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Civilization: Beyond Earth |OT| - The Future of Mankind

Niahak

Member
Something people really seem to miss about diplomacy. If two factions dow you they take into account their combined military strength against you in their calculations. If those two civs are only at war with you they are less likely to negotiate. You either have to wipe one of them out. Or have a third faction dow them. AI's are much more likely to negotiate if they are fighting a two front war.


I find that most of the time people that complain about diplomacy are the ones that tend to ignore it completely. It's not perfect but if you pay attention to it a bit its perfectly manageable.

I've definitely had that help me in the past (either wiping one out or having another faction declare), but I already had an ally in the war and Polystralia was just enough ahead of me in tech that I couldn't take out Brasilia. The two-front thing didn't help and everyone else was on another contintent. I could've stockpiled units until they made peace, for sure. I only have myself to blame for that stuff, I was too focused on growth and production to catch up easily in tech or units. I still do feel that the AI is a little too war happy in certain situations (e.g. they DoW you, then you have the diplomacy malus of "we're at war" which causes them to be unwilling to compromise), but that's definitely good advice for anyone struggling with the AI!

It'd be nice if I could've traded the 11 favors I had over another faction for that war.

In another situation in that game, I had my ally DoW another faction (so I auto joined), and 20 turns later my ally had lost a city. The other faction offers me a city for peace when I hadn't done a thing...
 

Sevenfold

Member
As someone who likes to play mouse only can I just say fuck you to the devs for making the stupid eye menu with all the useful shit in it obscure the yeild popup. Why can't it stick to my cursor? Didn't Civ 5 have an option? Wait, does this? Is it... hidden behind something?
 

wagamer

Member
Has anyone tried the benchmark? Found this at some performance review:

To enable it, you simple add "-benchmark results.csv" to the Steam game launch options and then start up the game normally. Rather than taking you to the main menu, you'll be transported into a view of a map that represents a somewhat typical gaming state for a long term session. The game will use the last settings you ran the game at to measure your system's performance, without the modified launch options, so be sure to configure that before you prepare to benchmark.

The output of this is the "result.csv" file, saved to your Steam game install root folder. In there, you'll find a list of numbers, separated by commas, representing the frame times for each frame rendering during the run. You don't get averages, a minimum, or a maximum without doing a little work. Fire up Excel or Google Docs and remember the formula:

1000 / Average (All Frame Times) = Avg FPS

It's a crude measurement that doesn't take into account any errors, spikes, or other interesting statistical data, but at least you'll have something to compare with your friends.

With all settings maxed out, 1080p, Mantle and an R9 280 I got an average of 43fps. Sounds a bit low, but I guess my CPU is a bit of a bottleneck here.
 
Is there any way to establish early military dominance / early wins through fighting?

I'm really bad at CIV games but I just can't get into the macro-farmy type of gameplay. I wanna fight early but I don't know how I would tech/virtue my way to do it.

nope, your early units suck dick vs bases and you take a major hit on population health if you do conquer the city.

Tested out the purple strat last night, it works with some caveats

Population Health techs and Farm growth techs are all on the right side, you have no advance unit technologies if you go this way.

You have to abuse your ability to get purple points early to increase the speed in which you can build buildings.

Max Farms ignore everything else, you want to max your population growth and population health while expanding your cities.

in 150 turns you should have the economic engine to basically do anything you want.

Win conditions are fucking dumb
 

GPsych

Member
After finally giving up getting the game to work on my gaming PC, I installed it on my 4 year-old laptop that only has a GT 350M and it worked nicely. I went ahead and played/finished a Marathon game on Mercury difficulty as the PAC and had an awesome time.

Overall, the game does have some flaws. I hate that I have no idea what the Wonders actually are in terms of lore. I built a "Promethean" for example and I have no clue what it actually is. It seriously takes me out of the game. I have a similar problem with the different techs, but I can generally imagine what each of them actually do.

The game also needs to have some sort of diplomacy or cultural victory. As it stands now, all the victory conditions are effectively science victories accomplished in slightly different ways. Science has always been king in Civ, but now it's like High Emperor of Everything.

Also, the Massive map isn't that great. It's too big to the extent that after 600 turns (on Marathon) no one had gone to war and there was still tons of open space to expand. With resources that abundant, no one really bothered to do anything. Next time I am definitely going with the standard-sized map.

As for positives, I really like the quest decision system. This is something that Civ V really lacks and would really benefit from. It actually feels like I'm making a civilization and not just settlements/buildings. I can imagine that this will really help on multiple play throughs.

The Aliens are also much better than barbarians. I've read the criticisms that they are basically the same thing, but they really aren't. They add a significant amount of coolness to the game.

Ultimately, I think it's pretty damn fun. It's not as good as Civ V with all its expansions, but it has a good base to work with. After an expansion and maybe some DLC for new factions, I think it will hold up to Civ V nicely.
 

Ikael

Member
My personal first impressions / review, cross-posted form Civfanatic's forums:

My review of BE:

Conclussion:

Beyond Earth? Move beyond focus test group game design, Firaxis. Please, I beg you

Cons:

Sorry, but I cannot feel any love for this game. Nor distate, too, so that's the bland middle point that they were aiming for, I guess. If that's the case, sorry, but THAT is no reciepe for greatness. That is a reciepe for blandness and mediocricy instead.

I have never met in my life a game that transpires genericness so much as this one, that makes it so clearly that it has been designed with a marketing focus group on the backs of developers all the time. For all the effort on studying European boardgames that Firaxis have put, they have seem to forget about one of the most vital characteristics of them all: "flavour".

Yes, a videogame is about making interestingt decisions. But if they are meaningless and one-sided, they are not decisions, they are mindless nuisances, like picking if I am going to drink my cup of morning coffee in a red or blue cup. Life's already filled with meaningless decisions like these, if I want to feel as if I am shaping the future of the human race on an alien planet instead, my decisions should carry, you know, weight. Quests, promotions, affinities, ship cargo... in the end they don't matter. At all. Hell, virtues are the only things remotely game-changing. This is not good sign for the game's replayability.

The factions, oh, the factions. The focus group is strong with these ones. So ok, you first make them vaguely related to Earth ethnic / political groups so they can be appealing to your customers... only to not being able to make them steer strongly towards one gameplay style or another in fear for disgusting said base of customers, and of course you don't dare to introduce penalties within them a la Alpha Centauri. Cowardly game design makes for a bland, flavourless game with forgettable factions / characters. Then gain: lack of flavour is the main issue of this game. A heavy focus on "asymetrical balance" gameplay a la Civ: Revolutions would have helped the game inmensely.

The happiness mechanic was a failure in Civ V, and is still a failure in BE. I know that it's hard to let it go off concepts that you loved at first, but seriously, do like Elsa and let it go already. We are suppoused to go beyond earth, yet you keep obsolete concepts like these going and going....

Horrible graphic optimization too. The game runs slow and clutttered on my PC whilst CivV: BNW runs smoothly and peachy on the same hardware

The game is unpolished, unfinished and unbalanced in a way that resembles the very worst things of Civilization's V release. Everything feels "halfway there". Yes, the game has potential to mend many of its more easier to repair flaws (wonders, military unit balance, etc) but then again, the lack of clear direction and focus shows its ugly head in the form of lack of design decisions that ens up translating into deep balance issues. I have payed 50 € to recieve a full game, not a beta testing ticket.

Pros:

Outstanding soundtrack, the graphics / ambience got nailed very well. It's a pity that for some reason wonder and victory movies are forbidden by the producers now, because they would have helped to increase the mood of the game tenfold and Firaxis have shown plenty of talent in these areas.

The planet has character indeed and the game mechanics regarding aliens helps it to become alive in a way that aestethics alone can't. I love how the planet itself limits your expansion actively and with "on board" elements (miasma, roarming alien lifeforms, etc) rather than any kind of arbitrary mechanic a la health.

Exploring the planet is a delicious activity. The reimagined Civ V's archeology system works like a a charm in this new scenario.

Tech web is a rather intriguing concept. It needs a couple of tweaks here and there, but the potential for long term strategies and tech slingshots is present and very real indeed. Mad props for whoever thought about it!
 

LTWheels

Member
I don't know about this game...

I don't think I properly understand trade routes and Outposts. Can you only trade with one outpost at a time? I'm trading with one outpost and another appears near my city. Yet there is no option to start trading with it from my trade convoys. My trade routes are not full.

There does not seem to be anyone else trading with it.

Trading seems to be poorly explained. There is not enough feedback as to who you can trade with and which cities are unable to trade with you and for what reason.

I'll probably return to Endless Legend soon...
 

Trigger

Member
This game couldn't be any damn drier. I enjoy finding new techs and playing with some of the new mechanics, but everything feels very dull. The tech web is probably the only thing I can call a real improvement over Civ 5, but it's hard to identify what's what in it.
 

Niahak

Member
I don't know about this game...

I don't think I properly understand trade routes and Outposts. Can you only trade with one outpost at a time? I'm trading with one outpost and another appears near my city. Yet there is no option to start trading with it from my trade convoys. My trade routes are not full.

There does not seem to be anyone else trading with it.

Trading seems to be poorly explained. There is not enough feedback as to who you can trade with and which cities are unable to trade with you and for what reason.

I'll probably return to Endless Legend soon...

Usually if you can't trade with someone, it's because you haven't explored enough to make a path to that city / outpost. It needs to either be an unbroken direct land route or an unbroken direct water route (i.e. rivers are okay, but no crossing water with a land convoy). Generally you can cross hostile territory, but it's going to be risky.

IIRC the rule about stations is: Only one city in your empire can trade with that outpost at a time (e.g. if your capitol is trading with Far Base One, none of your other cities can trade with Far Base One, but they can trade with another station).

Stations aren't too useful to trade with right now, unless you're looking to get science or energy without helping out another civ.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I think I just lost my game.

I say 'think' because I got a screen saying that we failed. Not sure who we is? my faction? the human race? Not sure why they failed. I wasn't told who met what victory condition, or that anyone was even close to one. The game just...ended. Can't even continue on to see what happened. Last I checked I had 3 times the cities of everyone else, a 600 point lead, I had a wall of military units around every single country and more resources than I knew what to do with. But I guess I lost by some metric. I sat through 10 to 15 hours of 'YES I FUCKING WANT TO RENEW TRADE ROUTE #402" for a cheesy bitmap and some nonsensical text.

I'm changing my opinion from 'this game needs work' to 'unfinished and unplaytested money grab'.
 

LProtag

Member
I'm having fun with it, but I can't help but think Endless Legend has been a bit more fun.

Sure, Civ seems a lot more streamlined and things are less clunky than with Endless Legend, but the diversity of playstyles when it comes to factions is way more fun with EL than it is with Civ.
 
I'm having fun with it, but I can't help but think Endless Legend has been a bit more fun.

Sure, Civ seems a lot more streamlined and things are less clunky than with Endless Legend, but the diversity of playstyles when it comes to factions is way more fun with EL than it is with Civ.

This is definitely something they need to look at for any future BE expansions. EL didn't really stick for me, but I loved how incredibly diverse the factions were.
 

Zero Hero

Member
Man these outposts sure have a habit of popping up as soon as I have a colonist ready. On top of every good collection of resources, which they don't even use.

Kill them. I haven't seen any sort of negative to doing so except losing the trade route.

My machine runs much quieter using Mantle vs. DirectX.
 

zeorhymer

Member
Played a good 16 hours or so over the weekend and I'm ambivalent about it. It feels like Civ 5...a bit too much like Civ 5. The nation selection is all generic with the +% bonus to one thing or +% something bonus to another thing.

All the techs are the same for everyone...even the military units. Only difference is whichever affinity you choose, but you can have the exact same set up as any other country. The ideology trees are nice, but I'm curious as why they only did the main 4 (i.e. military, tech, industry and population) and not the flavorful ones of Civ 5.

Diplomacy is still wonky. Example would be, I would get a message for their country to trade 1 favor point for 100 energy. I think cool so I hit accept and they say, sorry, that is unacceptable. So I scratch my head and click what would make it work and they say, I want a city! I'm baffled since *they* put down the initial terms to begin with.

Overall I think this is a fairly good game. Thinking about it in relation to vanilla Civ5, there's nothing ground breaking. The tech web is a great addition making the selections feel organic. If I had a do over, I wouldn't pay full price. Probably $20-30 range. Lets wait what amazing expansion will come from this down the line. (Brave New World v2!)
 
Hmm interesting, is it better than Civ5?? (I've never heard of Endless Space either)

It's better than BE, that's for sure.

Endless Space is cool because it has the space theme, but it didn't really quite come together like Legend did. Legend needs a couple patches, but it's already incredibly fun.
 

Realyn

Member
Trading Route Simulator 2014 ™. I'm 3/3 on BE/Apollo games so far and pretty much done until the first balance patch hits. Sure, Deity was cheap. But it was atleast something to keep you playing. This right now ... is just sad. The game is more about trade routes than the AI.

I also dislike the later techs. Wonders suck ass and buildings are too rare. For the last 150(epic) something turns my cities were simply building wealth/science.

Oh, and Firaxis. Would be awesome if I could play your game in 1080p fullscreen 4 days after release, thank you.
 

LilJoka

Member
Has anyone tried the benchmark? Found this at some performance review:



With all settings maxed out, 1080p, Mantle and an R9 280 I got an average of 43fps. Sounds a bit low, but I guess my CPU is a bit of a bottleneck here.

Im getting
min 11fps
avg 32fps
max 90fps

With a 3960x 4.8Ghz and Asus 5870 1GB with 1080p max settings. MSAA 2x.
CPU usage is around 70% on one thread, 10-20% on other 5 threads. 6 threads at 0%.
 
Trading Route Simulator 2014 ™. I'm 3/3 on BE/Apollo games so far and pretty much done until the first balance patch hits. Sure, Deity was cheap. But it was atleast something to keep you playing. This right now ... is just sad. The game is more about trade routes than the AI.

Play modded IMO. Once you bring down the number of trade routes, things like city specialization from tile improvements, yield orbitals (and thus strategic resources), tech web hard choices, tall vs. wide, and a lot of other things become more relevant. The default way trade routes work invalidates a lot of the design of the game.

edit: first beta of enhanced UI is out, providing some REALLY useful terrain tooltips that help a lot w/ tile specialization.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=536794
 

Noaloha

Member
In options, setting the tooltip delay to zero has made (modless) tile inspection much less aggravating.

Also, echoing the praise for Endless Legend - tons of great leftfield fantasy/sci-fi flavour and the empire management is really well done. Combat is blegh though - I play with auto resolve only and strategise/armybuild accordingly. If combat is your bag, Age Of Wonders 3 is bloody fantastic at this point, albeit with a theme skewed largely (though not entirely) toward typical fantasy fare.
 
If combat is your bag, Age Of Wonders 3 is bloody fantastic at this point, albeit with a theme skewed largely (though not entirely) toward typical fantasy fare.

Agreed. That game is really well put together. My problem with it though is that it's almost entirely a combat simulator. Empire building and city management is pretty shallow, with the only real goal of pumping out troops. So much personality and customization though....
 

CloudWolf

Member
Tech web is a rather intriguing concept. It needs a couple of tweaks here and there, but the potential for long term strategies and tech slingshots is present and very real indeed. Mad props for whoever thought about it!
It may just be me, but I actually don't really enjoy the tech web. Sure, it's a great concept, but the exection mean that (at least for me) a lot of the excitement of teching is ripped from the game. Part of the fun for me in Civ V was outteching your enemies and (in multiplayer at least) getting to certain techs first so I could steal a wonder before my opponents eyes (in my last multiplayer Civ V game I got the Hanging Gardens one turn before a friend of mine would've gotten it, that feels awesome). With the tech web though it's almst impossible to truly know if you're leading in tech or not since every player will take a wildly different path and with that a lot of the excitement I felt with researching new stuff in Civ V is gone.
 
The UI is so bad, I might just be missing it but is there a way to rush production with energy?
Double click on a city and towards the upper right you'll see Production and Purchase tabs. The purchase tab is where you can use energy to insta-create buildings/units. If a building/unit is half built, you still have to pay full cost though.
 
Is auto broken for Workers? I had some set to auto and they just moved about aimlessly not building anything after a while.

Works fine for me (though you need to be careful or else they'll spend all their time working on Terrascapes or something, and the next thing you know you're out of floatstone).

The UI is so bad, I might just be missing it but is there a way to rush production with energy?

Top right hand corner on the city screen.
 
Is auto broken for Workers? I had some set to auto and they just moved about aimlessly not building anything after a while.

For me all they do is make Terrascapes. I've seen a lot of arguments over one unit per tile being a logistical nightmare to manage, I agree with that to an extent if you've managed to warmonger yourself a massive empire it becomes a real pain in the ass to dictate all of the workers and tile improvements. You can't trust the automate function in Beyond Earth with all of the expensive tiles it will build. The automate can sink your economy if you don't pay attention.
 

Bregor

Member
Ok, I just finished my first game on Apollo (the highest difficulty) and I thought I would give my thoughts. As a background, I've played every Civ since the first, though it wasn't until Civ 5 that I really got into the game seriously. I've played 1420 hours of Civ 5, and my skill level is essentially Immortal, though I have had a victory on Deity.

On the positive side this is a game that has real potential to be very interesting. Like previous Civ games I can see that there are (potentially) interesting choices to make, and the player both has to make long range plans and adapt to circumstances. Your empire is structured differently than Civ 5, a lot more flat bonuses encourage wide play again, that's good.

I like the decoupling of military potential from tech. I always suspected that they might attempt to solve the science balance problem with this title. (In previous Civ games science was always the most valuable thing you could get, better than any other resource.) They've done a good job of it with Civ BE, science is still important, but no longer a guarantee of superiority. You must have Science and Affinity.

Aesthetically it's very pleasing, other than the UI.

Unfortunately, the biggest flaw is that there are several major unbalanced elements in the game currently. As others have noted, the most critical one is that internal trade routes are far too strong. Wonders being weak are another balance problem.

This game is also much less of a challenge than Civ 5 was. Apollo doesn't match Deity in difficulty, not even Immortal. It is the equivalent of Emperor at best. This may be partially due to the overpowered trade routes, but I doubt that is the only factor.

In addition, I am not pleased that the victory conditions other than domination all are essentially identical, accumulate enough tech and affinity to build a project, then hold out for about 20 turns. Civ 5 had a variety of victory conditions that required you approach them in different ways, and do more than just tech up and build a wonder for most of them.

Finally, there are some baffling UI downgrades from Civ 5.

Overall I enjoy this game, but just not as much as Civ 5. Playing Civ 5 made me feel like I was manipulating an intricate system, and at the highest difficulty levels forced me to use every trick at my disposal to overcome the AI's advantages. Civ BE just doesn't have the complexity or challenge that Civ 5 has. And yet ... I get this feeling that at the core the systems are there that could make it great. I never got the same feeling with Endless Legend, beautiful as that game was it never convinced me that it was a good strategy game.

I will probably go back to Civ 5 soon, but I'll be watching Civ BE. If Firaxis gives it the attention it needs to balance it and remove the rough edges, it may win me back.
 
If you're a new player and want to take 50 turns getting "Computing" because that sounds cool instead of Pioneering (only correct choice), well, you're fucked. On a slightly harder difficulty, or playing with friends, you just lost the game on one of the earliest choices you could make. Honestly, the game should prevent you from making those choices that are that incorrect. Why are you ever presented with the option of Pioneering vs Computing? Civ 5 at least prevents you from making dumb choices by reasonably limiting them.

Pioneering is the cheapest tech to learn AND the game is guaranteed to give you an early quest to learn pioneering so it's not like the game isn't strongly pushing the player to give pioneering early. And hey, one game where you get pioneering and see its importance is all it takes to learn the lesson for the future.

I'm really enjoying the tech web. Trying to decide between getting early game technologies for general benefits and beelining to advanced technologies is a fun balancing act.
 
Sorry I worded it like that. I know why they are ... but just ... why did Firaxis make them so shitty this time around.

A few are worth it ... but there are some that are real head scratchers (Crawler?)

Yeah, the Crawler is a weird one. It's a wonder... that makes it easier to build more wonders. And not even a lot easier, it's only like a 15% bump, right? Plus, you'd think that the Crawler would be able to, y'know, crawl.

Ooh, having Wonder Units would be cool. You could only have one per game/empire/affinity, and they could do all sorts of wacky shit.

Anyway, I doubt it was intentional :p I guess they had some trouble putting them together this time is all.
 

Noaloha

Member
I like the decoupling of military potential from tech. I always suspected that they might attempt to solve the science balance problem with this title. (In previous Civ games science was always the most valuable thing you could get, better than any other resource.) They've done a good job of it with Civ BE, science is still important, but no longer a guarantee of superiority. You must have Science and Affinity.
The problem there is "how does one acquire Affinity?" With the answer being science. :p

From my couple of games it sort of feels like beakers are tied to military potency more than ever, what with how quickly a few Affinity ranks ramps up your combat units.
 
The problem there is "how does one acquire Affinity?" With the answer being science. :p

From my couple of games it sort of feels like beakers are tied to military potency more than ever, what with how quickly a few Affinity ranks ramps up your combat units.

Eh. You can get Affinity from Quests and exploring progenitor ruins as well, so that goes a long way to mitigate beaker dependency.
 
Managing trade routes is the most tedious thing in this game.

The problem there is "how does one acquire Affinity?" With the answer being science. :p

From my couple of games it sort of feels like beakers are tied to military potency more than ever, what with how quickly a few Affinity ranks ramps up your combat units.

Science, quests and excavations. You can get free Affinity levels from excavations. I find on the larger maps, two or three explorers can make a huge difference. The A.I. rarely seems to restock its explorers with excavation pods, if ever, so it's pretty easy to jump around get raw science, culture, production and tech boosts along with free units and affinity levels. If you go down the science policy track (or whatever) you get a bump of 30 science with each dig as well off of a second point in the first track.
 

ctothej

Member
I'm having a lot more fun with this game multiplayer. A lot of the balance issues dissipate against human-controlled opponents. I wonder if that's how they did most of the playtesting.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
So I like to go for cultural victories. Is that viable right now? They seem to be the victory condition most prone to undercooking.
 

Noaloha

Member
Eh. You can get Affinity from Quests and exploring progenitor ruins as well, so that goes a long way to mitigate beaker dependency.

Science, quests and excavations. You can get free Affinity levels from excavations. I find on the larger maps, two or three explorers can make a huge difference. The A.I. rarely seems to restock its explorers with excavation pods, if ever, so it's pretty easy to jump around get raw science, culture, production and tech boosts along with free units and affinity levels. If you go down the science policy track (or whatever) you get a bump of 30 science with each dig as well off of a second point in the first track.
Hmm, not sure I'm convinced. :)

I consider the quest Affinity points pretty much freebies, not something to strategise around with too much thought. They feel pretty much like auto-choices based on opening. The excavation Affinity pops are certainly there, but I didn't get the impression I could use Explorers to fuel my Affinity gains. The lion's share is still going to come from science (and I consider picking Affinities that grant science on digs as a strat that focuses on science gain - the original point being that focusing on beakers still leads to military might). As an aside, alien-immune explorers plus the military Affinity that grants science on clearing nests is pretty sweet!
 
After playing a few games solo and with friends I've grown to reaaaaaaally hate the ways to win. I hate when I finally build the wonder to win with whatever affinity I chose to go with and have to wait 15-30 more turns. I wish it would just give a warning to other players that someone is close to winning and give them 5-10 turns to stop them instead of doing it after and taking forever and being boring as all hell. It'd be like if the science victory in Civ 5 required 20 turns to start the rocket....

I'm sure some people disagree but it annoys the hell out of me. The beacon victory I can accept it but the wonder ones are just annoying
 
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