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[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

The Trump special prosecutor may not be able to prove wrongdoing with the mail server but we definitely have a clear case of political malpractice in this bullshit.

 

[Chococat]

So this whole time...it was Clinton's complacency that lost it?

Yup. It stems from the same complacency that leading to Bernie losing the primary. Liberals are really good a talking, but terrible at acting.

Obama won cause people got out and voted. Neither Bernie nor Hillary won because not enough voted for one personal reason or the other.

It was a zero-sum game of liberal ideals verse conservative ones and people chose the luxury of making about the candidates.

The old stay "controlling democrats is like herding cats" and "Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" have never been truer.

We are the party. We failed ourselves.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Where did all that money go?

this is the funny thing. they outspent on all media and you still hear people say the media didn't do their jobs. when in fact it was overwhelmingly biased in their favor.

this makes it extra funny when someone complains about narratives that they are crooked were wholly made up. they had total domination of the mainstream media. and they still fucked up so badly. lol.

 

[Archaix]

It was Hillary's destiny to be president, unfortunately her believing that didn't make it as true for everybody else as she wanted.

 

[Rentahamster]

After the primaries, I thought that the GOP was a super fragile party that would probably disband in the near future while the Democratic party, despite the conflict Sanders had caused, was still solidly in control of itself and its constituents. I guess I was wrong.

To be fair, you weren't the only one.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008SMV8PI/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Condom]

Even all that bankster money didn't help her win, she and her campaign have been a massive failure

 

[Flo_Evans]

I'm with her!
Stronger together!
Breakdown Barriers!

Meanwhile the other guy is like:

Make America Great Again!
We're going to bring back jobs!
We're going to stop the establishment!
We're self funding this campaign!

These 4 sentences alone probably did it for those turned stated.. All she had to do was go and visit those poor people and listen.

Honestly I think it was in the debates, when he busted out "you've been in Washington for 30 years, why haven't you done anything?!"

 

[IcedTea]

The smugness is really unjustified here, and deeply unneeded.

Hillary's campaign in a nutshell.

 

[Joe]

Clinton did go to PA though and literally every poll indicated it wasn't a battleground. Also, Michael Tracey is an awful, awful person.

He made that tweet back in June first hand. Secondly Obama campaign would have had the fucking numbers. That's what they were fucking good at.

DP's comment seems fool hardy now, and it was probably fool hardy even in June. He wasn't running Hillary's campaign though so I'm not sure what info he was basing that on.

Thanks for the infos

 

[Gigglepoo]

Honestly I think it was in the debates, when he busted out "you've been in Washington for 30 years, why haven't you done anything?!"

That's why I think someone like Biden or Bernie wouldn't have done any better. People wanted change. Trump's campaign wasn't exactly as inspirational as Obama's, but it was a similar idea: The old regime sucked, let me make your lives better.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It was Hillary's destiny to be president, unfortunately her believing that didn't make it as true for everybody else as she wanted.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Same.

Actually watching this now is making me laugh uncontrollably, but in a very, very sad way.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Clinton did go to PA though and literally every poll indicated it wasn't a battleground. Also, Michael Tracey is an awful, awful person.

The only times that I heard about her being around was in Philly, never out in the Suburbs. I think Trump and Pence were both out in the burbs and rural areas.

 

[Adam_Vania]

it's pretty amazing. the Detroit water thing was a HUGE issue. that should have been a slam drunk.

but no, sit at home, watch MSNBC in your hotel, the Trump media circus your donations bought, look at how bad he is, you will win for sure.

 

[Neo C.]

In the end, it was a lose-lose-situation. If Trump won, we would lose (and he won). If Hillary won, we would lose as well, seeing how bad her judgment is, and her needs to be surrounded by yes men.

I mean, she was clearly the better choice, but her flaws were well known.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

To be fair, you weren't the only one.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008SMV8PI/?tag=neogaf0e-20

~100k votes is what stopped us this time around. God damn.

 

[Frustrated_me]

There's also this great bit from Reddit that I read today (and 100% agree with BTW, you had to be blind not to see it):

I was at a hoity toity Ohio Democrats dinner where both Hillary and Bernie were speaking days before the Ohio primary. I was Bernie supporter and was offered a Hillary button as I entered. A biology professor from a highly esteemed college condescendingly dismissed my support for Sanders -- her main focus was ending wars. Her support for Hillary was interesting, to say the least. To her, Sanders supporters were just idealistic young people, Hillary was the qualified, experienced safe choice.

There were cheaper non-dinner seats that were filled with excited and cheering Bernie supporters. Later, a bus load of young Hillary supporters arrived and were being actively coached when to applaud and yell to drown out the Bernie supporters.

Hillary lost because her support was never genuine in the same say that Trump's was, the same way Bernie's was. It wasn't authentic and people could see that. It's getting played out, blaming the DNC. But they picked their candidate early and desperately tried to match the organic support that Trump and Bernie received. That never materialized and in hindsight, it was very apparent.

Does the highlighted text remind anyone of a certain community thread on GAF? I mean, it was happening in real life too.

 

[Smokey_Run]

The only times that I heard about her being around was in Philly, never out in the Suburbs. I think Trump and Pence were both out in the burbs and rural areas.

Trump and Pence were out in Altoona and Johnstown.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

After the primaries, I thought that the GOP was a super fragile party that would probably disband in the near future while the Democratic party, despite the conflict Sanders had caused, was still solidly in control of itself and its constituents. I guess I was wrong.

GOP has been dominating state and local level politics for decades. They got lucky with Bush. But they were never weak as a party. They were even consistently getting republicans elected into governorships for blue states.

They always focused on state houses, local elections, and of course the House and Senate. That hard work paid off because now they have all three. All along with the DNC looking in shambles because they failed to get the glory prize of the presidency. Now they have a very weak local standing nationally.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

They didn't react to losing Wisconsin and Michigan to Bernie and tying with him from Iowa, like not even a little bit.

 

[Charcoal]

I'm with her!
Stronger together!
Breakdown Barriers!

Meanwhile the other guy is like:

Make America Great Again!
We're going to bring back jobs!
We're going to stop the establishment!
We're self funding this campaign!

These 4 sentences alone probably did it for those turned stated.. All she had to do was go and visit those poor people and listen.

Out of everything that has come from this forum during the past 18 months, this post right here is amazing. Well done.

 

[tjohn86]

It seems like the organisation around HRC was quite dysfunctional.

Already 1 year ago Vanity Fair warned that this could cost HRC the election.

HOW HILLARY CLINTON’S LOYAL CONFIDANTS COULD COST HER THE ELECTION

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/10/hillary-clinton-inside-circle-huma-abedin

Quite long and interesting article.

Thanks for this. Fascinating.

 

[tkscz]

Democrats (including me!) often look down on people who don't keep up with social changes. Adapting isn't so easy for many people but we label them as homophobes or racists or whatever else instead of talking and listening. I know I was guilty of that a lot through the years. I hope I learned my lesson and I hope the party did, too.

Not everyone on the other side is deplorable, even if it seems that way sometimes. Most are good people who are slower to adjust to change or simply liked when life was easier. They aren't villains but they're treated as such.

You just explained the reason I stayed out of Hillary threads prior to Tuesday. Holy shit, if you said anything bad about Hillary, you were immediately a Trump supporter, a sexist homophobic racist. You were attacked. There was no grey to HillaryGAF. I still remember the "How can you not like Hillary" thread and refusing to say it was Hubris, her ignorance to rural and rustic america and insulting potential voters instead of trying to convince them that she could help. That she ran her campaign badly. I knew the moment I said that I would've be crucified. Called a Trump supporter and all that. Vilifying needs to stop.

 

[thepotatoman]

How is it that democrats are so good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

 

[Chariot]

Oh they're still acting that way, hop into the community thread and enjoy the nostalgic feeling of undeserved arrogance and being shouted down.

Ugh, I don't even want to look how it looks there. Last time I looked they were shitting all over Bernie's statement to the president-elect.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I knew it.

I fucking knew it.

When I woke up Wednesday morning and saw the electoral map, I knew someone on the Clinton Campaign had fucked up bad. Such disgusting fucking hubis.

Worst part? Bill knew, he had too. Why? Cause he was the son of working class whites. He knows how they think, he knows how to appeal to them. Its how he stomped Bush and Dole in the 90s. He warned his wife's campaign.

And they ignored him.

I voted for her, I supported. But you know what? Fuck Hillary. Pride Before the Fall. Lets hope Midterms turn out well.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

The campaign spent the lion's share of their resources in Florida, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Nevada, and North Carolina and managed to win the two least important of them. No one saw Michigan and Wisconsin coming, no poll predicted it. I don't see how the blame for that can be laid squarely at the campaign's feet.

Because as I've so begrudgingly learned in this election and should have already learned from the 2012 election is that polls mean shit and should not be entirely relied upon. No one may have seen those states coming, but that is why you don't explicitly rely on polls to be reassured. You should expect the unexpected. The Hillary campaign was so heavily funded that they should have thrown resources and time into these states in anticipation of the worst case scenario, regardless of polls, because although they have been reliable in the past, this election was NOT NORMAL and these states are certainly not NY or CA. No states are like NY and CA and until any are as safe blue as they are, you need to make sure that the states you can and expect to win are at least VISITED once during the GE (see: WI).

 

[How About No]

...I don't know how to feel right now

 

[sflufan]

Wisconsin has a GOP governor, voter ID laws, and you lost to Sanders in the primary.

AND SHE DID NOT SET FOOT IN THE STATE. AT ALL.

 

[Chococat]

it's pretty amazing. the Detroit water thing was a HUGE issue. that should have been a slam drunk.

Flint

but no, sit at home, watch MSNBC in your hotel, the Trump media circus your donations bought.

As I pointed out earlier Hilliary, Biden, Obama, and Sanders all blitz Michigan in the final weeks, but not in rural areas. They were still trying to pick up disgruntled Sanders supporters by hitting colleges.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

In the end, it was a lose-lose-situation. If Trump won, we would lose (and he won). If Hillary won, we would lose as well, seeing how bad her judgment is, and her needs to be surrounded by yes men.

I mean, she was clearly the better choice, but her flaws were well known.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree on this. Running a campaign and building up hype doesn't have much correlation with policy making and legislation. Not to mention she has a history of being a very quiet person and preferring to work in private/secret.

It got her into trouble in '93 when she was helping come up with the Hillarycare bill when people thought she was being secretive and suspicious, and it hurt her during her campaign when people took it as her being cold and unemotional, instead of it being a case of he preferring to listen and take notes

 

[Neoweee]

They didn't react to losing Wisconsin and Michigan to Bernie and tying with him from Iowa, like not even a little bit.

Michigan was essentially a tie, and Iowa probably would have been lost regardless. Wisconsin is inexcusable, though.

 

[qcf x2]

If anybody bothered to read the wikileaks, they would know that this kind of stupid BS was almost all the campaign talked about

1. That's what the Russians want you to think. 2. It's okay, I can explain the link in the OP. 3. A week from now, nobody will still be talking about this. Non-news.

Democrats (including me!) often look down on people who don't keep up with social changes. Adapting isn't so easy for many people but we label them as homophobes or racists or whatever else instead of talking and listening. I know I was guilty of that a lot through the years. I hope I learned my lesson and I hope the party did, too.

Not everyone on the other side is deplorable, even if it seems that way sometimes. Most are good people who are slower to adjust to change or simply liked when life was easier. They aren't villains but they're treated as such.

Good on you, hopefully more people grow as human beings as a result of this.

 

[MogCakes]

There's also this great bit from Reddit that I read today

Yikes, that is telling.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Lets hope Midterms turn out well.

I'm not confident about that happening. I think Trump will do a lot of what he said he would do. As long as his health care replacement isn't a disaster, he might keep this super duper majority for all four years.

Good on you, hopefully more people grow as human beings as a result of this.

It's so ironic that I went from thinking everyone else had to change to realizing that I had to do some growing up as well. I guess that happens when you live (both online and offline) in a progressive bubble.

 

[Vanillalite]

Thanks for the infos

The bigger question to ask if why is David Plouffe a guy who helped run arguably one of the largest most successful campaigns on Earth not actually part of Hillary's campaign.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Worst part? Bill knew, he had too. Why? Cause he was the son of working class whites. He knows how they think, he knows how to appeal to them. Its how he stomped Bush and Dole in the 90s. He warned his wife's campaign.

He did an interview on a late night show a couple of weeks after the DNC talking about Trump's supporters. He basically said that he knew what they were going through. He actually talked about them rather passionately. I'm kinda surprised he didn't have more of a voice in the campaign. He was often bused around to areas completely unnoticed by anyone.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

So this whole time...it was Clinton's complacency that lost it?

of course it was. what did she do late august/most of september when trump was traveling all of the country and doing last minute spontaneous trips to Mexico? I have no idea and most people dont either.

Trump was out nonstop working.


Trump ran to win. Clinton ran not to lose.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Lets hope Midterms turn out well.

First, Democrats have to realize midterm elections even exist. So I have my doubts.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

I knew it.

I fucking knew it.

When I woke up Wednesday morning and saw the electoral map, I knew someone on the Clinton Campaign had fucked up bad. Such disgusting fucking hubis.

Worst part? Bill knew, he had too. Why? Cause he was the son of working class whites. He knows how they think, he knows how to appeal to them. Its how he stomped Bush and Dole in the 90s. He warned his wife's campaign.

And they ignored him.

I voted for her, I supported. But you know what? Fuck Hillary. Pride Before the Fall. Lets hope Midterms turn out well.

Kind of interesting... even though the campaign didn't stop at our suburban PA college town, a bunch of people in the area were posting selfies they took with Bill when he stopped for lunch.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Because as I've so begrudgingly learned in this election and should have already learned from the 2012 election is that polls mean shit and should not be entirely relied upon. No one may have seen those states coming, but that is why you don't explicitly rely on polls to be reassured. You expect the unexpected and with a campaign such as Hillary's that had so much money, you allocate funds, resources and time to these states in anticipation that they may not be going your way, regardless of what the polls may be saying, because although they have been reliable in the past, this election was NOT NORMAL and these states are certainly not NY or CA. No states are like NY and CA and until any are as safe blue as they are, you need to make sure that the states you can and expect to win are at least VISITED once during the GE (see: WI).

You realize catchy phrases don't easily translate into actionable decisions, right? You can easily say "expect the unexpected", but when you have limited time and have to put your focus into certain areas and demos, it doesn't help figure out what to do. Polls are suppose to be reliable and data driven, and if you can't rely on them, and can only go based on intuition then...well, it becomes difficult to know what works. Let's say you have a feeling you're not putting enough focus on one state and go after that. How do you validate if your approach is working if you can't trust polling data?

 

[Torokil]

In a weird twist I think I hate the Clintons almost as much as all my conservative relatives now

Bill took a sledgehammer to welfare in the 90s and continued the War On Drugs and Hillary just fucking handed the country over to the GOP and lost to FUCKING TRUMP

 

[elrechazado]

He did an interview on a late night show a couple of weeks after the DNC talking about Trump's supporters. He basically said that he knew what they were going through. He actually talked about them rather passionately. I'm kinda surprised he didn't have more of a voice in the campaign. He was often bused around to areas completely unnoticed by anyone.

The leaked speech he gave about rural whites and.the need for dems to address them was also spot on in this vein. Bill was out there preaching but the dnc didn't care. Reap what you sow.

 

[ZOONAMI]

90% of their efforts should have been in Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

Abandoning Wisconsin completely after the convention is mind boggling.

 

[Kinyou]

This really surprises me. Given the experience of the people who lead the campaign I imagined it to run like a well oiled machine.

No, worse. Clinton ran in firm belief that she already won.

Look at this: https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/791263939015376902

Look at it!

Yikes

 

[Chariot]

Trump ran to win. Clinton ran not to lose.

No, worse. Clinton ran in firm belief that she already won.

Look at this: https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/791263939015376902

Look at it!

 

[Donthizz#]

i'm angry

 

[MogCakes]

He did an interview on a late night show a couple of weeks after the DNC talking about Trump's supporters. He basically said that he knew what they were going through. He actually talked about them rather passionately. I'm kinda surprised he didn't have more of a voice in the campaign. He was often bused around to areas completely unnoticed by anyone.

Hillary didn't allow Bill much of a voice during the election. Maybe it was her hubris, or a determination to not be seen as his shadow. I wonder what the state of their relationship is.

 

[Barry Burton]

Time/money wasted on states like GA, SC, and Arizona, which were all pipe dreams anyway, could have been spent on MI, WI, PA, and FL where it could have made all the difference.

This is likely oversimplifying, but it seems like the pursuit of a landslide win rather than shoring up the close/winnable states may have cost them the election.

I agree with all of this. This was an election that the Democrats absolutely could not afford to lose. All of the blue states had to remain solidly blue.

 

[wildfire]

No, we create a thread calling them racists and we don't coddle racists so fuck em. Thats how PoliGAF rolls.

Exactly and anyone who suggests to consider that there are poor white folk will be shouted down with strawman arguments that you can't separate the racism and sexism so they should vote for Hillary. In the rabid responses of Crossing Eden and Commendie (or however you spell it) there is no common ground to be found with poor whites that is worth trying to leverage.

I agree that such people have a poor grasp of white privilege but gaffers like these 2 forget that suggesting how people should vote doesn't mean that their vote is locked in one way or the other. These types of liberals take for granted who also voted for Obama.