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[Enduin]

10 cool things in Civilization V that weren't in Civilization IV. What caught my eye that I didn't know:

I have a feeling #1 could be the one of the biggest additions out of them all.

1) Don't pay the ferryman
No more loading/unloading troops! Rise of Nations introduced the idea of naval transport by having your military units turn into little boats when they hit the water, and then turning back into army units when they hit the beach. No one missed having to babysit a bunch of empty transport ships that would only be used once every few centuries. Civilization V borrows the same idea by automatically giving your units a trait called "Embark" when you hit a certain tech. This lets them turn into boats whenever they need to cross water.

While its not an instant unit skill since it will require Optics to get Embarking, its not that far off from the start either. Its a nice feature in that galleys and other transport boats were annoying because of their low capacity but at the same time they were a good check militarily for both you and the AI. You couldnt just at a moments notice invade someone across the water unless you had enough boats to ferry your army across and had them in position to do so. Now with Embarking all you need is your unit there and youre all set.

With the new one unit per tile I would think Embarking wouldnt be needed since Civs will have far fewer units and thus need to create and maintain far few ferry boats to mobilize their armies. I kind of think this wasnt done because it was wholly necessary or greatly positive to the strategic aspects of war but rather to help catalyze wars themselves removing one of the major barriers for the both players and AI. I hope it just doesnt make things too easy.

 

[punkypine]

I have a feeling #1 could be the one of the biggest additions out of them all.



While its not an instant unit skill since it will require Optics to get Embarking, its not that far off from the start either. Its a nice feature in that galleys and other transport boats were annoying because of their low capacity but at the same time they were a good check militarily for both you and the AI. You couldnt just at a moments notice invade someone across the water unless you had enough boats to ferry your army across and had them in position to do so. Now with Embarking all you need is your unit there and youre all set.

With the new one unit per tile I would think Embarking wouldnt be needed since Civs will have far fewer units and thus need to create and maintain far few ferry boats to mobilize their armies. I kind of think this wasnt done because it was wholly necessary or greatly positive to the strategic aspects of war but rather to help catalyze wars themselves removing one of the major barriers for the both players and AI. I hope it just doesnt make things too easy.

at the same time, the embarked units are defenseless, so if you have even the most basic navy, you should be able to take down a huge part of the attacking force really easily. i'm sure there will be some "rushes", but for the most part, i think the fact that sending out units like that makes them extremely vulnerable will counter act the ease of departure

 

[Sblargh]

at the same time, the embarked units are defenseless, so if you have even the most basic navy, you should be able to take down a huge part of the attacking force really easily. i'm sure there will be some "rushes", but for the most part, i think the fact that sending out units like that makes them extremely vulnerable will counter act the ease of departure

You can also have ranged units destroying them from the coast even without a navy.

A pretty winning strategy, I don't know, never played the game, lol.
But I think I good basic strategy will be to just have one or two military ships with a greater ground army behind them and then just sorround the land until you find that one weak spot where you can blast away the resistance and land.

 

[Enduin]

at the same time, the embarked units are defenseless, so if you have even the most basic navy, you should be able to take down a huge part of the attacking force really easily. i'm sure there will be some "rushes", but for the most part, i think the fact that sending out units like that makes them extremely vulnerable will counter act the ease of departure

True, but I was thinking more about situations like the live stream where they were fighting along the red sea where neither had a naval presence. In a situation like that without Embarking both civs would be forced to use land units only at the choke point of the Sinai Peninsula. Even if they did have naval access they would have to get a boat over there and if one of them did have an extra ranged unit available they could destroy that transport and the opposition would have to rebuild it or bring down another one to replace it costing time and resources.

In that situation for the less advanced civ of Japan that would have be an outstanding natural barrier and would have helped them hold out against a far more advanced and superior in numbers enemy.

Another strategic factor that comes into play is that even if you have ranged units that can take out the Embarked unit it only takes that one unit out of the equation. If we were still using transport ships taking out that transport would be taking out 2-3 units along with the transport itself. Your enemy or you would then have rebuild those units but also the transport itself and move them into position giving the opposition a great deal of time to regroup, create additional units and shore up defenses. This is especially important for those voyages over larger bodies of water.

It probably wont be that big of a deal but its something to think about and maybe a worthwhile optional change for future patches, expansions or mods.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

the instant-boat thing seems really cool.

 

[Wallach]

Oh god... I can't afford this now.

*curls up in a ball*

There's a hole where my insides were...

 

[punkypine]

True, but I was thinking more about situations like the live stream where they were fighting along the red sea where neither had a naval presence. In a situation like that without Embarking both civs would be forced to use land units only at the choke point of the Sinai Peninsula. Even if they did have naval access they would have to get a boat over there and if one of them did have an extra ranged unit available they could destroy that transport and the opposition would have to rebuild it or bring down another one to replace it costing time and resources.

In that situation for the less advanced civ of Japan that would have be an outstanding natural barrier and would have helped them hold out against a far more advanced and superior in numbers enemy.

Another strategic factor that comes into play is that even if you have ranged units that can take out the Embarked unit it only takes that one unit out of the equation. If we were still using transport ships taking out that transport would be taking out 2-3 units along with the transport itself. Your enemy or you would then have rebuild those units but also the transport itself and move them into position giving the opposition a great deal of time to regroup, create additional units and shore up defenses. This is especially important for those voyages over larger bodies of water.

It probably wont be that big of a deal but its something to think about and maybe a worthwhile optional change for future patches, expansions or mods.

well, if the units are more valuable, 2-3 units taken out might be half the attacking force and pretty much make the attack worthless. on top of that, cities can attack now. i guess we'll find out when it comes out, but the fact that units that normally may have been able to survive 3 attacks can now be instantly killed is a risky proposition

edit: and without this, perhaps chokepoints would be overpowering. At the suez canal area, in the live play through, you could just have a lineup of 12 guys and be inpenetrable for like 100 years even if your troops were worthless

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I have a feeling #1 could be the one of the biggest additions out of them all.

Oh, I agree on that one. But it was also one of the main discussion points we've had in past threads (it's also mentioned in the OP), so I didn't point it out this time.

 

[Enduin]

well, if the units are more valuable, 2-3 units taken out might be half the attacking force and pretty much make the attack worthless. on top of that, cities can attack now. i guess we'll find out when it comes out, but the fact that units that normally may have been able to survive 3 attacks can now be instantly killed is a risky proposition

edit: and without this, perhaps chokepoints would be overpowering. At the suez canal area, in the live play through, you could just have a lineup of 12 guys and be inpenetrable for like 100 years even if your troops were worthless

True true, I do like the risk involved though. Makes you have to plan things out more intricately, but also I am never very militaristic so I like having all the advantages I can get haha.

Oh, I agree on that one. But it was also one of the main discussion points we've had in past threads (it's also mentioned in the OP), so I didn't point it out this time.

I wouldnt doubt it thats a beastly OP. And looking through it once again I see that Songhai/Askia's units can defend themselves when embarked. That guy is going to be a beast offensively along with his bonuses to Pillaging and Mandekalu Calvary bonus against cities.

 

[Zerokku]

Oh god... I can't afford this now.

*curls up in a ball*

There's a hole where my insides were...

I can afford this, but it's this, or preordering a 3DS day one (assuming the date we get in a week and a half is this year). On one hand Civ 5. On the other hand, it being a console launch the 3DS preorders will be limited and I'm not sure they'll last more than a day.

FFFFFFFFF

 

[Jay Shadow]

With the new one unit per tile I would think Embarking wouldnt be needed since Civs will have far fewer units and thus need to create and maintain far few ferry boats to mobilize their armies.

From a technical standpoint, the 1 unit per tile rule makes loading and unloading multiple units in and out of a transport a mess. It may not be completely game play motivated.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

So, no African Civilizations this time?

I hear Egypt is also in Africa.

I know I'm replying to something from the start of the thread, but this pic from EviLore's cross-country trip over in OT reminded me of it. :lol

 

[Enduin]

From a technical standpoint, the 1 unit per tile rule makes loading and unloading multiple units in and out of a transport a mess. It may not be completely game play motivated.

Actually now that all infantry units can move two hexes and most calvary can move 4 it wouldnt be that big an issue, especially since transports wouldnt hold more than 3 or 4 units anyways.

Also to that whole Egypt is in Africa doesnt really count or matter, most people mean Sub-Saharan Africa since Egypt and most of North Africa have basically been a part of the middle east and especially the Mediterranean communities for most of known history, culturally and ethnically they are quite different from sub-Saharan Africa and its civs like the Sanghai, Mali or others.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Also to that whole Egypt is in Africa doesnt really count or matter, most people mean Sub-Saharan Africa since Egypt and most of North Africa have basically been a part of the middle east and especially the Mediterranean communities for most of known history, culturally and ethnically they are quite different from sub-Saharan Africa and its civs like the Sanghai, Mali or others.

Pretty sure the whole thing is more joke than serious topic.

 

[Enduin]

Pretty sure the whole thing is more joke than serious topic.

You can never be too sure these days.

 

[ThatGuy]

Is there even a hint of a rumor that they might look at a Alpha Centauri sequel next?

Take-Two / 2k owns Firaxis, EA owns Alpha Centauri and Brian Reynolds works at Zynga, so never.

http://supererogatory.tumblr.com/post/89247797/feb-2008-present-firaxis-games-take-2

Feb 2008 - Present
Firaxis Games - Take 2 Interactiva - Freelance Concept Artist
-Unannounced Sci-Fi Game


Don't say never ever.

 

[FleckSplat]

Does the fact that there are "Cradle of Civilization" DLCs for Asia, the Americas, the Mediterranean, etc. mean when I choose the Earth map type I won't be able to play those regions?

So lame, if true.

 

[thy_]

Does the fact that there are "Cradle of Civilization" DLCs for Asia, the Americas, the Mediterranean, etc. mean when I choose the Earth map type I won't be able to play those regions?

So lame, if true.

To my understanding the different DLCs are only tilesets so an Asian forest looks different than an American or a Mediterranean. I don't know if you can mix different tilesets in one map so you could have the American forest only where America would be in your Earth map, or if you can choose only one DLC per game (and have American forest everywhere).

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I will miss the Mali. They were the most awesome civ. Always seemed to be down to ally with you and weren't total jerks on trading tech.

Got this ordered on steam, hopefully I'll get a new computer soon so I can play this.

 

[Minsc]

What seems to be the cheapest way to pick this up? Steam's $50 is just a little bit much for me, I'd drop $40 though, any deals or I probably just missed it all by now.

I'm sure it will go on sale over either Black Friday's sale or the Holiday sale, so I'm not too worried if I have to wait 2-3 months.

 

[Zzoram]

To my understanding the different DLCs are only tilesets so an Asian forest looks different than an American or a Mediterranean. I don't know if you can mix different tilesets in one map so you could have the American forest only where America would be in your Earth map, or if you can choose only one DLC per game (and have American forest everywhere).

Ah ok, so the Cradle of Civilization DLCs is just a region specific map.

I already knew that the Earth map type would have the whole world in the base game, those must just allow you to generate a map based only on one continent.

 

[Zzoram]

What seems to be the cheapest way to pick this up? Steam's $50 is just a little bit much for me, I'd drop $40 though, any deals or I probably just missed it all by now.

I'm sure it will go on sale over either Black Friday's sale or the Holiday sale, so I'm not too worried if I have to wait 2-3 months.

Direct2Drive had a sale a while back, not sure if they are still having a sale. They just give you a Steam serial code so it's the same as buying from Steam.

 

[Minsc]

Direct2Drive had a sale a while back, not sure if they are still having a sale. They just give you a Steam serial code so it's the same as buying from Steam.

Looks like I missed it, back to $50. I'll go back on sale eventually!

 

[TheHeretic]

Direct2Drive had a sale a while back, not sure if they are still having a sale. They just give you a Steam serial code so it's the same as buying from Steam.

Can I use D2D from Australia, because its cheaper than the Australian steam price.

 

[Zzoram]

Looks like I missed it, back to $50. I'll go back on sale eventually!

If you can wait, new releases always go on sale for $37.49 during the Steam Holiday Sale in December.

 

[Zzoram]

Can I use D2D from Australia, because its cheaper than the Australian steam price.

If boxed copies are cheaper, buy those, since they also give you a Steam code.

D2D only lists USA, UK, and Europe under Regions so I don't know if they support Australia.

 

[Firebrand]

To my understanding the different DLCs are only tilesets so an Asian forest looks different than an American or a Mediterranean. I don't know if you can mix different tilesets in one map so you could have the American forest only where America would be in your Earth map, or if you can choose only one DLC per game (and have American forest everywhere).

The graphical tilesets are always in the game, so when you reach another continent it will look a little bit different. I really like this feature.

These "Cradle of Civilization" DLCs each consists of a single handmade map made to look like a real-world region. See the screenshots in the OP.,

Looks like I missed it, back to $50. I'll go back on sale eventually!

There's the "PAX2010" $5 code at least.

 

[thy_]

The graphical tilesets are always in the game, so when you reach another continent it will look a little bit different. I really like this feature.

These "Cradle of Civilization" DLCs each consists of a single handmade map made to look like a real-world region. See the screenshots in the OP.,



There's the "PAX2010" $5 code at least.

ah ok.
So these Map Packs actually only contain one map each? A map which could be exactly rebuild without the Map Pack?

Sorry for spreading misinformation.

 

[pilonv1]

Can I use D2D from Australia, because its cheaper than the Australian steam price.

Pretty sure you'll get a local price there. Best bet is to get someone from the US to gift it to you.

 

[Firebrand]

So these Map Packs actually only contain one map each? A map which could be exactly rebuild without the Map Pack?

Well, I should probably say I don't know for sure, but that's what the pre-order page makes it sound like.

 

[witchedwiz]

bought it from zavvi in the end...

 

[Minsc]

There's the "PAX2010" $5 code at least.

I'll give it a shot, thanks! I can go for $45, I just dislike the idea of $50 + launch DLC + expansions + further DLC, then after buying all that having some GOTY go on sale that's cheaper than buying the final expansion alone.

$45 isn't that much cheaper I know, but whatever, it's Civ V!

 

[XiaNaphryz]

ah ok.
So these Map Packs actually only contain one map each? A map which could be exactly rebuild without the Map Pack?

Sorry for spreading misinformation.

There may be multiple maps of different sizes (i.e. tiny, huge, etc) in the pack, but they'd still likely each be covering the same area.

 

[Archie]

I'll give it a shot, thanks! I can go for $45, I just dislike the idea of $50 + launch DLC + expansions + further DLC, then after buying all that having some GOTY go on sale that's cheaper than buying the final expansion alone.

$45 isn't that much cheaper I know, but whatever, it's Civ V!

Look at it this way: If you get 100 hours of entertainment out of the game before the first expansion pack is announced, then it was probably worth it. (At least that is the rationalization I used).

 

[Minsc]

Look at it this way: If you get 100 hours of entertainment out of the game before the first expansion pack is announced, then it was probably worth it. (At least that is the rationalization I used).

I know, I know... Civ V's cost isn't measured in $s but weeks of your life

 

[Zzoram]

Look at it this way: If you get 100 hours of entertainment out of the game before the first expansion pack is announced, then it was probably worth it. (At least that is the rationalization I used).

I think the typical Civ player gets a lot more than 100 hours out of the game. Civ IV games at Normal speed on Normal sized maps usually took me 8 hours to finish (win or lose). I played a lot more than 12 complete games.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

Well I decided to go ahead and preorder. Civ and Civ2 are some of my favorite games of all time but the last 3 ranged from bad to good for what it is to me so I was going to pass. That combat system though, I'm back.

I think the typical Civ player gets a lot more than 100 hours out of the game. Civ IV games at Normal speed on Normal sized maps usually took me 8 hours to finish (win or lose). I played a lot more than 12 complete games.

I didn't particularly care for CivIV and I certainly dropped more than 100 hours into it over the last 5 years. Heck I probably did in CivIII as well and I really didn't like that game. I'd say unless you run screaming from your first game you're going to put at least 100 hours into a Civ game.

 

[Sblargh]

Yeah, counting Civ in hours is weird, because little decision to little decision, it really sucks an unreasonable amount of your life, even if you are in one of those games where you are stuck in the middle, not being destroyed, but not relly having a chance at victory.

 

[Spl1nter]

Yeah, counting Civ in hours is weird, because little decision to little decision, it really sucks an unreasonable amount of your life, even if you are in one of those games where you are stuck in the middle, not being destroyed, but not relly having a chance at victory.

hopefully a lot of time isn't lost waiting for turns to finish. Im sure nothing can be bad as Empire Total War but still civ4 later game parts took forever.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Yeah, counting Civ in hours is weird, because little decision to little decision, it really sucks an unreasonable amount of your life, even if you are in one of those games where you are stuck in the middle, not being destroyed, but not relly having a chance at victory.

Which happens the majority of the time when you're still learning the game at a particular difficulty level. And once you master it, you do it all over again at a higher difficulty.

 

[Jibber Hack]

Whelp. I've put about 20 more hours into Civ 4 this week. I'm so ready for 5. Too bad I can't take work off on release. I was really considering it.

 

[Sblargh]

I can't play Civ 4 anymore. :lol
I see a stack and think "this shit is broken".

 

[r1chard]

Does anyone know exactly when it unlocks? I've seen people on here saying Tuesday, but the Steam page says the 24th... if that's correct what time on the 24th would it be? Presumably that's the 24th in some US timezone too, which will mean the 25th for us in UTC+10...

 

[gillty]

Civilization Unlock Times

No matter where you buy your copy of Civilization V, you won't be able to play until the game unlocks in your region. Here are the unlock times that we know of:

North America:
September 21 @ 10am EDT (New York, Toronto, Fake Virginia, Miami)
September 21 @ 9am CDT (Chicago)
September 21 @ 8am MDT (Denver)
September 21 @ 7am PDT (California, Washington)
September 21 @ 11am ADT (Nova Scotia) [fixed: Thanks Canucker]

Worldwide: September 24 @ 00:00 UTC
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil : September 23 @ 21:00
Buenos Aires, Argentina : September 23 @ 21:00
Reykjavik, Iceland : 00:00
London, UK : 00:00
Berlin, Germany : 02:00
Johannesburg, South Africa : 02:00
Jerusalem, Israel : 02:00
Warsaw, Poland : 02:00
Rome, Italy : 02:00
Helsinki, Finland : 03:00
Moscow, Russian Federation : 03:00
Cairo, Egypt : 03:00
Tehran, Iran : 03:30
Mumbai, India : 05:30
Beijing, China : 08:00
Perth, Australia : 08:00
Tokyo, Japan : 09:00
Sydney, Australia : 10:00
For those who ordered through a digital distributor, this is the time when you will be able to activate the game on Steam. The same restriction applied to retail copies, no matter when they are bought or delivered. For more specific descriptions, see the vendor specific sections below.

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86542

 

[Sblargh]

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil : September 23 @ 21:00

If the steam clock is correct, then it is actually 20:00
I would know, I'm obsessed.

 

[platypotamus]

Glad you posted that, I was considering "trying" the game out at midnight, now I know to sleep then to wake up and play in the morning instead.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm just happy it's 10:00 AM EDT and not PDT. I have an interview that day (not till later), which was originally Monday. I'm happy I get to at least play around a little first.

 

[Sblargh]

I'm just happy it's 10:00 AM EDT and not PDT. I have an interview that day (not till later), which was originally Monday. I'm really sad I'll lose that interview.

Fixed.

 

[r1chard]

Thanks Valru. Now to lock this thread away so I can't read the gushing of the lucky US bastards who get to play it three days early...

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Fixed.

Ironically, it's not even for a position that I want (and I have some other potential prospects in play), but hey, money is money!