been higher.




Here are the crazy numbers from 2008, 2009 and 2010, taken from InstallBase.


Console Full Year Results: 2008


MonthWiiXbox 360PS3PS2NDSPSP
January274,000230,000269,000264,000251,000230,000
February432,000255,000281,000352,000587,600243,100
March721,000262,000257,000216,000698,000297,000
April714,000188,000187,000124,000414,800192,700
May675,000187,000209,000133,000452,600182,300
June667,000219,000406,000189,000783,000337,400
July555,000205,000225,000156,000608,000222,000
August453,000195,000185,000144,000518,300253,000
September687,000347,000232,000174,000536,800238,100
October807,000371,000190,000136,000491,000193,000
November2,040,000836,000378,000206,0001,570,000421,000
December2,150,0001,440,000726,000410,0003,040,0001,020,000
Total10,175,0004,735,0003,545,0002,504,0009,951,1003,829,600
Life to Date17,545,00013,886,0006,791,00043,400,00027,512,00014,321,000


Console Full Year Results: 2009


MonthWiiXbox 360PS3PS2DSPSP
January679,000309,000203,000101,000510,800172,300
February753,000391,000276,000131,000588,000199,000
March601,000330,000218,000112,000563,000168,000
April340,000175,000127,000172,0001,040,000116,000
May290,000175,000131,000117,000633,500100,400
June362,000241,000165,000153,000766,500163,500
July253,000203,000122,000108,000538,900122,800
August277,000215,000210,000106,000552,900140,300
September463,000353,000492,000146,000524,200190,400
October507,000250,000321,000118,000457,600174,600
November1,260,000820,000710,000203,0001,700,000293,900
December3,810,0001,310,0001,360,000333,0003,310,000654,700
Total9,595,0004,772,0004,335,0001,800,00011,185,4002,495,900
Life to Date27,140,00018,658,00011,126,00045,164,00038,697,00016,817,000


Console Full Year Results: 2010


MonthWiiXbox 360PS3PS2NDSPSP
January466,000333,000277,00042,000422,000100,000
February398,000422,000360,000102,000613,000133,000
March558,000338,000314,000118,000701,000120,000
April277,000185,000181,00044,000442,00066,000
May335,000195,000154,00033,000384,00059,000
June423,000452,000305,00061,000511,000121,000
July254,000444,000214,00025,000398,00084,000
August244,000357,000226,00076,000343,00079,000
September254,000484,000312,00060,000403,000107,000
October232,000325,000250,00033,000342,00075,000
November1,270,0001,374,000530,00081,0001,508,000289,000
December2,360,0001,860,0001,210,00075,0002,512,000429,000
Total7,071,0006,769,0004,333,000750,0008,579,0001,662,000
Life to Date34,211,00025,427,00015,459,00045,914,00047,276,00018,478,000
 
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Sojiro

Member
Switch did worse in 2022 than it did in 2019, definitely time for a replacement for soon.
Think we will see a big permanent price drop on the Switch soon? I would think the Switch would get one before Nintendo officially starts talking about number 2.
 

Woopah

Member
Toyota sells a lot more cars than Ferrari: are they competitors?
I don't think this comparison is very fair to Sony. Their ambition is not to be a niche brand only for the super wealthy, while Nintendo is a far more popular brand that consistently and vastly outsells them.

Sony sees the PlayStation brand as a direct competitor to the Nintendo and Xbox brands. They want to sell more than the other 2.
The new Series S model is kind of strange especially when compared to the PS5 DE. Makes me wonder if they planned it on being priced so closely with the PS5.

It can be true that the PS5 DE caught them off guard.
Yeah I think their aim was for the Series S to be the cheapest way to play next gen games.
It's a double-edged sword though.

If they do, they'll have to commit to THREE different skus (the higher of which will be held back by the Series S).

There are also difficulties in marketing three skus and the manufacturing bottleneck in doing so.
Xbox One and Switch have three models so, while it does bring challenges it is perfectly possible
 
Starfield is one hell of a test for MS. It will be the biggest exclusive for the Xbox family, outside of the next ES, provided the latter drops during this generation. If the impact on sales is minimal, or very brief (sales surge around its release date, and crater a month or two later), then there is probably nothing MS could do to seriously compete with Sony.
 
It's a double-edged sword though.

If they do, they'll have to commit to THREE different skus (the higher of which will be held back by the Series S).

There are also difficulties in marketing three skus and the manufacturing bottleneck in doing so.

And not having one would look bad for them. Plus they lose what little power advantage they have.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
And not having one would look bad for them. Plus they lose what little power advantage they have.

Yeah, that's why I described it as a double-edged sword. It's basically an option to pick the least of two bad options. I think personally they should come out with a step-up model and cease production on the S.

I don't think you can concede the power advantage conversation outright.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I don't think this comparison is very fair to Sony. Their ambition is not to be a niche brand only for the super wealthy, while Nintendo is a far more popular brand that consistently and vastly outsells them.

Sony sees the PlayStation brand as a direct competitor to the Nintendo and Xbox brands. They want to sell more than the other 2.

Yeah I think their aim was for the Series S to be the cheapest way to play next gen games.

Xbox One and Switch have three models so, while it does bring challenges it is perfectly possible

Not sure the Xbox One is a model to stand up as an example to follow.

The Switch is very different. Not only is it already a hybrid system, it has no other handheld competitors. Also, the models run the exact same software at the same spec, so not really analogous to running 3 different specs.
 
Xbox One and Switch have three models so, while it does bring challenges it is perfectly possible

No, they don't have 3 different hardware specs/performance levels

Xbox One S is a simple revision of Xbox One

Hardware inside the Switch has been always the same since Day 1 in 2017 (Tegra X1 chip)

You don't understand the difference between SKUs and hardware specs....

That's why you think Series S and Series X are the same console.....
 

Woopah

Member
Think we will see a big permanent price drop on the Switch soon? I would think the Switch would get one before Nintendo officially starts talking about number 2.
They said they are not planning a price cut this fiscal year, and their Q1 performance won't change their mind about that.

If sales start dipping before Mario Wonder comes out they may do a price drop then, but I think a price drop next year is possible.
 

Tsaki

Member
You'd still have to support it, but you don't need to make new hardware. By moving away from manufacturing the Series S, they could focus on directly competing with and marketing against the PS5 and PS5 Pro.
Would they kill support for it after selling it as: "Same as Series X, but at 1440p".... ???

Good luck with that

I don't see how that's feasible. They'd be asking developers to make software for a system they don't sell. That's not gonna go well. And they won't allow the devs to skip it since then they'd have law firms lining up to sue them for lying to buyers of the S.
MS would expect Sony to make a Pro console before the systems even released and they would not let them ride the second half of the generation uncontested. They went out of their way to have "The most powerful console" with the X, to a point where they cannot cost cut the thing and make a profit off of it. Besides, development would have started before MS would seen the poor sales of 2023. In fact for the first 1.5-2 years they might have gotten the opposite idea.
I think the simple answer is that they will have 3 SKUs for the devs to juggle and they don't care.
 

Tsaki

Member
Xbox One and Switch have three models so, while it does bring challenges it is perfectly possible
I think it's straight forward with these. They make the game for the S and don't bother with the OG One. Does it run at 30fps on the One S? Then it will occasionally drop to 26 fps on the One. So what?
For the Switch, it's two modes: Docked and Undocked. The Portable-only Switch runs exclusively on the Undocked mode and that's that. And no one really cares how games run on the Switch. Performance is not its appeal and the customer knows it.
 

Woopah

Member
Not sure the Xbox One is a model to stand up as an example to follow.

The Switch is very different. Not only is it already a hybrid system, it has no other handheld competitors. Also, the models run the exact same software at the same spec, so not really analogous to running 3 different specs.
I was purely speaking about the supply chain challenges around having 3 different models, which do exist but are not impossible to overcome.

For the actual software developers, then yes having to programme for 3 different specs does make things more challenging.
No, they don't have 3 different hardware specs/performance levels

Xbox One S is a simple revision of Xbox One

Hardware inside the Switch has been always the same since Day 1 in 2017 (Tegra X1 chip)

You don't understand the difference between SKUs and hardware specs....

That's why you think Series S and Series X are the same console.....
I understand that sometimes different SKUs have different hardware specs, and sometimes different SKUs have the same hardware specs.

If MS does come out with a more powerful Xbox Series, it will still be an Xbox Series. Likewise if Sony comes out with a a more powerful PS5, it will still be a PS5.
 
What exactly is your point? Toyota and Ferrari prices are by far apart whereas an oled switch is only $50 less than a ps5 de.

The point is that Sony and Nintendo are targeting different market segments just like Ferrari and Toyota.

High performance console VS casual/portable console

They don't compete DIRECTLY against each other...

I mean Jim Ryan himself said this in the Activision FTC hearing....
 
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Woopah

Member
I think it's straight forward with these. They make the game for the S and don't bother with the OG One. Does it run at 30fps on the One S? Then it will occasionally drop to 26 fps on the One. So what?
For the Switch, it's two modes: Docked and Undocked. The Portable-only Switch runs exclusively on the Undocked mode and that's that. And no one really cares how games run on the Switch. Performance is not its appeal and the customer knows it.
To clarify, I was speaking about the challenges for a console manufacturer, not a software developer.

On the software side, yes there are added complexities.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I seriously wonder if Microsoft can get away with not putting out a rival to the PS5 Pro.

If the PS5 Pro is uniquely the best console to play games on and the PS5's price point is the same or cheaper than the XSX, Microsoft is going to be in a difficult sandwich, not aided by people's lack of interest in the XSS.

As more people buy 4KTVs (over 60% of US smart tv owners have a 4KTV), the XSS is less and less appealing. Given the cost of games the price advantage of the XSS is almost nonexistent, especially if you look at the carbon black XSS.

50 dollars more and you can get a PS5 Digital. That's not even the price difference of one game and you get a much better console...
Exactly. Not many people have realized it, but Microsoft has put itself in a box, launching Series S and Series X at the same time.

Now, if they don't do a Pro, PlayStation will undisputedly have the power narrative.

If they do a Pro, they will end up with 3 SKUs + PC for devs to make their games for, as well as a new console in a series that hasn't been selling well at all and incurs up to $200 loss for every unit it does sell. Moreover, when the next cross-gen period rolls out, Xbox devs will be making games for:
  • PC
  • Xbox Series S
  • Xbox Series X
  • Xbox Series Pro
  • Xbox Series Ss (next-gen)
  • Xbox Series Xx (next-gen)
 
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